• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Rifle Scopes Some observations, NF vs. SS

R

rifleman0321

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 10, 2004
192
0
midwest/USA
I recently picked up a NF 2.5-10x24 for my LMT MWS, thinking it would be a top choice for an all-around scope on that rifle.

I already had a SWFA SS 3-9x42 on a FN FAL, and it is a very good scope, as well.

Between the two, I see very little if any difference in glass quality. This is of course the uneducated opinion of a simple country boy used to Leupold being the "top of the line".

The SS has a better field of view at the same power as the NF. Not surprising, given the almost double size of the objective.

The reticle in the SS is a better reticle when both scopes are used without illumination, but the illumination feature of the NF is invaluable for low light operation. However, if I can't get batteries, give me the SS.

Both scopes are very stout, but I would give the edge to the NF based purely on visual observation and handling.

My opinion so far is that if you need illumination, the SS is a no go, but if you don't, it is one hard scope to beat, especially for the price. This opinion is subject to change with more use, as I have not had either scope for long, and deer hunting has been keeping me busy(4x Leupy on a pre-war model 70 in '06). Will get to the range and work both scopes out more as the winter progresses. It should prove interesting. I know this is an apples vs. oranges comparison, but these are the scopes I have, and I figured the info might help somebody trying to pick out a scope.
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

Thanks for the perspective. I have an FN SPR that i need to scope and really cant afford another US Optics. So reviews on anything else are helpful.
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

Having used both scopes, there is definitely an improvement in quality of glass with the Nightforce. If you can afford the Nightforce go for it. If you are on a budget then the SS is a good scope for the money.
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: broke_again</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Having used both scopes, there is definitely an improvement in quality of glass with the Nightforce. If you can afford the Nightforce go for it. If you are on a budget then the SS is a good scope for the money. </div></div>

Which NF did you compare to the SS 3-9x42? Was this a side by side comparison?

I am curious because this is the first time I've heard someone say that there is a definite improvement in quality of glass with a NF compared to the new 3-9x42.
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

Which reticle was in the NF thats not as good the SS,
because I think you can get the NP-1,NP-R2,FC-2,Mil Dot and Velocity LV MV HV, was it just a personal choice or could you see it better, I can see both the FC-2 and Velocity reticles at night without the ill. if looking across a field with a moon, in the woods you need the illumination
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SWFA</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: broke_again</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Having used both scopes, there is definitely an improvement in quality of glass with the Nightforce. If you can afford the Nightforce go for it. If you are on a budget then the SS is a good scope for the money. </div></div>

Which NF did you compare to the SS 3-9x42? Was this a side by side comparison?

I am curious because this is the first time I've heard someone say that there is a definite improvement in quality of glass with a NF compared to the new 3-9x42.
</div></div>

It was a comparison between my 10x42M and my Nightforce. I have to admit that I did not consider the 3x9 when buying a new scope, not enough magnification.
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

Qoute "The reticule in the SS is a better reticule when both scopes are used without illumination, but the illumination feature of the NF is invaluable for low light operation. However, if I can't get batteries, give me the SS."

I was testing low light conditions with an ACOG 3X and a SS 3-9 this past summer at my cabin. I was looking at a meadow very early in the morning, well before legal hunting hours. I happen to spot some movement while looking through the ACOG and saw a doe and a fawn. I noticed that I could take a shot if needed with the amber illuminated cross hairs in the ACOG. I switched to the 3-9 Super Sniper and found that I was looking at a Cow and Calf Elk. I also noticed that I could still take the shot if needed because at 3X the thick part of the SS cross hair "grows" toward the center of the scope and while the mildot all but disappeared I could still center on the chest of the Elk. Lesson learned? (A) Illuminated reticules allow you to make shots before you can identify your target. (B)The excellent FFP design of the Super Sniper has benefits in Low Light that I had not considered.
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

Comparing an ACOG to a SS is kind of comparing apples and oranges. The ACOG is not meant to be a hunting scope. The optics in an ACOG are average or maybe just above average in terms of clarity and resolution. Where the ACOG shines is in terms of its robust build and unique system of illumination. As a package, it is better than the Super Sniper for what it is designed for.

As far as comparing the Nightforce 2.5-10X24 to the SS, again, apples and oranges. You can't make a sweeping comment saying that the reticle in the SS is better than that of the Nightforce. Nightforce offers a selection of reticles. Of course, I won't argue that the reticle in the in the SS isn't more suited to the OP's needs than the reticle that he has in his Nightforce, but I will say that the Nightforce mildot reticle is much better than the mildot reticle in the SS. You also have to look at the overall package. The Nightforce is a much more compact package and will excel in a role wherein a compact package is needed. On the otherhand, there is a reason that Nightforce discontinued the 2.5-10X24 in favor of the 2.5-10X32 model.

If you make an apples to apples comparison between the 3-9X SS and the 2.5-10X Nightforce, both with mildot reticles, then you'll see what the differences are. For me, the most notable difference was the lack of distortion in favor of the Nightforce.

I don't think that anyone would argue that the Nightforce line of scopes has the best glass, but as a package, it's hard to beat at that price point, just as the Super Sniper is a solid package at its price point and is hard to beat; but to say that a SS is just as good as a Nightforce, I feel, is rediculous.
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1kz45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Which reticle was in the NF thats not as good the SS,
because I think you can get the NP-1,NP-R2,FC-2,Mil Dot and Velocity LV MV HV, was it just a personal choice or could you see it better, I can see both the FC-2 and Velocity reticles at night without the ill. if looking across a field with a moon, in the woods you need the illumination </div></div>

I have the NP-R2 reticle in the NF, and it is a very fine reticle, perfect for precision shooting. But I find that for me, when not illuminated, it tends to get lost easily in wooded or other "cluttered" environments, even in daylight. With the illumination in use, it's great.

The SS 3-9x42 uses a FFP mildot reticle whose outer bars grow toward the center at low power, aiding low light pickup, and the mildot center at nine power, while not easy to lose, is by no means too coarse for field or normal range use.

As far as glass quality, I am not a guy who spends all his life looking through scopes, nor did I use any special charts or gadgets in my comparison of the scopes. What I did do was look through both scopes at the same power, at the same objects, in varying light conditions. I could not, for any practical purpose I might put either scope to, see any real difference in the detail or clarity between scopes. I did notice a difference in low light, but attribute the SS's win in that condition to its larger objective, not to better glass quality.
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

I took an SS 3-9X out to the range and compared it to my NF 2.5-10X32. I thought the glass was pretty similar and for far less than half the price the SS stacked up nicely. I don't need FFP on a scope that only goes up to 10X but it is a nice feature. The NF has better turrets and zero-stop, is more compact, etc. But again, that comes at a price (2.5X the SS 3-9). Both scopes tracked great.

I do wish SWFA would come out with a 3-12 or even a 4-12 if they had to stick with the 3X erector. I read rumors of a 5-25 being introduced but that is just too high a mag range. A 3-15 would be awesome.
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

Great thread. Thanks guys, you are making me feel better about my SS3x9 purchase. I was in the same boat NF or SS..... In the end, didn't "need" illumination. My AR will have a SS mounted next week.
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

Maybe so, but IF the PST's turn out to be what they are touted to be, I can buy one of them and have 2 scopes for less than what the NF costs.
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jolly roger</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Between the two, I see very little if any difference in glass quality. This is of course the uneducated opinion of a simple country boy used to Leupold being the "top of the line". </div></div>

There is no comparison, I don't own a Nightforce but I've looked through a few, and I've seen a SS on the range and looked through it while the guy told me how great it was and how he never heard of US Optics and that my 10 power USO couldn't complete with his 16 power Super Sniper. I thanked him for his time and wen't back to shooting the piss out of my ST-10.

The best trick for judging optical quality is not to look at noon on a sunny say but in fog, low light conditions, and look at things like clarity and contrast levels through dense brush, and on the edges of your glass. This is where the money on glass shows, also remember that the fine reticle on the Nightforce may not be as visible at low light because it doesn't need to be, it can be illuminated. I personally like very heavy reticles on my hunting scopes for use in low light without the need for batteries.
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

As stated in my post, I compared the scopes side by side in VARYING light conditions, which include low light and in the woods, and also looked at the edges of the field of view with an eye to fine detail. I have yet to see 5 or 6 hundred dollars' worth of difference. The SS reticle is better <span style="text-decoration: underline">to me </span> because the reticle is not as fine and thus not dependent on illumination in less than perfect conditions. I have also owned an ST-10 in the past, and it was a great scope. I am not saying "every scope but the SS is crap", here. I was simply stating my observations of two scopes, with the caveat that they were kind of apples and oranges. And for the record, I will put my SS against your ST-10 and hit the same target you do under the same conditions, all else being equal. Both scopes will do, if the shooter will.
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aggiesig</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've seen a SS on the range and looked through it while the guy told me how great it was...his 16 power Super Sniper. </div></div>
You do realize you're talking about a completely different scope than the OP is, right?
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

I had the opportunity once to use a SS and a nightforce side by side. Two different ranges of scopes. The SS was a straight 16X and the NF was adjustable to god only knows (big). All and all clarity was pretty good with either. I suppose I'd lean towards the NF. I thought the clarity was similar (daytime-sunny), but I liked the rest of it better. I have never had the opportunity to look at a S&B or a USO. I guess no one around here has that sort of budget. I'm told they are even better. I guess when I finally have the coin to buy one, it will be a treat, because these two brands aren't bad at all.
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

The SS 3-9X has better glass than the other models, except of course the 10X HD.
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

There is no comparison if you compare the wrong scopes. The 3-9 and 10HD SS line are completely different scopes than the 16x you mentioned. They have different glass and internals and are made in a completely different factory.
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

I find the glass and Mildot of the 10x SuperSniper to work perfectly with each other. As long as it is not super low light, you can get the cross hairs to line up.

The NF NP-R1 reticle on the other hand, you have to turn on the illumination if it is a little dark.

I live by a Hill with houses on them, and I frequently use my optics (rifle scopes, spotting scopes, and binos) to look at these houses in all type of conditions. Under moon light, at dusk, in the fog on bright Sunny Days, etc, and to me the SuperSniper is more than capable of seeing objects.

I did my own comparison of NF vs. Leupold vs. SuperSniper and it kind of pissed some people off because I found them all near equal.

-------------------

I recommend the juice drinkers do not read my review below:

------------------------
I have tested 3 scopes side by side
1) NightFoce NXS 3.5-15x50, ill, $1700
2) Leupold Mark 4 3.5-10x40, ill, $1100
3) SWFA SuperSniper 10x42, $300


Clarity -
All are so very close I am going to declare no difference. Don't think this is just a looking at a human silhouette at 100 yards on a bright sunny day testing either. My test was a lot more extensive. I tested in low light conditions (dusk and under street lamps). also viewed objects with low contrast to see if I could tell a difference. If I had to split hairs then I will declare the NF the winner, but it is only slightly brighter than the Leupold and Leupold only slightly brighter than the SS. Again I am splitting hairs here. The SS under street lamps was hard to use because it does not have an illuminated reticle, but it's glass quality was really indistinguishable from the others.

Turrets -
My NF are nice, fast turrets and zero stop. The clicks are also very positive. The SS are not bad and also positive, but no zero stop option. The Leupold is slightly spongier than the SS, but still very doable. The SS not having a side focus made it a little tougher to focus, but not impossible and something you can easily get use to.

Reticles -
My NF has an MOA reticle with matching MOA knobs so it wins easily. Leupold has he TMR reticle, which I like a lot and actually prefer over the NF NPR reticle. However, the TMR is a Mil reticle and not MOA. My SS has a plain mildot reticle, not spectacular, but it works. What really sucks about both the SS and Leupold is that the math for them is a lot harder because of the MOA knobs with Mil reticle. Once you memorize a table though, it's not so bad and really no calculations needed. Tracking for all the scopes seems equal, that is 1 MOA adjustment is very close to 1 MOA.

Bottom Line -
I know it's not fair comparing expensive scopes with inexpensive scopes, variable mag to non-variable, 10x to 15x, illuminated reticle to non-illuminated. We all know who is going to win this comparison. However, I do think a comparison is needed to see how much you are getting for the buck. The NF though the nicest, will not make you a better shooter. The Leupold is a nice scope too, but it is way over price for something that does not have matching reticle with matching knobs. If you take away the features and the extras and just gauge on glass quality and tracking ability, I will say all are EQUAL.

Sorry to offend all the juice drinkers.
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh and I also compared Apples to Oranges here: Comparing Apples to Oranges </div></div>
that was funny, thanks
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you take away the features and the extras and just gauge on glass quality and tracking ability, I will say all are EQUAL.</div></div>I will agree that the SS 3-9X42 has comparable glass (and it is better than the 10X you mention in your review) and all the SS scopes I know of track great. However, the quality of its construction and engineering where subtly but noticeably less than a NF 2.5-10X32. If you can't afford to pay that much and are comfortable with the magnification range, it's a great value. I wouldn't, however, trade the features of the NF 2.5-10X32 for anything I can think of that costs less. In the end, those features add up to an appreciable advantage.

And I respectfully disagree that the NF won't make you a better shooter. Maybe using a fixed 10X will force you to become one, but for most people, having any decent variable will give them a better chance at close range, whether it is a NF, SS 3-9X or similar.
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

This is an interesting thread. Lots of common sense being exhibited. I would like to point out one thing. I often read that the Super Snipers are great scopes "in their price range". Yes there is nothing in their price range that can touch them. There are seldom mentioned reasons for that. One is that you have extremely knowledgeable people that know the market and optics designing them. They also know the manufactures and where their products can be made to their specification at a fair price. They then bring them to the market directly. There is no distributor, wholesaler, retailer chain of markups on these scopes. Compare SWFAs overheads to the overhead you are paying on a Leupold for example. The end result is you get more for your money.

To me shooting is about function. I demand optical clarity, precise adjustments and durability that will allow me to preform my functional objective. The Super Sniper line allows me to do that at a bargain price. The SS Scopes are not just great scopes at their price point, they are great scopes at a bargain price. The 3-9X and the yet to be released 1-4X were specifically designed with military applications in mind that is DMR and SPR functions. They were specifically designed to be better than "good enough" to perform the function and provide robust service at a price that will get them where they are needed. I own three SS products. My first was purchase about eight years ago for a Remington PSS. I was thinking 10X fixed power Mark 4 like the big boys have. But I had heard good things about the SS 10X so I decided to give it a try. I thought if it does not work out I'll go for the Leupold. The 10X SS is still setting on that PSS. Last year I got interested in the DM concept and bought a M1A NM and put a 3-9 Super Sniper on it. Next came a LMT MWS and no question what I would put on it; a second 3-9 SS was ordered. I'm convinced that for a DM application you have to spend about twice the price of the SS to get anything that compares to the SS. I'm not a wealthy guy but I can afford what I want where my hobby is concerned and I'm not going to spend thousands on rifles and short change my shooting experience where optics are concerned. I'm looking forward to the SS 1-4. I'm also thinking about a bolt rifle with longer legs than 7.62. For it I'm thinking 3-16X or that neighborhood. I'm looking at Premier or S&B. But if SS has something in that range when I need it I will not think twice about ordering it.
To each his own. There are lots of great optics out there. I'm too old to be a fan boy but ya, I have a high regard for the SS and the people who bring them to market.
[img

Uploaded with ImageShack.usimg]
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

Here is one picture of my NightForce, Leupold Mark 4, and Super Sniper together.
308Family-vi.jpg
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS


I just took the plunge on the SS 3-9x42. With the added 10% Hide discount it is too good to pass up. My plan is to put it on the 6.5 Grendel from the group buy.
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Snow Dog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I just took the plunge on the SS 3-9x42. With the added 10% Hide discount it is too good to pass up. My plan is to put it on the 6.5 Grendel from the group buy. </div></div>

Great choice. I may be a bit of a zealot on the subject but in my opinion if you don't have a SS 3-9 on your DM or SPR you either paid too much or you don't have enough scope.
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is one picture of my NightForce, Leupold Mark 4, and Super Sniper together.
308Family-vi.jpg
</div></div>

Very nice rigs. What is the mount on the SS?
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1kz45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like the one on the end </div></div>

Yes, I believe you are right. I should have phrased my question better. It is the scope mount I am curious about.
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Prairie Dog Dundee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Very nice rigs. What is the mount on the SS? </div></div>

Thank You, it's a ADM Recon-X mounted backwards.
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

I'll throw my .02 in.

I have a SS 3x9 on my .308 gas gun. It has done everything I have asked of it well out to 650 yards no problem. At the price point it is the best value in my opinion. It has been run hard thorugh training and has never had a problem tracking or returning to zero.

That being said, I have compared it recently at a PR course to a NF 3.5-15x50 and Leupolds latest CQBSS. I also have a S&B short dot that is my reference point for glass perfection. The NF has better glass than the SS, no doubt. The CQBSS glass was ok, marginally better than the SS. Lastly the S&B has the best glass. Obviously this is small sample of different types of scopes, but in my opinion the glass runs from best to "least best" (they are all pretty good and useable) S&B, NF, Leupy, SS.

I was originally thinking of getting a NF 3.5-15 once I had tested/dialled in my .308 to replace the SS. Now I think I'm going to wait for the CQBSS or maybe the S&B 1-8.
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Snow Dog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I just took the plunge on the SS 3-9x42. With the added 10% Hide discount it is too good to pass up. My plan is to put it on the 6.5 Grendel from the group buy.</div></div>

Wait! what 10% discount???/
 
Re: Some observations, NF vs. SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bowhuntr09</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Snow Dog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I just took the plunge on the SS 3-9x42. With the added 10% Hide discount it is too good to pass up. My plan is to put it on the 6.5 Grendel from the group buy.</div></div>

Wait! what 10% discount???/ </div></div>
SWFA has had an ad on this Board for months giving a 10%discount on the 3-9 and 10 HD to Hide members. The Code is SSHIDE I think it is still in effect.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

hafejd30
ZCO527 vs NF ATACR 7-35 vs Arken EP5- (Last Light Comparison)
Replies
25
Views
3K
M8541Reaper
M8541Reaper
D
3-18 scope recommendations
Replies
72
Views
5K
db2000
db2000
B
Swampfox Kentucky Long 2-12x44 review
Replies
2
Views
1K
TangoRomeo7688
TangoRomeo7688
rpg777
SOLD SWFA SS 1-4 Illuminated LPVO
Replies
4
Views
203
rpg777
rpg777
2112Rush
Steiner T6Xi 5-30x56 arrives...
Replies
2
Views
937
2112Rush
2112Rush
Top Bottom
Back