Somebody, please help.

[GoatLD259]

So I have been attempting to set up my reloading press for reloading 40 S&W.

My setup as is:

RCBS Pro 2000

Station 1: Size and De-prime die
Station 2: Powder measure with expander flare/bell. I have this set to flare/bell to .030" above bullet diameter. So .43 after this station.
Station 3: Lock out die (Not set up yet)
Station 4: Bullet feeder (Not set up yet)
Station 5: Crimp/ Seat die

The problem I am having comes with my last station (Station 5). The instructions for the die say to put a sized case in shell holder, raise the ram, then screw the die down until you feel a slight resistance, then turn away from case mouth a full turn. Ok. I do this. Then it says to lower the seating plug until you get desired COAL. However, the seating plug is already as low as I can go, and I am no where near the COAL that I want. What am I doing wrong?

I have been trying new things to get it to work, but no luck. I have even tried not flare/bell the case using the same method, but no luck, as explained here:
The next steps say that when you receive the desired COAL unscrew the seat plug to avoid bullet contact when adjusting seater die body. Screw the seater die body down until you feel firm resistance. However, when I get to this step, there is already firm resistance.

I am using 180 grain blue bullets, and on the website it says the perfect amount of crimp and expansion none of the coating will come off. Well, the coating is coming off.

Pistol Powder Expanders-Pro 2000 Let Reloaders Move Powder | RCBS

When used with the Case Activated Uniflow Powder Measure, expanders let reloaders move expansion and powder drops to station two on a press.

www.rcbs.com

3 Die Carbide Popular Pistol Die Set | RCBS

This RCBS 3 die set for pistols includes a carbide sizer die sizes and de-primes the case, an expander die to expand the case, and taper crimp seater die.

www.rcbs.com

Anything?

Thank you very much.

Goat

 

[Halfnutz]

Not familiar with your particular set up.
But, is the seater plug reversible for different profile bullets?

 

[n2ishun]

I think "slight resistance" is the problem here.
Obviously the seater plug needs to be lower.....now how do you want to go about that ?

 

[Halfnutz]

Also, you want a flare.

 

[GoatLD259]

I think "slight resistance" is the problem here.
Obviously the seater plug needs to be lower.....now how do you want to go about that ?

If you have any ideas, please share. I screw the die down to until I feel resistance then screw one full turn in reverse as per the instructions. When doing it this way, the seater plug can be in all the way and I won't get the COAL I am trying to achieve.

 

[GoatLD259]

Also, you want a flare.

I am flaring it. .030 above bullet diameter.

 

[GoatLD259]

Not familiar with your particular set up.
But, is the seater plug reversible for different profile bullets?

It is not no, I was sent one seater plug with my set.

 

[J.J.chago]

The old Pro 2000, I spent many hours damning mine to hell. But when it is going good you can really crank them out.

 

[Steel head]

As for crimp
I only run enough to undue the flare.

Run an empty case up the seater Flare die to see what it’s really doing.
If you have a lot of flare you’ll feel resistance quite early.

I generally seat and crimp in separate operations whenever possible.

 

[918v]

With the seater die body backed off, first seat the bullet to your desired coal, then back off the seater stem and screw the die down until you feel slight resistance. Then you screw the seater stem to touch the bullet. It is far better to do this in 2 steps, with a dedicated seater die and a separate crimp die. RCBS dies have two seater stems. Use the correct one for your bullet.

With the expander die, adjust the expander to flare the case mouth enough so it doesn’t scrape the bullet.

 

[GoatLD259]

As for crimp
I only run enough to undue the flare.

Run an empty case up the seater Flare die to see what it’s really doing.
If you have a lot of flare you’ll feel resistance quite early.

I generally seat and crimp in separate operations whenever possible.

I am flaring out to .030" above bullet diameter. So after this step, case mouth should be at .43.

 

[greentick]

Just taking out the flare with the crimp function is critical with plated projos. I like the Lee FCD for crimping but I've found better accuracy leaving plated uncrimped.

 

[Steel head]

I am flaring it. .030 above bullet diameter.

That’s a lot.
Just flare energy that bullets aren’t scraping

 

[918v]

Chamfering the case mouth in addition to flaring helps to prevent bullet scraping with these coated bullets.

 

[rmfield]

There are 2 possibilities that I see. Either the die is not screwed down far enough or the seater stem is too short. So....

Maybe the resistance you are feeling before you back the the die off one turn is not the actual resistance of the case mouth, but some other friction in the system. With the ram up, I would turn the die in until you get firm resistance against the case mouth and then back off one turn.

If the seater stem is too short, then you just need a longer one. Maybe they put the wrong one in your die set.

Good luck.

 

[n2ishun]

There are 2 possibilities that I see. Either the die is not screwed down far enough or the seater stem is too short. So....

Maybe the resistance you are feeling before you back the the die off one turn is not the actual resistance of the case mouth, but some other friction in the system. With the ram up, I would turn the die in until you get firm resistance against the case mouth and then back off one turn.

If the seater stem is too short, then you just need a longer one. Maybe they put the wrong one in your die set.

Good luck.

That's what I was trying to convey.
I'm just a stubborn old bastard that likes to help someone see the way to go instead of telling them outright.
It's a better way to learn if you make the person look closer at the problem and figure it out on their own.

 

[Milo 2.5]

The Pro 2000 really has never gotten any love. If it were me, being it is hand operated and not on a drive, I'd eliminate the lockout die, seat in station 4 and crimp separately in hole 5.
Also, your die set should have came with 2 seater stems, one for flat points, one for hollow points, make sure you have the right one.
Most people don't put a number to the flare, if you have excessive flare, you most likely are feeling premature resistance and your seat die is not close to being set right.

 

[GoatLD259]

I have my seat and crimp die set up so that the loaded cartridge fits on my case gauge and falls out freely. However, I am scraping the bullet.

I have tried giving more flare but is not helping. Still scraping.

 

[smoothy8500]

Use your barrel as the gauge to confirm, and only crimp enough to straighten the flare. Case gauge may be too tight compared to your chamber, causing excess crimp. Unfortunately plated/coated bullets really need a separate crimp station.

 

[GoatLD259]

The Pro 2000 really has never gotten any love. If it were me, being it is hand operated and not on a drive, I'd eliminate the lockout die, seat in station 4 and crimp separately in hole 5.
Also, your die set should have came with 2 seater stems, one for flat points, one for hollow points, make sure you have the right one.
Most people don't put a number to the flare, if you have excessive flare, you most likely are feeling premature resistance and your seat die is not close to being set right.

So then how much flare should I start out at?

 

[GoatLD259]

Should I try this stem out for the Blue Bullets 180 Round Nose Flat point?

Alternate Seater Plugs - 1/2" -20 | RCBS

Alternate Seater Plugs for various types, calibers, and grain weight/shot size to be used with RCBS reloading dies.

www.rcbs.com

 

[MarshallDodge]

Raise the seater plug. Take a factory loaded round and put it in the station, raise the ram, then screw the die down as hard as you can by hand. Then lower the plug.

 

[smoothy8500]

(Quote) Still scraping


That's because the crimp is applied while the bullet is still being pushed into the case for the last .010"

 

[GoatLD259]

(Quote) Still scraping


That's because the crimp is applied while the bullet is still being pushed into the case for the last .010"

Blue bullets website says that the right amount of crimp will not scrape at all. However, I'm in a spot where if I take any crimp off, it will not fit my case gauge.

 

[smoothy8500]

I'm in a spot where if I take any crimp off, it will not fit my case gauge.

And does it drop into/ out of the barrel? Ignore the case gauge. If not, then you need to crimp separate.

 

[whatsupdoc]

Take the seater stem out of the die.
Screw die into press only two turns.
Put a factory round in the shellholder.
Raise the ram all the way up.
Screw die down until it stops, back off 1/4 turn.
Screw seater stem until it makes contact with bullet.

This should get you close.

 

[MarshallDodge]

I'm confused. Are you seating and crimping separately? In two different stations?

 

[Milo 2.5]

So then how much flare should I start out at?

I said you may be over flaring, post a pic. Everyone of us could fix your problem if we were right there. I just said, never heard actual flare measurements before.

 

[GoatLD259]

So I’ve got to a crimp that can fit into my barrel, but not the case gauge.

 

[GoatLD259]

I'm confused. Are you seating and crimping separately? In two different stations?

Same station.

 

[Milo 2.5]

So I’ve got to a crimp that can fit into my barrel, but not the case gauge.

I'd back off the flare some, it may chamber, but you now need an excessive crimp to fit in a gauge. Too much crimp raises pressures.
I have never loaded 40 cal, but I started out going full retard on flares too, just barely enough flare to barely support a bullet, once in the die, the bullet cannot get cocked sideways.

 

[GoatLD259]

So, I’ll get clean ones with no scrapes at all. Then I’ll do more just to verify, and I get scrapes like these. Also, I’ve got it so the cartridge will fit and fall out of my barrel freely, but not fit the case gauge. I’m loading them out to 1.128 currently. I figure I would start there.

Any of you know why the scrapes are like that and not doing it every time?

 

[GoatLD259]

Is a mark like this terrible?

 

[GoatLD259]

Why would I get marks like this on the bottom

 

[MarshallDodge]

Same station.

Then there isn't a way to eliminate the issue that you are having without going to jacketed bullets.

You have to seat first and then crimp on the next stage.

 

[MarshallDodge]

Is a mark like this terrible?

No. That should be fine.

 

[J.J.chago]

Then there isn't a way to eliminate the issue that you are having without going to jacketed bullets.

You have to seat first and then crimp on the next stage.

Yep. Had the same problems with my pc bullets.

 

[GoatLD259]

Then there isn't a way to eliminate the issue that you are having without going to jacketed bullets.

You have to seat first and then crimp on the next stage.

Thank you for the replay. So using coated bullets, I’m not going to eliminate the scraping, unless I seat and crimp in two different stations? Should I eliminate the lockout die so I can have a bullet feeder?

Should I just go buy a Dillon? Lol

 

[GoatLD259]

Why am I getting those scrapes on the bottom though?

 

[GoatLD259]

Why am I getting those scrapes on the bottom though? Could it be from when I am hammering out the bullet with the RCBS bullet puller?

 

[Hawk in WY]

So I’ve got to a crimp that can fit into my barrel, but not the case gauge.

It's called the plonk test for a reason. The loaded round should drop into the barrel (out of the gun) with a plonk and fall out when you turn the barrel muzzle up. Excessive flare will fail this test. A bullet loaded too long will as well. Check your overall length.

Don't worry about it not fitting the case gauge unless you're planning on firing the round out of the case gauge, not the barrel.

I second the separate seating and flare removal steps. I do not call it crimping since coated bullets should not be crimped.

Good luck.

 

[MarshallDodge]

Getting a Dillon is always the right answer

I assume that when you say lockout die, you mean powder lockout die.

Having powder in the case before seating a bullet is very important. Squibs can ruin a gun if not caught. That said, I've never had a lockout die in my presses in 30 years of reloading. I have made a few squibs that were because I wasn't paying attention but it has been many years since I made the mistake. Changing the way I did a few things and making absolutely certain that I have powder in the case before I seat a bullet has basically eliminated the issue.

The lockout die would be even more critical if you added a bullet feeder because you wouldn't be in control of the bullet.

I'm not going to say you should eliminate the lockout but if you need that station then it is what it is.

 

[smoothy8500]

Any of you know why the scrapes are like that and not doing it every time?

For years now I'm using coated bullets and seat/crimp on the same die, using an old School RCBS piggyback (grandpa of the Pro2000). Flare just enough to start the projectile base in the mouth. Crimp just enough to pass the plonk test. Sometimes if the projectiles don't sit perfectly straight as the go up into the seating die they may shave a little coating material.

 

[GoatLD259]

Thank you all for the responses. You guys were great help. I have it at a point where the cartridge fits in my barrel but not the case gauge. I have also got rid of the scraping of the coating as well. Thank you. Literally, it took a while but I think I got it. I may go buy a Dillon 750. My good friend has one and does not use a powder check anymore because of how accurate it is. He instead uses a mirror that he has hooked up to look inside the case as he is reloading.

Goat

 

[GoatLD259]

For years now I'm using coated bullets and seat/crimp on the same die, using an old School RCBS piggyback (grandpa of the Pro2000). Flare just enough to start the projectile base in the mouth. Crimp just enough to pass the plonk test. Sometimes if the projectiles don't sit perfectly straight as the go up into the seating die they may shave a little coating material.

You don’t get any scrapes at all? Not even where the crimp is at on the bullet?

 

[Aftermath]

Take the seater stem out of the die.
Screw die into press only two turns.
Put a factory round in the shellholder.
Raise the ram all the way up.
Screw die down until it stops, back off 1/4 turn.
Screw seater stem until it makes contact with bullet.

This should get you close.

This is the way.

 

[smoothy8500]

You don’t get any scrapes at all? Not even where the crimp is at on the bullet?

If I pull the bullet, yes I see slight scrapes. However, you shouldn't see lead shavings, coating build up above the case mouth, or big ugly gashes.

 

[mtrmn]

ALWAYS seat and crimp in 2 seperate operations. I bought a seperate taper crimp die for every caliber I load on the Dillon 550b.
You can accomplish the seat/crimp seperately by seating the bullets with the crimp die backed off. then run all the loaded rounds through the crimp die with the seater plug backed off several rounds or completely removed.
Like somebody else said, I've never seen case mouth measurements used during the belling of the case mouth. Just make it look similar to a blunderbuss barrel. Test bullet fit manually until it's just right.
The expander will enter the case for a good distance until it reaches the point where it actually bells the case mouth. Once it reaches that point the adjustment will be very sensitive. You have to bell the case enough for a bullet to start without belling the case TOO much. This requires much trial and error. Expect to ruin a few cases until you get it just right.
WhatsupDoc told you the best way to adjust the crimp/seat die. You CANNOT rely on a case that has already been expanded/belled for the adjustment of the crimp die. The belled case will scrape the sides of the die as it enters the die and will give you the false indication of "resistance".

Edited for more correct information