Sooo are we going to talk about the 700 PCR?

[Boyscout618]

Priced competitively under the RPR, sub-MOA guarantee, and available in .260.

Hopefully Remington pulled their head out of their ass for this one. I will say, anyone else triggered by the fact they claim it is "silencer" ready?

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Wow, almost looks like they realized how far behind they were, seeing as how even Winchester has a chassis rifle. What are the chambering options? Edit: just looked, 6.5CM, 260 and 308. Not a bad start, could use a 6mm and 223 option but only if they use decent twist rates.

 

[_Windrider_]

It’s still a Remington 700. I’m unimpressed. It doesn’t look compatible with any hand guard other than the one it comes with. Definitely going after the tikka and RPR. WTF makes it silenced ready? A threaded barrel? SMFH. Marketing will say anything to make it tacticooler.

 

[Kadams1563]

If it had a .223 version I might be interested more. Also they better have made it accept AR handguards and a barrel nut system. I doubt it though.

 

[kl3309]

The rifle comes with a "3-shot sub-MOA assurance," not a sub-MOA guarantee.
Gonna be heavy in the ass with the PRS stock but otherwise looks perfectly serviceable.

 

[_Windrider_]

If it had a .223 version I might be interested more. Also they better have made it accept AR handguards and a barrel nut system. I doubt it though.

They aren’t gonna offer a bunch of calibers out of thevgate. Took Ruger 2 years to offer 223 as well. You could probably make it 223 pretty easily with a new bolt and barrel.

 

[j741]

Don't understand why they went Keymod when it seems MLok is the emerging preference for accessory attachment.

 

[BoilerUP]

They aren’t gonna offer a bunch of calibers out of thevgate. Took Ruger 2 years to offer 223 as well. You could probably make it 223 pretty easily with a new bolt and barrel.

Ruger has discontinued the 223 RPR for 2018.

 

[_Windrider_]

Don't understand why they went Keymod when it seems MLok is the emerging preference for accessory attachment.

Especially when all the furniture is basically magpul.

 

[308pirate]

even Winchester has a chassis rifle.

I'd be more interested in a review of the Winchester XPC than that of a re-hashed 700, actually

 

[goosed]

The rifle comes with a "3-shot sub-MOA assurance," not a sub-MOA guarantee.

Exactly the same as Tikka's "sub-MOA guarantee", no?

 

[Steel+Killer]

I am not knocking the 700 I have a few that are great shooters, but I feel like the only thing thats going to make Remington "desired or cool again" for lack of a better way to put it is to just start from the ground up with a totally new action. Not that the 700 can't be great its just every time they put their 56 year old baby in a new prom dress most people say "yeah well its just the same old 700"

 

[spartan67]

I bet they drop the ball by having poor twist rates! It seems like Remington does it all to often,

 

[DarinC]

Ruger has discontinued the 223 RPR for 2018.

Really!?!?!
Nuts


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[7mmShooter]

If they redid their bolt action line based on the MSR action they may have something... But rehashing the 700 as usual... Meh

 

[jLorenzo]

It sure looks a hell of a lot better. I like the PRS stock alot. Still don't really trust the QC of Remingtons barrels and actions. I want to like Remington, they have some cool guns but they definitely have that Freedom group/giant corporation vibe, it shows in their products. At this point unless I find a screaming deal on one, I won't be buying any remingtons.

 

[goosed]

I bet they drop the ball by having poor twist rates! It seems like Remington does it all to often,

5R twist rates are nothing new...

308 - 1:11.25
260 - 1:8
6.5CM - 1:8

 

[lennyo3034]

I've bashed on Remington plenty, but it seems like a good decision from their part. Contracting out a chassis and putting an existing barreled action in is not particularly difficult for them. If nothing else, it's a step in the right direction without having to allocate a lot of design resources.

On another note, I saw the new Ashbury 700 today at Cabela's. That had to be the ugliest 700 I've ever seen. I would take the PCR over that any day of the week. All it was was a 700 barreled action (probably the same as PCR) dropped into an ass ugly ashbury stock.

 

[Kadams1563]

Really!?!?!
Nuts


My thoughts exactly. Why the hell they do that???

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[trob_205]

$1199 MSRP according to a Facebook post from Remington. Still trying to find twist rates.

 

[VegasHKShooter]

I kinda like it. Call me crazy, but for Remington, it’s definitely a step in the right direction. I think it has some solid things going for it. I have the MagPul PSR on my GAP-10, and I love it. I can see this giving the Ruger a run for its money. Time will tell, but I don’t hate it.

 

[PS-G1_Sniper]

The rifle comes with a "3-shot sub-MOA assurance," not a sub-MOA guarantee.
Gonna be heavy in the ass with the PRS stock but otherwise looks perfectly serviceable.

I'm not 700 fanboy, but this is basically a 700 5R in a chassis. If you think the 700 5R wont shoot sub MOA, even sub 1/2 MOA - you're focusing too much on marketing brochures.

 

[rookie7]

Large companies, especially old ones, are slow on change.

At least they are trying even though it clearly isn’t for everyone.

BTW, they state in the literature that they make the chassis.

Remington will get a lot of negative criticism regarding this rifle.

There are folks out there that would complain if you gave them $100 for free because it isn’t $101.

 

[_Windrider_]

My only complaint about Bug green is they haven’t changed in god knows how long. It s just the same 700 action with a different look. Not that it’s a bad action cause it’s not and with a little after factory care it’s a great action. But there are others out there that are more innovative. 3 lug systems, 70 degree throw etc etc. just more robust and definitely with a lot more care and attention to detail, even in base rifles that are relatively inexpensive. Basically this is like the Glock gen 5. It’s basically a gen 4 with no finger grooves and and an ambi slide stop. I hardly call that innovation since almost all other manufacturers have ambi controls already. That’s why I’m unimpressed. It’s just the same old thing.

 

[Mute]

Took them long enough. Their PSR offering before cost even more than an AI. I don't think so. It might be too late for them. The competition is very stiff in this bracket. New precision shooters are really lucky given the explosive growth of offerings in this category.

 

[kl3309]

If you think the 700 5R wont shoot sub MOA, even sub 1/2 MOA - you're focusing too much on marketing brochures.

Never said that it would or wouldn't. OP stated that the PCR was shipping with an accuracy guarantee, which it does not.

 

[dirthead1]

Actually looks like a pretty decent rifle. Did I miss what magazines the chassis is designed to use? AICS? I think what Remington has in their favor on this rifle, assuming it shoots well, is the upgradability it gives the shooter. There are so many parts available for the R700. I can see this rifle in direct competition with the Ruger Precision Rifle, which has turned out to be a very accurate gun out of the box. The Remington would give the end user a lot more upgrade options in the future, if they so desired.

 

[goosed]

Actually looks like a pretty decent rifle. Did I miss what magazines the chassis is designed to use? AICS? I think what Remington has in their favor on this rifle, assuming it shoots well, is the upgradability it gives the shooter. There are so many parts available for the R700. I can see this rifle in direct competition with the Ruger Precision Rifle, which has turned out to be a very accurate gun out of the box. The Remington would give the end user a lot more upgrade options in the future, if they so desired.

Ships with Magpul AICS

 

[fxdrider]

$1199 MSRP according to a Facebook post from Remington. Still trying to find twist rates.

Their web site says:

260 - 1:8
6.5CM - 1:8
308 - 1:10

Seems like a pretty good deal to me. One thing I didn't care for with the Ruger Precision Rifle was that 20" was the only barrel length offered for .308. Same for the Winchester XPC. I prefer 24", and all 3 of the Remington PCR's are 24". And the 1:10 twist in .308 is also just what I want.

But unfortunately, it's still the X-Mark trigger, so it's probably not good to go out of the box.

 

[patriot07]

But unfortunately, it's still the X-Mark trigger, so it's probably not good to go out of the box.

The fact that Remington hasn't signed a deal with Timney to offer them factory in all their 700 rifles is a testament to how out of touch their management is.

 

[prcomte]

So what I'm really starting to realize on this forum is that nothing is good enough. 90% of us shoot a Remington 700 or R700 clone. Bighorn, ARC, Stiller, Surgeon, Pierce, Curtis, the list goes on. Remington is offering a decent product at a pretty good price. It seems like you guys are expecting custom action quality for not even a third of cost. You jump on the 'hate Remington' band wagon because it's the 'cool' thing go do and yet you shoot a 700 or a 700 clone. There is a lot of talk, and not a lot of action. You guys sound like a broken record.

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[_Windrider_]

So what I'm really starting to realize on this forum is that nothing is good enough. 90% of us shoot a Remington 700 or R700 clone. Bighorn, ARC, Stiller, Surgeon, Pierce, Curtis, the list goes on. Remington is offering a decent product at a pretty good price. It seems like you guys are expecting custom action quality for not even a third of cost. You jump on the 'hate Remington' band wagon because it's the 'cool' thing go do and yet you shoot a 700 or a 700 clone. There is a lot of talk, and not a lot of action. You guys sound like a broken record.

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Well I own quite a few 700’s. But we all know it’s shortcomings and so does Remington but they refuse to address them. The trigger is a classic example of this. I’m not knocking the 700 per se, I would just like to see Remington update it and fix some of its shortcomings. And most of all fix their QC problems. That goes for the whole company not just the 700, the modern day 870’s are crap.

 

[prcomte]

Well I own quite a few 700�s. But we all know it�s shortcomings and so does Remington but they refuse to address them. The trigger is a classic example of this. I�m not knocking the 700 per se, I would just like to see Remington update it and fix some of its shortcomings. And most of all fix their QC problems. That goes for the whole company not just the 700, the modern day 870�s are crap.

I'm sure Remington does know some of its shortcomings, though how many people here work at a manufacturing facility? Do you grasp the amount of work it is just to change a trigger? The trigger they offer works. If you don't like it. Change it. The market is literally built around the 700 platform. QC is a touchy topic. How much is okay? If we accept only a +/- .001 as a tolerance we are speaking of custom action tolerances. Those tolerances are completely unattainable on mass produced level like Remington is. Especially at the price point they are at. And to complain about barrels and a '1 moa assurance' custom barrel makers also make bad barrels. And usually they say go beat it when you get a bad one because if they replaced every bad one they would be out of business! If people would shoot more than they complain.. well I'm sure we'd have a lot more dick measuring contests than we already do on here. I'm sure im being cynical, though I'm tired of seeing everyone bashing something they have no idea about.

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[Potss]

Still an R700 action. Wake me when they do something beyond dressing up 60 year old tech.

 

[hlee]

It’s ugly, but beauty is subjective. I like the look of the RPR, but others do not. My RPR shoots beyond my expectations, and my abilities, so I have no complaints. I don’t know of anyone that has complained about Remington’s 5r rifled barrels. If they can equal the RPR accuracy they will have a solid gun. Doing so for $200-$300 less than the RPR should get the attention of some people- even if it is “just another 700.” Looks like it uses standard AR stocks which makes personalization easy, which is a plus, even without a folding stock. The hand guard may be proprietary, but I find it hard to believe it would be that difficult for a 700 accessory manufacturer to bang out a replacement. There is already a huge market for Remington accessories- this is almost a no brainer. I own 2 700s but will likely not buy another. But I will be neither selling those that I own nor pushing them to the back of the safe. Ruger has already shown that an inexpensive, though quality, entry level precision rifle can be a success. And, reducing the barrier to entry for new shooters is only a positive for the shooting sorts. I think this is a day late and a dollar short for Remington, but I hope it works out for them. If the accuracy is there, I don’t see a downside for any of us.

 

[patriot07]

So what I'm really starting to realize on this forum is that nothing is good enough. 90% of us shoot a Remington 700 or R700 clone. Bighorn, ARC, Stiller, Surgeon, Pierce, Curtis, the list goes on. Remington is offering a decent product at a pretty good price. It seems like you guys are expecting custom action quality for not even a third of cost. You jump on the 'hate Remington' band wagon because it's the 'cool' thing go do and yet you shoot a 700 or a 700 clone. There is a lot of talk, and not a lot of action. You guys sound like a broken record.

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I started with Savage and moved to Tikka and have only shot Remingtons and talked with those who own them or their variants. If you buy a Remington in today's market, I still contend it's only because you're uninformed. There is ALWAYS a better option at the same price point. A custom patterned off the 700 was done so to allow for use of aftermarket parts for the 700 - not because of Remington's awesome quality and value (snicker). You say "you guys are expecting custom quality for not even a third of the cost" - that's almost exactly what Tikka does. It's 95% of custom quality for a fraction of the price.

But hey, Hillary got 60M votes - there are lots of uninformed people out there. This isn't news - to me anyway.

 

[_Windrider_]

I started with Savage and moved to Tikka and have only shot Remingtons and talked with those who own them or their variants. If you buy a Remington in today's market, I still contend it's only because you're uninformed. There is ALWAYS a better option at the same price point. A custom patterned off the 700 was done so to allow for use of aftermarket parts for the 700 - not because of Remington's awesome quality and value (snicker). You say "you guys are expecting custom quality for not even a third of the cost" - that's almost exactly what Tikka does. It's 95% of custom quality for a fraction of the price.

But hey, Hillary got 60M votes - there are lots of uninformed people out there. This isn't news - to me anyway.

Exactly. The pattern is the standard, not the receiver itself.

 

[308pirate]

how many people here work at a manufacturing facility?
I do, and have for the last 26 years

Do you grasp the amount of work it is just to change a trigger?
I've been involved in literally dozens and dozens of design change implementations in my career. It's safe to say that I grasp the work it takes, and it's not as much as you might think

If we accept only a +/- .001 as a tolerance we are speaking of custom action tolerances. Those tolerances are completely unattainable on mass produced level like Remington is.
That all depends on the feature being machined, the material being machined, the machining method used, the ease of achieving a consistent setup, and the throughput desired, among many other factors to be considered. Also, not everything needs to be ± .001. Some features can be ± .010, some need to be ± .0005. Making such a blanket, oversimplified statement shows ignorance.

if they replaced every bad one they would be out of business!
Tough shit. Make a better product that meets customer expectations or go out of business.

I'm tired of seeing everyone bashing something they have no idea about.
Me too

You asked.........

 

[308pirate]

There is a lot of talk, and not a lot of action.

All my bolt action rifles have always been from three manufacturers:

• Howa Machinery
• Winchester Repeating Arms/US Repeating Arms
• Ceska Zbrojovka

Money talks

 

[lash]

You asked.........

^^^What he said.^^^

I have worked in manufacturing almost my whole career, the last 8 years in a machining intensive facility where we turn out 250,000-400,000 machined parts per week for the automotive industry with tolerances as tight as +/- 0.001". Absolutely every defect that gets out of our facility is counted and requires tons of paperwork response and a corrective action. We don't get paid for those parts and must replace them. We receive engineering changes many times throughout the year on newer parts, and they must be implemented in short weeks so that your new car/truck is never delayed on the assembly line. Oh, and we have an active part list of more than 300 parts and over 100 service parts at any given time. so our setups get changed weekly, sometimes daily, depending upon the volume of a specific part.

So yeah. Stop defending them for being inferior.

I still own two R700s, including one of the long range rifles with the 5R barrel in .30-06. That one is adequate and a good shooter, though I did change the trigger out first thing. Personally, I don't expect a precision rifle in the $300-500 range from any of the manufacturers, but once they start labeling something as long range/precision and charging in the $800-1200 range, there is an expectation that I should receive something better for my money.

Which brings up the trigger issue you mention. The factory triggers are adequate for the average person buying their rifle, the basic hunter person. This has been discussed ad nauseam in another recent thread. But, I shouldn't have to immediately swap out the trigger for something that actually works for a precision rifle. One doesn't have to swap out an RPR or Tikka (nor even Savage actually) trigger to get acceptable results.

 

[5RWill]

My only complaint about Bug green is they haven’t changed in god knows how long. It s just the same 700 action with a different look. Not that it’s a bad action cause it’s not and with a little after factory care it’s a great action. But there are others out there that are more innovative. 3 lug systems, 70 degree throw etc etc. just more robust and definitely with a lot more care and attention to detail, even in base rifles that are relatively inexpensive. Basically this is like the Glock gen 5. It’s basically a gen 4 with no finger grooves and and an ambi slide stop. I hardly call that innovation since almost all other manufacturers have ambi controls already. That’s why I’m unimpressed. It’s just the same old thing.

This. I don't understand why they can't field a 700 that's been upgraded with a side bolt release or extractor. Something. It's literally a waste of money when you can spend 1000-1500$ (depending on the smith) and have a custom barreled action. Dunno that it would ever matter though while my 5R shot extremely well i've not trusted Remington's QC for a loooong time now.

 

[Ledzep]

I read 3-shot sub-moa "assurance" as a tech fires 3 round groups in a fixture until one prints with an ES less than an inch. Sorry if my pessimism is showing.

I guess a step in the right direction but it will still be a while before I put any faith in a factory Remington.

 

[alfack]

You can have been a machinist since the bronze age and know everything about the subject. Until you show me the specs and the measured parts that are out of spec and a sufficient sample size of those parts, I will take your OPINION with a grain of salt. It's like saying "everyone knows Trump is a racist," even though it's BS. Just because your third cousin, twice removed, had an 870 with an action that felt gritty, doesn't mean current production is shit. If you get something you feel is wrong, send it back. You don't think it costs them money every time you do, or that it is in their best interest to minimize those cases? Whatever. I enjoy all weapons. That said, I think all chassis are ugly and are a crutch for people who can't hit a group without bolting their shit to a lead sled and pulling the trigger with a string

 

[The King]

Guys - don't feed the 14-post-joined-this-week troll.

I'm pretty sure the question isn't "is a Remington action good?"...its "Are there ANY companies that make rifles today that aren't better than a Remington 700?" Thats a conversation I think we can have. with some benefit.

It works - barely. Its got to be the bottom of the bucket these days.

As a machinist, having mass produced parts for similar cost structure items as a rifle action, any QC failure on remington's part is just shitty workmanship. Modern machinery and processes get it 99.999997% of the time, and checking for that last few out of spec items is easy in a good QC fixture set.

Remington's problem is they don't give a shit - no new designs for a precision rifle action despite already having one that is only marginally harder to produce than the 700. A $1500 PSR would sell all damn week, and twice on Sunday.

You can have been a machinist since the bronze age and know everything about the subject. Until you show me the specs and the measured parts that are out of spec and a sufficient sample size of those parts, I will take your OPINION with a grain of salt. It's like saying "everyone knows Trump is a racist," even though it's BS. Just because your third cousin, twice removed, had an 870 with an action that felt gritty, doesn't mean current production is shit. If you get something you feel is wrong, send it back. You don't think it costs them money every time you do, or that it is in their best interest to minimize those cases? Whatever. I enjoy all weapons. That said, I think all chassis are ugly and are a crutch for people who can't hit a group without bolting their shit to a lead sled and pulling the trigger with a string

 

[308pirate]

Remington's problem is they don't give a shit

That pretty well sums it up. I'm sure they have the tools and the talent. What they lack is the desire.

 

[_Windrider_]

That pretty well sums it up. I'm sure they have the tools and the talent. What they lack is the desire.

They are a lot like Boeing, all they care about are the military contracts.

 

[alfack]

Guys - don't feed the 14-post-joined-this-week troll.

I'm pretty sure the question isn't "is a Remington action good?"...its "Are there ANY companies that make rifles today that aren't better than a Remington 700?" Thats a conversation I think we can have. with some benefit.

It works - barely. Its got to be the bottom of the bucket these days.

As a machinist, having mass produced parts for similar cost structure items as a rifle action, any QC failure on remington's part is just shitty workmanship. Modern machinery and processes get it 99.999997% of the time, and checking for that last few out of spec items is easy in a good QC fixture set.

Remington's problem is they don't give a shit - no new designs for a precision rifle action despite already having one that is only marginally harder to produce than the 700. A $1500 PSR would sell all damn week, and twice on Sunday.

Sweet. A post counter. Show me the money. Talk's cheap. Sorry if I like to see evidence of accusations people make, especially evidence that counters my personal experience with the product in question.

 

[tomcatfan]

Well I guess it's a step in the right direction. About 3 years or so behind the power curve, but better late than never. Now if they could only start loading their ammunition with the pointy end of the bullet facing the right direction, we would be in business.

 

[The King]

And how many 700’s do you have experience with? I have had 15 or so since when I started my long range work 25 years ago there were many fewer options. I have worked on about 50 more. Not a tithe on some of the dedicated smiths around here, but plenty enough for me.

Of those 15 half of them needed work. Some of them came with the Xmark trigger, which had a tendency to self discharge after wear in. One had bad headspace and would blow primers like crazy. One 700P shot nice 3” groups The crown was fucked right out of the box and we had to recut it when we threaded the muzzle. I broke the bolt handle off one just running it normally. I have a trued action now on a gun I’m breaking down to sell - it took .010 off the front ring to true it. Broken extractor - broken firing pins - blah blah blah.

And the other half were fine...even for a time Remington got better at making guns that were in spec.

There is an entire enormous aftermarket around the 700 for a reason. And there is a reason that 1 moa was considered an achievement instead of table stakes.

Did you know that that the first company to release a tikka trigger in the US just got to market this year? And their only real selling point is that it’s two stage? Nobody is dumb enough to release a single stage trigger to compete with the excellent bulletproof unit that goes in the tikka at the factory.

Hell, I’ll say all this and mention I don’t even own a Tikka anymore.

Sweet. A post counter. Show me the money. Talk's cheap. Sorry if I like to see evidence of accusations people make, especially evidence that counters my personal experience with the product in question.

 

[alfack]

I've had my share and several other of their products. I currently have a CDL SF LE in .260 and just picked up a 5R, also in .260. The CDL was part of the x-mark recall, but is an awesome lightweight hunting rifle. I slapped a Timney in it and problem solved. I haven't even shot the 5R yet. Waiting on optics.

I'm not doubting your experience and you sound like a picky bastard, as am I. I think the world, these days, is run by HR and bean-counters. As far as current production QC, I'll reserve judgement and give them the benefit of the doubt until I see how the 5R shoots. If it doesn't, back it goes.

I buy them because I like to tinker and prove I can get them to shoot as well as rifles that cost a lot more. You can't really compare them to high dollar GA Precision like rifles, where they have much smaller production runs and a closer eye on QC. I have seen people griping about almost all manufacturers at some point or another. It's built into the system. The more popular a gun becomes = more sales = larger production runs = more tools that wear out = more chances of out of spec guns leaving the factory. They are like cars. Each one of them have their design flaws and it's just a matter of time before you see them. That's what fuels the aftermarket. I always buy my cars without the crap I know I will replace, like the audio system.