- Thread starter bfoosh006
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Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
My Larue is averaging 1.25 MOA groups at 100-300 yards. That is from prone position bipod (no snadbags), and a shooter that needs some practice. It has gotten as good as 0.4 MOA in 10mph winds, and very regularly hits 0.75 MOA. I am sure the upper is much better than the groups I can get from it.
My Larue is averaging 1.25 MOA groups at 100-300 yards. That is from prone position bipod (no snadbags), and a shooter that needs some practice. It has gotten as good as 0.4 MOA in 10mph winds, and very regularly hits 0.75 MOA. I am sure the upper is much better than the groups I can get from it.
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
I guess I should also mention that this average was with Federal .223 77gr GMM, TAP 5.56mm, M855, and all different combinations of handloads. The upper has a better average now that I am learning what it likes in a handload.
I guess I should also mention that this average was with Federal .223 77gr GMM, TAP 5.56mm, M855, and all different combinations of handloads. The upper has a better average now that I am learning what it likes in a handload.
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
my armalite SASS shoots a solid .75 moa @100. I have only shot it to 400 on one range trip and out to 400yds it was less than 1moa to that distance (2,3 and4) All shooting was with a can on it. All of this is 308, not 223
my armalite SASS shoots a solid .75 moa @100. I have only shot it to 400 on one range trip and out to 400yds it was less than 1moa to that distance (2,3 and4) All shooting was with a can on it. All of this is 308, not 223
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
Only upper I've had shoot that well with handloads is my bull upper. My free floated HBAR will shoot 3/4 with good ammo pretty regularly.
Both of these uppers are RRA 20" with wylde chamber btw.
Spending a lot on an expensive upper will get you more features and quality parts but I'm not sure you will get more accuracy - I had an 18" 1:7 medium profile barrel custom upper and it didn't really shoot any better than my RRA HBAR, so I sold it.
Only upper I've had shoot that well with handloads is my bull upper. My free floated HBAR will shoot 3/4 with good ammo pretty regularly.
Both of these uppers are RRA 20" with wylde chamber btw.
Spending a lot on an expensive upper will get you more features and quality parts but I'm not sure you will get more accuracy - I had an 18" 1:7 medium profile barrel custom upper and it didn't really shoot any better than my RRA HBAR, so I sold it.
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
Ask this guy, you will be hard pressed to own (shoot) one this accurate.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...089#Post1749089
Ask this guy, you will be hard pressed to own (shoot) one this accurate.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...089#Post1749089
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
It's all about the barrel/bolt combo. LaRue makes good stuff and I had a Stealth that shot .75"-1" at 100yds. But if you want the absolute best, you need to talk to the smiths that cater to HP competitors. They shoot for score against the best and demand the best. Talk to Compass Lake Engineering(CLE) and White Oak Armament(WOA). Tell them what your requirements are and have them build you a custom upper or at least provide you with a barrel/bolt. I believe CLE provides barrels to the AMU: you will find no better. WOA is in the same league also.
It's all about the barrel/bolt combo. LaRue makes good stuff and I had a Stealth that shot .75"-1" at 100yds. But if you want the absolute best, you need to talk to the smiths that cater to HP competitors. They shoot for score against the best and demand the best. Talk to Compass Lake Engineering(CLE) and White Oak Armament(WOA). Tell them what your requirements are and have them build you a custom upper or at least provide you with a barrel/bolt. I believe CLE provides barrels to the AMU: you will find no better. WOA is in the same league also.
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
My 16" Larue shot .5 moa at 100 with over the counter black hills match ammo.
I have no problem hitting a 5" disk one after another at 400 with handloads, 69gr SMK's at 2750.
I am really happy with the Larue products. I have used it in dusty conditions and with a suppressor, still as accurate and dependable.
CJG
My 16" Larue shot .5 moa at 100 with over the counter black hills match ammo.
I have no problem hitting a 5" disk one after another at 400 with handloads, 69gr SMK's at 2750.
I am really happy with the Larue products. I have used it in dusty conditions and with a suppressor, still as accurate and dependable.
CJG
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bfoosh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just like the title says,(using good quality ammo) I'd appreciate real life experience.
I've been strongly considering the 20"/13.2 handguard LaRue Stealth. That configuration suits my "needs" very well. </div></div>
Larger question, are you really a ½ MOA driver?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bfoosh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just like the title says,(using good quality ammo) I'd appreciate real life experience.
I've been strongly considering the 20"/13.2 handguard LaRue Stealth. That configuration suits my "needs" very well. </div></div>
Larger question, are you really a ½ MOA driver?
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
Every Les Baer that I have owned or witnessed shooting first hand has shot groups of less then a half inch at 100. Unless the shooter screws up the gun will shoot ragged holes 10-30 shots does not matter....For some reason on this board many are hung up on tactical names of mfg...that is fine there are many great companies who produce top notch barrels...but imho Les Baer barrels are a cut above the rest and prove it every time I shoot against others in my club or at the range.....
Every Les Baer that I have owned or witnessed shooting first hand has shot groups of less then a half inch at 100. Unless the shooter screws up the gun will shoot ragged holes 10-30 shots does not matter....For some reason on this board many are hung up on tactical names of mfg...that is fine there are many great companies who produce top notch barrels...but imho Les Baer barrels are a cut above the rest and prove it every time I shoot against others in my club or at the range.....
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
White Oak +1 here is an ar-10 that John put a kreger barrel on it
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showpic&id=4377
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showpic&id=4376
White Oak +1 here is an ar-10 that John put a kreger barrel on it
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showpic&id=4377
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showpic&id=4376
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bfoosh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just like the title says,(using good quality ammo) I'd appreciate real life experience.
I've been strongly considering the 20"/13.2 handguard LaRue Stealth. That configuration suits my "needs" very well. </div></div>
Larger question, are you really a ½ MOA driver? </div></div>
I was thinking the same thing.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bfoosh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just like the title says,(using good quality ammo) I'd appreciate real life experience.
I've been strongly considering the 20"/13.2 handguard LaRue Stealth. That configuration suits my "needs" very well. </div></div>
Larger question, are you really a ½ MOA driver? </div></div>
I was thinking the same thing.
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
I have seen/fired rifles from Larue (16" and 20" Stealth), WOA, Les Baer (Supermatch and M4), and JP Enterprises (older supermatch barreled rifle and newer CT-02 rifles) are all capable of the kind of accuracy you are looking for with proper ammunition if the nut behind the butt is doing his job. I have seen those same rifles shoot well over MOA with shooters who didn't know how to properly shoot an AR.
The rifle itself is only part of the equation.
I have seen/fired rifles from Larue (16" and 20" Stealth), WOA, Les Baer (Supermatch and M4), and JP Enterprises (older supermatch barreled rifle and newer CT-02 rifles) are all capable of the kind of accuracy you are looking for with proper ammunition if the nut behind the butt is doing his job. I have seen those same rifles shoot well over MOA with shooters who didn't know how to properly shoot an AR.
The rifle itself is only part of the equation.
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bfoosh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just like the title says,(using good quality ammo) I'd appreciate real life experience.
I've been strongly considering the 20"/13.2 handguard LaRue Stealth. That configuration suits my "needs" very well. </div></div>
Larger question, are you really a ½ MOA driver? </div></div>
Excellent.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bfoosh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just like the title says,(using good quality ammo) I'd appreciate real life experience.
I've been strongly considering the 20"/13.2 handguard LaRue Stealth. That configuration suits my "needs" very well. </div></div>
Larger question, are you really a ½ MOA driver? </div></div>
Excellent.
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">It's all about the barrel/bolt combo.</span> LaRue makes good stuff and I had a Stealth that shot .75"-1" at 100yds. But if you want the absolute best, you need to talk to the smiths that cater to HP competitors. They shoot for score against the best and demand the best. Talk to Compass Lake Engineering(CLE) and White Oak Armament(WOA). Tell them what your requirements are and have them build you a custom upper or at least provide you with a barrel/bolt. I believe CLE provides barrels to the AMU: you will find no better. WOA is in the same league also. </div></div>
Yes, it has to do with the barrel/bolt combo, but it also has to do with the fit of the barrel to the upper receiver. I received a Noveske barrel last week ($450) last week that had .004" of slop to the upper I was mating it to, which was machined to the right ID, 1.000". I'm very happy with the Noveske barrels quality, the loose fit is due to the extension, which I doubt Noveske makes themselves.
I used .002" thick piece of shim-stock wrapped around the extension to achieve a press fit of the extension to the receiver. I'll advise on how it shoots, but this is one of the key areas that builders "In the know" focus on, since an AR that shoots 1/2MOA one day might shoot 1MOA the next time out, if the barrel has shifted in the receiver.
-matt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">It's all about the barrel/bolt combo.</span> LaRue makes good stuff and I had a Stealth that shot .75"-1" at 100yds. But if you want the absolute best, you need to talk to the smiths that cater to HP competitors. They shoot for score against the best and demand the best. Talk to Compass Lake Engineering(CLE) and White Oak Armament(WOA). Tell them what your requirements are and have them build you a custom upper or at least provide you with a barrel/bolt. I believe CLE provides barrels to the AMU: you will find no better. WOA is in the same league also. </div></div>
Yes, it has to do with the barrel/bolt combo, but it also has to do with the fit of the barrel to the upper receiver. I received a Noveske barrel last week ($450) last week that had .004" of slop to the upper I was mating it to, which was machined to the right ID, 1.000". I'm very happy with the Noveske barrels quality, the loose fit is due to the extension, which I doubt Noveske makes themselves.
I used .002" thick piece of shim-stock wrapped around the extension to achieve a press fit of the extension to the receiver. I'll advise on how it shoots, but this is one of the key areas that builders "In the know" focus on, since an AR that shoots 1/2MOA one day might shoot 1MOA the next time out, if the barrel has shifted in the receiver.
-matt
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
I have a larue stealth matched pair with a noveske 16'' barrel and that was shooting 1 moa out to 300 yesterday in 15 mph crosswinds. that is with a very bad trigger. The barrel has a 1:7 twist. The rifle now has 180 rds through it and except the trigger i am really impressed. with a better trigger and a little less wind I think i could get it to .75 maybe a little less.
I have a larue stealth matched pair with a noveske 16'' barrel and that was shooting 1 moa out to 300 yesterday in 15 mph crosswinds. that is with a very bad trigger. The barrel has a 1:7 twist. The rifle now has 180 rds through it and except the trigger i am really impressed. with a better trigger and a little less wind I think i could get it to .75 maybe a little less.
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
Take a look at Fulton Armory. They make a match upper, with a krieger barrel, that is fabulous.
Take a look at Fulton Armory. They make a match upper, with a krieger barrel, that is fabulous.
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
I had ADCO build me a mk12 clone with a WOA barrel. Just put a scope on it and took it to the range last thursday. I didnt save the groups, but I had a nice 30rd rapid fire group all within a 1in circle while sighting in. I wasn't shooting for groups that day. Mind me it was my first time shooting a AR, and it felt damn good.
Next time I go to the range ill shoot a few groups.
I had ADCO build me a mk12 clone with a WOA barrel. Just put a scope on it and took it to the range last thursday. I didnt save the groups, but I had a nice 30rd rapid fire group all within a 1in circle while sighting in. I wasn't shooting for groups that day. Mind me it was my first time shooting a AR, and it felt damn good.
Next time I go to the range ill shoot a few groups.
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReconRanger</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had ADCO build me a mk12 clone with a WOA barrel. Just put a scope on it and took it to the range last thursday. I didnt save the groups, but I had a nice 30rd rapid fire group all within a 1in circle while sighting in. I wasn't shooting for groups that day. Mind me it was my first time shooting a AR, and it felt damn good. Next time I go to the range ill shoot a few groups. </div></div>
Mine would be lucky to shoot close to 1.5 MOA. So disappointing, I just don't shoot it that much anymore. I am thinking about starting over and using all different components.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReconRanger</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had ADCO build me a mk12 clone with a WOA barrel. Just put a scope on it and took it to the range last thursday. I didnt save the groups, but I had a nice 30rd rapid fire group all within a 1in circle while sighting in. I wasn't shooting for groups that day. Mind me it was my first time shooting a AR, and it felt damn good.
Next time I go to the range ill shoot a few groups. </div></div>Mine would be lucky to shoot close to 1.5 MOA. So disappointing, I just don't shoot it that much anymore. I am thinking about starting over and using all different components.
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
I think the question of 'are you a 1/2 MOA shooter?' is the place to start. The second one is to always ask when someone makes a claim of accuracy is 'how many round group?' There is a big difference between 3 or 5 rounds vs a 10 or even 20 round group. I highly doubt most that claim to have day in and day out 1/2 MOA AR would be able to show you a 1/2 MOA 10 round, let alone 20 round group. IMHO the best barrels are going to show more like a 3/4 MOA 10 or 20 round group.
Good luck
I think the question of 'are you a 1/2 MOA shooter?' is the place to start. The second one is to always ask when someone makes a claim of accuracy is 'how many round group?' There is a big difference between 3 or 5 rounds vs a 10 or even 20 round group. I highly doubt most that claim to have day in and day out 1/2 MOA AR would be able to show you a 1/2 MOA 10 round, let alone 20 round group. IMHO the best barrels are going to show more like a 3/4 MOA 10 or 20 round group.
Good luck
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
I would recommend JP AR's. I own three. They shoot amazingly well.
On a good day I can squeeze 1/2" groups out of them at 100 yards with quality factory ammo.
I shot my 20" model in a 600 yard shoot the other day and my best 5 shot group was just under 4 1/2". Was a bit windy that day.
Below are some pics as I was sighting a couple of them in (that is why the groups started way away from the bulls). Bottom one only has a 4X max mag scope...with a higher mag scope the groups are much smaller...my third 16" has a 2.5-16X scope and it will turn out the same groups as the 20".
Take care,Stan
I would recommend JP AR's. I own three. They shoot amazingly well.
On a good day I can squeeze 1/2" groups out of them at 100 yards with quality factory ammo.
I shot my 20" model in a 600 yard shoot the other day and my best 5 shot group was just under 4 1/2". Was a bit windy that day.
Below are some pics as I was sighting a couple of them in (that is why the groups started way away from the bulls). Bottom one only has a 4X max mag scope...with a higher mag scope the groups are much smaller...my third 16" has a 2.5-16X scope and it will turn out the same groups as the 20".
Take care,Stan
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
I have uppers chambered in .20TAC and 6x45 built by Mike Milli @ Dedicated Technology (Dtech) that will hold 0.5- 0.75MOA five shot groups pretty dang consistently. Both are Shilen Select barrels.
.20TAC, ready for p-doggin'...
I have uppers chambered in .20TAC and 6x45 built by Mike Milli @ Dedicated Technology (Dtech) that will hold 0.5- 0.75MOA five shot groups pretty dang consistently. Both are Shilen Select barrels.
.20TAC, ready for p-doggin'...
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fredo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Ask this guy, you will be hard pressed to own (shoot) one this accurate.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...089#Post1749089 </div></div>
Wow, I can barely beat his groups with my Savage bolt-gun.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fredo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Ask this guy, you will be hard pressed to own (shoot) one this accurate.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...089#Post1749089 </div></div>
Wow, I can barely beat his groups with my Savage bolt-gun.
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
I have a SDMRish upper that I need to get rid of. I have shot a few groups around .6 MOA with it using 77grain SMK. You have to reload to get this kind of accuracy. It is a 20" DPMS with freefloat quadrail. This rifle is chambered for .223 and uses a DPMS stainless match 22" barrel (black teflon coated on the outside). I still have a lot of mileage left on the barrel. I also have a Leupy MR-T 2.5-8x that I have been using on it that I would like to sell.
http://www.ksl.com/index.php ad#10200580
Chiller can attest to the fact that I managed to place second once at Kurts match with this rifle.
If i am out of line posting this I apologize - please remove this posting if I am.
I have a SDMRish upper that I need to get rid of. I have shot a few groups around .6 MOA with it using 77grain SMK. You have to reload to get this kind of accuracy. It is a 20" DPMS with freefloat quadrail. This rifle is chambered for .223 and uses a DPMS stainless match 22" barrel (black teflon coated on the outside). I still have a lot of mileage left on the barrel. I also have a Leupy MR-T 2.5-8x that I have been using on it that I would like to sell.
http://www.ksl.com/index.php ad#10200580
Chiller can attest to the fact that I managed to place second once at Kurts match with this rifle.
If i am out of line posting this I apologize - please remove this posting if I am.
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bfoosh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just like the title says,(using good quality ammo) I'd appreciate real life experience.
I've been strongly considering the 20"/13.2 handguard LaRue Stealth. That configuration suits my "needs" very well. </div></div>
Larger question, are you really a ½ MOA driver? </div></div>
Sometimes, having a accurate rifle makes it much easier to learn from my mistakes/faults. I can tell much easier what I've done wrong, jerking the trigger, bad position, incorrect breathing...etc. Heck, I've reached the point with my M1A, that I can tell from the groups what part of the system needs cleaning. I am still working on the wind reading ( for the AR), my M1A with its .308 bullets has spoiled me a little.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bfoosh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just like the title says,(using good quality ammo) I'd appreciate real life experience.
I've been strongly considering the 20"/13.2 handguard LaRue Stealth. That configuration suits my "needs" very well. </div></div>
Larger question, are you really a ½ MOA driver? </div></div>
Sometimes, having a accurate rifle makes it much easier to learn from my mistakes/faults. I can tell much easier what I've done wrong, jerking the trigger, bad position, incorrect breathing...etc. Heck, I've reached the point with my M1A, that I can tell from the groups what part of the system needs cleaning. I am still working on the wind reading ( for the AR), my M1A with its .308 bullets has spoiled me a little.
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
Here is a group from my bull AR (at 208 yards I think it was):
I peeled the sticker off the target and stuck it on an old gift card.
I built it up for varmint hunting but didn't really enjoy it, so I traded it to my father. The group shot above was a couple years ago, I was using 52grain sierra BTHP and 25.4 grains IMR 4320 (which I thought was great powder, I don't know why it isn't used more often).
Here is a group from my bull AR (at 208 yards I think it was):
I peeled the sticker off the target and stuck it on an old gift card.
I built it up for varmint hunting but didn't really enjoy it, so I traded it to my father. The group shot above was a couple years ago, I was using 52grain sierra BTHP and 25.4 grains IMR 4320 (which I thought was great powder, I don't know why it isn't used more often).
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
but you missed the bull
but you missed the bull
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
scottmilk9 here on the hide has been known to twist together a good upper.
I took notice when I saw George Gardner pick one up on his walk of the prize table at NorCal last year.........
scottmilk9 here on the hide has been known to twist together a good upper.
I took notice when I saw George Gardner pick one up on his walk of the prize table at NorCal last year.........
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
One day, and one day only: DPMS 24" Bull, Armalite NM lower, with 2-stage trigger; 27 grs. BLC-2, 52 gr. Berger Moly's. 3-5shot groups under .5moa. Ran out of that load, that day, as I was develping a load for BLC-2.
No beer the night before, good nights sleep, only one 24 ounce cup of coffee on the way to the range, and no one shooting a canon next to me. Temp 74, wind calm, shooter calm. Concrete bench and sandbags.
One day, and one day only: DPMS 24" Bull, Armalite NM lower, with 2-stage trigger; 27 grs. BLC-2, 52 gr. Berger Moly's. 3-5shot groups under .5moa. Ran out of that load, that day, as I was develping a load for BLC-2.
No beer the night before, good nights sleep, only one 24 ounce cup of coffee on the way to the range, and no one shooting a canon next to me. Temp 74, wind calm, shooter calm. Concrete bench and sandbags.
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clayward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but you missed the bull </div></div>
Who me? Close counts.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clayward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but you missed the bull </div></div>
Who me? Close counts.
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
When Clark came out with the "Gator", it was supposed to shoot 1/2" at 100 yards. I bought one, and two friends also bought them. The best I've got out of mine at 100 yards is 3/4", but, the same load also shoots 3/4"at 200 yards.
I shot both of my friend's "Gators", and easily got 1/2" groups at 100 yards.
When Clark came out with the "Gator", it was supposed to shoot 1/2" at 100 yards. I bought one, and two friends also bought them. The best I've got out of mine at 100 yards is 3/4", but, the same load also shoots 3/4"at 200 yards.
I shot both of my friend's "Gators", and easily got 1/2" groups at 100 yards.
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
no bgbmbo with the fine jp..
no bgbmbo with the fine jp..
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
My Compass Lake Engineering and White Oak Armament uppers will both shoot 1/2 MOA or better off a sand bag on a bench with a scope. I've shot 1/4 MOA groups with the CLE upper in load testisng and its a 20 inch service rifle upper.
My Compass Lake Engineering and White Oak Armament uppers will both shoot 1/2 MOA or better off a sand bag on a bench with a scope. I've shot 1/4 MOA groups with the CLE upper in load testisng and its a 20 inch service rifle upper.
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
CLE
CLE
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
I agree with clayward, Les Baer. Thay all flat shoot. For some reason, they are not popular with the tactical group. No idea why. With Baer, accuracy is a given. I have owned 4 and shot about that many more and all will shoot like you want them to.
I agree with clayward, Les Baer. Thay all flat shoot. For some reason, they are not popular with the tactical group. No idea why. With Baer, accuracy is a given. I have owned 4 and shot about that many more and all will shoot like you want them to.
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
My Noveske 18" spr can shoot 1/2-3/4 with match ammo
My Noveske 18" spr can shoot 1/2-3/4 with match ammo
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
well thats good to hear since my SPR build is on a noveske barrel.
well thats good to hear since my SPR build is on a noveske barrel.
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
To Mo Zam Beeks question I would say that no one has any way of knowing how good of a shooter he or she is until they get a weapon that shoots better than they do. A .25 moa shooter will never know it with a 4 moa rifle. Shooters who try to get the most accurate rifles and ammo they can do so to push themselves to the weapons level. I cannot imagine anyone accepting a weapon worse than their skill level.
I would agree that you are right about the groups opening up with 10 or 20 shots. More so with the light barrels. I use my M4 type 16" Les Baers as varmint rifles, coyotes, foxes crows etc. I get consistant CBS POI, great 3 and 5 shot groups and restrict my shooting to 350 yards, and am happy with them.
To Mo Zam Beeks question I would say that no one has any way of knowing how good of a shooter he or she is until they get a weapon that shoots better than they do. A .25 moa shooter will never know it with a 4 moa rifle. Shooters who try to get the most accurate rifles and ammo they can do so to push themselves to the weapons level. I cannot imagine anyone accepting a weapon worse than their skill level.
I would agree that you are right about the groups opening up with 10 or 20 shots. More so with the light barrels. I use my M4 type 16" Les Baers as varmint rifles, coyotes, foxes crows etc. I get consistant CBS POI, great 3 and 5 shot groups and restrict my shooting to 350 yards, and am happy with them.
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the question of 'are you a 1/2 MOA shooter?' is the place to start. The second one is to always ask when someone makes a claim of accuracy is 'how many round group?' There is a big difference between 3 or 5 rounds vs a 10 or even 20 round group. I highly doubt most that claim to have day in and day out 1/2 MOA AR would be able to show you a 1/2 MOA 10 round, let alone 20 round group. IMHO the best barrels are going to show more like a 3/4 MOA 10 or 20 round group.
Good luck
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I disagree, muliple 3 shot groups are an accurate reflection on a rifles capabilities. The more shots in a group the more chance for human error. I would rather have 10 - 3 shot 1/2" groups than 1 - 30 shot 1/2" group if I am testing the rifle, if I am testing the shooter than I would use the 30 shot group. The only exception to this would be if you are testing for the affects of group size because of barrel heatup.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the question of 'are you a 1/2 MOA shooter?' is the place to start. The second one is to always ask when someone makes a claim of accuracy is 'how many round group?' There is a big difference between 3 or 5 rounds vs a 10 or even 20 round group. I highly doubt most that claim to have day in and day out 1/2 MOA AR would be able to show you a 1/2 MOA 10 round, let alone 20 round group. IMHO the best barrels are going to show more like a 3/4 MOA 10 or 20 round group.
Good luck
</div></div>
I disagree, muliple 3 shot groups are an accurate reflection on a rifles capabilities. The more shots in a group the more chance for human error. I would rather have 10 - 3 shot 1/2" groups than 1 - 30 shot 1/2" group if I am testing the rifle, if I am testing the shooter than I would use the 30 shot group. The only exception to this would be if you are testing for the affects of group size because of barrel heatup.
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
I know that this is heresy here on the 'Hide, but my input is Olympic Arms Ultramatch. I have had two (still have one of them) and both were unbelievably accurate.
No, they are not a military grade rifle, but neither is an Anschutz.
I know that this is heresy here on the 'Hide, but my input is Olympic Arms Ultramatch. I have had two (still have one of them) and both were unbelievably accurate.
No, they are not a military grade rifle, but neither is an Anschutz.
Re: Sooo....Who sells a real 1/2" moa AR Upper?
Oly Arms Ultramatch is very accurate, but the minimal SAAMI specs chamber (Clymer reamer)was not suitable for my purposes. I need a chamber that's accurate, but not too tight (from a reliability standpoint in a combat environment), and something that can handle higher 5.56mm load pressures. That's why I went with the Wylde chamber on my SDMR. Also some of the really accurate AR barrels mentioned are bull barrels and that's also unacceptable for me for combat applications, (bench rest ok) --if I have to carry it, I want it to be light. Weight is a whole different subject, but I've seen M4's w/ so much commercially marketed AR junk attached, their almost as heavy as an M2, lol.
..So when the individual does make the decision about 1/2" MOA capable upper, the obvious question they must also ask themselves is "what do you I want to do with this?" and is an important one. If it's benchrest, the 300 lb barrel with the heavy baseball bat scope -- not a problem. Or the 1/2" space gun for competition -- that's is fine. If it's a rugged environment like Afghanistan or Iraq, different considerations and there will be trade off's.
My SDMR set up was my choice for my purposes, and I believe mine is 1/2 MOA (or close to it). Headed back to the range with the Gieselle trigger now installed (and GI trigger out)..will post soon.
Oly Arms Ultramatch is very accurate, but the minimal SAAMI specs chamber (Clymer reamer)was not suitable for my purposes. I need a chamber that's accurate, but not too tight (from a reliability standpoint in a combat environment), and something that can handle higher 5.56mm load pressures. That's why I went with the Wylde chamber on my SDMR. Also some of the really accurate AR barrels mentioned are bull barrels and that's also unacceptable for me for combat applications, (bench rest ok) --if I have to carry it, I want it to be light. Weight is a whole different subject, but I've seen M4's w/ so much commercially marketed AR junk attached, their almost as heavy as an M2, lol.
..So when the individual does make the decision about 1/2" MOA capable upper, the obvious question they must also ask themselves is "what do you I want to do with this?" and is an important one. If it's benchrest, the 300 lb barrel with the heavy baseball bat scope -- not a problem. Or the 1/2" space gun for competition -- that's is fine. If it's a rugged environment like Afghanistan or Iraq, different considerations and there will be trade off's.
My SDMR set up was my choice for my purposes, and I believe mine is 1/2 MOA (or close to it). Headed back to the range with the Gieselle trigger now installed (and GI trigger out)..will post soon.
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