Specific questions about 375 Cheytac, easy answers

[gugubica]

OK, so I am getting ready to start a build. I have settled on a Lawton 8000 repeater and a Lawton barrel. I want to do a 375 setup and have searched and researched for weeks. It is my understanding that projos and twists are very much up in the air right now. So, here is what I don't know:

1. What are your recomendations for a barrel twist right now, with what is currently available? I know that in the future that 1:6.5 or 1:7 will most likely be the way to go and I can rebarrel if it becomes viable. But what about the projos that are readily available now? How long do you think a barrel is going to last?

2. What is the availablility of cartrige component right now? Can I get brass? Can I get Bullets? How many kidneys am I going to have to sell to buy stuff to feed this rifle?

3. And most importantly, should I dive in now or wait until this is all worked out? Should I just settle for a 408 now and see how this 375 pans out? Or should I just keep shooting .308 and play with 300WM and 7WSM and see where the new "ultra" chamberings lead in the future. I don't have time or resources to get in to this and participate in the "testing" phase.

Thanks all.

 

[.375Mojave]

Re: Specific questions about 375 Cheytac, easy answers

gugubica

You are going through the same process I have gone through. Some things I know for sure some things I am not sure anyone knows for sure.

I settled on Lawton as well and have no regrets. They have the experience and I doubt anyone will tell you you could do any better and they are great people to deal with as well.

1) Twist rate will be all about projectile selection and it starts to get fuzzy. I went with a 1:10 with the intent to shoot 350 SMK's and from what I am being told it will also handle the GS SP bullets and perform as well as anything out to 2,000 yds or better. Bobby Lawton can give you some real life info on the 350's and others. Barrel life seems like something in the 1500 round ballpark unless you titanium nitride the barrel (I opted to) and the current thinking is it may double the life of the tube. I dont know about you but 3,000 rounds is about a lifetime for me.

2) I have had no problems getting brass, dies, bullets or powder and will load my own. Lawton was very helpful there as well. I couldn't give you a per round price yet but assuming about $1.00 for SMK bullets and assuming 20 rounds of case life you will probably end up at $1.50 or something per reloaded round. Not that bad considering.

3) The projectile development and twist rate discussions are ongoing and I expect they will be for a long time. I thought about waiting but it became apparent that it is a little like waiting for computers to stop improving, not gonna happen.

You might want to look at the McRees Precision stocks. They eliminate some of the complications on bedding etc and are competitive with Manners and McMillan composites economically. Plus they look very cool.

I decided to build the gun, plan on shooting the available bullets and if projectile development hits a watershed moment, it isnt the end of the world to buy another $450 barrel. I assume I will be a few hundreds rounds of load development and ballistics learning curve down the road and it will have been worth doing. Assuming I shoot 2,000 rouinds and go to a new barrel the barrel swap will amount to another $.25 a round and what the hell.

That's my take on this but I am no expert, just trying to listen and pay attention. Good luck.

 

[gugubica]

Re: Specific questions about 375 Cheytac, easy answers

Thanks mojave, that helps a lot. I have a Lawton 8000 inbound, so it looks like I need to start accumulating componets!

 

[.375Mojave]

Re: Specific questions about 375 Cheytac, easy answers

My pleasure. It is a daunting task to sift through all the info. Noel Carlson is working on some very high BC projectiles and is way beyond my level of understanding but I think it is clear that his stuff is still coming together and I wanted to get started so I went with a conventional SS fluted Lawton barrel at 1:10.

It may well turn out that Noels bullets may be the absolute for extreme distance, but it appears the price will be that the 6.5 twist rate required will make solids your only option.

My take is that his projectiles may come into their own at ranges past where others run out of gas and may achieve degrees of accuracy that are better than most. Then you have to ask yourself if shooting past 2500 yards is something you are going to focus on. If so he may have the ultimate answer. If 2000 yard shooting is as far as you see yourself going there are a lot of options.

Again good luck and feel free to PM me if I can help in any way.

 

[Noel Carlson]

Re: Specific questions about 375 Cheytac, easy answers

Gugu, and 375,

There is nothing wrong with the choices you have made, or are contemplating, but there is some misunderstanding.

The changes coming to small arms are similar to computer development in only one respect, which is that greater capability is going to be available in smaller packages. You will be able to deliver the same energy, the same distance, with a much smaller charge weight, and with equal or better accuracy in adverse conditions.

That said, there is no fundamental innovation necessary to bring this change about. It is basically an exercise in implementation of existing technology within a field which has been neglected for 70+ years. Regarding projectiles, you will have the necessary information to reassure your choices within months, not years.

Mojave, you may want to check the specification on your barrel treatment. TiN will inhibit heat erosion, but there is no process which I am aware of which will permit vapor deposition within a bore. "Nitriding" (N2) will surface harden in precisely the same way carburization (C) does, but it has zero effect it mitigating throat wear. The only purpose served through use of this process, is in enabling the use of steel prjectiles.

Best,
Noel

 

[djd]

Re: Specific questions about 375 Cheytac, easy answers

I agree on all points Noel. And, Noel you are very correct about your observation about throat wear. I've extensively tested the Nitriding (N2) process, as well as all the carbon wrapped barrel processes. Can't say that I'd recommend either one for the cost you will incure.

Like 375Mohave said, "just get another $450.00 tube".

Dave

 

[.375Mojave]

Re: Specific questions about 375 Cheytac, easy answers

Noel,

I appreciate the heads up. I am led to believe that the it was a process of titanium deposition in the bore specifically for the purpose of resisting erosion in the throat, leading to extended bore life. I will look into the deposition process being proposed.

You also make a good point on the timeline. I did not intend to imply that the projectile development timeline I was referring to was a matter of years, just months. If Gugubica is willing to hold tight for a few months, there may be significant development data to draw from. I just wanted him to know that it is coming, but it isn't there yet. This cartridge has been around for years and I suspect the platform will be used for development for a long time. Waiting for the innovation to be "completed" might mean you never start.

For me, the path of getting up and running with a barrel that will produce good results at ranges up to 2,000 yds will be useful to me personally as I am working with a wildcat of my own design so there is a lot of information to be gained in the process for my own enlightenment.

Installing a second barrel which will be an LGT for the use of proprietary projectiles I consider to be a second phase for me. I would not automatically assume gugubica would want to go down that road but wanted him to know there were plenty of existing choices he could make now, but I am never building my last gun, just the next one.

Now you know why I closed with "I'm no expert". I always try to qualify any advice I give and try to make clear that much of this is a matter of opinion.

 

[.375Mojave]

Re: Specific questions about 375 Cheytac, easy answers

djd,

Since you have done extensive testing on the subject, what would you estimate SS barrel life to be with cartridges in the .375CT class since gugubica was asking. Irrespective of cost, would you say that nitriding had a positive effect on barrel life and if so could you quantify it?

Secondly, my take on the carbon wrap had to do with weight reduction and barrel heating and little to nothing to do with barrel life, or am I misinformed?

Thanks

 

[djd]

Re: Specific questions about 375 Cheytac, easy answers

No problem. The throat is what gets heated the most and is also where wear intially takes it's hold. It will start small, then start wearing in a clockwise direction (RH twist).

I too saw the magazine article about how carbon wrap dissipates heat quicker than steel. Matter of fact I have worked with those same guys. It does dissipate heat faster at the muzzle. The muzzle is not what you need to worry about, instead it's that throat and lead-in. Notice in that article, they alway took their temp. reading thru the muzzle end. I took all my readings in the throat area. Last I heard the "ABS" carbon wrap for our M200 barrel was $1200.00 for the wrap alone, and that was a year ago.

As far as the N2 process, I can only give my findings and those would not warrent me to spend the extra $'s there also.

Barrel life. Dean and I shot many 408 barrels out that went well over 4000 rounds. My current demo barrel has 2700+ rounds and is still sub-MOA.

For the 375 CheyTac, I can only guess the life limit. But my original 31 inch, .375 CT barrel for my M200 has 1783 rounds logged today, and it's still groups good enough for me to demo it.

I only change barrels when my groups spread.

djd

 

[.375Mojave]

Re: Specific questions about 375 Cheytac, easy answers

I appreciate it. If I get to 2,000 rounds I will call it a day.

Thanks

 

[BLAWTON]

Re: Specific questions about 375 Cheytac, easy ans

Barrel life on the 375 shooting match kings will be around 2500 to 3200 depending on how hard you push them. Shooting solids will be well over 2000 for sure. The solids wear on a barrel a little bit more per slightly higher chamber pressures but the difference is almost meaningless over the performance that you get out of them at the longer distances.

 

[762frmafr]

Re: Specific questions about 375 Cheytac, easy ans

i am seriously thinking about a 375 ct build and was wondering if we could resurrect this thread. thank you.

 

[Triggerfifty]

Re: Specific questions about 375 Cheytac, easy ans

Heck yeah, let's rock on this very fine cartridge. In fact, I think it's the supreme long range cartridge in existance.

Let's debate...

Trigger

 

[saojao]

Re: Specific questions about 375 Cheytac, easy ans

First post here, but I have been lurking for some time! After researching and reading through other members posts, I finally took the leap and ordered a Lawton 8000 action 40 MOA base, with a 32" CM barrel 1:11.5 twist. It should be at my FFLs next week. Now I just need to order a Mcree MODSS stock and I should be good to go! If anyone has any tips on reloading etc. I would really appreciate it as well...

 

[Triggerfifty]

Re: Specific questions about 375 Cheytac, easy ans

Not pushing my junk here, the bipod on that stock leaves alot to be desired. I'm offering an upgrade to the McCrees stock that puts a cheytac bipod on that stock.

PM me if you're interested.

Trig

 

[Mag 300]

Re: Specific questions about 375 Cheytac, easy ans

I recently traded for a Lawton single shot right bolt left post 32" barrel also lawton in a McMillan stock .
I agree with Triggerfifty
There is not a better long range cartridge .
Lawton is the way to go if your making a rifle there a great company and a great product. I also have a repeater in 338 Lawton

Waiting for new Premiers to get here 5x25 one for the 338 one for the 375