I used a Lothar walther barrel to build a .50BMG. I called them about fluting it on a spiral. They suggested not to do that, So I cut the flutes straight. I see a few spiral fluted rifles on here.Does this potentialy cause accuracy problems?
- Thread starter Elohim1
- Start date
Re: Spiral fluting Good or bad,doesnt matter ?
Unless it is done badly...sprial fluting won't have any impact on accuracy potential. Trust me...there are plenty of "spiral" or "twisted" fluted barrels floating around here that perform exceptionally well.
Like aggie said...likely that they don't offer spiral fluting as a service and thus, said "don't do it."
Unless it is done badly...sprial fluting won't have any impact on accuracy potential. Trust me...there are plenty of "spiral" or "twisted" fluted barrels floating around here that perform exceptionally well.
Like aggie said...likely that they don't offer spiral fluting as a service and thus, said "don't do it."
Re: Spiral fluting Good or bad,doesnt matter ?
Fluting in and of itself has nothing to do with accuracy. That gunsmith is more than likely incompetent and shouldn't touch your rifle.
Fluting in and of itself has nothing to do with accuracy. That gunsmith is more than likely incompetent and shouldn't touch your rifle.
Re: Spiral fluting Good or bad,doesnt matter ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fluting in and of itself has nothing to do with accuracy. That gunsmith is more than likely incompetent and shouldn't touch your rifle. </div></div>
I know it's typical internet protocol to write off any gunsmith and follow it up with "and he shouldn't be working on your rifle", but I've always heard that you shouldn't flute a button-rifled barrel after it's been stress relieved because you'll induce stress back into it. For all we know that could be the case here; a lot of the 50 barrels are button-rifled.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fluting in and of itself has nothing to do with accuracy. That gunsmith is more than likely incompetent and shouldn't touch your rifle. </div></div>
I know it's typical internet protocol to write off any gunsmith and follow it up with "and he shouldn't be working on your rifle", but I've always heard that you shouldn't flute a button-rifled barrel after it's been stress relieved because you'll induce stress back into it. For all we know that could be the case here; a lot of the 50 barrels are button-rifled.
Re: Spiral fluting Good or bad,doesnt matter ?
Spiral fluting is beautiful, but you can pretty much throw the
" lighter barrel and just as stiff " concept out the window. If you are running a can and care about poi shift {repeatable or not} may want to reconsider.
Spiral fluting is beautiful, but you can pretty much throw the
" lighter barrel and just as stiff " concept out the window. If you are running a can and care about poi shift {repeatable or not} may want to reconsider.
Re: Spiral fluting Good or bad,doesnt matter ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fluting in and of itself has nothing to do with accuracy. That gunsmith is more than likely incompetent and shouldn't touch your rifle. </div></div>
Well the "Gunsmith" was myself and I did the fluting and could have very easly spiraled it.I have been programming/machineing for a while. I did spiral the Bolt as you can see in the Pic. Also you will see the pics of the straight fluting.Primarily for astetics(hope thats spelled right). Anyway, probably should have spiraled it. Maybe next time.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fluting in and of itself has nothing to do with accuracy. That gunsmith is more than likely incompetent and shouldn't touch your rifle. </div></div>
Well the "Gunsmith" was myself and I did the fluting and could have very easly spiraled it.I have been programming/machineing for a while. I did spiral the Bolt as you can see in the Pic. Also you will see the pics of the straight fluting.Primarily for astetics(hope thats spelled right). Anyway, probably should have spiraled it. Maybe next time.
Re: Spiral fluting Good or bad,doesnt matter ?
I like the way your straight fluting looks. How does the rifle shoot?
I like the way your straight fluting looks. How does the rifle shoot?
Re: Spiral fluting Good or bad,doesnt matter ?
Did you do it on a mill or some sort of HAAS?
Did you do it on a mill or some sort of HAAS?
Re: Spiral fluting Good or bad,doesnt matter ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Elohim1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fluting in and of itself has nothing to do with accuracy. That gunsmith is more than likely incompetent and shouldn't touch your rifle. </div></div>
Well the "Gunsmith" was myself and I did the fluting and could have very easly spiraled it.I have been programming/machineing for a while. I did spiral the Bolt as you can see in the Pic. Also you will see the pics of the straight fluting.Primarily for astetics(hope thats spelled right). Anyway, probably should have spiraled it. Maybe next time.</div></div>
If the gunsmith was yourself, then who is "they" that you alluded to in your first post (that you conveniently edited)? Anyone that would read that would see the inference to a gunsmith.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Elohim1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I used a Lothar walther barrel to build a .50BMG. I called them about fluting it on a spiral. <span style="font-weight: bold">They suggested</span> not to do that, So I cut the flutes straight. I see a few spiral fluted rifles on here.Does this potentialy cause accuracy problems?
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Elohim1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fluting in and of itself has nothing to do with accuracy. That gunsmith is more than likely incompetent and shouldn't touch your rifle. </div></div>
Well the "Gunsmith" was myself and I did the fluting and could have very easly spiraled it.I have been programming/machineing for a while. I did spiral the Bolt as you can see in the Pic. Also you will see the pics of the straight fluting.Primarily for astetics(hope thats spelled right). Anyway, probably should have spiraled it. Maybe next time.</div></div>
If the gunsmith was yourself, then who is "they" that you alluded to in your first post (that you conveniently edited)? Anyone that would read that would see the inference to a gunsmith.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Elohim1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I used a Lothar walther barrel to build a .50BMG. I called them about fluting it on a spiral. <span style="font-weight: bold">They suggested</span> not to do that, So I cut the flutes straight. I see a few spiral fluted rifles on here.Does this potentialy cause accuracy problems?
</div></div>
Re: Spiral fluting Good or bad,doesnt matter ?
So then if spiral fluting is "bad", what's that say about the PGW Timberwolf & it's smaller brother the Coyote?
http://pgwdti.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1&Itemid=7
I figure, as with most things in life, if a fella/company is comfortable doing something in a particular manner & it works for them, then it works (so long as said SOP yields enough $ to keep'em afloat, with a good reputation intact). And to some degree asking them to go outside of the area of where their expertise is the greatest may be kind of like taking a Hemi muscle car to a Honda dealer for some high end tuning.
The basics are same, but... when you're aiming for that last couple percent of performance... If the wrench turners goof, the customer's unhappy, & the artist's reputation suffers. And I'm guessing such is why some smiths do the "experimenting" on projects of their own prior to offering the new products & techinques to their paying customers.
Just my $0.02
So then if spiral fluting is "bad", what's that say about the PGW Timberwolf & it's smaller brother the Coyote?
http://pgwdti.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1&Itemid=7
I figure, as with most things in life, if a fella/company is comfortable doing something in a particular manner & it works for them, then it works (so long as said SOP yields enough $ to keep'em afloat, with a good reputation intact). And to some degree asking them to go outside of the area of where their expertise is the greatest may be kind of like taking a Hemi muscle car to a Honda dealer for some high end tuning.
The basics are same, but... when you're aiming for that last couple percent of performance... If the wrench turners goof, the customer's unhappy, & the artist's reputation suffers. And I'm guessing such is why some smiths do the "experimenting" on projects of their own prior to offering the new products & techinques to their paying customers.
Just my $0.02
Re: Spiral fluting Good or bad,doesnt matter ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I know it's typical internet protocol to write off any gunsmith and follow it up with "and he shouldn't be working on your rifle", but I've always heard that you shouldn't flute a button-rifled barrel after it's been stress relieved because you'll induce stress back into it. For all we know that could be the case here; a lot of the 50 barrels are button-rifled.</div></div>
The information you should have gleaned from my post was the conditional "in and of itself", meaning that a non-fluted rifle is not more accurate than a fluted rifle. However, to your point you are correct about steps in fluting a button barrel. But remember, we weren't talking about the order to flute a barrel, or what type of barrel it is. We were only discussing whether or not "flutes" in general have an influence on accuracy.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I know it's typical internet protocol to write off any gunsmith and follow it up with "and he shouldn't be working on your rifle", but I've always heard that you shouldn't flute a button-rifled barrel after it's been stress relieved because you'll induce stress back into it. For all we know that could be the case here; a lot of the 50 barrels are button-rifled.</div></div>
The information you should have gleaned from my post was the conditional "in and of itself", meaning that a non-fluted rifle is not more accurate than a fluted rifle. However, to your point you are correct about steps in fluting a button barrel. But remember, we weren't talking about the order to flute a barrel, or what type of barrel it is. We were only discussing whether or not "flutes" in general have an influence on accuracy.
Re: Spiral fluting Good or bad,doesnt matter ?
i'm no engineer but i'd bet money that a spiral fluted barrel is not as stiff as a straight fluted barrel.
i'm no engineer but i'd bet money that a spiral fluted barrel is not as stiff as a straight fluted barrel.
Re: Spiral fluting Good or bad,doesnt matter ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i'm no engineer but i'd bet money that a spiral fluted barrel is not as stiff as a straight fluted barrel. </div></div>
I would tend to agree with you. I sent 3 unfluted sendero contour barrels to Kampfeld. I was trying to save a little weight as all three rifles were a little heavy. When I got all three back there was not even a noticeable POI change and the same loads worked, So I cannot say that it makes a bit of dirrerence.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i'm no engineer but i'd bet money that a spiral fluted barrel is not as stiff as a straight fluted barrel. </div></div>
I would tend to agree with you. I sent 3 unfluted sendero contour barrels to Kampfeld. I was trying to save a little weight as all three rifles were a little heavy. When I got all three back there was not even a noticeable POI change and the same loads worked, So I cannot say that it makes a bit of dirrerence.
Re: Spiral fluting Good or bad,doesnt matter ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Elohim1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fluting in and of itself has nothing to do with accuracy. That gunsmith is more than likely incompetent and shouldn't touch your rifle. </div></div>
Well the "Gunsmith" was myself and I did the fluting and could have very easly spiraled it.I have been programming/machineing for a while. I did spiral the Bolt as you can see in the Pic. Also you will see the pics of the straight fluting.Primarily for astetics(hope thats spelled right). Anyway, probably should have spiraled it. Maybe next time.</div></div>
The barrel manufacturer, lothar walther.
If the gunsmith was yourself, then who is "they" that you alluded to in your first post (that you conveniently edited)? Anyone that would read that would see the inference to a gunsmith.
The barrel manufacturers lothar walther
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Elohim1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I used a Lothar walther barrel to build a .50BMG. I called them about fluting it on a spiral. <span style="font-weight: bold">They suggested</span> not to do that, So I cut the flutes straight. I see a few spiral fluted rifles on here.Does this potentialy cause accuracy problems?
</div></div> </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Elohim1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fluting in and of itself has nothing to do with accuracy. That gunsmith is more than likely incompetent and shouldn't touch your rifle. </div></div>
Well the "Gunsmith" was myself and I did the fluting and could have very easly spiraled it.I have been programming/machineing for a while. I did spiral the Bolt as you can see in the Pic. Also you will see the pics of the straight fluting.Primarily for astetics(hope thats spelled right). Anyway, probably should have spiraled it. Maybe next time.</div></div>
The barrel manufacturer, lothar walther.
If the gunsmith was yourself, then who is "they" that you alluded to in your first post (that you conveniently edited)? Anyone that would read that would see the inference to a gunsmith.
The barrel manufacturers lothar walther
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Elohim1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I used a Lothar walther barrel to build a .50BMG. I called them about fluting it on a spiral. <span style="font-weight: bold">They suggested</span> not to do that, So I cut the flutes straight. I see a few spiral fluted rifles on here.Does this potentialy cause accuracy problems?
</div></div> </div></div>
Re: Spiral fluting Good or bad,doesnt matter ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stealth_man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Marty at Twistedbarrel.com does some interesting fluting and winds up building some very accurate rifles. They may or may not be as stiff, but for a hunting or varmint rifle, they do look good and save a bit of weight. </div></div>
if you were starting from scratch, i bet you cold find a barrel contour that is just as stiff and weighs the same as a spiral fluted barrel.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stealth_man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Marty at Twistedbarrel.com does some interesting fluting and winds up building some very accurate rifles. They may or may not be as stiff, but for a hunting or varmint rifle, they do look good and save a bit of weight. </div></div>
if you were starting from scratch, i bet you cold find a barrel contour that is just as stiff and weighs the same as a spiral fluted barrel.
Re: Spiral fluting Good or bad,doesnt matter ?
One of the steps that our local button rifled barrel makers do is to finish lap the barrel <span style="text-decoration: underline">after</span> fluting. This is an extra precaution, after fluting the barrel it is finished lap to spec so there is no fear of removing material through the fluting process and it pulling the bore out of spec. That and they stress relieve it twice. Whether or not fluting affects the bore it is an easy extra precaution. I have never had any accuracy issues shooting their fluted barrels.
If the barrel had already been finish lapped (button rifled) then i would understand why they would recommend not fluting it.
If i have my next barrel spiral fluted i would have Benchmark send it to Kampfield before it was finish lapped.
One of the steps that our local button rifled barrel makers do is to finish lap the barrel <span style="text-decoration: underline">after</span> fluting. This is an extra precaution, after fluting the barrel it is finished lap to spec so there is no fear of removing material through the fluting process and it pulling the bore out of spec. That and they stress relieve it twice. Whether or not fluting affects the bore it is an easy extra precaution. I have never had any accuracy issues shooting their fluted barrels.
If the barrel had already been finish lapped (button rifled) then i would understand why they would recommend not fluting it.
If i have my next barrel spiral fluted i would have Benchmark send it to Kampfield before it was finish lapped.
Re: Spiral fluting Good or bad,doesnt matter ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you do it on a mill or some sort of HAAS? </div></div>
A Mazak Lathe with milling capabilities.
The nut you see which tightens the hand guard, the slots in the handguard, The bolt, receiver, etc.,etc. all the lathe work was done on a Mazak.
I have a Mazak at my house, it does not have milling capabilities though.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you do it on a mill or some sort of HAAS? </div></div>
A Mazak Lathe with milling capabilities.
The nut you see which tightens the hand guard, the slots in the handguard, The bolt, receiver, etc.,etc. all the lathe work was done on a Mazak.
I have a Mazak at my house, it does not have milling capabilities though.
