Spotting your own shots

[longrange772]

Is there a calculation or ballpark rule of thumb for the amount of recoil energy that will generally allow you to be able to spot your own shots? I run a 7mm-08 standard hunting rifle but with bipod, scope, and some weight added to the stock runs around 14#. Also, has a muzzle brake. Pleasant to shoot and can stay on it all day without discomfort. I can consistently hit shots out to 800 with low wind (working on that ) The issue is, however, I generally cannot spot my shots. I know body position makes a difference and I do find I can get scope back on target fairly well at farther distances when I play around with body position, but not fast enough to make a good spotting call. Just wondering if I am still on the light side for the rifle or just need more trigger time at this point.

Using some recoil calculators, I come up with the following for my load:

Recoil Velocity:	6.2 ft/s	Recoil Energy:	8.4 ft•lbs
Recoil Impulse:	2.7 lb•s

 

[Newbie2020]

Yes

what barrel profile is your rifle? More weight in general would help some but more weight at the muzzle would help more.

 

[Steel head]

I can spot my shots with my 13# 260, my friends 15# 338 Norma, my 18# 7 saum and my 22# 338 edge.
Sounds like you need to work on your position and recoil control.
The online training Frank does here is excellent and there quite a few discussions on it here.
My 260 and 338 edge

 

[Rocketmandb]

I do find I can get scope back on target fairly well at farther distances when I play around with body position, but not fast enough to make a good spotting call.

If you're moving so much that you have to get back on target with a heavy, braked 7-08, then there are couple likely culprits:

1) You likely are tensing up your shoulder and not absorbing the recoil. This is causing positioning issues to get amplified and push you farther off target after the shot.

2) You might be zoomed in too much, which makes it tougher to self-spot.

I have no problem self-spotting with my 300 PRC, which probably exhibits higher recoil (depending on your brake) than your 7-08. It's all about having a soft shoulder and absorbing the recoil, combined with proper positioning.

 

[KnowNothing256]

One thing that instantly improved my ability to spot impacts was moving the buttpad inboard towards my centerline, and getting my shoulder more forward (when in the prone). My old stance was letting recoil push the buttpad down the "ramp" of my shoulder connection and outboard, leaving me always looking left of the target after recoil. Once I brought the buttpad in and moved my shoulder more aggressively forward, any ramp at all tends to be inboard, which is already blocked by my cheek weld and other architecture. Perfectly flat is best, of course, but since I'm not perfect, a little bias to the inside is a lot more repeatable for me.

But of course I defer to the much more experienced folks available on these forums.

 

[longrange772]

Yes

what barrel profile is your rifle? More weight in general would help some but more weight at the muzzle would help more.

I would say savage sporter profile. .585 at the muzzle.

 

[Newbie2020]

I shot a field course this weekend for the first time ever which required a fair bit of hiking canyons so I peeled off my chassis weights but also added a large suppressor. I was equally able to spot impacts as my standard heavy setup.

 

[308pirate]

Is there a calculation or ballpark rule of thumb for the amount of recoil energy that will generally allow you to be able to spot your own shots? I run a 7mm-08 standard hunting rifle but with bipod, scope, and some weight added to the stock runs around 14#. Also, has a muzzle brake. Pleasant to shoot and can stay on it all day without discomfort. I can consistently hit shots out to 800 with low wind (working on that ) The issue is, however, I generally cannot spot my shots. I know body position makes a difference and I do find I can get scope back on target fairly well at farther distances when I play around with body position, but not fast enough to make a good spotting call. Just wondering if I am still on the light side for the rifle or just need more trigger time at this point.

Using some recoil calculators, I come up with the following for my load:

Recoil Velocity:	6.2 ft/s	Recoil Energy:	8.4 ft•lbs
Recoil Impulse:	2.7 lb•s

Stop wasting your time with this rifle weight BS. At 14 lbs for a braked 7mm-08 there is one reason and one reason only for not being able to spot your shots even at 100 yards: your lack of proper recoil management. The root cause is likely a poor position behind the rifle.

If I can spot my own shots at 100 yds with a 12 lb, braked 308; a heavier rifle in a lighter recoiling cartridge is definitely doable.

I'm not even going to try to guess what exactly you're doing wrong unless you can post pictures (or better yet) video of you behind the rifle. There's a guy @sonichanxiao that did so and got a ton of useful advice because people could spot immediately major areas of improvement.

 

[Precision Underground]

IMO the vast majority of recoil management issues are due to various forms of this-

Rather than the shooter connecting his body to the ground and then connecting the rifle to his body, he connects the rifle to the ground and connects his body to the rifle.

There are 1000 little pieces that go into it but that’s the common root cause IMO.

 

[ma smith]

Spotting hits (steel) or misses (trace)?

 

[308pirate]

Spotting hits (steel) or misses (trace)?

Probably spotting hits on steel and dirt splash.

 

[madmikes262]

That is difficult.The positioning is key.Would like to hear more.

 

[longrange772]

Thanks for the feedback. Was definitely body position. I found two videos on youtube that were very helpful.

6.5 guys "Rebuilding Prone"


Phillip Velayo "Building the bridge"

 

[longrange772]

One thing that instantly improved my ability to spot impacts was moving the buttpad inboard towards my centerline, and getting my shoulder more forward (when in the prone). My old stance was letting recoil push the buttpad down the "ramp" of my shoulder connection and outboard, leaving me always looking left of the target after recoil. Once I brought the buttpad in and moved my shoulder more aggressively forward, any ramp at all tends to be inboard, which is already blocked by my cheek weld and other architecture. Perfectly flat is best, of course, but since I'm not perfect, a little bias to the inside is a lot more repeatable for me.

But of course I defer to the much more experienced folks available on these forums.

This was part of my issue. The Velayo video I posted helped me improve this area. Your moved shoulder forward advice helped after going more centerline.

 

[AllenOne1]

All that body position stuff they are feeding you is wrong. You need to add 10lbs, 15 would be better, buy a more expensive scope, no matter what glass you are running get something that costs more, then re-barrel with a heavy barrel in the 6mm bullet caliber of your choice it doesn't matter which one as long as it is a 6mm. After you get these basics done you can start fine tuning it, maybe a new chassis, new bipod, trigger, etc.

I know this is correct because I have been hearing this secret information for the last 2 years at the shooting range and here on this forum. Money buys precision.

Good luck!

 

[308pirate]

All that body position stuff they are feeding you is wrong. You need to add 10lbs, 15 would be better, buy a more expensive scope, no matter what glass you are running get something that costs more, then re-barrel with a heavy barrel in the 6mm bullet caliber of your choice it doesn't matter which one as long as it is a 6mm. After you get these basics done you can start fine tuning it, maybe a new chassis, new bipod, trigger, etc.

I know this is correct because I have been hearing this secret information for the last 2 years at the shooting range and here on this forum. Money buys precision.

Good luck!

You forgot the brake

 

[AllenOne1]

You forgot the brake

Oh yes thank you. A BIG brake preferably a scaled down howitzer model. The louder it is the better the recoil reduction.

 

[Packfan]

The best advice I have gotten on this forum is to get out and shoot (a lot). It can still be dicey for me to spot impacts at longer distances, but I am getting better with practice.

It is easy to get sucked into the heavy rifle/equipment race. I am guilty as I now have a rifle that is far heavier than I could have ever imagined a few years ago. I am concerned I may have gone too far and will be looking to trim weight on my next barrel (and it will probably not be a 6mm).

One of the my mentors taught me that marksmanship is a combination of skill, knowledge, and equipment. You cant get there without a good balance of each. The percentage of each for success is based on the individual, but I think the concept makes pretty good sense.