SPR Course
- Thread starter gmk202
- Start date
Re: SPR Course
I would be leery of anyone offering an "open enrollment" SPR class. When I hear someone say, "SPR", I assume they are talking about a Mk12 Mod1. Though bring together a group of people from various agencies and/or civilians the "SPR" turns into a variety of weapon systems. So to me an open enrollment SPR class is going to spin its wheels trying to sort out a lot of problems, both equipment and ability of the shooter.
So I would recommend you attend a basic carbine class with your SPR and attend a precision rifle class with your SPR learn to apply the techniques of both classes to your SPR. Really that is what an SPR needs to do, be precise with in 600 yards and still be able to fight somewhat like a carbine from 100 yards to contact distance. To attend that open enrollment SPR class would more than likely not spend enough time on either discipline (precision rifle and carbine) and leaving you with a lot of un answered questions and repetitions.
I hate to sound like a broken record but Rifles Only is going to be able to fit your needs. Jacob and Frank have tons of experience on both sides of the fence. I would email or call them but I bet they would welcome you into the Precision Rifle class and be able to give you a bit more insight on the SPR as a precision weapon and as a close in fighting weapon.
Before anyone tries to point the bias finger... Yes I am affiliated with Rifles Only but I trained there several times before I ever did any work for them.
I would be leery of anyone offering an "open enrollment" SPR class. When I hear someone say, "SPR", I assume they are talking about a Mk12 Mod1. Though bring together a group of people from various agencies and/or civilians the "SPR" turns into a variety of weapon systems. So to me an open enrollment SPR class is going to spin its wheels trying to sort out a lot of problems, both equipment and ability of the shooter.
So I would recommend you attend a basic carbine class with your SPR and attend a precision rifle class with your SPR learn to apply the techniques of both classes to your SPR. Really that is what an SPR needs to do, be precise with in 600 yards and still be able to fight somewhat like a carbine from 100 yards to contact distance. To attend that open enrollment SPR class would more than likely not spend enough time on either discipline (precision rifle and carbine) and leaving you with a lot of un answered questions and repetitions.
I hate to sound like a broken record but Rifles Only is going to be able to fit your needs. Jacob and Frank have tons of experience on both sides of the fence. I would email or call them but I bet they would welcome you into the Precision Rifle class and be able to give you a bit more insight on the SPR as a precision weapon and as a close in fighting weapon.
Before anyone tries to point the bias finger... Yes I am affiliated with Rifles Only but I trained there several times before I ever did any work for them.
Re: SPR Course
In the meantime while you are course shopping, I would submit you can sort a lot of it out by coming out to competitions as a training exercise. We broke off a separate class for SDM/DMR rifles in our regular precision matches. These guns are a LOT of fun, inexpensive to shoot, and at mid-distance out to 600Y can be mighty challenging.
Defined as any scoped semi-auto .223, DMR's fire at the same targets & distances as larger calibers, but because of increased difficulty the DMR gets (usually) a slightly higher round count/more time, and is only scored against other DMR's.
Just throwing it out there as an option to help you get in communion with the platform.
--Fargo007
In the meantime while you are course shopping, I would submit you can sort a lot of it out by coming out to competitions as a training exercise. We broke off a separate class for SDM/DMR rifles in our regular precision matches. These guns are a LOT of fun, inexpensive to shoot, and at mid-distance out to 600Y can be mighty challenging.
Defined as any scoped semi-auto .223, DMR's fire at the same targets & distances as larger calibers, but because of increased difficulty the DMR gets (usually) a slightly higher round count/more time, and is only scored against other DMR's.
Just throwing it out there as an option to help you get in communion with the platform.
--Fargo007
Re: SPR Course
Rifles Only will be conducting a Semi automatic Precision RIfle course in ten late summer or early fall
Rifles Only will be conducting a Semi automatic Precision RIfle course in ten late summer or early fall
Re: SPR Course
It may be wise for you to take a look at the curriculum offered before making any assumptions based on past experiences.
It may be wise for you to take a look at the curriculum offered before making any assumptions based on past experiences.
Re: SPR Course
Caylen,
I looked at the curriculum Magpul Dynamics lists on the website and that was why I posted my opinion. To <span style="text-decoration: underline">me</span> it reads as semi auto precision rifle course should. Maybe I am caught up in the title of the class and it is just good marketing. My opinion is based off of my experience in the Corps and how we trained with and deployed the M14DMR. Specifically I am talking about the use of the platform at distances less than 100 yards.
I think the role of an SPR/DMR is rather broad considering the the broad types of weapons being used today. For example the early SAM-Rs were just M16A4 and had ACOGs on them, they were rarely able to do precision work out to 600, but 300 and closer the precision was obtainable. I helped out with a class at Camp Perry a few years ago with a bunch of DMs from NG and USMC. There were vast differences in what the weapons could do regardless of who was driving it. The students also requested we spend some extra time training less than 100 yards, their down range feed back was they were not prepared for the closer engagements with the optics they were using.
Again, my opinion but call the class what it is, Semi Auto Precision Rifle.
Caylen,
I looked at the curriculum Magpul Dynamics lists on the website and that was why I posted my opinion. To <span style="text-decoration: underline">me</span> it reads as semi auto precision rifle course should. Maybe I am caught up in the title of the class and it is just good marketing. My opinion is based off of my experience in the Corps and how we trained with and deployed the M14DMR. Specifically I am talking about the use of the platform at distances less than 100 yards.
I think the role of an SPR/DMR is rather broad considering the the broad types of weapons being used today. For example the early SAM-Rs were just M16A4 and had ACOGs on them, they were rarely able to do precision work out to 600, but 300 and closer the precision was obtainable. I helped out with a class at Camp Perry a few years ago with a bunch of DMs from NG and USMC. There were vast differences in what the weapons could do regardless of who was driving it. The students also requested we spend some extra time training less than 100 yards, their down range feed back was they were not prepared for the closer engagements with the optics they were using.
Again, my opinion but call the class what it is, Semi Auto Precision Rifle.
Re: SPR Course
An issue that you'll come into is that SPR-geared courses are very specific and specialized due to the roles SPRs can fill.
If you eventually decide to travel, GPS Defense offers an SPR course that is supposed to be excellent. I was supposed to go this year, but it fell through due to scheduling issues. They train SEALs and Rangers, as well as other military personnel in their contract courses. However, they offer standard open enrollment courses that are based around the Mk12 and AR SPR platform. They train to shoot out to 900yds.
http://www.sniperschool.com/courses
An issue that you'll come into is that SPR-geared courses are very specific and specialized due to the roles SPRs can fill.
If you eventually decide to travel, GPS Defense offers an SPR course that is supposed to be excellent. I was supposed to go this year, but it fell through due to scheduling issues. They train SEALs and Rangers, as well as other military personnel in their contract courses. However, they offer standard open enrollment courses that are based around the Mk12 and AR SPR platform. They train to shoot out to 900yds.
http://www.sniperschool.com/courses
Re: SPR Course
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cowboy_bravo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Caylen,
I looked at the curriculum Magpul Dynamics lists on the website and that was why I posted my opinion. To <span style="text-decoration: underline">me</span> it reads as semi auto precision rifle course should. Maybe I am caught up in the title of the class and it is just good marketing. My opinion is based off of my experience in the Corps and how we trained with and deployed the M14DMR. Specifically I am talking about the use of the platform at distances less than 100 yards.
I think the role of an SPR/DMR is rather broad considering the the broad types of weapons being used today. For example the early SAM-Rs were just M16A4 and had ACOGs on them, they were rarely able to do precision work out to 600, but 300 and closer the precision was obtainable. I helped out with a class at Camp Perry a few years ago with a bunch of DMs from NG and USMC. There were vast differences in what the weapons could do regardless of who was driving it. The students also requested we spend some extra time training less than 100 yards, their down range feed back was they were not prepared for the closer engagements with the optics they were using.
Again, my opinion but call the class what it is, Semi Auto Precision Rifle. </div></div>
As far as the course curriculum is concerned it is designed to be part of a progression of training from the Dynamic Carbine 1 and 2 ultimately ending with the Precision Rifle 1 and 2 courses. It wouldn't be accurate to consider the course a Semi-Automatic Precision Rifle course, as there are many semi-auto precision weapons out there capable of sub MOA accuracy at and past 1000 yards, so therefore those weapons are more than welcome in the Precision Rifle 1 and 2 curriculum.
In terms of utilizing a Special Purpose Rifle platform within 100 yards, yes a shooter must train with their chosen optic at those closer ranges in order to maintain proficiency. Those drills should be covered within a Carbine course and the weapons manipulation skills should carry over as the platform will most likely be identical in mechanics with the exception of the optic.
The original SAM wasn't just an M16A4 with an ACOG, it was a highly modified 5.56 upper built by Precision Weapons Section. I participated in a limited users test of that weapon system in Quantico during the summer of 2002. There were a plethora of optics mounted on these weapons and with the proper ammunition could consistently produce one MOA accuracy out to 800 yards. For those that could call wind, we consistently put rounds on target at 1K yards with the 77 grain Match ammo.
The reason the Marine Corps scrapped the SAM program for <span style="text-decoration: underline">that particular weapon system</span> was that it could only produce precision results with that Match grade ammunition. This proved to become a logistical nightmare to specifically outfit those Marines issued a SAM with that ammo. Eventually the Corps decided to outfit M16A4's with ACOG's, calling that a SAM. Yes, with M855 the A4/ACOG can produce precise results out to 300, maybe 500 in the hands of a skilled shooter. At best, it was a band-aid. Regular infantry Marines hardly got any decent CQB style training with the exception of MOUT, but that hardly scratches the surface of the mechanics of surgical shooting with a carbine. Those that were part of the MSPF Trailer Platoon were the only ones that received that specialized training.
As for the M14DMR, close-in work is possible with that Leupold optic, but how practical is that? Kind of the same concept as utilizing the M40A5 as a primary weapon while attempting to operate in a dynamic environment...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cowboy_bravo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Caylen,
I looked at the curriculum Magpul Dynamics lists on the website and that was why I posted my opinion. To <span style="text-decoration: underline">me</span> it reads as semi auto precision rifle course should. Maybe I am caught up in the title of the class and it is just good marketing. My opinion is based off of my experience in the Corps and how we trained with and deployed the M14DMR. Specifically I am talking about the use of the platform at distances less than 100 yards.
I think the role of an SPR/DMR is rather broad considering the the broad types of weapons being used today. For example the early SAM-Rs were just M16A4 and had ACOGs on them, they were rarely able to do precision work out to 600, but 300 and closer the precision was obtainable. I helped out with a class at Camp Perry a few years ago with a bunch of DMs from NG and USMC. There were vast differences in what the weapons could do regardless of who was driving it. The students also requested we spend some extra time training less than 100 yards, their down range feed back was they were not prepared for the closer engagements with the optics they were using.
Again, my opinion but call the class what it is, Semi Auto Precision Rifle. </div></div>
As far as the course curriculum is concerned it is designed to be part of a progression of training from the Dynamic Carbine 1 and 2 ultimately ending with the Precision Rifle 1 and 2 courses. It wouldn't be accurate to consider the course a Semi-Automatic Precision Rifle course, as there are many semi-auto precision weapons out there capable of sub MOA accuracy at and past 1000 yards, so therefore those weapons are more than welcome in the Precision Rifle 1 and 2 curriculum.
In terms of utilizing a Special Purpose Rifle platform within 100 yards, yes a shooter must train with their chosen optic at those closer ranges in order to maintain proficiency. Those drills should be covered within a Carbine course and the weapons manipulation skills should carry over as the platform will most likely be identical in mechanics with the exception of the optic.
The original SAM wasn't just an M16A4 with an ACOG, it was a highly modified 5.56 upper built by Precision Weapons Section. I participated in a limited users test of that weapon system in Quantico during the summer of 2002. There were a plethora of optics mounted on these weapons and with the proper ammunition could consistently produce one MOA accuracy out to 800 yards. For those that could call wind, we consistently put rounds on target at 1K yards with the 77 grain Match ammo.
The reason the Marine Corps scrapped the SAM program for <span style="text-decoration: underline">that particular weapon system</span> was that it could only produce precision results with that Match grade ammunition. This proved to become a logistical nightmare to specifically outfit those Marines issued a SAM with that ammo. Eventually the Corps decided to outfit M16A4's with ACOG's, calling that a SAM. Yes, with M855 the A4/ACOG can produce precise results out to 300, maybe 500 in the hands of a skilled shooter. At best, it was a band-aid. Regular infantry Marines hardly got any decent CQB style training with the exception of MOUT, but that hardly scratches the surface of the mechanics of surgical shooting with a carbine. Those that were part of the MSPF Trailer Platoon were the only ones that received that specialized training.
As for the M14DMR, close-in work is possible with that Leupold optic, but how practical is that? Kind of the same concept as utilizing the M40A5 as a primary weapon while attempting to operate in a dynamic environment...
