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Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

Kasumi

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 14, 2008
349
12
New York, USA
Just received a voice mail message from Customer Service at Springfield Armory, they are REFUSING to sell me a 5rd magazine because I live in New York. He stated I know the new limit is 7rds for NY but our Lawyers have advised us not to sell to New York.
Great job SA, way to throw us NY’ers under the bus. Perfectly legal sale, he even acknowledged that fact but will not sell me the NY State less than 7rd compliant magazine.
Hey a big F.U. to Springfield Armory!
And all the other companies that dumped us then only to issue an apology e-mail.
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kasumi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just received a voice mail message from Customer Service at Springfield Armory, they are REFUSING to sell me a 5rd magazine because I live in New York. He stated I know the new limit is 7rds for NY but our Lawyers have advised us not to sell to New York.
Great job SA, way to throw us NY’ers under the bus. Perfectly legal sale, he even acknowledged that fact but will not sell me the NY State less than 7rd compliant magazine.
Hey a big F.U. to Springfield Armory!
And all the other companies that dumped us then only to issue an apology e-mail.
</div></div>

Looks like you have another reason to move out of that Commie shit hole.
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

Talk about being overly cautious. 5 rounds is less than 7; I don't see how that could cause a legal issue for them.

5>7

Either way, I feel for you in NY. Told me wife when she was done with her oncology fellowship that it was one of the 6 states you could not pay me a million dollars a year to live in.

I'd honestly suggest moving.
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

Is this a way that SA is boycotting NY perhaps? I read that when the head of the IL senate tried passing a bill to ban guns completely 2 weeks ago ( in IL of course ) that SA and a custom mftr called the senate up and said to tell them when the ban goes into effect so they have time to pack up and leave the state. The bill failed. Funny how one of most anti-gun states produces most of the AR-15s.
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

Like Kasumi, I'm here in New York too & not a happy camper. But, you wait; you know those slimy politicians in other states (mainly, the liberal eastern states) are going to try to out do Cuomo.
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

Don't trash S/A because of what states and Fed. Gov. vague rules and laws that they are throwing around at the present time. It all comes back to one of 2 things their attorneys have advised them to avoid states with new restrictions until the laws get sorted out OR they may have taken a lesson from Ronnie Barrett when he refused any and all sales and service to ALL of California's L/E Depts. and Cali. Government agencies when Cal. decided to ban all 50BMG sales and ownership several years back. Hell even the Military ( Seals, Marines) had to take the weapons in through other channels for repair and sales. I know it sucks for all of ya'll trapped in these banned zones but I myself applaud S/A and any other Companies that stand up to unjust and ridiculous laws that restrict your freedoms and rights. Bro if you need a 5rd. M1A mag PM me and I will give you one just to fuck with N.Y. restrictions. It all starts with just 1 Company or person that has sack enough to stand up for what is right that may turn into a landslide of a shitstorm to change unjust rules and laws. EITHER STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS OR LAY DOWN AND TAKE IT UP THE ASS !! I myself haven't ever been one for laying down!!
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

I hear ya, the frustrating part is the Dude acknowledges the 5 rd is legal to sell and have in NY but WONT sell it to me??

I ain't one for running to a new State, crying NY is unfair, the fight is just beginning in NY.

Although I did find it humorous that Texas invited us law abiding gun owners in NY to move to Texas.
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

Guys remember that it takes time to understand new laws. It couldbe that they have instructed thier sales reps to put a moratorium on sales to NY while they figure out what it takes to be compliant under King Cuomo's new law.

The legal guys have to work with the product guys and make an up/down decision on each one based on how the new law gets interpreted into agency-specific rules.
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

I wouldn't be pissed at Springfield, I'd be pissed at NY. If I were Springfield I wouldn't sell anything to NY, California, or DC.
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sgt. 0811</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wouldn't be pissed at Springfield, I'd be pissed at NY. If I were Springfield I wouldn't sell anything to NY, California, or DC. </div></div>

Yeah thanks for the "Support"

A 5 round magazine is LEGAL here in NY today and it will still be LEGAL here in one year even if this bullshit law is not overturned or modified.

Springfield and there Attorneys can go fuck themselves.
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MAGUA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Springfield and there Attorneys can go fuck themselves.</div></div>

He says... right up until he ever gets into business himself and finds out just how unpleasant the courts can be if you mis-interpret new laws. Or find out that some ass-hat agency decides to "interpret" new laws into even more restrictive agency-level rules.
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MAGUA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Springfield and there Attorneys can go fuck themselves.</div></div>

He says... right up until he ever gets into business himself and finds out just how unpleasant the courts can be if you mis-interpret new laws. Or find out that some ass-hat agency decides to "interpret" new laws into even more restrictive agency-level rules. </div></div>

Misinterpret WHAT , 5 round magazines are 100% Legal here in NY. What part of 100% Legal don't you and Springfield understand ?
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

So while we're on the topic, a local shop has a stack (big stack) of XDM .40 mags does anyone know if these will work in a XD-40 Sub?

If the OP wants one some I can go buy and ship them to NY because there's no restriction (yet) on me doing that and I'm going back tomorrow to pick up some more primers anyway but they're all 10+ round.
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

The Big Companies need to put up and do a "Barret" Refuse to sell ANY of their products to any of the states Law Enforcement agencies in those states.

Glock; S&W; Sig: Colt ect maybe we aught to start a campaign to those firearms companies and do to them what Feinstien wants to do to us "dry up" their supplies of arms that their state legislators would deny to honest citizens
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kasumi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just received a voice mail message from Customer Service at Springfield Armory, they are REFUSING to sell me a 5rd magazine because I live in New York. He stated I know the new limit is 7rds for NY but our Lawyers have advised us not to sell to New York.
Great job SA, way to throw us NY’ers under the bus. Perfectly legal sale, he even acknowledged that fact but will not sell me the NY State less than 7rd compliant magazine.
Hey a big F.U. to Springfield Armory!
And all the other companies that dumped us then only to issue an apology e-mail.
</div></div>

or you could quit supporting that commie shithole and move to a free state.

I have no sympathy for anyone in the commie states, you chose to stay knowing how loony the fucks who run them are.
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys remember that it takes time to understand new laws. It couldbe that they have instructed thier sales reps to put a moratorium on sales to NY while they figure out what it takes to be compliant under King Cuomo's new law.

The legal guys have to work with the product guys and make an up/down decision on each one based on how the new law gets interpreted into agency-specific rules. </div></div>

+1. Springfield is just covering their ass until laws are interpreted and set in stone. I'm sure there's a few vendors that could help you out.
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is this a way that SA is boycotting NY perhaps? </div></div>

Just like Ronnie Barrett boycotts Kalifornia. Think I'll order something from SA to show my support.

NY politicos can go **** themselves.
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gofaster23</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys remember that it takes time to understand new laws. It couldbe that they have instructed thier sales reps to put a moratorium on sales to NY while they figure out what it takes to be compliant under King Cuomo's new law.

The legal guys have to work with the product guys and make an up/down decision on each one based on how the new law gets interpreted into agency-specific rules. </div></div>

+1. Springfield is just covering their ass until laws are interpreted and set in stone. I'm sure there's a few vendors that could help you out. </div></div>

No offense but what the fuck are you and Oddball six smoking ?

5 round magazines are LEGAL there is nothing to fucking INTERPRET.
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MAGUA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

No offense but what the fuck are you and Oddball six smoking ?

5 round magazines are LEGAL there is nothing to fucking INTERPRET.</div></div>

Agreed, but just because you feel like this one specific product is legal doesn't mean that a given supplier has completed thier process to agree.

Companies like SA don't want to lose money being sued.

So they say "ok, lets make a business decision on whether we want to put forward certain products in this new environment". Until that decision is made, they don't sell. Its a pretty basic thing that has been a risk assessment feature of every business that I have ever seen deal with a newly changing regulatory environment.

You don't just truck forward and assume you know it all without the lawyers at your back, because thats how you lose millions of dollars in fines and penalties. All it takes is one product that ISNT ok with the law being sold to ONE person in the state and Cuomo and his royal guard will drag the offending company through the news and go after every last bit of anything they can get, not to mention the cost of actually paying people to represent you, etc.

So yeah, you want a 5 round magazine. Thats nice. I dont give two shits about your $40 for that magazine if by turning you away for a few days I can make sure one of my low paid call takers doesn't earn me a million dollar liability plus court fees and attorney costs.

I may even feel strong enough as a business owner to choose not to do business in that environment at all. Why expose myself to the liability of a shifting regulatory environment when I don't support the rules anyway?

Incidentally, on the subject of interpretation, did you know that two days ago it became illegal to unlock your phone? No law changed. The only thing that changed was interpretation and regulatory guidance from the librarian of congress. Laws are enforced by agencies, and often codified in rules that the agency responsible for action or enforcement tries to setup to provide better guidance on how the law applies in an area. This process happens because in theory by issuing rules, they give you specific enough guidance to avoid having any reason to "not know". The reality is that sometimes the guidance or rulemaking doesnt line up exactly with the law. Its that gray area between the actual rule and the law, where sometimes the rulemaking is even over-reaching, that can cause all manner of headaches. Happens with federal agencies all the time.
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">or you could quit supporting that commie shithole and move to a free state.

I have no sympathy for anyone in the commie states, you chose to stay knowing how loony the fucks who run them are. </div></div>

Got that right.
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

yeah and all you fuckers who say that shit are amazed when the libs from our states make it to congress and push their agendas on you. Its all for one buddy or we all fall. I have no choice but to live here and i deal with it.
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BoltOveride</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kasumi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just received a voice mail message from Customer Service at Springfield Armory, they are REFUSING to sell me a 5rd magazine because I live in New York. He stated I know the new limit is 7rds for NY but our Lawyers have advised us not to sell to New York.
Great job SA, way to throw us NY’ers under the bus. Perfectly legal sale, he even acknowledged that fact but will not sell me the NY State less than 7rd compliant magazine.
Hey a big F.U. to Springfield Armory!
And all the other companies that dumped us then only to issue an apology e-mail.
</div></div>

or you could quit supporting that commie shithole and move to a free state.

I have no sympathy for anyone in the commie states, you chose to stay knowing how loony the fucks who run them are. </div></div>

Thats out of line. This crap didnt happen over night. I know Kasumi and hes a stand up guy. Happens to have a job with good retirement comeing up in a few and cant just quit and move....yet.
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

I also live in NY and I don't blame any company for not doing business in this state. After what Cuomo perpetrated on the public, with the help of the legislature, who can blame them. Midway stopped all orders to NY for about two weeks, until they sorted out the new law. Hell I've read the entire law and their explanation web page and I'm still confused.
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thats out of line. This crap didnt happen over night. I know Kasumi and hes a stand up guy. Happens to have a job with good retirement comeing up in a few and cant just quit and move....yet. </div></div>

He must work for wall street... who else would blame SA for the shit hole things NY does? DUH... On the other hand maybe SA should move since they also live in enemy territory.
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

Springfield Armory is doing nothing wrong here. Your state is one of the few that screws them over. SA and everyone else needs to stop doing business with NY PERIOD. No citizen sales, no LEO sales
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

The reason they may be holding off for now is because it would be an internet sale. It is my understanding that only applies to ammunition, but they are probably holding off until their attorneys give them the go a head.
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

If possible, move to a free state. If not possible, get ready for more of what you found to come...
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

No offense but what the fuck are you and Oddball six smoking ?

5 round magazines are LEGAL there is nothing to fucking INTERPRET. [/quote]

Dude think about what you are saying here! What do you think the big fight over our 2A rights is all about? It is legal for me to have a gun and the 2A states that, with NOTHING TO INTERPRET but yet look at what we are fighting for and what NY is doing!!! I agree what the other people are saying when they are standing up for SA!
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yeah and all you fuckers who say that shit are amazed when the libs from our states make it to congress and push their agendas on you. Its all for one buddy or we all fall. I have no choice but to live here and i deal with it. </div></div>

Joe I understand completely your situation, Im lucky in that regard as the army dropped my ass where I am and I liked it. But for those who do have a choice, I stand by what I said. The only thing these fucking politicians understand is losing their place at the trough, and the best way to do that IMO is to GTFO of these commie states in droves.

I could be wrong, but nothing else short of armed revolt seems to have a chance of doing a damn thing, and I really dont think we've reached the point of advocating taking up arms yet.
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

I recall some of the folks in charge of Springfield Armory doing time because of a "misinterpretation of what was legal".

Once bitten twice shy?
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys remember that it takes time to understand new laws. It couldbe that they have instructed thier sales reps to put a moratorium on sales to NY while they figure out what it takes to be compliant under King Cuomo's new law.

The legal guys have to work with the product guys and make an up/down decision on each one based on how the new law gets interpreted into agency-specific rules. </div></div>

+1 on this,

I understand the OP being frustrated.
Think of it this way though, its not like NY is going give S/A a pass if there is an honest mistake... they are going to perp walk the whole company in the media and if they can to judges. Not to mention the fines NY will try to enforce.

Sad to say but it's probably cheaper to just not sell right now.


 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BoltOveride</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kasumi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just received a voice mail message from Customer Service at Springfield Armory, they are REFUSING to sell me a 5rd magazine because I live in New York. He stated I know the new limit is 7rds for NY but our Lawyers have advised us not to sell to New York.
Great job SA, way to throw us NY’ers under the bus. Perfectly legal sale, he even acknowledged that fact but will not sell me the NY State less than 7rd compliant magazine.
Hey a big F.U. to Springfield Armory!
And all the other companies that dumped us then only to issue an apology e-mail.
</div></div>

or you could quit supporting that commie shithole and move to a free state.

I have no sympathy for anyone in the commie states, you chose to stay knowing how loony the fucks who run them are. </div></div>

Thats out of line. This crap didnt happen over night. I know Kasumi and hes a stand up guy. Happens to have a job with good retirement comeing up in a few and cant just quit and move....yet. </div></div>

Thats true, it didn't happen overnight, although it was damn near close to it. Granted I'm no longer in NY but I still have family and other connections there and I didn't hear a peep about this until the day before it was signed into law by that douche bag. I second you on Kasumi being a good dude, shot with him a number of years ago (2008?) down with Greg L and a few others, good times.

But like Switchblade mentions, even if the manufacturers don't want to play ball until they get their legal ducks in a row, there are plenty of other perfectly legal (and some less so) alternative routes to get what you need. Same way here in CA, need 30 round mags? piece of cake, need a pistol that isn't on that gay roster? might take a bit longer but still pretty easy, especially if you have LEO friends or family out of state. And in the proper context, all 100% perfectly legal with these gay ass laws.
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

Part of my intent was to make members on the HIDE aware of how companies are responding to situations like this. Many of you will be next, Springfield is not to blame, Cuomo/NY lawmakers are. Secondly yes I was venting my frustration at the foolish response by SA, which they are free to do and may end up reversing their decision just as MIDWAY did and I applaud them for it. Below is part of the e-mail sent by MIDWAY. Let’s hope SA can catch up too.
Dear Valued Customer,
Now that we've had time to read through the law several times and have received some answers from the NY State Police, we can fix our mistakes. Effective immediately, we've lifted our newly imposed New York restrictions on ammunition, reloading components and magazines with a capacity of 8 to 10-rounds. Now, unfortunately, we'll have to reinstate these when each portion of the law goes into effect (April 15, 2013 for magazines and January 15, 2014 for ammo). And, we'll have to reinstate these restrictions about 2-weeks prior to the effective dates to make sure Customers have these products prior to those dates (clarified by an attorney for the NY State Police).
One last thing, if you had a backorder for these products and we cancelled it, we're in the process of contacting you to see if you want this backorder recreated.
Again, we're sorry for any inconvenience we've caused you. Please understand, everything we do is intended to be in the best interest of our Customers.
Thanks for Your Business!

Switchblade; yep I'm good....the HIDE takes care of own.

Toughguy; damn….you are intuitive, just like a woman. I’m all Wall Street, BMW driving, Italian suit wearing, Frappuccino sipping Yuppie. Maybe you should be Toughgirl…….
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

CMP just sent a Sales Update, they are squared away ready to sell to NY, way to go CMP !
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NorthernBorn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kasumi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just received a voice mail message from Customer Service at Springfield Armory, they are REFUSING to sell me a 5rd magazine because I live in New York. He stated I know the new limit is 7rds for NY but our Lawyers have advised us not to sell to New York.
Great job SA, way to throw us NY’ers under the bus. Perfectly legal sale, he even acknowledged that fact but will not sell me the NY State less than 7rd compliant magazine.
Hey a big F.U. to Springfield Armory!
And all the other companies that dumped us then only to issue an apology e-mail.
</div></div>

Looks like you have another reason to move out of that Commie shit hole. </div></div>
I agree. Another reason to leave that garbage state.
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So while we're on the topic, a local shop has a stack (big stack) of XDM .40 mags does anyone know if these will work in a XD-40 Sub?
</div></div>

No they will not work. XDm magazines are slightly wider. I would like one though! :)
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

Hey I am all for 10 round compliant mags...for my single stack .45! Shoot, 10 > 7 every day! All else; screw you, I LIKE big fat 30 round mags and 20 round mags, and if the kids ever get enough money to fill that dang Beta for the AR, well, they will have fun for a few minutes each to the tune of around $140 each
 
Re: Springfield Armory Rufused to sell

I just bought a Spirngfield M1A getting ready to send in for the Mags offered with the cupon sent with the new rifles. I Hope Springfield is taking the Barrett Stance with this I hate it for the People of NY I know that 99% of the state is goverend by the other 1% Up state should dis own new york city and govern themselves.