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Rifle Scopes Steiner Needs Thinner Reticle...

S

Sniper260

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 22, 2013
483
2
I know its been said before a long time ago... I never knew exactly what people were talking about. After I've put hours of time behind my
Steiner 5-25X56 military MSR I've really started to notice how I wish the reticle was a little thinner where I could hold on very small targets out at longer ranges. A 5 inch steel gong out at a long distance ends up getting covered in the cross hairs and it really aggravating.

But when I chalk it up we all know scopes are made specifically and purposely for certain things. Shooting my human silhouette target out at whatever range I have no problem with, and thats what the scope is made to shoot. If I want to target shoot that one inch circle at 500 yards I guess I just need to get a good target scope, and another rifle! Just a little vent.. But I wouldn't mind still if it was a tad thinner... It would make the scope more shootable for small small targets...
 
Spoke to a Steiner rep at shot show about the very same thing and he told me that they are looking at the msr-2 reticle. However they want a few modifications to it.

They were hoping to have something out later this year.
 
I have the same scope, and let me tell you, that same reticle at 5x all but disappears. With that much mag. variation it would be tough to get something that would be ideal across all magnifications, let alone usable at lower mags. If you are on 25x all the time then I'd imagine you might want something a little thinner. Such is the tradeoff with an FFP scope. It would be cool to have an MSR reticle with a circle/very fine dot combo at the center rather than crosshairs. The circle could be 2 mils in diameter and the rest of the mils could be hash marks.

I Just googled MSR-2, sort of the same idea but not exactly. I like the MSR-2, would be awesome to have a Steiner with this reticle!
 
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I have the same optic and really wished they would swap to a floating dot. The floating dot that is in my March 5-40x56 is absolutely perfect. I can use it at ANY power and even on 40x at 1K on a 4" target I can easily put the shot where needed which is what I love about their floating center dot. My opinion is get rid of the fat + and add a 0.05mil floating dot. Everything else could stay the same IMO..
 
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Irokcrawl said:
I have the same optic and really wished they would swap to a floating dot. The floating dot that is in my March 5-40x56 is absolutely perfect. I can use it at ANY power and even on 40x at 1K on a 4" target I can easily put the shot where needed which is what I love about their floating center dot. My opinion is get rid of the fat + and add a 1/10 floating dot. Everything else could stay the same IMO..
Click to expand...


Thats be cool... i could go for that too. Then not only can it be used in the same fashion for sniping. It could double very well for precision ass dialing in dopes and being able to see a small target way out there...
 
ducks-and-bucks said:
Thats be cool... i could go for that too. Then not only can it be used in the same fashion for sniping. It could double very well for precision ass dialing in dopes and being able to see a small target way out there...
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Actually the March floating dot subtends to 0.05mil so 1.8" of area its covering at 1000 yards. Yeah its perfect IMO. I never in my life thought I would actually use 40x being a PRS guy and most think I'm dumb but I can sure as hell see the target (assuming no or little mirage like we have had here lately) and I can actually choose where I want the bullet to impact at 725yards (our longest range) on a 10" circle. That's the fun part IMO while practicing is not just hitting the target but trying to hit the edge or a 1" dot or whatever. I dang sure cant do it that well with my Stiener because the + covers the whole target. I need to figure out what Kahlies floating dot subtends to since they use it, also a few of the S&B's actually have a floating dot in the MSR reticel as well but its hit or miss like the H58 models having the dot when its usually supposed to only be the h59's. Basically a mistake I'm assuming while engraving the glass but a mistake I would like to become a perm option.
 
what would you guys think about a march optic with a MSR style reticel? I have put my S&B's, Stieners etc all on the side in favor of the March optics. They are light as hell, Clear as hell and track perfectly and more importantly THEY ARE LISTENING TO WHAT WE WANT!
 
Irokcrawl said:
what would you guys think about a march optic with a MSR style reticel? I have put my S&B's, Stieners etc all on the side in favor of the March optics. They are light as hell, Clear as hell and track perfectly and more importantly THEY ARE LISTENING TO WHAT WE WANT!
Click to expand...

Honostly ive never sat behind a march scope. I have heard only good things about them though. I am in love with the msr reticle. I think it is awesome for ranging and what I do and plan to buy more scopes with the msr. Like what was stated above by another a thinner reticle would be amazing on 25x power but when down to 5x it could be tricky to see the finer lines...

Just a far out idea too but itd be badass to have a second elevation and windage turret on top of the already existing turrets for even finer adjustments than .1 mil. As I tend to ALWAYS end up with a bullets impact between .1 mil adjustments lol. But now we are just talking about turning a scope into a target scope lol. Im gonna get BR scope for my BR gun for sure, but I find it fascinating how I can get my rifles to shoot and end up between mil adjustments for an exact tits on zero..
 
My March is 0.05mil increments and with a 6mm creedmoor I'm usually below 6.3mils to 1k so it's actually pretty awesome because I can fine tune it. It's a tad slower but once you get used to it I can fly with the turrets and not over dial. Eye box is a little less than some others but I have no problems in matches, when throwing it up on a 90* angle to fit the optic under a slit that's cut out. The march is light but so far has taken a beating. I may not be able to drive nails with it but I love having the option of anything between 5x and 40x. Makes dot drills feel like I'm cheating. Lol.

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I honestly feel like reticle is a good balance between thick and thin. Depends on the application I guess but I feel like the issue is relatively overblown on what is probably the best deal going on premium level optics.
 
i have the 4x16 mil steiner out to a 1000 yards this weekend shooting and i felt it did really well. i had around 10x most of the time. the reticle really did not bother me even have to hold over for wind.
 
It's still a good reticle but could be improved upon imo. I much prefer a floating dot to the +. I know kahlies has that but I couldn't pass up the deal I got on my 5-25x56 stiener plus the free bino's which are awesome.

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Irokcrawl said:
It's still a good reticle but could be improved upon imo. I much prefer a floating dot to the +. I know kahlies has that but I couldn't pass up the deal I got on my 5-25x56 stiener plus the free bino's which are awesome.

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Click to expand...

are they still doing free binos?
 
ryu_sekai said:
are they still doing free binos?
Click to expand...

It ended 12/31/13 from what I understand. I got mine mailed off on the 2nd of Jan '14 and had the bino's in less than 4-6 days. My receipt was dated December 26th or something like that so maybe they cut me a break due to holidays and shipping delays. Very glad they did because the bino's are awesome, especially for free!

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hold off to the left/right and adjust windage turret accordingly. That way you 'cradle' the target at the intersection of the crosshairs and can see it clearly. For round targets it actually gives you two points of contact with the reticle to hold aim.

I have the scope and reticle in question and it works fine for me.
 
Then I rely on having to screw with the magnification which I usually don't fool with. A 0.05mil floating dot fixes that imo but that's just my opinion. :)

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EventHorizon said:
no you don't
Click to expand...

To use the + as two points of reference on a smaller target then to a larger target yes, for the most part I try to practice on 1moa targets or smaller. I don't use it that way and I don't touch windage. Matter of fact it's disabled so I don't have someone turn it 10mils back to 0 during a match again like someone did to my xrs once. I honestly don't remember how the windage is laid out on the stiener. It's something that's set and forgot about. I do count all the way left from center just to have it noted for future reference though.

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RWSGunsmithing said:
Spoke to a Steiner rep at shot show about the very same thing and he told me that they are looking at the msr-2 reticle. However they want a few modifications to it.

They were hoping to have something out later this year.
Click to expand...

I'll try to address as many comments on here as I can. We had so many modifications that we wanted to incorporate that it is no longer an MSR reticle. We have since started basically from scratch and come up with a totally new reticle designed specifically to accomodate the competitive shooter. The MSR is a military based reticle for the most part adapted to competition. We are still going to make a modification to the MSR to help resolve the thickness issue. I think you guys will be happy with both reticles.
 
Irokcrawl said:
what would you guys think about a march optic with a MSR style reticel? I have put my S&B's, Stieners etc all on the side in favor of the March optics. They are light as hell, Clear as hell and track perfectly and more importantly THEY ARE LISTENING TO WHAT WE WANT!
Click to expand...

Don't think we aren't listening. I'm here. I don't always chime in but I'm always here. I think you might be eating your words in another 6 months. :)
 
Steiner Optics said:
Don't think we aren't listening. I'm here. I don't always chime in but I'm always here. I think you might be eating your words in another 6 months. :)
Click to expand...

I hope so because I love the optic. Just need a small floating dot :) my stiener stays on my go to 308 over the other optics I have. The march is on a 6mm creedmoor which is my match gun. It's light and just flat out works.

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ahhshoot said:
I have the same scope, and let me tell you, that same reticle at 5x all but disappears. With that much mag. variation it would be tough to get something that would be ideal across all magnifications, let alone usable at lower mags. If you are on 25x all the time then I'd imagine you might want something a little thinner. Such is the tradeoff with an FFP scope. It would be cool to have an MSR reticle with a circle/very fine dot combo at the center rather than crosshairs. The circle could be 2 mils in diameter and the rest of the mils could be hash marks.

I Just googled MSR-2, sort of the same idea but not exactly. I like the MSR-2, would be awesome to have a Steiner with this reticle!
Click to expand...

I presume you mean Kahles MSR-K version, which has floating dot instead of solid cross.



Actual MSR2 exists but pictures have not been published anywhere. Steiner has not seen it yet.
Many things have changed, and it has brand new features not seen in any reticle ever. Changes/additions have been made, keeping both close and distant shooting in mind. This is particularly tricky combination with latest big ratio FFP scopes. Way we see it, it can not be solved with traditional reticle design.
Still, it should feel very cosy to people who have used to MSR and who appreciate its unique features. :)




For users with MSR, one small trick for long ranges and possibly tiny target/aiming reference is to use "L" -scale corner as aiming point.
L- scale line weight is only 0.02mils, so it is thinner than any FFP reticle center cross hair line I´m aware of- covering 0.72" at 1000yds.
As comparison, S&B P4 Fine and H2CMR weights are 0.035mils, Premier Gen2 XR being 0.025mils.

For using it, one just need to dial 20clicks/2mrad left (25clicks with Kahles k624i MSR-K!) and use that knob position as zero windage reference.
If your card is showing 7 clicks right for xx wind, you actually set 20L-7R = 13 left on windage turret. And so on.

Also, minimum shooting range has to be enough for 20click (k624i 25clicks) vertically "shifted" aiming point. In another words- range where shooter normally would have to adjust POI upwards at least 20 clicks or 2mrad is closest range where L-corner aiming can be done. Beyond 20 clicks point, just start adding clicks as target is further- 35 click dope is 15 on turret etc.


29vly82.jpg
 
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I posted another thread asking the usability of a lighted red dot for 5x when engaging closer targets on LR scopes. Do you think this would address the problem of a thinner reticle disappearing at close range?
 
I personally love reticles that only illuminate the center dot. Makes it easy to quickly get on targets when the reticel normally is fading away due to lighting. I don't want the whole reticel lit up though or at least would want an option of dot only or the whole reticel.

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That would work although a rmr or fast fire on a angled ring mount works pretty good for those shots imo.

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