Gunsmithing Stiller TAC300 vs. Manners MCS w/ AI 300WM Mags

[Lowe Left]

Got my new barreled action from Southern Precision Rifles (aka Bugholes): TAC 300 Brux 26" M24 chambered in 280 Ackley Improved. Griped it into a new Manners T2 with MCS, and mounted my Nighforce 5.5-22x50 with badger rings.
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This is my first try at a wildcat cartridge, so I did some research and got an assist from a few folks that have, "been there, done that", and I appreciate the help. I bought the HS tool to bend the lips of the AI 300WM mags, and bent them to match the spec for 30-06 (280 is the step-brother). When I try to run the bolt, the lips make contact with the bolt and it goes nowhere. Ok I started bending, unbending and after 4 hours, I've got the mags where they will hold the 280 Rem, but there is still some contact and the bolt/action runs slightly rough. If I attempt to open the lips up, the 280 rem cases fly out of the top of the mag. My thought is now, to take off the mag latch and and file it down so that the mags can sit a little lower... I appreciate any advice and thank you all in advance.

The rifle "feels" awesome and I'm really happy with the work from both SPR and Manners. Just gotta be able to feed this sling-shot some rocks.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Stiller TAC300 vs. Manners MCS w/ AI 300WM Mags

If you file the latch, upward pressure on the mag will still stop operation. I dont think thats acceptable. See lots of people shoot off their magazines when they have no other choice. Rifle has to function with pressure pushing on that mag in any direction or it needs work.


If you did that, you would then have to add material on the part that stops the magazines upward travel. Have heard of people epoxying a piece of aluminum there but I dont like that.

 

[elmerdeer]

Re: Stiller TAC300 vs. Manners MCS w/ AI 300WM Mags

With the HS detach mag system I have on my rifle it came with washers that I had to adjust the height ot the bottom metal and mag, for instance I have 4washers inbetween the bottom metal and my stock in the front part and 2 washers in the back, which lowers the front part of my mag and raises the rear a bit so my bolt doesnt rub on my bullets and feeds them properly. What you need is the that the bolt just touches the head of your case in the back only, so it seems your bullets are to high, so if you been adjusting for 4 hours and still cant get it to cycle you have to lower your mag assembly.
I havent seen your DBM but maybe you can try this out and see if it works.
Elmer

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Stiller TAC300 vs. Manners MCS w/ AI 300WM Mags

elmerdeer, cant do that.


OP, keep working on those feed lips or get someone to do it who has done it with success.

 

[Lowe Left]

Re: Stiller TAC300 vs. Manners MCS w/ AI 300WM Mags

Agree with you Keith. I guess I could bed it, but then I'm defeating the purpose of having a mini-chassis. I cant think of a way to shim the mini-chassis either, it's one piece. I'm going to give Manners a call and see if this piece happens to be out of spec or something. Frustrating, I've already returned the stock and just got it back.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Stiller TAC300 vs. Manners MCS w/ AI 300WM Mags

Bedding it will only help. What point is that defeating?? Its certainly not hurting anything.

Tell ya what, I'll bed it for free if you go that route. Just pay for some Devcon and Release agent(unless you do your own).

Not sure it would fix the problem. Id have to look at it with the modified magazine and to see how much the action <span style="font-style: italic">needed</span> to be lifted, and how much it even <span style="font-style: italic">could</span> be lifted.



They're 300wm magaziness and you're running 280ai rounds in it. What piece are you thinking may be out of spec other than your ammo??

 

[stiller]

Re: Stiller TAC300 vs. Manners MCS w/ AI 300WM Mags

Your bottom metal/magazine is too close to the action. You will have to raise the action to make it work right or move the bottom metal down if you can. I am not sure how their chassis system works, that probably is not an option. The other option may be to grind a small amount off the top of the feedlips. Talk to Tom Manners about it if you need help with the chassis system.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Stiller TAC300 vs. Manners MCS w/ AI 300WM Mags

with regards to shortening the latch, I think that is the first route to take.
As a hobbyist, I modify the cheapest part first. Dropping the mag a little is a workable fix. I can't get behind Keith's "using the mag as support" as a reason it won't work-a) because if you do find a way to shoot off a LA mag you are going to be lower than you can shoot (I've seen your belly), and b) even if you are shooting from a mag monopod (which I've never seen you do) that will be with the bolt closed and firing.

I'd rather see you taper the rear of the feed lips to allow the bolt to push the mag downward when bolt goes forward if there is upwards pressure on mag.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Stiller TAC300 vs. Manners MCS w/ AI 300WM Mags

Id modify the magazines if possible first. But if that doesn't work, bedding it can raise the action however much you determine it needs to come up.


Sobrbiker I see people accidently use mags as rests sometimes and so why not make the rifle function that way if needed. Im Not saying using a mag as a rest is the best idea, but it should be capable of it imo.


If it can be made to function flawlessly all the time, no mater what, why should anything less be the goal?


OP, if you want to come to PCR's shop sometime after August 1st Id love to look at it with you and bed it with you if you chose to go that route.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Stiller TAC300 vs. Manners MCS w/ AI 300WM Mags

Nice lookin rifle btw.

Cept she's naked

 

[Lowe Left]

Re: Stiller TAC300 vs. Manners MCS w/ AI 300WM Mags

I appreciate everyone's input and advice, thank you. I'm leaning toward bedding the action to cure the problem. If i were to do some fabricating, I would alter the least expensive part, which is the latch, in fact, I have 2 of them. Messing up the latch is less expensive than removing too much material from an AI magazine, right?

Thanks again all.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Stiller TAC300 vs. Manners MCS w/ AI 300WM Mags

can you get a good straight on rear picture of your magazine with a round in it and maybe a side shot?

i wouldn't bed the chassis. that is not what it was designed for.

edit: this makes me think you need to close the lips just slightly.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rosie Palma</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got the mags where they will hold the 280 Rem, but there is still some contact and the bolt/action runs slightly rough. If I attempt to open the lips up, the 280 rem cases fly out of the top of the mag. </div></div>

 

[Lowe Left]

Re: Stiller TAC300 vs. Manners MCS w/ AI 300WM Mags

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">can you get a good straight on rear picture of your magazine with a round in it and maybe a side shot?

i wouldn't bed the chassis. that is not what it was designed for.

edit: this makes me think you need to close the lips just slightly.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rosie Palma</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got the mags where they will hold the 280 Rem, but there is still some contact and the bolt/action runs slightly rough. If I attempt to open the lips up, the 280 rem cases fly out of the top of the mag. </div></div> </div></div>

I will get some pics of the two mags I've been missing with. if I "close" the lips at all, it locks up the action. That's the dilemma, if I close the lips to hold the 280 round it locks up the action. Open them up and it runs fine. I concur with your point about bedding the chassis. Pictures coming...

 

[Lowe Left]

Re: Stiller TAC300 vs. Manners MCS w/ AI 300WM Mags

Sorry, but iPod pictures. I can pull the case up and out of the mag lips near the shoulder. If I close the lips at any point, the bolt seizes up. Note these are 280 Rem and I'll be loading 280AI which will have a larger diameter near the shoulder.

Pictures:



Let me know what you're thinking.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Stiller TAC300 vs. Manners MCS w/ AI 300WM Mags

i think your rounds are sitting WAY too high. i don't think i have an '06 based case here to mess around with in my mags though. i think by the time you bend the feed lips in enough to lower then, they will clear the bolt again.


edit: for shits and grins, i set a 308 in a 300wm aics magazine that is setup for my .284win. it popped up the out of the mag perfectly when i pushed the bolt forward. off the top of my head, the diameter is pretty close, if not the same as your 280. i'd try to bend your feed lips so your cases sit like this. hopefully, the issue is the feed lips being bent wrong, not something else.

 

[Lowe Left]

Re: Stiller TAC300 vs. Manners MCS w/ AI 300WM Mags

Thanks 300Sniper, pretty sure I been there already, but I'll try it again. I'll also attempt to get some pictures of the bolt face engaging the lips.

 

[Lowe Left]

Re: Stiller TAC300 vs. Manners MCS w/ AI 300WM Mags

Bent the lips closed more than required per HS's instructions for a 30-06 case just to see if I could get them to clear the bolt face. No joy.
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Pic of bolt face engaging lips of mag. (you can see where the bolt and lip have made some contact).
I'm going to call Manners, just to see if they've heard of this.
Most likely going to have to bed it to get the action up a little
higher. Kinda figuring the chassis is either a go or no go,
since it's just one solid chunk you don't have any options to
shim it or anything. I'll post any info I get from the Manners
team after the call tomorrow.

 

[jeo556]

Re: Stiller TAC300 vs. Manners MCS w/ AI 300WM Mags

I just got done altering my AI .300 WM magazine to work with .243 Win. I too used the HS Precision mag tool and bent the lips downward so that they would secure the .243 win case.

At first the lips would hold the cases down but the case head was not contacting the rear of the magazine body and the cases were able to slip right out the back of the magazine.

I then bent the lips further down to prevent this from happening. Now the very bottom of the case head contacts the rear of the magazine and they stay put just fine.

My final problem was that sometimes the bolt would not pick up the round from the mag. I used some devcon and built up the mag catch are of the mag so that I had something to work with. Once the devcon cured I took a file to it and now everything is working fine.

From looking at your picks I thinkg that you need to bend the lips down a bit, enough so that the case head makes a little contact with the rear of the magazine. Once you accomplish this see if the lips are still interferng with the bolt. If they are, maybe file a little off of the tops of the feed lips?????? Just thinking out loud here.........

I should add that my setup is a Savage LA with a XLR chassis which is obviously diffferent than what you are dealing with.

 

[Lowe Left]

Re: Stiller TAC300 vs. Manners MCS w/ AI 300WM Mags

Sent an email to Manners with a link to this topic. Tom called me back in less than 10 minutes. He wants me to send him the 2 mags and they're going to get me squared away. Great support from Manners as expected. Thanks everyone.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Stiller TAC300 vs. Manners MCS w/ AI 300WM Mags

Just the two mags, or the rifle and two mags? If just the mags, don't forget send some (dummy) rounds along for fitting to their chassis/action....

 

[Lowe Left]

Re: Stiller TAC300 vs. Manners MCS w/ AI 300WM Mags

Just the mags, I've got a dummy round included too.

 

[Lowe Left]

Re: Stiller TAC300 vs. Manners MCS w/ AI 300WM Mags

Revived,

A week ago or so, I got the mags and a new latch (Manners shaved off .0015). I finally got around to installing the new latch, but the mags still won't run reliably. I, again, bent and re-bent the lips and even took a Dremel to the lips of one mag, and it still won't function. I'm going to call Manners this morning and see if they have any other ideas. At this point I wish I'd gone with my first choice of a BDL BM.

damn....

 

[trauma1]

tag

i think your rounds are sitting WAY too high. i don't think i have an '06 based case here to mess

around with in my mags though. i think by the time you bend the feed lips in enough to lower then, they will clear the bolt again.


edit: for shits and grins, i set a 308 in a 300wm aics magazine that is setup for my .284win. it popped up the out of the mag perfectly when i pushed the bolt forward. off the top of my head, the diameter is pretty close, if not the same as your 280. i'd try to bend your feed lips so your cases sit like this. hopefully, the issue is the feed lips being bent wrong, not something else.