Stock, barreled action in a Hi Perf Stock?

[Mn_Shooter]

Question for the hide...

Will a stock barreled action, let's say one removed from a "off the rack" rifle like a 700P, reap the benefits of a high performance shooting platform such as a AICS?

Or would it be like dropping a Honda 50 engine in a drag bike frame? Then you pull the 50 engine, build the crap out of it, drop it back in the drag frame and go run low 10's all day if you do your part. BUT... In the mean time, you have a "all show, no go" put-put to cruise around on.

Your thoughts?

Sorry for all the bike metaphors... Been thinking drag racing today.

 

[Jerkface11]

Re: Stock, barreled action in a Hi Perf Stock?

You'll benefit from a better stock. Because it will be free floated, bedded better, and stiffer.

 

[AZK9]

Re: Stock, barreled action in a Hi Perf Stock?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerkface11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You'll benefit from a better stock. Because it will be free floated, bedded better, and stiffer. </div></div>

+1

 

[patches]

Re: Stock, barreled action in a Hi Perf Stock?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerkface11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You'll benefit from a better stock. Because it will be free floated, bedded better, and stiffer. </div></div>

+100

The Remington Hogue stock tends to be soft in the front end allowing it come in contact with the barrel effecting accuracy. An AI stock will give you features like an adjustable cheek piece, detachable BM, fully floated barrel. It is likely that accuracy will be improved, but nothing is guaranteed. If you are looking at the AI stock be sure to take a look at one and give it a try before you buy. They are great stocks, but not for everybody.

 

[silverstang]

Re: Stock, barreled action in a Hi Perf Stock?

If you are running low 10s on a drag bike you need more practice.

That goes hand in hand with needing more trigger time, not trying to be a smart a$$. I would use your money elsewhere before jumping into something like an AICS for a factory remington rifle. Maybe something like a good B&C, McM, or the like. Have the rifle worked by a smith, and shoot the factory barrel out then upgrade it.

By no means am I a professional marksman, so I fall into the category of needing more trigger time. I'm going with a McMillan stock as an upgrade over the factory Varmint plastic. Half the price of an AI, saves more cash for ammo and range fees.

 

[Mn_Shooter]

Re: Stock, barreled action in a Hi Perf Stock?

Low 10's on a 88 inch twin ain't THAT bad...

I totally agree... Trigger time trumps all. This is just a hypothetical question... Just a lil' idea that's been buzzing through the hollow called my head.

I have two 700P's, both in .300WM. Both with HS stocks. (Bought these on a whim back when I had real money.) One is being shot as we speak. The other has become a safe queen on the slow build road to excellence. The only parts I've added to this one have been Seekins base and rings.

Been thinking of dumping one of the HS stocks since the "build" gun will be sitting in a AICS eventually. I know... It does seem like a disjointed path... But, hey... I am a bit disjointed. LOL!!

 

[newguy2k3v2]

Re: Stock, barreled action in a Hi Perf Stock?

I don't see a problem with it. Going in you're not going to be the best shot in the world so you're not going to be able to reap the benefits of a custom worked gun. But at the same time if an AICS, MCM, Manners or whatever flavor of stock feels comfortable to you I say go ahead and get it. Shoot until you get to the point that you've realized it's full potential and then get a premium barrel put on, have it trued etc. You'll have a more accurate rifle without having to get used to it all over again like you would if you shot it unaltered and then made all the changes at once.

Make any sense?

 

[YN*Dotte]

Re: Stock, barreled action in a Hi Perf Stock?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: silverstang</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are running low 10s on a drag bike you need more practice.

That goes hand in hand with needing more trigger time, not trying to be a smart a$$. I would use your money elsewhere before jumping into something like an AICS for a factory remington rifle. Maybe something like a good B&C, McM, or the like. Have the rifle worked by a smith, and shoot the factory barrel out then upgrade it.

By no means am I a professional marksman, so I fall into the category of needing more trigger time. I'm going with a McMillan stock as an upgrade over the factory Varmint plastic. Half the price of an AI, saves more cash for ammo and range fees. </div></div>

I think just the opposite, the AICS for the same price as a decked out A4 or A5 has a aluminum bedding block, which saves the $150 extra to have the rifle bedded, can accept AICS mags, which saves about $400 dollars to have a DBM installed, not to mention it has adjustable cheek and LOP. If you like the egonomics of the AICS you will most likely never need to upgrade stocks again, but that JMO.

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: Stock, barreled action in a Hi Perf Stock?

If the 700P is what you're dealing with, that rifle does not come in a Hogue stock. It comes in an HS Precision stock that has an aluminum bedding block with the barrel free floated.

I was, not too long ago, considering an AICS myself. I started a thread asking people about what they don't like about the AICS and got LOTS of responses. The major complaints seem to be that although the cheek rest is adjustable, it doesn't go low enough, it is HEAVY and some don't like the thumbhole.

Personally, if you are starting out with something like a 700P, I don't think that getting a new stock will get you anything that will make you or the rifle shoot any better. The only thing that will do that is trigger time and LOTS of it. I know that it took me a lot of rounds down range before I started showing any sort of consistency.

Still, if you've just gotta have a new stock, don't discount the likes of McMillan. They are very nice stocks with more of a conventional profile and weight. I don't own a McMillan, but have shoot a good few of them and most weren't bedded, because the owners didn't think that they needed them. They didn't feel the need to fix what wasn't broken.

 

[Overflow10]

Re: Stock, barreled action in a Hi Perf Stock?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TonyAngel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.......

Personally, if you are starting out with something like a 700P, I don't think that getting a new stock will get you anything that will make you or the rifle shoot any better. The only thing that will do that is trigger time and LOTS of it. I know that it took me a lot of rounds down range before I started showing any sort of consistency.

Still, if you've just gotta have a new stock, don't discount the likes of McMillan. They are very nice stocks with more of a conventional profile and weight. I don't own a McMillan, but have shoot a good few of them and most weren't bedded, because the owners didn't think that they needed them. They didn't feel the need to fix what wasn't broken. </div></div>

I am on a track like that. Starting with a stock Rem 700 5R. Trigger time has made the most difference however I am not a fan of the HS stock. Palm swell is too large for me. I went with a McM A1-3 and I really like it. It is much more comfortable, good check weld, etc. Probably hard to say it is improving my results but I do enjoy shooting it more than with the HS stock..

My 2 cents..

 

[Mn_Shooter]

Re: Stock, barreled action in a Hi Perf Stock?

All good info!! Thanks guys!! You all have given me much to think about! I'm here to learn and school's in session!

I whole heartedly admit, at this stage of the game, a system such as the AICS would be a tool, sure. but way more in the "cool" department with my limited trigger time thus far. That will change when the weather drys up a bit. My range is currently submerged due to spring flooding.

The HS stock I shoot with now is "okay" at best. It's comfortable, but not at the point where I feel comfort should be. Hope that made a little sense. I think it's more of a feel I'm looking for and not getting quite there with the HS stock. More natural, less forced.

Am I talking about a rifle here or a woman?

 

[anothervr6kid]

Re: Stock, barreled action in a Hi Perf Stock?

I put a AICS on my sps varmint... I bought the rifle with the intent of changing out the stock. The AICS was cheaper then a mcmillan stock with R&D Precision bottom metal. Try out a AICS and if its comfortable and meets your needs for adjustability then buy one.

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: Stock, barreled action in a Hi Perf Stock?

I just bought a Bell and Carlson stock. The M40 model. I pulled my barreled action out of the HSP that it was sitting in and put it into the B&C stock. Now, I know the B&C is a cheap stock. I know it doesn't have the name or reputation of a McMillan or AICS or even HS Precision; but as much as I hate to admit it, I like the stock.

The palm swell is a good bit thinner and does feel more comfortable to me when shooting prone because it affords a more natural hold for me. Another thing (and this may have been in my head) but I could swear that I was getting less perceived recoil. The work on the B&C was also cleaner than both of the HSP stocks that I have. There was no overspray on the bedding block at the rear tang, there is aluminum forward of the recoil lug (as in it had a reinforced section) and it had a nice feel. What I'm not crazy about is the forearm. It feels like a 2X4, but I'll fix that when I get some time.

I'm not trying to get off on a tangent, I just thought I'd throw this out there. The B&C stock really surprised me, considering that a lot of guys bad mouth them. Maybe people would think more of them if B&C raised their prices.

Oh, and another observation that I made was that it was much easier to remove material from an HSP stock than it was to remove it from the B&C. When removing material from the HSP, I got that distinctive epoxy smell as the material came off in small clumps. When removing it from the B&C, it was harder work and the material came off in the form of a fine powder, more like I was sanding fiberglass or carbon fiber. I don't know that this means anything, but thought I'd mention it.

 

[Swift]

Re: Stock, barreled action in a Hi Perf Stock?

The AICS/McRee/XLR/etc are very different animals than the traditional McMillan/HSP/Manners style stocks.

The chassis systems have a "tacticool" look to them but they aren't just for show. They shoot as good as they look, assuming you're a competent marksman. The bolt-in-and-go design is nice and the options for mounting accessories helps a lot for field applications.

McMillan, HSP, Manners, etc are also great products and also perform very admirably. They feel and handle a lot like what most guys are used to and often times are much lighter than the chassis systems.

It really comes down to preference and feel. A comparably equipped McMillan and AICS will both shoot lights out, even on a rifle that is otherwise 100% stock.

 

[proneshooter]

Re: Stock, barreled action in a Hi Perf Stock?

An Aluminum bedding block, while an improvement over the usual factory bedding practice (i.e. none), is never a substitute for a correct pillar and epoxy bedding job.

The fact that ALL machined or cast metal parts will have tolerances on all dimensions makes it impossible to have a 100% perfect, stress-free contact between an action and a bedding block. Even if your centerless ground a tubular action (like a Remington 700 and surface ground into a V the bedding block, you will still have about .0002" to .0005" total possible mismatch between the two.

The only way to make action to stock contact completely stress free is to use a liquid shim to fill in the gaps between the two. That liquid shim is usually a two-part structural epoxy like those made by Devcon or Hysol. In fact, Hysol EA9694 would be my choice, as it is widely used in aerospace as a metal to metal permanent bonding adhesive and liquid shim.