Straight Back question

[libertyman777]

Watched the video this weekend and I have a question. When I was taught the prone position (25 years + ago) it was with a rifle "slung up" and our bodies were at an angle to the target, not straight behind the rifle with shoulders square.

I hardly ever shoot with a sling anymore but I'm almost always behind a rifle in the prone on a bipod and I just assumed that the body position stayed the same, i.e. rifle straight at the target, body at a comfortable angle, find natural POA with everything moving together.

Is this simply the difference between shooting the prone position with a sling vs shooting a rifle with a bipod? Or has everything changed?

Thanks,

Paul

 

[ewoaf]

Re: Straight Back question

yeah, the sling forces your arms to be in totally different positions than prone/pod. Then the whole leg cocked up relieves stress off your back. I think the two are different. Someone may come in here and correct me though.

 

[boom2336]

Re: Straight Back question

They way I was taught the prone (via USMC) was to be straight behing the rifle, toes pointed outward heels as flat as they could be. This was using a loop sling, hasty sling and no sling at all. Even with 5.56 you could see the difference in recoil management if this position was used properly. Now it seems as though we were taught by the same institution. As for the body being slanted as you were taught and straight back as I was taught.... not sure. I think this is relative to a combat stance. Slated out to the side gives the enemy a larger target(Head, part torso, legs), where the straight back(especialy with ankles crossed) gives you just head/shoulders.

As for it changing. I dont think so. Fundementals cant really changed.

 

[libertyman777]

Re: Straight Back question

Well, here's what I'm talking about. The difference is subtle, but subtle differences can make all the difference.

Now like I said, it's been a while since I was at PI, I graduated 20 Nov 85, 3rd Bn., H Company, Plt. 3091. I had a drill instructor by the name of Hanlon (I think I spelled that correctly). We were told that he held the Permanent Party range record at that time. Might have been BS, I don't know but he coached us alot after hours. It might have been an either/or at that time, I just can't remember. But I know that I was shown the cocked leg position shown above.

I certainly see the advantage of being directly behind the rifle in the images above. That shooter is lower, and with his head closer to the ground, the position has to be more stable, even though his leg position seems exaggerated. Maybe I struggled with the other position at the time and was told to compensate with bending my leg. It seemed to work, I fired a 227.

But now I'm struggling behind the bipod. It's all relatively new to me, from loading the bipod, to the straight back position, etc. I'm going to learn this prone position, I think it will help.

Now as for fundamentals changing, I don't know about that either but in the spirit of improvising, overcoming and adapting, I believe that anything can be improved upon.

Example, as far as breathing is concerned, I was taught to let out half a breath and squeeze but I understand that now they teach to shoot at the bottom of the exhale during the natural respiratory pause.

Thanks for your help Devil Dog.

S/F,

Paul

 

[ewoaf]

Re: Straight Back question

Well the reason I said what I said is something those pics show well. I don't see how you can really get perfectly straight slung up because one arm is being used to support the rifle. This induces canting and slant in the shoulders, while with a bipod you can square up your shoulders. I would have to agree that the bottom example would be better than the top, however you can see the shoulders are still not straight.

 

[boom2336]

Re: Straight Back question

Liberty if you have a problem with loading the rifle while on bipod. Looking into a bipod that tilts. The bottom example of the prone is how I like to shoot. But as you said it looks as if he is over exagerating the spread eagle, and how low his rifle is. If he has a standard 30 round mag in it would be resting on the deck. And if that is the case, artificial support.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Straight Back question

Different shooting disciplines require different techniques, keeping your muzzle on target at all times, spotting your shots, watching trace, is a training tool for staying alive and killing your enemy, realize not all of us have a NEED for this type of training, but the philosphy from where it comes from can and will help us be better shooters.

 

[boom2336]

Re: Straight Back question

Typically speaking when you are shooting at the enemy it is much more like Hogans alley. A fire team online laying waste to what they can and fighting over who shot the haj. Very seldom, in firefights, do you take the time for well placed shots.Its kinda entertaining sometimes. A bunch of grown 12 year olds with rifles and maching guns.

 

[TimK]

Re: Straight Back question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boom2336</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Liberty if you have a problem with loading the rifle while on bipod. Looking into a bipod that tilts. The bottom example of the prone is how I like to shoot. But as you said it looks as if he is over exagerating the spread eagle, and how low his rifle is. If he has a standard 30 round mag in it would be resting on the deck. And if that is the case, artificial support. </div></div>

I think he said "loading the bipod", not loading the rifle.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Straight Back question

Position Shooting is like a lot of other things involving guns, (and pretty much everything else).

ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL

You kind of have to work the shooter into the position that fits him/her.

It will be differant from some little skinny dude and some other, who has washed down a lot a fried chicken with a lot of beer.

Any position (not just prone) has to have two main criterias, Natural point of aim and COMFORT. You have to have a relaxed position.

And normally you have to have TWO prone positions. Slow fire at 600-1000 yards requirs a differant, more relaxed position then rapid fire.

For example my slow fire prome position is pretty much stretched out. Almost like I was gonna take a nap (and have been accused of napping a time or two).

But in rapid fire, I kind of look scrunched up, or I have my right knee (being right handed, differant if left handed) up and touching my right elbow. My knee helps to keep my right elbow from slipping which we know kind of screws up your groups.

You want a good position (prone or any other) then find a good coach, let him watch you shoot a bit, then let him work you into a relaxed comfortable position THAT FITS YOU.

People seem to forget that being RELAXED is an important fundamental in position shooting.

Got to a high power match and watch the shooters, some seem like they are napping, some flop around like a chicken with his head cut off.

RELAX