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Suppressors Subsonic .223 ammo

Irelander

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 14, 2006
208
0
Seneca, PA
A friend of mine is in the process of getting a suppressor for his M4. He is now on the hunt for subsonic ammo. I did a quick google search and only found the Extreme Shock round and it's pretty pricy. There was the EBR rounds but they do not cycle the action. Can you guys point me in the right direction to some good .223 subsonic rounds?
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

Federal Bulk ....

You wont find a subsonic round that is going to cycle the action of an AR unless you go to a 300 whisper or something of that nature.

Why is it that when people get cans they immediately think that they need subsonic ammo?

Just shoot the damn thing and you will be fine.
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

This
CMMG22LRCONV-2.jpg


+

This
Subbx.jpg



= subsonic 223 that feeds, functions, and locks the bolt to the rear.
smile.gif
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

good advice on the 22 lr SUBSONIC... 223 centerfire subsonic attempts are a waste of effort... build a 300 Whisper on your AR platform.
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsydlooknin75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Federal Bulk ....

You wont find a subsonic round that is going to cycle the action of an AR unless you go to a 300 whisper or something of that nature.

Why is it that when people get cans they immediately think that they need subsonic ammo?

Just shoot the damn thing and you will be fine. </div></div>

Well, I know that when I shoot high velocity ammo in my suppressed CZ .22 rifle it is just as loud as without the suppressor. But use subsonic and it's as quiet as a mouse. I just fugured it would be the same type of deal with the .223. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd like to know why I'm wrong. Thanks.
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

I hear you on the full power ammo with a can... The 223 is designed to travel 3000 fps and works great with a can, but if you want quiet either go with a 22 LR or build a whisper.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Irelander</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsydlooknin75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Federal Bulk ....

You wont find a subsonic round that is going to cycle the action of an AR unless you go to a 300 whisper or something of that nature.

Why is it that when people get cans they immediately think that they need subsonic ammo?

Just shoot the damn thing and you will be fine. </div></div>

Well, I know that when I shoot high velocity ammo in my suppressed CZ .22 rifle it is just as loud as without the suppressor. But use subsonic and it's as quiet as a mouse. I just fugured it would be the same type of deal with the .223. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd like to know why I'm wrong. Thanks.</div></div>
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

It will always be a lot quieter with the subsonic.

Subsonic 22lr shoots a 40 grain and in some cases a 60 grain bullet. Why go to the trouble of reloading 223 when remington and Aguila make the same thing in a rimfire.
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

Get a hold of ChadTRG42!!! I am waiting on one of his loads
wink.gif
hehe for 223 subsonic.
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ejd049</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..I am waiting on one of his loads
wink.gif
hehe ...</div></div>

HAHA, you crack me up!

Anyway, it looks like Cor-bon makes some subsonic .223 ammo and it is decently priced too.

How much does ChadTRG42 charge for his service? hehe
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m21black</div><div class="ubbcode-body">good advice on the 22 lr SUBSONIC... 223 centerfire subsonic attempts are a waste of effort... build a 300 Whisper on your AR platform. </div></div>

Or a 9x19 upper, Federal American eagle AE9N2 147gr is subsonic and will reach 100yds.
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Irelander</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Well, I know that when I shoot high velocity ammo in my suppressed CZ .22 rifle it is just as loud as without the suppressor. But use subsonic and it's as quiet as a mouse. I just fugured it would be the same type of deal with the .223. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd like to know why I'm wrong. Thanks.</div></div>

With a 22LR in a rifle length barrel there is very little heard muzzle blast in the first place. Even with a suppressor most of what you hear is the sonic crack. Try subsonic 22LR in an unsuppressed 22LR and it's fairly quiet.

However with a 223 (particularly in shorter barreled AR's) there is a LOT of muzzle blast and that is what deafens you. Your suppressor will knock that down to hearing safe levels even if you do still hear the sonic crack. If you are using it on a 50yd+ range then you'll be just fine without earpro. In a small little CQB pit shooting at targets 10yds away the sonic crack can still ring your ears a little bit just because it's reflecting off the target so close to you.

So, yes, obviously subsonic ammo is quieter than supersonic, but how this relates to your 223 cannot be directly compared to your 22LR.
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Bee 950</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It will always be a lot quieter with the subsonic.

Subsonic 22lr shoots a 40 grain and in some cases a 60 grain bullet. Why go to the trouble of reloading 223 when remington and Aguila make the same thing in a rimfire. </div></div>

I shoot.22s suppressed all the time. But their is alot to be said for a dual purpose rifle that could go from shooting hot to 600 yards to shooting dead silent out to 250-300 yards. Cycling does not matter when you intend on making just one shot. Carrying two dedicated weaapons is a lot harder than one refined multi purpose weapon. Some people turn off the gas system and go single. Higher performance and a third the noise.
But your round needs to be developed around that and only for single shot or you risk a squib.
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Bee 950</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Subsonic 22lr shoots a 40 grain and in some cases a 60 grain bullet. Why go to the trouble of reloading 223 when remington and Aguila make the same thing in a rimfire. </div></div>

22lr 40 grain at 1050 fps gives you 97 ft-lbs, the SSS 60 grain at 700 fps is only 65 ft-lbs. A 70 grain 223 at 1050 fps is 170 ft-lbs. Can do even better with heavier bullets. While subsonic 223 can be a pain in the butt, its performance is way better than the rim fire. I can not attest to accuracy differences because I do not have a rimfire ar-15.

Ranb
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

My buddy just picked up his Coastal XD 556 can and a Costal Passport can. He wasn't too impressed with the full power .223 loads but the dealer gave him a handfull of subsonic loads and he was loving it. I'll have to ask him what subsonic ammo he was shooting. He is really enjoying the .22 suppressor too. Now he just needs to let me shoot them.
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Irelander</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsydlooknin75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Federal Bulk ....

You wont find a subsonic round that is going to cycle the action of an AR unless you go to a 300 whisper or something of that nature.

Why is it that when people get cans they immediately think that they need subsonic ammo?

Just shoot the damn thing and you will be fine. </div></div>

Well, I know that when I shoot high velocity ammo in my suppressed CZ .22 rifle it is just as loud as without the suppressor. But use subsonic and it's as quiet as a mouse. I just fugured it would be the same type of deal with the .223. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd like to know why I'm wrong. Thanks. </div></div>

I shoot standard ammo out of my Walter P22 with suppressor and its still pretty quiet. Its got a shorter barrel then your CZ rifle. Subsonics are going to be more quiet but standard ammo is not going to sound the same suppressed vs not suppressed.

What ammo are you shooting in standard velocity?
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

I have loaded 70 grain speer bullet over about 7 grains of H110 for a good subsonic load. They do not of course cycle the action, but are much less noisy than the 62 grain 2800 fps load. They are also more noisy than any 40 grain subsonic 22lr load due to the much larger powder charge. But a 70 grain or heavier 224 bullet is going to pack much more punch than any 22lr bullet no matter what speed it is going.

Ranb
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

never found anything that cycled.
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

170 ft/lb isn't exactly a sledgehammer.
You've got less energy than .38 Special wadcutters.
.223/5.56 gets its killing power from the 3000+ fps velocity, which gives it NINE TIMES THE KINETIC ENERGY of the same bullet shot subsonic.
Looked at the other way, slowing the bullet down drops the energy by nearly 90%.
Except MAYBE for such use as taking out a street light before switching back to full power ammo, subsonic .223 is an fiddly way of accomplishing what can be done with a fast twist bolt action and Aguila SSS, or only marginally less with a suppressed 10/22 and 40gr match ammo.
It's not the bullet that does the damage, it's the energy the bullet carries. A 9MM suppressed carbine (or pistol) launches twice the energy of your 70gr subsonic .223, and doesn't require handloading.
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

Even if its not moving at optimal speed the 223 will hit and tumble when slowed down. Causing massive trauma to flesh.
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frog5215</div><div class="ubbcode-body">subsonic .223 is an fiddly way of accomplishing what can be done with a fast twist bolt action and Aguila SSS, or only marginally less with a suppressed 10/22 and 40gr match ammo. </div></div>

I do not know what kind of speed you get with the 60 grain SSS, but I only get about 700 fps at the most; this means only 65 ft-lbs, subsonic 40 grain gives you only 98 ft-lbs, hypersonic 22lr gives 139 ft-lbs. That 170 ft-lbs from the subsonic 223 is enough to ruin anyone's day out to 200 yards. I consider it much better than any subsonic rimfire.

Ranb
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

If you do get it to cycle with the subsonic 223 it would be louder when the bolt opens (action cycles)loosing much of the reason You are trying to be quiet to begin with wouldn't it.
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Irelander</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsydlooknin75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Federal Bulk ....

You wont find a subsonic round that is going to cycle the action of an AR unless you go to a 300 whisper or something of that nature.

Why is it that when people get cans they immediately think that they need subsonic ammo?

Just shoot the damn thing and you will be fine. </div></div>

Well, I know that when I shoot high velocity ammo in my suppressed CZ .22 rifle it is just as loud as without the suppressor. But use subsonic and it's as quiet as a mouse. I just fugured it would be the same type of deal with the .223. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd like to know why I'm wrong. Thanks. </div></div>

I shoot standard ammo out of my Walter P22 with suppressor and its still pretty quiet. Its got a shorter barrel then your CZ rifle. Subsonics are going to be more quiet but standard ammo is not going to sound the same suppressed vs not suppressed.

What ammo are you shooting in standard velocity?</div></div>

Out of my Buckmark pistol I shoot Federal bulk high velocity. The 4" barrel keeps things subsonic. Out of my CZ rifle (16" barrel) I use CCI standard velocity. Where I am at this ammo stays subsonic even in the colder temps. I was using Federal Target which is standard velocity but when the snow started to fly these rounds started going supersonic. Remington Subsonics definitely sound the best but they are so unreliable that I don't even bother with them anymore.
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

I had good luck with 70 grain speer over 6.0 to 6.1 of trail boss. found it to be stable in 1 in 9 twist ar, and is super quiet thru a yhm phantom. Any time I shot anything with a 22lr sub, 60 aquila etc I spent alot time walking around but did not find most. I shot the 70 grain speer thru wet phone books and had some(although not great) expansion. I will post recovered bullet photos soon. By the way 6.0 gr of trail boss produced 1019fps 1st 1022fps 2nd 936.7 3rd. 6.2 produced supersonic. No compairson to a 22lr!!!
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

I don't quite understand why on every post concerning subsonic .223's there is ALWAYS one or two people that feel the need to post their opinions on the effectiveness of the round even though it's not the topic. The vast majority of the time the people posting have no experience whatsoever using these rounds and a large percentage don't even own a suppressor for any caliber.

Is it as effective as a normal supersonic .223 round? No.
Are there better subsonic platforms available? Of course.
Is it a challenge to get an AR to perform great subsonic? Yes.
Does it cost more than other subsonic platforms to shoot? Yes.

Do the people posting the topic know all this already? Most likely.

I could go on writing these for a full page, but I am only trying to make a point. The people asking the question aren't asking for anyones random opinion on what the best or cheapest subsonic platform is, if they wanted the opinions they would have posted a topic titled "What's the best subsonic rifle".

I read an almost identical post with a couple of individuals who make the point better than I do, read the remarks left by "444" on following page. Between him and a couple others they pretty much sum it up.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Starts at about comment 14 and continues, there are some very good points and facts to consider for all you guys who are baffled by anyone who wants a suppressed .223, hopefully it will help you understand:</span>

Link to Suppressed .223 Post - Offsite
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

Scott, thanks for the link. 444 and RanB's comments there are enlightening and pretty comprehensive, as well as concise.

I'll hazard the guess that the OP and his buddy may not be aware of all this. That's why I posted what I did.

For those who think the only value of a suppressor lies with subsonic loads, they're likely to be disappointed. The external ballistic limitations of subsonic loads alone bear close scrutiny: witness the post regarding use of subsonic .308 on game (deer) to 200yd. Marginal loads demand surgical placement, whether a 29gr air rifle pellet starting @ 900fps toward a feral pig's head 35yd away, or a 200gr .308 headed for the chest of similar animal at some longer distance. In field conditions, lots of folks, even members of this forum, are likely to have difficulty delivering that precision with 1000fps loads at more than 75-100yd.

People confuse the capability of a given cartridge in its standard loading with its capability when you reduce its energy 75-90% and increase the 100yd drop from a 50yd setting by 5 or 6 inches or more.

Is there anything wrong with plinking or small game hunting with subsonic loads? Of course not.

Professional/tactical use? Do what you have to do.

But an expectation of utility beyond plinking or very circumscribed other circumstances of suppressed subsonic .223 is what the OP is being warned against.

I wholly approve of jollies, whatever they may be. But realistic expectations are important.
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

I think that even subsonic rounds are more effective than a lot of people realize. My family owns a 4,000 + acre ranch here in Texas where I have been shooting since I could hold a gun on my own. Although there is privacy and open space, there have been a few people build homes on the outskirts of our land, which is the original reason I started looking at suppressors to begin with. I do a lot of night hunting (coyotes, bobcats, feral hogs, etc) using a POF P-308 with a Gen 3 PS22 night vision system, and simply didn't want to bother others if I was hunting on a part of our land close to their house.

Between my four suppressed rifles, the P-308 is my favorite as I can knock a full grown coyote <span style="font-style: italic">clean off its paws at 400+ yards no problem</span>(furthest I have tried suppressed at night.) I have yet to have a single issue with any subsonic ammunition being inadequate, whether it be .223, 6.8 or .308. I realize I'm not hunting elephants here, but anyone who has gone up against a pissed feral hog will tell you it's one of the toughest and meanest animals in this part of the country.

This brings up a valuable point, however! One that I personally have made numerous times with my suppressed .223. I don't go looking for feral hogs with subsonic ammunition, I go looking for coyotes, skunks and the like, I would preffer a 12 guage or my 50 Beowulf given the choice. But being that I AM USING A SUPPRESSED .223 INSTEAD OF A .22LR, I can have a magazine with normal ammo swapped out and on target in a second if needed, which is a good thing with a couple hundred pounds of ticked off pork bearing down on you.

Seeing as how I usually take the 308 out, I have much less experience with the subsonic .223 rounds. The experience I do have, however, is real hits and results and not just punching paper. I have only shot animals as big as a large coyote at ranges within 150 yards using subsonic .223 ammunition, so results will obviously be different if shooting a large buck or moose. I have over 20 coyote kills using <span style="text-decoration: underline">subsonic .223</span>, <span style="font-weight: bold">and have yet to have a single one keep going</span>. I also have countless skunks and other varmints with this ammo, only ones that got away were due to operator error (I missed).

So why use subsonic .223 over supersonic .223? It's simple, I can have a group of 4-5 coyotes I have called in - pitch black - and can usually take most of them before they even realize why their buddies are dropping around them. One shot with a normal .223 and it's off to the races. Same goes with the 6.8 and 308. I am also avoiding having someone call the cops on me if I happen to be shooting on the far outskirts of our land where a couple of trailer homes were dragged in about 1/2 mile off our fenceline (and no I don't shoot in their direction.)

Seeing a coyote hit solid by a subsonic .223 gives a much clearer picture of the rounds downrange performance than punching a hole in a target. Seeing the coyote spin off its feet or go rolling in a cloud of dust makes it pretty clear that this is still a deadly and effective round even at the reduced velocity.

Sorry for the short novel I just wrote, I simply wanted to share my personal experience with subsonic .223 in actual use against actual targets. This experince is how I formed my opinions concerning subsonic .223 loads, and the opinion I have formed is that there are a lot of excellent uses for this load and this rifle, versatility being one of the strongest points. I also believe the majority of people out there educated on the issue probably agree, which is why there are more .223 suppressor owners today than ever before.
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

Way down this thread and nobody has mentioned that you better have a clue about twist when you slow down a .223 to subsonic and mount a can. The majority of can makers won't warrenty ANY subsonic .223 for a reason.

From my pespective, the suppressor most likely to disapoint is the .223. It is one of the hardest suppress super sonic rounds to supress and those that want to suppressor it have the lowest tolerance for volume based (larger) designs. Most .223 supressors firing supersonic ammo are loud. Use that same can on a barrel less than 14" and it is VERY LOUD. There is no "hearing safe" .223 with any length barrel, shooting supersonic rounds, with ANY can. It's a myth that will do your ears in over time. Shooting .223? Muff or plug up.

So what do people do when their .223 still sounds way too loud? They go subsonic .223, not to get rid of the projectile flight signature alone (few really are bothered by that) they do it to try and get their .223 cans to sound the least bit quiet in regard to blast. Reduce a round to subsonic velocities and all the things that make up muzzle blast go down expotentially as well. In other words, your friend and you both have cans that are struggling to deal with typical .223 muzzle blast to begin with. His .223 and your .22. Will subs make it quieter? Much quieter and at a huge price in regard to accuracy, terminal force, function and range and, unless they are reloading, price per round.

Looking for a great cartridge platform to get your rig to shoot accurately, powerfully and as quietly as possible at distances over 100 yards? Want to legally and ethically hunt small game at 100 yards, fine. Want to hunt past that and get a clean kill? Don't waste a minute of your time with a subsonic .223, there are many superior cartridges in every way out there that will do much much better. Some of them can be built as an upper on your friends rifle.

Frog, amoung other, nailed it.
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

The other concern that no one mentioned yet (or I missed it,) is the risk of a squib is high with subsonic 223.
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

Extreme Shock offers ammo that is subsonic for 223 and will cycle the action of an AR15. I have some, its decent. But its nothing more then a 100 yard and in type of ammo. It is effective on groundhogs however...
laugh.gif
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Even if its not moving at optimal speed the 223 will hit and tumble when slowed down. Causing massive trauma to flesh. </div></div>

Not to be disagreeable, but I disagree! The subsonic 223 would most likely not have the energy to cause the tumbling and destabilization that is the source of the larger cavity wounds caused by full velocity 556/223 rounds. Remember it is starting out at about 1/3 of its normal speed.

That being said, a subsonic 223 DOES have merit for hobbyists, hunters, and those "operators" who only want to carry one rifle in baddy-land.

If you have only one can and it is a 223 one, I can understand wanting to have the quiet loads in it even if they don't cycle.

An exciting development in this whole arena is the 300 blackout/whisper. The reasons for buying a dedicated 223 can are pretty unconvincing to me. I have shot a good M4 suppressed and they just don't quiet down well. It is probably about # 6 on my "to-buy" list for suppressors and other class three items. That is besides the point though, as this thread is about loads for a 223.

I would love to see recipes for the 77 grn SMK or a heavy RN bullet that people are using. I will probably play with these someday just for the hell of it.(with a 30 cal suppressor.) You can believe I will be playing with a 300 blackout first though! Full, reliable cycling with subs and a 220 grain pill and ballistics of a 7.62x39 with full velocity ammo! That is a sweet combo!
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: verdugo60</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Even if its not moving at optimal speed the 223 will hit and tumble when slowed down. Causing massive trauma to flesh. </div></div>

Not to be disagreeable, but I disagree! The subsonic 223 would most likely not have the energy to cause the tumbling and destabilization that is the source of the larger cavity wounds caused by full velocity 556/223 rounds. Remember it is starting out at about 1/3 of its normal speed.

That being said, a subsonic 223 DOES have merit for hobbyists, hunters, and those "operators" who only want to carry one rifle in baddy-land.

If you have only one can and it is a 223 one, I can understand wanting to have the quiet loads in it even if they don't cycle.

An exciting development in this whole arena is the 300 blackout/whisper. <span style="color: #CC0000">The reasons for buying a dedicated 223 can are pretty unconvincing to me. I have shot a good M4 suppressed and they just don't quiet down well.</span> It is probably about # 6 on my "to-buy" list for suppressors and other class three items. That is besides the point though, as this thread is about loads for a 223.

I would love to see recipes for the 77 grn SMK or a heavy RN bullet that people are using. I will probably play with these someday just for the hell of it.(with a 30 cal suppressor.) You can believe I will be playing with a 300 blackout first though! Full, reliable cycling with subs and a 220 grain pill and ballistics of a 7.62x39 with full velocity ammo! That is a sweet combo! </div></div>

Are you sure about that? I have many suppressed M4's. From 16" barrel to 10.5" and the suppressors all harness the noise and concussion quite well. I think you may be a little confused as to what you're trying to talk about. My 16" AR with supersonic 77gr ammo is not much louder then a 22 pistol. And you claim it doesn't suppress well? Now that's laughable.
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

What I'm sure about is that on a 20" AR shooting standard 55 grain ammo with a good can is still not pleasant to shoot without ears on. 308 is different. Maybe some slower 77 grain loads would be better.

I'm also sure that a 223 bullet going 900 fps or much slower when hitting flesh is not tumbling much. So laugh it up, but I much prefer a 30 cal can for versatility. 223 cans have their place, just not high on my personal list.
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

Have you ever tested key holing at beyond a 100 yards with subsonics? It happens all the time. They do tumble....
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

6 grs even trailboss under a 77 smk, win brass or LC and rem 71/2 primer, runs right at 1,000 fps and sounds like a pussy fart thru my ops 12th 556
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you ever tested key holing at beyond a 100 yards with subsonics? It happens all the time. They do tumble.... </div></div>

The point is not that they are keyholing when they hit. The point is that they are not going fast enough for it to matter. The tumbling along with the high velocity is what gives the 223 the dramatic effect on target. I also doubt they are doing the tumble trick inside the body at slow speeds. That's all.
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VJJPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6 grs even trailboss under a 77 smk, win brass or LC and rem 71/2 primer, runs right at 1,000 fps and sounds like a pussy fart thru my ops 12th 556 </div></div>

Sounds like the 77's would be good for both Supersonic and Subsonic shooting in the AR suppressed. They sure seem to be popular for the "pro's." Will have to remember that when I get a can on the DMR rifle!
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
From my pespective, the suppressor most likely to disapoint is the .223. It is one of the hardest suppress super sonic rounds to supress and those that want to suppressor it have the lowest tolerance for volume based (larger) designs. Most .223 supressors firing supersonic ammo are loud. Use that same can on a barrel less than 14" and it is VERY LOUD. There is no "hearing safe" .223 with any length barrel, shooting supersonic rounds, with ANY can. It's a myth that will do your ears in over time. Shooting .223? Muff or plug up.

</div></div>

Sorry, I flatly disagree with you. I shoot 5.56 regularly supressed in barrel lengths from 10.5" to 18"

They are hearing safe
 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

Ok, here is the math I've got...

AR-15 in the average of your barrel lengths is 162db
Best can performance is roughly -33
Leaves us with 129dB, we will round it up to 130.

Lets look it up:

Exposure Levels
Noise Level (dBA) Maximum Exposure Time <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="color: #FF0000">per 24 Hours</span></span></span>
85 8 hours
88 4 hours
91 2 hours
94 1 hour
97 30 minutes
100 15 minutes
103 7.5 minutes
106 3.7 minutes
109 112 seconds
112 56 seconds
115 28 seconds
118 14 seconds
121 7 seconds
124 3 seconds
127 1 second
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="color: #FF0000">130–140 less than 1 second</span></span></span>
140 NO EXPOSURE

I too wish that what your are actually hearing was Hearing Safe, it isn't, plug up.


 
Re: Subsonic .223 ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, here is the math I've got...

AR-15 in the average of your barrel lengths is 162db
Best can performance is roughly -33
Leaves us with 129dB, we will round it up to 130.

Lets look it up:

Exposure Levels
Noise Level (dBA) Maximum Exposure Time <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="color: #FF0000">per 24 Hours</span></span></span>
85 8 hours
88 4 hours
91 2 hours
94 1 hour
97 30 minutes
100 15 minutes
103 7.5 minutes
106 3.7 minutes
109 112 seconds
112 56 seconds
115 28 seconds
118 14 seconds
121 7 seconds
124 3 seconds
127 1 second
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="color: #FF0000">130–140 less than 1 second</span></span></span>
140 NO EXPOSURE

I too wish that what your are actually hearing was Hearing Safe, it isn't, plug up.


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I don't beleive in Science. Hush your logic and black magic, this is the internet!