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Surgeon action prices?

M

mike27

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 14, 2006
81
0
Arkansas, Yellville
I got on Surgeons website yesterday and the price of their RSR Rem clone is only $766. Is this correct or has their website not been updated lately? I am going to call on Monday, just looking to see if anyone has bought one lately and what they paid for it and how it compares to stillers tac 30 and the stiller predator.Thank you
mike
 
Re: Surgeon action prices?

That is the correct price.

Stiller and Surgeon are both good, but from all that I've heard, the Surgeon is machined better, has closer tolerances and in general is a better unit. I've only owned Stillers, and am happy with them.

The Stillers allow you to use two-piece Remington scope bases if you so desire (for something such as a lightweight hunting build where you don't want/need the rail). Surgeon uses their own rail.
 
Re: Surgeon action prices?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: darrenk75b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stiller and Surgeon are both good, but from all that I've heard, the Surgeon is machined better, has closer tolerances and in general is a better unit. </div></div>

What exactly made you come to this conclusion? The machining on all of our actions is tight, the tolerances and bolt fit are all edm cut and about .003 diameter diff between bolt and hole. We have the anti-bind rail. I think if you look at our bolt internals they look just like a benchrest action as does the extraction. Just wondering why this statement would be made?? I have heard this before, but really have a hard time understanding why and what is inferior to some of my competitors. If it is truly the case and we can change it, we will.
 
Re: Surgeon action prices?

jerry,

i am very leary of posting anything for fear of being bashed by other members but you asked. i have had several of your receivers and i also have had several surgeon RSR's. first, your customer service is absolutely incredible. THERE IS NONE BETTER. i thank you for that. i think your remington clones are as good as any fundementally FOR OUR APPLICATIONS. what i mean by this is that i think your actions are as strong and true as they could possibly need to be. what surgeon offers is a little more fluff and a couple of things i really like. the double pinned lug is very nice. the pinned rail is just amazing the way it snaps into place before the bolts are even inserted. the bolt shroud on the surgeon is very classy looking. the bolt is one piece with a threaded handle. i think the hard chrome on the surgeon bolt is superior to your bolt coating from a wear perspective. the surgeon RSR uses a remington extractor which some people like vs. your AR type extractor. i do prefer your extractor but i really dont know why. again, your receivers are NICE and you do take very good care of hide members, but surgeons just have the edge in looks i guess.

chuck
 
Re: Surgeon action prices?

Mr. Stiller,

Checked out your site out as a result of this post........damn nice stuff.

Well Done.
 
Re: Surgeon action prices?

Looks? Um, okay.

I'm not taking sides here, truly, but few things kick arse on a board like this than a manufacturer coming on and saying okay, what do I need to do better.

I often wonder in a case like this if it is just people hearing X is better than Y so many times they begin to believe it without really knowing why. Kind of like the bias in the "news" "reporting" one hears these days.

Whether it is an integral rail on the 591, just looks, or "I dunno, that's what everyone says", I hope folks take the time to PM Stiller about it.

I do not, however, suggest that folks start airing their dirty laundry here. Too many times it is "user error" or a fluke but by the time that comes out eight pages and three closed threads later it is too late and the damage is done, fairly or unfairly.
 
Re: Surgeon action prices?

cartman,

you are so high speed that looks make no difference in your decisions? i hope you were not referring to me airing out dirty laundry. i did no such thing. i made an honest assesment IN MY OPINION. i would be willing to bet that jerry took absolutely no offense to anything i said. FOR ME, it simply boils down to looks and a couple of nice features. FOR YOU, it may be something entirely different. if i gave ANY impression i was bashing jerry i am sorry. that is absolutely not the case. were i to build two rifle, one on a surgeon and one on a stiller, and both shot the same, i would take the surgeon for looks. if the stiller shot lights out and the surgeon didnt, i would take the stiller. EVERY TIME.

chuck
 
Re: Surgeon action prices?

NO offense taken. I asked a question and wanted answers. Looks are subjective and everyone has their opinion. The one piece bolt may be in the near future, and it will be a true one piece billet bolt and full handle and screw on knob. Pinned rails will be also next. Changing the code for the shorts and longs today. Lapuas already done. When rails run out of stock they new ones will have the pins too. The hard chrome bolt was basically same as armoloy. Most customers wanted the black bolts instead, went to that for that reason. If the double pinned lug matters that much, we can probably change that too. I really like the AR extractor and it makes it eject with more reliability. The rem extractors are hard to make work at times with what we get from remington. I appreciate the input and look forward to more constructive just the same. I will either do it or not, but will think it out and have a reason either way.

My main worry is that most of the bias is on heresay with many recommending one or the other without ever touching anything else.
 
Re: Surgeon action prices?

Jerry....I would like to see a couple of things.

First, I would like to see the rear portion (last 1/2 inch or so) of the bolt body be a couple of .000 larger than the rest of the body so that the bolt cycles still cycles well but that there is a little tighter clearance when the bolt is in the closed position.

Second, I would recommend a matte finish hard chome for your bolts, that black finish does not hold up real well at all. I was a little disappointed in mine and may hard chrome or NP3 it at some point in the future. Not that it makes any diff in performance.

For giggles - the integral rail makes for a more ridged action but seems to cost more. Don't know if it is better on target or not.

Love your support on this site. Group buys are the only way some of us can afford to feed the addiction. We buy it a piece at a time.
 
Re: Surgeon action prices?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">cartman,

you are so high speed that looks make no difference in your decisions? i hope you were not referring to me airing out dirty laundry. i did no such thing. i made an honest assesment IN MY OPINION. i would be willing to bet that jerry took absolutely no offense to anything i said. FOR ME, it simply boils down to looks and a couple of nice features. FOR YOU, it may be something entirely different. if i gave ANY impression i was bashing jerry i am sorry. that is absolutely not the case. were i to build two rifle, one on a surgeon and one on a stiller, and both shot the same, i would take the surgeon for looks. if the stiller shot lights out and the surgeon didnt, i would take the stiller. EVERY TIME.

chuck </div></div>

No dude, you've got it wrong. It did give me pause that looks was that big of a deal and no, it's never crossed my mind regarding a receiver. A nice piece of walnut for a hand-fitted stock? Yes, looks matter.

What I was warning about had nothing to do with you but with the shit storm that so regularly happens when a manufacturer or their rep gets on this board, folks start making wild claims usually based on hearsay or their own error, tempers flaring as people start fighting about it, the thread gets locked, and the maker refusing to ever return depriving us of a great resource. You've never noticed?

My bad for not making the effort to distinguish exactly what I was getting at. Hopefully that clears it up.
 
Re: Surgeon action prices?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdesign</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Second, I would recommend a matte finish hard chome for your bolts, that black finish does not hold up real well at all. I was a little disappointed in mine and may hard chrome or NP3 it at some point in the future. Not that it makes any diff in performance.
</div></div>

The armoloy is a hard chrome with some additive. When it was put on, the bolt had to be "vapor honed" which I think meant bead blasted with very fine grit in a liquid slurry. They seemed a little rougher at the very start but smoothed up after a few hundred cycles. LOTS of complaints about that got us to the hard black coating. The hard part stays, the black is a dye that is a little iffy. What was the issue with the Armoloy. I can go back to that if the concensus thinks it was better. I dont think I can get rid of the roughness caused by it at the first though. Before the armoloy I used standard hard chrome and it had the same issue.
 
Re: Surgeon action prices?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdesign</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Second, I would recommend a matte finish hard chome for your bolts, that black finish does not hold up real well at all. I was a little disappointed in mine and may hard chrome or NP3 it at some point in the future. Not that it makes any diff in performance.
</div></div>

.... The hard part stays, the black is a dye that is a little iffy...... </div></div>

Obviously you have worked this part of the subject.

I have no complaints on the smoothness of the bolt but the black dye started showing wear before the rifle was even built so I thought that meant the coating was coming off as well.

I like the look but was just expecting it to be more durable than that. I have bolts that I have Duracoated that held their color longer. Maybe the answer is to leave off the dye.
 
Re: Surgeon action prices?

Mr. Stiller

I really admire that you have taken the time PERSONALLY to make comments of peoples concerns to me that means something. I see you do care and you are one of us not just a company with a name but a real person. Nothing is wrong with negative comments. I am the type of person who takes all kinds of advise and that doesnt mean i have to use it just use what advice that makes me even more succussful and i see you doing the same.

Thanks Richard
 
Re: Surgeon action prices?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mussman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Surgeon is the only way to fly! </div></div>

if your going to spend the money on a custom action then +1
 
Re: Surgeon action prices?

I spoke with both action makers today. The lady at Mr. Stillers business said 14 to 16 weeks on the Tac 30.
The lady at Surgeon said they will have some RSR actions ready right after the first of the year. I am going to buy one of these actions but still havent decided which. I have owned one of Stillers Vipers and I currently own a predator and am very pleased with it. I will probably go with the Surgeon due to being able to get it quicker but just dont know yet.Thanks
mike
 
Re: Surgeon action prices?

We have some tac30s in work and will be quicker then that. what boltface. we are running a group buy with really good pricing also you may want to get in on. They will be delivered as soon as any other order put in by the end of the year. I would guess 8 weeks to be much closer or less.
 
Re: Surgeon action prices?

My biggest bitch about the Stiller is Jerry will not offer the 338, 408, or 25X on a group buy. Other than that, I have several Predators and Tacs. I'm just running out of cartridges that I want to build on the short and long actions. I personally like to keep all my guns close to the same and will start phasing out my Remington receivers over the next few years and replace them with Stillers. I just can't see working over a 700 when these actions are so good and at a good price.

Keep the black bolt, screw pinning everything.

Double pinned recoil lugs and scope mounts don't mean diddly to me, nor is a one piece bolt a deal breaker.

I do have one request for a future product. I would like to see a small sheep hunters style action with a maximum .473 bolt face. I, as well as several other people, would like to have a super light 223 Ackley and 7mm-08 Ackley made up for hunting. I like the Model 7 length but would like to see the diameter reduced somewhat like the Kimber Montana and NULA actions.

 
Re: Surgeon action prices?

Keep the black. Diamond black Ionbond the whole deal. That's the way to go. Then up the prices.

Whip up some batches, create a dealer network to support constant batches, and create pricing tiers.

If I call Surgeon, I can get an action in a few (less than 3 weeks). I can buy one on brownells for a bit more or sometimes a bit less. They are available immediately.

You may make and sell the best product anywhere, but if I have to wait, I'm going somewhere else. Time is money. Both yours, but especially mine.

No offense meant.
 
Re: Surgeon action prices?

The Surgeon RLR Action with the Magnum bolt face is very nice, I have one and its beautiful on my .300 Win Mag on an A-5 stock. I would post pics but its out getting painted (Cerakoted) FDE.

Surgeon = Top Shelf
 
Re: Surgeon action prices?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mike27</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I got on Surgeons website yesterday and the price of their RSR Rem clone is only $766. Is this correct or has their website not been updated lately? I am going to call on Monday, just looking to see if anyone has bought one lately and what they paid for it and how it compares to stillers tac 30 and the stiller predator.Thank you
mike </div></div>If you want it you better get it soon if you want that price as their prices are going up the end of the year.
 
Re: Surgeon action prices?

Ive built several rifles on both Surgeon and Stiller, cannot say either is better than the other, they are both very, very good.ersonal preferances may cloud the issue, but "on target", I have seen no discernable differences in the ones ive had in my hands.

Both companies have given me excellent service every time on the infrequent occasions I have had to contact them.

I'd buy either with confidence.

 
Re: Surgeon action prices?

Jerry,

In regards to your FP hole diameter on your 378 (and 473) actions.... where do you stand in regards to factory Remmy? What are your opinions (if you have one) on what would happen if you were to reduce that diameter a smidgen?

A ultra-lightweight action would be cool, even if you were able to just hog out your current offerings to a lighter profile. A lightweight 700 clone that would be priced similar to worked 700 could possibly be a hit with those of us building stuff with weight in mind.
 
Re: Surgeon action prices?

I believe they are .068 diameter on the new ones. Helps piercing issues. Fac remmy are .078. Any lightweight actions we build will be titanium if they are made. I dont believe in the skeletonization of the current ones. Wont be same price though
wink.gif
 
Re: Surgeon action prices?

We may offer a group buy on the lapua and cheytacs this year. Once we have the wraparound handle design fully going they will be much more plentiful and I can have a group buy that I dont unintentionally lie about delivery times on. Maybe on the 25x's also.
 
Re: Surgeon action prices?

Dear Jerry,
As a man of limited funds I have been eager to get my very first customer action, but have had to put it off for much longer than its worth. Obviously I can't yet speak to why some one would prefer the surgeon to one of your actions, but I too was debating which one to get myself. As far as this site goes I believe the surgeons are simply marketed more heavily towards tactical/practical use and your line more towards the F-class/Bench crowd. Sounds like just a need for a marketing push. Lets face it no one likes to admit it but we buy what we see and use it how its portrayed. I can say as a former business owner and some one who spent many years in sales and marketing, you putting yourself out there to field questions directly like this and ask the question what can i do? just sold me. Tac-300 for my 6.5x284 as soon as i have the funds together later this spring. And thank you for supporting the site and community.
 
Re: Surgeon action prices?

Good deal. For some reason, I can't stop thinking about a lightweight rimfire switch barrel squirrel rifle
 
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