Long time lurker and I’ve searched how come I’m not hearing anything about Surgeon actions any more have they gone down hill? Are they not as good as they were? Can I have some opinions!
- Thread starter Semperriddle
- Start date
I agree man! I’ve only ever had a surgeon but after reading about Impact I’m wondering if that’s a tough contender
Impact is similar to surgeon because they stole the design. To ex surgeon employees "designed" that action
So I wouldn’t be gaining anything?
I don't know I have never used one but I have several surgeons and they just flat work
The Impact has better bolt timing according to owners and has tight enough tolerances that you can get a barrel from them without them ever seeing your action.
I've got a surgeon w/sfp and M16 extractor. I really like it. The bolt lift is super smooth.
Wow that’s awesome and it’s already coated which is pretty cool
For 1290 from core I’m really thinking I’m going this way I just wanted to make sure that surgeon hasn’t fell off
Just curious if the "two" that you think "stole" the design had anything to do with the original Surgeon design? . . . asking for a friend.
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Terry please stop with the fuckery.
^^^???
What's funny as fuck is the reason you're pissed at surgeon is because of one of the actions of one of the individuals you are trying to defend. And you should also be smart enough to know that when you develop a product, and then sell the rights to that product, you are not allowed to make knock offs. Wade didn't do shit and you know it. So stop the horseshit.
So did impact license the Surgeon? Or am I misreading this.
So the guys who made impact actions are the original designers of the Surgeon action?
Impacts knocking MFers off the podium that’s it...
I have an AIAT now and have a Mausingfield custom build in my safe too. If I were going to get a R700 footprint action these days it'd be an Impact.
You are not even close to being right on any thing to do with the correct history of things. You have been drinking the wrong Kool-Aide from the wrong people.
I have bolts in various states of completion on a shelf behind my desk.
All of those were from the design and testing phase of the first Surgeon actions that later became the M591.
I have receivers in various states of completion on the same shelf.
They are from the same design and testing phase of the same Surgeon actions that later became the M591.
I have a complete Surgeon "Tactical" action with Serial Number A0001X from the same design period. Quite a few actions were made that were pre-591 markings as they refined the design and manufacturing methods.
I can assure you that Wade was VERY involved in the evolution and design of the action as well as a 3rd person (talented programmer) also adding a few key feature ideas. I personally had many phone calls and more than one face to face visit with the ones designing it in 2003/2004 regarding the project.
There is at least one ex-employee going around saying he designed the M591 when in fact he wasn't even in that loop during the time everything originated. I'm sure you know him.
Mr. Johnson as well as the current owners are very well versed in legal and accounting matters when it comes to business and I.P. They both also have the dollars to execute legal action if any contracts were breached or any I.P. "stolen". I can assure you that if there was any wrong doing, neither group of owners would hesitate to shut it down.
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Surgeon actions are the best designed actions I have used and still use several. I like the original 591 not the "improved" with M16 extractors etc.
I know nothing of the Impact infringement issue.
I have never known Terry to be far off base and tend to believe what he says. Long term good guys get the benefit of the doubt with me.
I know nothing of the Impact infringement issue.
I have never known Terry to be far off base and tend to believe what he says. Long term good guys get the benefit of the doubt with me.
Mr or Mrs Fire ( we have no clue which) I have a suggestion...... If you are going to decide who is pissed and at whom as well as claim somebody is posting "horseshit", you really should have the balls (even if you are a female) to post under your name instead of a cool screen name.
I am definitely NOT pissed at Surgeon. I am really disappointed in them. I would like for them to produce a strong product because everyone will benefit from the competition created with other action manufacturers.
I have been trying to buy a half dozen XL1591 actions from them for months and they keep pushing them back another 8 months. I would drop $10K with them TODAY if they could deliver. I wouldn't be so damned quick to throw money to a company if I was pissed at them.
I have a ton of M591 actions in service with various police agencies and need Surgeon to stay healthy because they are the only source for replacement parts.
I am disappointed with Surgeon because they have not come out with a single new product since they were first acquired by SAC years ago. Not one new product. . . . . .
The many rifles I have built on Surgeon actions are running like a top albeit sometimes only after some corrections were made after receiving them at my shop. I want them to continue to run well and I am counting on them to perform. I have no ill will toward Surgeon at all.
So I am not sure where you extract the idea that I am pissed at the company.
I totally stand by everything I am posting because I was directly involved with it before, during and after everything happened that is in question by you.
You need to stop getting your information from people that have creative imaginations skewed by their own desires to succeed at the cost of others.
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I have to apologize to this forum.
In full disclosure, I was NOT asking for a friend.
I was asking for Terry Cross.
Sorry.
I was being sarcastic and at the same time asking Mr or Mrs Fire to throw some names out there.
"Stole" is a pretty serious word in our little community of inbred booger eaters. So Yes, I am going to challenge your ass whether they are friends or not.
Xs and Os.
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Who were the original designers of Surgeon actions and who designed the Impact action? And if features of the Impact are copied from Surgeon, what are those features? I can't think of any reason this should be confidential information.
Boy, you're sinking deeper. Now you accuse the most respected individual in the long range community of horseshit and fuckery because he was there and knows. What is next? Call Preston a liar too?
I know your timeline of involvement, and what you think you know from third hand info. In August of 2011 you didn't know which end was the muzzle. Preston, Stephen, the Morris brothers and I all got good laugh at your expense at the shop over your .223 woes.
Wade was VERY involved in the development of Surgeon & Impact. No matter what an EX Surgeon employee would like you to believe. I will see if I can get Preston to chime in and clarify things for you. So you can hear it straight from the MAN!! Wade is and always will be a dominating force in the long range precision game.
That sounds like a good argument on the surface but No.
What I said should NOT be taken as a knock to the current design either.
New products do not have to be slaved to an existing product being flawed. New products do not have to be an "improved" version of an existing product. There has been a ton of innovation in our communities. Just look through the last 5 years of things shared in this forum alone. Some are the next evolution and refinement of existing products and some are totally new products from the ground up.
Under the original crew, Surgeon was designing and manufacturing new products quite often.
The 591 was and is a benchmark of reliability and accuracy that a lot of other actions gauge their performance on. The design is solid but delivered product had up and down QC issues after the first acquisition. Can't speak for current production.
Surgeon has more CNC capacity in Phoenix now than at any previous time or place in the company's existence. Accordingly, we would think that they would be wanting to keep those machines as busy as possible yet they can't produce and deliver as many actions as Prague did with much less capacity.
I do not think having a good product is reason to sit on your hands with other endeavors. In fact, it is not a healthy business model in any sector of manufacturing/retail. It suggests that the owners do not have a passion for nor knowledge of the market they are trying to survive in.
When I said "nothing", I meant anything at all whether it is actions or not.
I really do want them to thrive and be strong in the market. I just don't see any movement in that direction.
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**edited because my grammar sucks.
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BCX, please throw a comma in there! LOL.
Didn't work Dee... lol
I know I'm the worst lol. Thank god for spell ck!!!! I need a grammar CK
SO THE CONCLUSION IS? Surgeon is hands down the best? It is probably the most tried-and-true current tactical action in use!!!!!>>>>....... w the exception of a REM 700.?
Yes it's not like Stiller's have been used by our nation's best in combat for years. I can think of 5 or 6 custom actions plus a factory model 70 crf that I would take before a Stiller's any day of the week.
I should have said Surgeon meets my needs better than most other tactical type actions.
I also like AI, pre 64 Win, 98 Mauser, Borden etc. Each has a place in my lineup. My choice depends if I’m shooting elephants at 25 feet or crows at 500 meters.
I have had more issues with the “improved” extractors and triggers than I ever have had with the 700 Rem originals. I have shot the 700 Remington more and had less trouble.
An action is a simple thing. Nothing to fuss about.
Take your pick and drive on.
I also like AI, pre 64 Win, 98 Mauser, Borden etc. Each has a place in my lineup. My choice depends if I’m shooting elephants at 25 feet or crows at 500 meters.
I have had more issues with the “improved” extractors and triggers than I ever have had with the 700 Rem originals. I have shot the 700 Remington more and had less trouble.
An action is a simple thing. Nothing to fuss about.
Take your pick and drive on.
Mr (or Mrs) Fire, I am concerned that either the internet or this forum might be malfunctioning due to the fact that I have not viewed your reply.
You have been on the forum several times since posting in this thread but evidently have decided to disengage.
You are certainly quite active across this forum but mainly seem to come here to sell stuff. I would propose that if the For Sale sections of this forum were to cease to exist, you would have little reason to Log On here.
The O.P. posted this thread in an attempt to get some legit feedback on an action. I'm not even going to feel bad about de-railing his thread because you already did that nicely.
You jumping in and accusing people of theft is a total dick move.
You calling me out for questioning your statement it isn't a dick move. It's just you being you and being ignorant. So poorly executed that it does not warrant the coveted classification of Dick Move.
You accusing people of theft on a public forum with your self righteous and pious demeanor, then expecting everyone to believe you just because you said it is so is the epitome of weak character.
That puts you firmly into the same category and Chuck Schumer and Dianne Feinstein. Scream it and they will deign it to be true because everybody likes drama.
I take that back. Chuck and Dianne are a few notches above you because they act an ass on national TV while showing their face and using their actual names.
If you were just flat ass wrong about an ejector question or facts on shooting, I could care less and would just let you blindly carry on because life is too short to worry with bullshit. However, you are attempting (very poorly I might add) to piss on the reputation of good people.
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Terry Cross, has earned a place at my table. I can assure you that all involved are speaking of details on heresay. He was paramount in teaching and R and D with Preston Prittchett, concept,evaluation and mentor.
Robert Gradous Gradous Rifles
Wasn’t a major match won recently with Surgeon?
Doesn't that have more to do with the shooter lol
It certainly shows that the action isn’t a problem.
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