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Swap Chassis Test

1

1000YARDS

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 30, 2007
119
0
64
Lesterville, MO, 63654
www.mcreesprecision.net
We had fun with this one, figured it worth sharing.

1) rem factory issue M24, verify 100 yrd zero. Bang steel at 600, verify.

2) move same barrel'd action to our M24 long action chassis.

m_mk13_1.jpg


3) confirm 100 yd zero, less that 1 MOA shift right. Correct and verify.

4) engauge same steel at 600, required same come up.

m_mk13_2.jpg


5) swap same barrel'd action to a dif chassis. Confirm impact at 600. Hit, same POI. Continue swap test, results the same. No noticable POI shift.

m_mk13_3.jpg


This is the way it is supposed to be.

Rock on!!!
 
Re: Swap Chassis Test

I dont think we can be for sure, go ahead and send me the M-24 and I will check it with stocks I have laying around
 
Re: Swap Chassis Test

I can understand your able to hold your tolerances super tight but how do you get the consistency considering the lack of tight tolerances on the actions?
 
Re: Swap Chassis Test

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Norcal Phoenix</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can understand your able to hold your tolerances super tight but how do you get the consistency considering the lack of tight tolerances on the actions? </div></div>

With out going into sensative info......

We have found the proper formula that absorbs the rcvr dim variations.

We can measure an ever so slight variance when we bag the guns and go into a BR-group mode.

AFA internal rcvr variances, there is nothing that can be done there. As normal, some will shoot better than others.
 
Re: Swap Chassis Test

How exactly does you stock differ it's bedding from the M-24's stock?

The M-24 is a Rem 700 action bolted into a V-groove in a slab of aluminum that has a composite stock laid-up around it.

You stock looks to be a piece of aluminum, probably with some version of a V-groove in it, that has a Rem 700 and a few other pieces of aluminum bolted to it, kind of like an AICS without the plastic. About the only variatons would be in the placement of the holes for the bolts. Hardly sensative info.

Like your stock though, lots of room for adjustability. Was there any variation in group size standard deviation between stocks? Keep shooting, DC
 
Re: Swap Chassis Test

Interesting test with great results.
Am looking forward to the same test with one of mine.....but more permanent.
laugh.gif
 
Re: Swap Chassis Test

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dinc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How exactly does you stock differ it's bedding from the M-24's stock?

The M-24 is a Rem 700 action bolted into a V-groove in a slab of aluminum that has a composite stock laid-up around it.

You stock looks to be a piece of aluminum, probably with some version of a V-groove in it, that has a Rem 700 and a few other pieces of aluminum bolted to it, kind of like an AICS without the plastic. About the only variatons would be in the placement of the holes for the bolts. Hardly sensative info.

Like your stock though, lots of room for adjustability. Was there any variation in group size standard deviation between stocks? Keep shooting, DC</div></div>

I don't want to speak for 1K, but neither the M24 (HS Precision or B&C) or the McRee's stocks use a V-Groove.
 
Re: Swap Chassis Test

it is a radiused groove, meant to fit the bottom of the action perfectly. As we all know this isn't always optimum as evidenced by the need to 'skim bed' HS stocks when occassionally they don't shoot as well as they could. McRee's stocks are better engineered than the HS or BC bedding blocks, so they will generally improve the rifle's accuracy.
 
Re: Swap Chassis Test

So the McRee stocks don't show any difference when skim-bedded? A long, perfectly straight area machined to hold a tube with bolt holes in it and a perpendicular recoil lug surface on one end is about all you can do to make something that will fit all production Rem 700 actions with their inherent out of roundness. That's why you bed stocks, to take up the variations that occur over the lenth of the action. And why bedding block stocks all benefit from skim bedding, for that custom fit to individual actions.

If you want the stock to be switchable between multiple rifles, don't skim bed it.
 
Re: Swap Chassis Test

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dinc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So the McRee stocks don't show any difference when skim-bedded? A long, perfectly straight area machined to hold a tube with bolt holes in it and a perpendicular recoil lug surface on one end is about all you can do to make something that will fit all production Rem 700 actions with their inherent out of roundness. That's why you bed stocks, to take up the variations that occur over the lenth of the action. And why bedding block stocks all benefit from skim bedding, for that custom fit to individual actions.

If you want the stock to be switchable between multiple rifles, don't skim bed it. </div></div>

DD said it well enough.

We are head to head with the traditional big boys in mil testing programs. This is why I won't give out the exact measurements and data for what we do that makes our chassis system run so well.
Copies are already starting to apear, or at least attempts to copy.

One of the things that make ours run well is that they were born from BR testing and formulas.

 
Re: Swap Chassis Test

dinc,

You don't have to take my word for it, but I will say this, I have run several different stocks (ADD), and I personally shot the best group of my life with my rifle sitting in a McRee's stock, no bedding necessary. The things work, and they improve accuracy, if you don't believe it, get one and test it out. That's all this thread is showing, they tested their stocks, and it doesn't shift POI when swapping their chassis... Doesn't seem like there is too much to argue about

DD
 
Re: Swap Chassis Test

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dinc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So the McRee stocks don't show any difference when skim-bedded? A long, perfectly straight area machined to hold a tube with bolt holes in it and a perpendicular recoil lug surface on one end is about all you can do to make something that will fit all production Rem 700 actions with their inherent out of roundness. That's why you bed stocks, to take up the variations that occur over the lenth of the action. And why bedding block stocks all benefit from skim bedding, for that custom fit to individual actions.

If you want the stock to be switchable between multiple rifles, don't skim bed it. </div></div>

You've answered your own questions in your statement when refering to conventional stocks.

The McRee is not conventional and conventional rules do not seem to apply to it.

I was there for the above testing. I watched the shooter dial in and zero the M-24. The action was pulled out and dropped into the McRee chasis and tourqued down on the line. The POI shift was 1 MOA at 100yds. That particular chasis did not fit the shooter. Another chasis was adjusted for the shooter and the action was swapped. The result was "0", no, none, nada POI shift. Performance (ie: group size) was reduced in both of the McRee chasis' compared to the HS M-24 stock.

If you don't believe it, that's fine, but try it yourself before pontificating upon why it won't work.

Cheers,

Doc
 
Re: Swap Chassis Test

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The result was "0", no, none, nada POI shift. Performance (ie: group size) was reduced in both of the McRee chasis' compared to the HS M-24 stock.

If you don't believe it, that's fine, but try it yourself before pontificating upon why it won't work.

Cheers,

Doc</div></div>

Man just think how much less shift we could have achieved if it wasn't one of those "docs" shooting HAHAHAHA

 
Re: Swap Chassis Test

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DebosDave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it is a radiused groove, meant to fit the bottom of the action perfectly.
</div></div>

Interesting - that is not the way the HSP 700P stock performs. Note the alu bedding block (shape a matter of debate) marks on a brand new 700P just taken out of the stock.

PICT0014-1.jpg

PICT0017-2.jpg

 
Re: Swap Chassis Test

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NineHotel</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DebosDave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it is a radiused groove, meant to fit the bottom of the action perfectly.
</div></div>

Interesting - that is not the way the HSP 700P stock performs. Note the alu bedding block (shape a matter of debate) marks on a brand new 700P just taken out of the stock.

</div></div>

It is not the way it does perform, but it certainly is the way it is SUPPOSED to perform LOL, that is exactly the inconsistency that requires some of the HS stuff to be bedded.

Dave
 
Re: Swap Chassis Test

YUP, not to hijack, but the 700 sits in a block that allows it to ride along the edges. That is infact pretty good contact there in that P.

I came in late on this one, are you pitching those stocks to the Army and the rest of em? if so great, they seem to work well, and I sure would like a better fitting stock than the one on my 24 right now. I like the new semi's for what they are but when possible im a bolt man. nice product! wish you the best!
C_K
 
Re: Swap Chassis Test

Apparently Ed at HS Precision is confused regarding the issue as well. I asked him how the bedding block is supposed to work on a 700P with their stock. He said:

"It provides consistent contact on the sides of the receiver. It is not designed to fit the radius of the action. This is a common misconception."

Glad we cleared that up.
 
Re: Swap Chassis Test

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Later</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The result was "0", no, none, nada POI shift. Performance (ie: group size) was reduced in both of the McRee chasis' compared to the HS M-24 stock.

If you don't believe it, that's fine, but try it yourself before pontificating upon why it won't work.

Cheers,

Doc</div></div>

Man just think how much less shift we could have achieved if it wasn't one of those "docs" shooting HAHAHAHA

</div></div>

Tttthhhhhhbbbbbppppptttttt!!!!!

And just how much UP did you need in that scope to get it to work correctly
laugh.gif
Had a good time we'll have to do it again but on a longer range
wink.gif
Oh and I want to see the Diplomat all done.

Cheers,

Doc
 
Re: Swap Chassis Test

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NineHotel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Apparently Ed at HS Precision is confused regarding the issue as well. I asked him how the bedding block is supposed to work on a 700P with their stock. He said:

"It provides consistent contact on the sides of the receiver. It is not designed to fit the radius of the action. This is a common misconception."

Glad we cleared that up.</div></div>

I stand corrected.
laugh.gif
 
Re: Swap Chassis Test

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chris_K</div><div class="ubbcode-body">YUP, not to hijack, but the 700 sits in a block that allows it to ride along the edges. That is infact pretty good contact there in that P.

I came in late on this one, are you pitching those stocks to the Army and the rest of em? if so great, they seem to work well, and I sure would like a better fitting stock than the one on my 24 right now. I like the new semi's for what they are but when possible im a bolt man. nice product! wish you the best!
C_K </div></div>

First and foremost, "Thank You" for your service to our great nation.

Yes we are pitching to the military, and doing very well, so far.
Thanks for the nice words, maybe one day they will be your issued chassis.

Thanks to the others posting up great Q's and Answers.

My objective with this post was to share part of what we designed into our system. Our chassis is supposed to provide a wide range of options for the end user, this is just one of them.

Another one is to be able to switch from MK13 to M24, swap barreled action and magazine. Zero for ea stays as it was set, using same torque on the action screws.

For civilian side there are advantages too.

Got to run, check in later.
 
Re: Swap Chassis Test

Bought a used AI 1.5 long action stock a couple years ago.

That stock's mounting bar, which the skins fasten to, was off by about .025". I tried 3 different Rem 700 long actions, in that stock/mounting bar. When action screws were tightened the magazine would not properly lock-in with the action. Turned out the recoil lug slot was not machined correct. It was .025" too long, and the recoil lug could not rest flush to the notch machined; anyway the poor dimensional inspection on this stock imparted a cant to the action so the mag would not line up and the stock was useless.

Not exactly a drop-in fit. I returned the stock and the seller was gracious about it.

Also own a Sako TRG 42 which uses a similar action mount bar, only the bar does not extend back into the butt area as the AI design does.

Pretty amazing that both these stocks shot to same impact even with same torque values on same action. Yet, if I were trying to demonstrate my product in a sales situation, I would be sure that each demo model was exactly duplicate of the other, down to the last .0001" in the action mount and recoil lug fit areas.

What else is there? Working with the same action, the same mount bar, and identical action screws torqued to the same value; why would there be a shift?

I didn't care for the weight of the AI stock system. Seems for $800 they could employ honeycomb technology and save weight. Downhill skis are pretty damn tough. Hexcel made a great name with that technology. Does a stock need to be capable for battering ram duty? No.

Congrats to the OP for a nice looking design. Wish you much success.
 
Re: Swap Chassis Test

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gugubica</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What kind of lead time do you have on a "Hunter" single shot inletted for a Lawton 8000? </div></div>

In stock, lead time only relates to your coating option chosen.

Give a ring.
 
Re: Swap Chassis Test

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1000YARDS+</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gugubica</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What kind of lead time do you have on a "Hunter" single shot inletted for a Lawton 8000? </div></div>

In stock, lead time only relates to your coating option chosen.

Give a ring. </div></div>

Out-freakin-standing. Will do! Order for two chassis comin your way.
 
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