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swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

ubet

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
May 28, 2008
166
84
Commifornia no longer
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/guns...ts-home-over-g/

While Army Sgt. Matthew Corrigan was sound asleep inside his Northwest D.C. home, the Metropolitan Police Department (MPD) was preparing to launch a full-scale invasion of his home. SWAT and explosive ordnance disposal (EOD) teams spent four hours readying the assault on the English basement apartment in the middle of the snowstorm of the century.



(This is part two of a four part series on Sgt. Corrigan's case. Click here to read the first story.)

The police arrested the veteran of the Iraq war and searched his house without a warrant, not to protect the public from a terrorist or stop a crime in progress, but to rouse a sleeping man the police thought might have an unregistered gun in his home.

It all started a few hours earlier on Feb. 2, 2010, when Sgt. Corrigan called the National Veterans Crisis Hotline for advice on sleeping because of nightmares from his year training Iraqi soldiers to look for IEDs in Fallujah. Without his permission, the operator, Beth, called 911 and reported Sgt. Corrigan “has a gun and wants to kill himself.”

According to a transcript of the 911 recording, Beth told the cops that, “The gun’s actually on his lap.” The drill sergeant told me he said nothing of the kind, and his two pistols and rifle were hidden under clothes and in closets, to avoid theft.

So around midnight, the police arrived at the row house at 2408 N. Capitol Street. Over the next two hours, several emergency response team units were called to the scene, calling in many cops from home.



Police memos from that night describe the situation as involving a man who is, “threatening to shoot himself,” but “doesn’t want to hurt anybody.”

None of the cops’ documents indicate a threat that warranted a “barricade” and the closure of several streets to create “an outer perimeter that prohibited both traffic and pedestrian access.” With dozens of cops on the scene, they created a “staging area” two blocks away.

‘Rambo’

Around 1 a.m., the police knocked on the door of Tammie Sommons, the upstairs neighbor in the row house. Ms. Sommons had lived there since 2008 with her three roommates and, in that time, had become a close friend of Sgt. Corrigan. She had a key to his apartment and often walked his dog Matrix.

“I opened the door to this scene with three cops with guns pointed at Matt’s door,” she recalled in an interview this week. “One officer told me that Matt called a suicide hotline and was about to kill himself. I said that was impossible, he wasn’t that kind of guy. I told the police I see him every day and would know if he was suicidal.”



Over the next hour, Ms. Sommons repeatedly told the police she was sure that Sgt. Corrigan was merely sleeping. She knew he took prescription sleeping pills because of repeated nightmares from his year in Iraq. The cops wouldn’t listen to her.

“I said to the police, ‘You guys are making a big mistake. He’s not what you think,’” recalled Ms. Sommons. She offered to go downstairs and clear up the situation, but the police would not let her.

The officers asked her whether Sgt. Corrigan owned any guns. “I said, of course he has guns, he’s in the military,” she replied. Ms. Sommons had never seen the sergeant’s guns, but she is from a military family, in which gun ownership was the norm. She was truthful with the police because she was not aware the District requires registration of every gun.

This month, the U.S. House passed a nonbinding amendment, sponsored by Rep. Phil Gingrey, that said active military living in or stationed in D.C. should not be bound by the stringent firearm laws. Were such a law in place two years ago, Sgt. Corrigan would not have been targeted by the police.



MPD told Ms. Sommons that someone had reported that there was the smell of gas coming from Sgt. Corrigan’s apartment. “I told them that there was no gas in his apartment -- it was all electric,” she recalled. “I said if they smelled something, it’s just my roommate who was cooking chicken parmesan.”

Still, the police refused to accept the simpler explanation. “The cops said we needed to leave our house because Matt was going to shoot through the ceiling,” Ms. Sommons said. “They painted this picture like Rambo was downstairs and ready to blow up the place.”

At 3 a.m., the police called in an EOD unit -- the bomb squad. They brought in negotiators. They had the gas company turn off the gas line to the house. A few minutes before 4 a.m., they started calling Sgt. Corrigan’s cell phone, but they got no answer because he turned it off before going to bed. They woke him up by calling his name on a bullhorn. He then turned on the phone and was told to surrender outside.

Arrested Without Cause

When the police wouldn’t accept Sgt. Corrigan’s word that he was fine, he was forced to leave his home and surrender. When he stepped outside, he faced assault teams with rifles pointed at his chest. He immediately dropped to his knees, with his hands over his head.

Officers in full protective gear zip-tied Sgt. Corrigan's hands behind his back and pulled him up from his knees, forcing him into a large tactical command center called the “BEAR” which was parked at the staging area.



Although police did not read Sgt. Corrigan his Miranda rights, they questioned him inside the tactical truck. They asked the Iraq veteran basic questions about his life from various angles to get him to admit to owning guns. He remained silent about his two handguns and one rifle, which he had not registered after moving into the city.

Suddenly a police commander jumped in the truck and demanded to know where Sgt. Corrigan put his house key. He refused.

“I’m not giving you the key. I’m not giving consent to enter my house,” Sgt. Corrigan recalled saying in an interview with me last week at D.C. Superior Court after the city dropped all 10 charges against him.

“Then the cop said to me, ‘I don’t have time to play this constitutional bullshit with you. We’re going to break your door in, and you’re going to have to pay for a new door.’”

“‘Looks like I’m buying a new door,’” Sgt. Corrigan responded. “He was riffed”

Realizing quickly that his house would get raided without his permission, he asked for one thing from the police. “I said, ‘Please don’t hurt my dog. He’s friendly. He’s a good dog. Please don’t hurt him.’ They said they wouldn’t.”

The police then took Sgt. Corrigan to the VA hospital, still with his hands restrained. He didn’t want to be put in the hospital against his will, so he was okay with being left there temporarily. He signed himself in for help.

“After having all those guns at me, I was broken,” he said, pointing again at his chest, where he’d seen the rifle red laser dots. “I hadn’t slept in days, I just wanted to sleep.”

The reservist spent three nights in the hospital. When he got out, the police were waiting to arrest him for the unregistered guns found when they raided his home, without a warrant.

Search, Seizure, but no Warrant

Since Since Sgt. Corrigan refused to permit a search of his house, the police had to break down his door. The cops, however, didn’t bother to wait for a search warrant before doing so. “They were all keyed up because they had been there and ready to go all night,” surmised Sgt. Corrgian’s attorney Richard Gardiner.

The first to enter the apartment with the supposedly dangerous apartment was the Emergency Response Team, which secured the dog Matrix and gave him over to animal control, according to police reports. Only then did the EOD personnel enter to search using portable x-ray equipment.

During the “explosive threat clearing efforts,” police reported finding the sergeant’s “hazardous materials,” which included two pistols and a rifle, binoculars and ammunition. The report also details how it took the combined efforts of the police, EOD and the D.C. Fire Department to seize the “military ammunition can that contained numerous fireworks type devices.” These were fireworks left over from the Fourth of July.

Also taken into evidence was what the police described as a “military smoke grenade” and “military whistler device.” This smoke-screen canister and trip wire were put in Sgt. Corrigan’s rucksack in 1996 by his squad leader and had long been forgotten over the years. EOD took custody of the smoke grenade and whistle. The rest of the the materials were handed over to the crime scene search department at 7:30 a.m.



Police Lt. R.T. Glover was pleased with the seven hour operation that resulted in finding three unregistered guns in D.C. In his report to Police Chief Cathy L. Lanier, he concluded that, “as a result of this barricade incident, there are no recommendations for improvement with respect to overall tactical operations.”

Police Destruction

The dry after-action notes from the police following the operation give no clue to the property damage done to Sgt. Corrigan’s home. They tore apart the 900 square foot place.

Instead of unzipping luggage, the police used knives to cut through and destroy the bags. They dumped over the bookshelves, emptied closets, threw the clothes on the floor.

In the process, they knocked over the feeding mechanism for the tropical fish in the sergeant’s six-foot long aquarium. When he was finally released from jail two weeks later, all of his expensive pet fish were dead in the tank.



The guns were seized, along with the locked cases, leaving only broken latches behind. The ammunition, hidden under a sleeping bag in the utility closet, was taken. They broke Sgt. Corrigan’s eyeglasses and left them on the floor. The police turned on the electric stove and never turned it off and left without securing the broken door.

When Ms. Sommons came back to her home the next day, she looked into Sgt. Corrigan’s apartment. “I was really upset because it was ransacked. It made me lose respect for the police officers involved,” she said, the stepdaughter of a correctional officer.

“Here was Matt, who spent a year fighting for our country in Iraq -- where these police would never set foot in -- and they treat him like trash off the street.”



In February, Sgt. Corrigan filed a civil suit against the District asking for a minimum of $500,000 in damages for violating his Fourth Amendment right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures. His attorney, Mr. Gardiner, intends to add some of the individual officers to the suit when they are identified in discovery.

NEXT IN THE SERIES: Iraq vet is lost in DC jail
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
“Here was Matt, who spent a year fighting for our country in Iraq -- where these police would never set foot in -- and they treat him like trash off the street.” </div></div>

^^This

That's the last time he'll trust anyone in the government. I hope he gets far more than just the $500,000.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/guns...ts-home-over-g/

“I’m not giving you the key. I’m not giving consent to enter my house,” Sgt. Corrigan recalled saying in an interview with me last week at D.C. Superior Court after the city dropped all 10 charges against him.

“Then the cop said to me, ‘I don’t have time to play this constitutional bullshit with you. We’re going to break your door in, and you’re going to have to pay for a new door.’”
</div></div>

Ain't that some crap!
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

One day, the freed men, backs scarred and living with memories of a foreign land that seems more like home than here, will learn not to set up their new residence next to the auction block and slave-market of D.C.

Did Beth the Crisis Hotline operator lie? Did Sgt. Corrigan say those things but just not remember? Transcripts can be edited, but audio, though able to be edited, cannot contain the man's voice saying those things unless he said them I would think.

If I've learned one thing in my time in the Army and since, it's don't say a friggin word to anyone official about having a hard time. They either ignore you or treat you like a serial killer because you just want to sleep.

The VA is one of the most nefarious enemies of the Veteran, particularly in mental health.

What's worse, is the military only makes an effort to treat 2/3rds of a man: Physical (generally good) and mental (good luck), totally ignoring the spiritual. Chaplains are hamstrung, if not outright tools and deserving of a good pop in the mouth.

I had written an article on this issue, but held off on posting it to the blog. I have been seeing more and more stories lately where my postulations have been coming back into my face. I think I will have to dig up the article and find a chaplain worth his position to provide some truth. I've read the manuals- they are not able to be chaplains as a chaplain needs to be.

The mental health pushes drugs which are often anti-psychotics, heavy doses of anti-depressants, etc. I was personally lied to by the VA doc more than once, and the last time was the last straw. I asked for a mere sleep med, expressed that I did not want anything else as it made me a zombie. He agreed and said he would give me a sleep med other than ambien. I looked it up when I got home. It was an anti-psychotic. I'm not psychotic. Never was. They know that. They have my medical records. I've even read those portions myself and made sure I understood the language from a medical perspective. The VA is fucking evil. I DO NOT go to the VA, nor any other doctor. I take my chances. They're just experimenting. They don't know wtf they're doing.

The man just wanted to sleep. That's it. If he's like I was a few years ago and like many of my friends are, he is not and was never a danger to himself or others. He just wanted to sleep. Instead he woke up to the sort of nightmare every vet should rightly have these days:

Thank you for your service; get on the ground, bitch.

Fuck the VA, fuck the D.C. police, and fuck this war. Win it or bring em home.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

Id ask for triple that amount.... what a same to treat a vet like that after what he has been thru. He should also sue the hotline operator for releasing his personal information without consent.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

Hmm well.
Its to my understanding that psychiatrists and these hotlines have to report you of they are told you have intentions of harming yourself or others.
what I feel is suspiciously downplayed is why he called a crisis hotline and what was the content of the call. How did the operator know he had a gun? -KEY MISSING ELEMENT HERE. what was said to trigger EOD response? I dont know so all I have is speculation. But the described offenses fit the character. He had PTSD , he made the call, he had eod training. The mental capibility is there.
The police act on information given: assuming they got a suicidal shooter, possible bomb threat.
Then barricades, swat entry, and eod sounds reasonable. Yes the resident said no gas, so what did PD turn off? Gas? Hmmm well well.
They have him surrender and cuff him. Okay.
He is uncoperative about information on possesing firearms. (my priority would be the bomb threat. Which is another KEY POINT MISSING) was he coopertive with that information. I speculate NO , because EOD entered. Its to my understanding that police have the right to enter if they feel a crime is being committed or a danger to the public is know (you know like a bomb)
So they entered and searched. Guess what they found supporting evidence. His place was torn up, yeah raids arent pretty. His bags were knifed, yeah zippers can conceal triggers. Maybe the xray equipment picked up something.
Again dont get mad at me this is speculation.

Does he have a case, sure. Will it probably take years to reach a settlement, more than likely.
Key elements are missing here.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
what I feel is suspiciously downplayed is why he called a crisis hotline and what was the content of the call. How did the operator know he had a gun? -KEY MISSING ELEMENT HERE.</div></div>

I agree that there is some missing info here but how is putting him in jail for two weeks and destroying his life with a SWAT team going to make him feel less suicidal? Are these police so scared and stupid that they can't recognize a <span style="font-weight: bold">call for help</span> and instead of sending a few uniforms to politely knock on the door and see if he needs help, they need a SWAT team?

Who's to say that the guy didn't call and say "I'm having nightmares" and the woman asked him if he had any guns and just assumed that he was suicidal or just as likely objects to guns in general and made a false report. Either way it sounds like your classic over-reaction but we'd need to hear the tapes to be sure.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Id ask for triple that amount.... what a same to treat a vet like that after what he has been thru. He should also sue the hotline operator for releasing his personal information without consent. </div></div>

It is a shame any US Citizen is treated like that.

Those Police thugs need to be sent to a pound me in the ass prison.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">“Then the cop said to me, ‘I don’t have time to play this constitutional bullshit with you.</div></div>

It's a shame the cops are hamstrung by the fourth and fifth amendments. This could have easily gone the other way with hundreds, if not thousands of cops dying at the hands of this psychotic individual.

Sarcasm aside, I am surprised they didn't kill the dog.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Sarcasm aside, I am surprised they didn't kill the dog. </div></div>

"You dont get it, they killed my dog." Mark Whalburg
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

Were the cops wrong? Yeah, they were very fucking wrong and they DID violate his constitutional right(s).

What it comes down, though, is that bitch of a National Veterans Crisis Hotline advisor, Beth.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

ah fuck this shit is gay.leave the guy alome hes a fuckin vet and the assholes that came to his house that night should have there ass whooped.if my boss wanted me to do something like that i would quit on the spot,then punch him in his face.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

What it comes down, though, is that bitch of a National Veterans Crisis Hotline advisor, Beth.[/quote]

That lady caused the crisis.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

I'm not suprised. This is what happens when there is a complete lack of accountability in our police state.. I mean law enforcement community. These kind of stories make me sick, but in this case I love the quote "I don’t have time to play this constitutional bullshit with you. We’re going to break your door in, and you’re going to have to pay for a new door." I love how a law enforcement officer has no regard for the ULTIMATE law of the land. F*cking retard.

I just hope he was able to get his dog back from animal control when he got out of jail. I know the VA uses dogs to help vets cope with the issues they face when they get back. They help out a lot.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrgfox</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What it comes down, though, is that bitch of a National Veterans Crisis Hotline advisor, Beth.</div></div>

That lady caused the crisis. [/quote]

no... the 'crisis' happened when there was a complete lack of any critical thinking and adherence to the LAW by the LEO (if the account given is complete and accurate).

A person in a call center is not responsible for the series of illegal clusterfucks performed by so-called professionals.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A person in a call center is not responsible for the series of illegal clusterfucks performed by so-called professionals.</div></div>

She started the Charlie Foxtrot if she's too stupid to understand what he said...or lied.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bgbill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Those Police thugs need to be sent to a pound me in the ass prison. </div></div>

Scrap, got any?
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

Something not right about that story! Just for my knowledge; if someone claims to have a gun (illegal in DC) and threatens to hurt themselves; do they need a warrant? Obviously he had a gun! Btw, if you guys follow this site; you know I am not ProLeo so don't even go there! Quite possible that some of the pertinent info may have been left out.The good thing is no one really got hurt including the dog.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

while I typically side w/ the non LE...

this dipshit probably did say he had a gun and was going to hurt himself or someone else... probably also said something about a bomb...

I'd guess he was drunk.fucked up on his pills and made the call, but doesn't know what all he said.

I personally think LE did the right thing here
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

If he called a help center, it was recorded. The call to 911 will be recorded. Unfortunately those will not be released until well after the court of public opinion has ruled and forgotten the issue.

If the officers were dispatched on an armed and suicidal combat veteran call, why would they not respond appropriately?

Reporters can get two facts right most of the time, time and location. Anything beyond that is subject to change, and frequently does.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

Being a vet myself I know what kind of shit they can throw at us.
I was pestered by phone once to fill out an anonymous health survey.
Even though I said no they still sent the paperwork to me even though I never gave my name or address over the phone.
Then I decided to check out how genuine it was . I did not fill it out at all . Cut out the bar code and and numbers on it posted it back in a new envelope with no return address.
Guess what , I got a phone call saying I had forgot to fill it out.
If it was anonymous how did they know who sent it back . I worked out in the end that the pages have secret invisible coding that identifies who they were sent to originally even if the bar code was removed .
This is the depth of criminal deceit that our Governments get up to in invading our privacy and trampling on our rights.
The company doing the research was a private pollster and under the law was not bound by the privacy act like a Government department is . So it could just sell the info to the Government.
This was the way the Government got around the law I reckon.
Anyway there is no such thing as anonymous and no veteran should tell any phone counselling worker anything at all or ever ring them . All veterans should realise that the Police see us as a big potential threat because of our training , instead of how they should see us . The Police are a bigger threat to public safety than ex war veterans .
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

Its sad what police are able to do and noone is ever really punished. Except the taxpayers who have to pay the settlements.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Country</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Being a vet myself I know what kind of shit they can throw at us.
I was pestered by phone once to fill out an anonymous health survey.
Even though I said no they still sent the paperwork to me even though I never gave my name or address over the phone.
Then I decided to check out how genuine it was . I did not fill it out at all . Cut out the bar code and and numbers on it posted it back in a new envelope with no return address.
Guess what , I got a phone call saying I had forgot to fill it out.
If it was anonymous how did they know who sent it back . I worked out in the end that the pages have secret invisible coding that identifies who they were sent to originally even if the bar code was removed .
This is the depth of criminal deceit that our Governments get up to in invading our privacy and trampling on our rights.
The company doing the research was a private pollster and under the law was not bound by the privacy act like a Government department is . So it could just sell the info to the Government.
This was the way the Government got around the law I reckon.
Anyway there is no such thing as anonymous and no veteran should tell any phone counselling worker anything at all or ever ring them . All veterans should realise that the Police see us as a big potential threat because of our training , instead of how they should see us . The Police are a bigger threat to public safety than ex war veterans . </div></div>

So how about a combat vet with bad PTSD who is a cop. Oh, wait, those dont exist, right? WRONG. I use to work with one. Your training has nothing to do with it. There are thousands of vets that have seen some shit, and live out happy healthy lives. (whisper) Pssst, and ya know what? The cops could give a rats ass about their ability to be a threat. SHHHHH, our secret, ok? (whisper off)

What does concern police is someone who has seen so much shit that they cant remember where they are, or if they should be fighting still. The reason that is look upon as threatening, is not because of training. Its because, as a veteran, one of your tasks was very well likely, killing the enemy. Thats something that can take a toll on a person. For the same reason there have been firemen who like starting fires, and nurses who kill patients, some people just seem to get the wires crossed, including vets.

Someone already stated the crediblity of the media, and too many people here give way to much credit to them. Much like the Zimmerman debate, the jury is out on this one unless there are some more facts. BUT, based on the article, and only on the article, yes, the cops went way too far, but they did it based off of false or misleading information. I know, I know, it couldnt make some of you happier than to blame it all on the cops, but the big picture, if "Beth" hadnt called and said what she said, do you think it would have gone this far?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Police are a bigger threat to public safety than ex war veterans . </div></div> Got any more opinions to back up your opinions?
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertrat1979</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Police are a bigger threat to public safety than ex war veterans . </div></div> Got any more opinions to back up your opinions? </div></div>

Well I know it has a lot of opinions in it and it is pretty left leaning but the link is to a 103 page report which shows quite a few cases of where this conclusion can be drawn for some people.

<<http://www.cato.org/publications/white-paper/overkill-rise-paramilitary-police-raids-america>>

I don't agree with 100% of the stuff the report says, but I did do a little fact checking and he didn't fabricate any of the events. The report is actually really disturbing.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

Here's some irony for you: I just received a letter in the mail from the VA welcoming me home as well as stating that, "...the Veterans Crisis Hotline is available 24 hours a day, 365 days a year...A staff of specially trained, qualified, and caring VA couselors... are standing by to provide you and your family free, <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">CONFIDENTIAL </span></span>support."

Yeah, I won't ever be using this "service."
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

Confidential doesn't apply to threats of suicide and violence, i.e. crime.

One has to be very careful in their wording when talking to counselors and shrinks from the VA, etc. They're very good at steering the conversation into "we need to medicate you and make you feel even more indebted to us!"

I don't use the VA on general principle. Their asshattery was plain from day 1.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

Even the victim has some problems (fault?) in this scenario: Firearms in DC and not registered? He was wrong out the gate. No amount of excuses as to why he didn't have time to do the proper paperwork (whether he agrees with it or not, he chose to live in that shithole, he has to play by THEIR rules) will get him off the basic problem, or get his guns back.
Remember the puppy-stomper, and her minions? That occurred at a registered FFA dealer! tore his house up, left the doors wide open and the home unsecured, while he was in the slammer trying to bail out. No one but the VIc paid for that one either.
The slippery slope is a lot steeper than most of us ever suspected.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

And the cops and VA wonder why people don't trust them. After reading this BS my respect for cops and govt is at its lowest. MM
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

Stories like this are why myself and many other Vet's have never sought any help whatsoever for combat stress related issues.

Who knows the entirety of the story, maybe there was more said over the phone than we know, maybe not.

The bottom line is stories like this are why Vet's dont seek help.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

Police LT. Glover wrote in his report to Chief Lanier "no recommendations for improvement with respect to overall tactical operations". So if i understand him right then this is SOP for the D.C. police dept. Also Chief Lanier must have told her Dept to forget the right's of the people. Shit falls from the highest level and stops with the beat cop. MM
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

Thank God I found another cop bashing thread.

This was a lose-lose for the the veteran and for the cops.

Have none of you ever heard of exigent circumstance?

The guy was apparently suicidal, he called a help line and the the help line called the police.

Why did the help line call the police?
Maybe because he said he was fucking suicidal and had the means and the opportunity to commit suicide.

The cops were working from information from a credible source.

If they hadn't gone in, you same motherfuckers would be here bitching about LE ignoring a cry for help.

How many of you have entered a home with an armed, suicidal subject?

Let me tell you, it is a very uncomfortable feeling.

This was an hatchet job by the press.
I am not saying things couldn't have been done differently, but they must react and react quickly.

Most of you seem to be missing the big picture, the veteran is still alive, so it was a WIN for everyone.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

^^^ The only one who said he was suicidal was the "Crisis" line operator.

You seem to infer a lot of stuff that simply isn't said. Nor is there evidence to point there outside of some reactionary bitch's hearsay evidence. Good cop work.
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Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

And some people still wonder why more veterans, and even non-military citizens are reluctant to admit that they want some help. Asking for help didn't do this poor fellow much good.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">^^^ The only one who said he was suicidal was the "Crisis" line operator.

You seem to infer a lot of stuff that simply isn't said. Nor is there evidence to point there outside of some reactionary bitch's hearsay evidence. Good cop work.
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So, tell me again why he called the crisis hotline?
How did she come to the conclusion he may be suicidal?
Tell me again how she knew he had firearms?
Are you absolutely certain that she was just a "reactionary bitch"?
Do you know her personally?
Have you evaluated her training?
Do you believe everything that comes out of an ambulance chasers mouth?
Do you believe every fucking thing printed in a newspaper or reported on the news?
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">
So, tell me again why he called the crisis hotline?</span>

Can you not read? It's plain English: "called the National Veterans Crisis Hotline <span style="font-weight: bold">for advice on sleeping</span> because of nightmares from his year training Iraqi soldiers to look for IEDs in Fallujah."

<span style="font-weight: bold">How did she come to the conclusion he may be suicidal?</span>
probably because she's a reactionary libtard bitch.
"Beth told the cops that, “The gun’s actually on his lap.” <span style="font-weight: bold">The drill sergeant told me he said nothing of the kind</span>, and his two pistols and rifle were hidden under clothes and in closets, to avoid theft."



<span style="font-weight: bold">Tell me again how she knew he had firearms?</span>
Probably because that is a question which is routinely asked when someone calls a hotline like that, as it is standard mental health stuff. Anyone who has sat through a VA visit knows that. He probably said yes not realizing she was going to go all "to the rescue!" on him.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Are you absolutely certain that she was just a "reactionary bitch"?</span>

Based on the Sergeant's own admission that he said nothing about being suicidal or having a gun in his lap, yep. I'll take his word over her's.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Do you know her personally?</span>
No, but I know her type and the reactionary stupidity they come up with. Been subject to it myself before I put the brakes on it with a very unequivocal statement in a command voice as to what I was definitely NOT planning on doing.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Have you evaluated her training?</span>
No, but I know the sort of training she would receive... it's largely reactionary these days.
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<span style="font-weight: bold">Do you believe everything that comes out of an ambulance chasers mouth?</span>

Who is chasing amberlamps? This is an article based on an interview, duh.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Do you believe every fucking thing printed in a newspaper or reported on the news?</span>
No, but I'm also able to use my own experiences and knowledge on situations such as this and the military health system, crisis lines, counseling training, and the 'OH MY GOD A VETERAN WITH A GUN' mentality many police and civilians have-- particularly in that nancy, liberal cesspool of DC.

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Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

You are taking the words that he has been coached to say from his personal injury lawyer as gospel truth.

I don't have a problem with him seeking recompense for the damages to his home and I most certainly hope he is not being charged with a criminal offense for weapons possession.

This will most likely end in a settlement and the ambulance chaser will pad his pockets.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are taking the words that he has been coached to say from his personal injury lawyer as gospel truth. </div></div>

You clearly won't even consider he's telling the truth.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Something not right about that story! Just for my knowledge; if someone claims to have a gun (illegal in DC) </div></div>

Guns are no longer illegal in DC, though you will pay through the ass and jump through hoops like a show dog to legally register them, IF the one you want to buy/transfer in meets the criteria for "accepted weapons".

Also, as far as "having the means" to commit suicide? Well gee, is there any glass in his house? Sleeping pills? Rope? Shoe strings? A person doesn't have to have military/LEO training to figure out how to commit suicide.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are taking the words that he has been coached to say from his personal injury lawyer as gospel truth. </div></div>

You clearly won't even consider he's telling the truth.
</div></div>

I have a lot of experience dealing with similar situations.

The stories are mostly half-truths or outright lies (from both sides)

If you can't recognize a story that was written with an agenda, then you must get fooled frequently.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

You detect nothing. You are blind to the truth.
I speak from experience.

I have no agenda.

There were two obvious agendas, the original newspaper story and the reposting of it here
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You detect nothing. You are blind to the truth.
I speak from experience.

I have no agenda.

There were two obvious agendas, the original newspaper story and the reposting of it here</div></div>

Zee stormtroopers can do no vrong! Vee vill protect zee peoples one arrest at a time!!

Molon labe
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

So can anyone justify the search of his home?
Do we lose our Constitutional rights because someone calls a cop and says we are suicide risk- in other words is the mere allegation considered exigent circumstances?
Why did they disrespect his property?
Is an alleged suicide risk considered a common criminal like a drug dealer?
This appears to be once again a complete overreaction by officers who wanna play seal team 6 with US citizens. Wish these guys would just join up and be done with it.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

I would call my buddies that have been where I've been before a hotline. Hell, I'd rather talk to a 2x4 than the hotline.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

Im not sure if I read correctly but what I interpreted was that he was having nightmares from being deployed and just wanted to sleep? If that was correct, where did it come from that he was suicidal and had a gun? As for all you returning vets, the reason for anti-psycotics and anti-depressants given by the VA is so they can have the ability to take your rights away (2nd amendment) specifically. I have seen it too many times with friends returning home here. Sickening for sure. Hope he gets what he deserves and people at fault are punished.
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

Police had a duty to respond, but it sounds like they used this as a training call-out. They went MUCH farther than required and appears to justify the search as under exigent circumstances.

Recent incident in Seattle points out liability issues:
Woman calls 911 and said she was robbed at a condo.
Police respond and cordon area (across from my relative's condo. He took photos.) SWAT called in where they knock down brick walls on property lines to get armored vehicle in.
Neighbors tell police the condo owner lives alone and she is at work at hospital 2 miles away.
Police proceed to shoot gas into all windows and attic spaces. They used explosives to blow all doors and use AV to tear off garage door.
Result- No one home and the unidentified complainant is gone.
Homeowner left with bill and police had no liability.
(The live action photos are great.)
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

If Ambien didn't play a role in this, I'll be quite surprised. It is one hell of a drug! Combine a little pill that will turn the sanest of the sane into a loony, a Bethy do-gooder incapable of logic and reason, with a psycho Gestapo-wannabe-door-kicking-team and you'll likely find yourself in the middle of one hell of a party!
 
Re: swat team DESTROYS Iraq vets home over guns....

That is a good point about the Ambien.
Had a guy taking that while we were in Afghanistan. He did all kinds of crazy stuff, and never remembered in the light of day.