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Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

NRAShooter

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 8, 2008
482
1
Los Angeles, CA
Just tore apart, cleaned and lubricated my Mark 12 Model 0. Couldn't help but think there was something better than LSA or Break Free CLP to lubricate the bolt carrier group. Ideally looking for something which doesn't burn up and leave carbon deposits.

Mobil 1 looks pretty attractive. I've already tried this in the bore of my 6mm br as a conditioner after cleaning and have to admit it works pretty good.

Maybe some on the AR bolt will work better than CLP? Anyone????
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

How many rounds are you firing that you're getting the lube to actually burn up? I've never had a problem with using regular Breakfree CLP with up to 2k rounds including a good bit on full auto, but I know that systems and performance can always be different from one rifle to another.

You might want to take a look at Slip 2000 EWL. It's getting pretty good results from BCM's Filthy 14.
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

I have used mobile1 and royal purple synthetics to lube the AR and a beretta 92 both ran like champs. No cleaning on the AR for 700 rounds- no failures. 92 went 800 rounds no failures. Only thing I don't like is all the cancer warnings on the bottles of this stuff. But these days what doesn't cause cancer.


edited to add. Above test was done over the course of one day of training, about 18 hours in the summer. In a very dusty/sandy facility with high winds.

Stuff just works and its CHEAP.
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

Are you sure the carbon build up is from the lube breaking down and not just carbon build up from the gas system? We've used motor oil in a pinch (not Mobil 1 but got some synthetic turbine oil from the Helo-bubbas so it's at least comparable) but it blows out of the gun fairly quickly and makes a huge mess.
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

I use Amsoil synthetic ATF because it works great and I have some left over from tranny changes. The red dye helps you see how much you have applied as well.
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use Amsoil synthetic ATF because it works great and I have some left over from tranny changes. The red dye helps you see how much you have applied as well. </div></div>


this is why i switched from mobil 1 to royal purple.
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

CLP has always annoyed me. It may be a Cleaner Lubricant and Protectant, but since it's a combination, it doesn't do all of them as well as individual cleaners and lubes would. I've used various stuff. One of my favorites presently is Brian Enos Slide Glide (as a grease goes anyway) and then Tetra Oil. Someone was just pointing out the Royal Purple stuff to me today to. Just don't do what a customer did years ago and lube a Glock with baby oil.
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

Synthetic ATF is better than motor oil in the elements like salt water because it offers far better corrosion resistance and less burn off. You should mix the ATF or oil with about 10% penetrant like kroil or even seafoam.. especially on the bolt key or piston.. Its especially ideal for MG's...
try it on your ar bolts..no more carbon scraping.
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

I've mixed 15w40 motor oil and and gun oil and run that some. It works just fine.

Since My AR spends most of its time riding around in my cruiser, I usually lube it with liwuid wrench dry film lube. I spay a good coat on the bcg, letting it dry and turn it over to spray the other side and I spray the inside of the reciever and let it dry before I reassemble.

Why?
Because any oil is a liquid. All liquids seek the lowest point.
The dry film lube stays where it is.
I don't run hundres of rounds through my AR lubed this way, but 4 or 5 mags isn't a problem and I keep a bottle of oil in my bag to lube the BCG if required.
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

I put my AR through a torture test after recently switching to a synthetic motor oil. 5W50. I ran 2000+ rounds through it pretty hard. A combination of several mag dumps in a row, slow fire, rain, and 3 gun over the course of about a month. No extra oil or cleaning applied between shoots. I know that's not much of a test in the grand scheme of things, but it ran flawlessly.

And the bolt and carrier were still a little wet when I finally took it apart to clean.
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

working overseas, and working on a range with hundreds of students in carbine courses and MG courses. I have used several oils over the years, sometimes you have to use what you have on hand CLP, SLIP, etc. I have used motor oil on Machine guns when they were in need, especially the M2 .50 I kept a bottle of 5w/30 with me that kept that gun running nice and smooth.
AR's are a different story, I love the Miltec, and how they treat the gun, Take a look at
http://militec1.com/


 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

I have never thought about using motor oil on a fire arm. I have allways uesed Rem-Oil to clean them up and use the CLP for rapid fire and stainless guns on the moving parts. I have never had a problem. I give my AR-15 a good oiling once a month reguardless since it sits in the trunk of my cruiser and I shoot my LR 308 once a month and it, like all my others get cleaned after they get used.
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

I'm another ATF user, works fine for me.
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

I use either Slip2000EWL or motor oil depending on which is closer to the couch at the time.
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

Motor oil is fine, but any light viscosity grease/oil is good. Little bit on your finger to rub on the bolt & rails and you're done.

Rich
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

I use Mobil1. Go to a pet store and get a large syringe (plastic tip) to fill and throw in your range bag.
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

Mobile 1 Synthetic or Slip 2000 EWL used liberally work very well for me.
The Slip 2000 EWL seems to last a bit longer though.
It doesn't seem to get "blown off" as easy.

(All of this was done under the rigors of suppressor usage.)
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

I've been to S&W armorer classes for both the M&P pistol and their ARs. The instructors recommended Mobil 1 for lube.
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

I use Mobil 1 on all of my Ar's and 1911's and knock on wood, no malfunctions to date. If that lubricant can hold up in todays ultra high performance in race engines with their super high rpm, insane shearing force and extreme heat then I think its fine for my firearms. Alot cheaper than firearm specific lube as well!
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

I like to treat new metal with MilTec conditioner, then run a sythetic oil (M1 is great) and/or grease.
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

Had a light surface rust "in the white" receiver that I put into a PVC tube filled with Mobil 1 for about a year. When I took it out the rust was completely gone. Not a trace. Absolutely nothing. It came out cleaner than when I put it in. I use Mobil 1 on just about everything now. Have everything from 0W20, 0W40, 15W50.
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

Thank you all for the fantastic responses. I shoot about 700-1000 rounds usually in a session. Run the gun hard and get it smoking hot. Any oil on the surface of the barrel exterior usually burns off. I think some of the carbon internally is a combination of fouling and the LSA burning up. The CLP seems to go away after awhile. I figure if the Mobil 1 works in race engines, it should work in my AR. Will definetly give it a try.
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

Not to be a "party crasher" here but with an AR-15, motor oil viscosity is in no way appropriate for the bolt lugs of an AR-15, while it is o.k. for the rest of the lubricated areas. The bolt on an AR opens while it is under pressure, and the lugs are the subject of "severe duty" needing something like a sticky 90 wt gear oil to avoid excessive wear. Most "gun lubes" are also not appropriate for the bolt lugs of an AR-15, o.k. for slides on a 45, or for the carrier riding surfaces on an AR-15, but not the lugs. Most greases are no good either as they don't stick around and parts go dry as you shoot. For "severe duty" applications (example - like a differential of a car) you need a sticky oil and extra viscosity and protection it offers. I use Phil Wood Tenacious Oil (buy it in bicycle shops in a bottle with an applicator tip - works perfect for an AR).

On a side note the "wet lube" of an AR-15 is no go as well, just lube the moving parts making metal to metal contact as that's all you need, you don't want lube squirting all around in the gun, down into magazines, on the cartridges, etc.

Robert Whitley
www.6mmAR.com
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

From spring till fall I use mobil 1 20/50w V-Twin oil, and for the winter I switch to mobil 1 5/30w since the cold makes the heavy stuff too thick.
I use it for pistols and rifles, on everything from slide rails to bolt carriers.

Price is free since I use whats left over in the bottles from oil changes on my bike and truck. I havent bought gun lube in 10 years...
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

I will have to try the ATF never heard of that one but makes sense
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

This is contradictory to everything I've experienced. Not saying it's wrong but I've never experienced excessive wear on any bolts and Ive found running them wet always works.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rcw3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to be a "party crasher" here but with an AR-15, motor oil viscosity is in no way appropriate for the bolt lugs of an AR-15, while it is o.k. for the rest of the lubricated areas. The bolt on an AR opens while it is under pressure, and the lugs are the subject of "severe duty" needing something like a sticky 90 wt gear oil to avoid excessive wear. Most "gun lubes" are also not appropriate for the bolt lugs of an AR-15, o.k. for slides on a 45, or for the carrier riding surfaces on an AR-15, but not the lugs. Most greases are no good either as they don't stick around and parts go dry as you shoot. For "severe duty" applications (example - like a differential of a car) you need a sticky oil and extra viscosity and protection it offers. I use Phil Wood Tenacious Oil (buy it in bicycle shops in a bottle with an applicator tip - works perfect for an AR).

On a side note the "wet lube" of an AR-15 is no go as well, just lube the moving parts making metal to metal contact as that's all you need, you don't want lube squirting all around in the gun, down into magazines, on the cartridges, etc.

Robert Whitley
www.6mmAR.com
</div></div>
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottmilk9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ive been using mobile synthetic motor oil for 10 years. </div></div>
Same here, but only 3 years. Using 5W50 synthetic diesel motor oil in bolt-carrier but not in barrel. Diesel oil has more additive that will disintegrate/dissolve impurity.
No problems so far.
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: g3ninfinite</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is contradictory to everything I've experienced. Not saying it's wrong but I've never experienced excessive wear on any bolts and Ive found running them wet always works.
</div></div>

I guess I see feedback from the hundreds of "hot rod" uppers we have built up and how things come back for re-barreling or service work, and when an upper comes back after only 500-1000 rounds and the head space has opened up .003" and you find out the guys are using stuff like Break Free or motor oil on the lugs and it happens with various uppers, it's obvious there's an issue. Having customers who push things to the limit and servicing uppers can really provide data on an issue. Most people do not monitor the head space of their rifle and how it is growing with the number of rounds fired, so the responses of "hey I never noticed a problem", does not mean there isn't a potential lubrication issue. Maybe your situation is o.k. by reason of what and how you shoot and how you maintain things, but that does not mean that's necessarily true across the board.

I don't know what all the excess lube accomplishes with the "wet" lube technique. To me it just leaves it so there's a lot of lube that can go places it should not and also attract a lot of dirt and grunge to build up and cause potential problems. In an AR, there are clearly places where lube should not go (back into the buffer tube area, down into magazines, onto cartridge cases to be chambered, etc.) and with the high speed of carrier cycling, excess lube can get sprayed around in places it does not belong. I once was scoring for a shooter who used the "wet" technique with his AR and he had function issues during the match and I remember watching his rifle closely while he was shooting (because he had taken alibis and I was hoping to see what was the problem) and I remember seeing lube dripping out of the bottom of his mag well and magazines as he was shooting - not good. Another "wet lube" shooter who had function problems asked me for help, and I remember seeing oil on the shoulder pad on his shooting jacket and it was clear that oil had gotten back in to the buffer tube and was squirting back through the vent hole in the upper buttplate screw, and that oil was causing cycling problems. If "wet" works for you that's fine, but I would never advise a customer to do that as that's a recipe for me to potentially get the rifle back for function problems related to running things "wet". When you have to do warranty and service work on AR's you get a different view of things and get to see a lot of things and accumulate a lot of data on issues that are not always readily apparent.

Robert
www.6mmAR.com
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rcw3</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: g3ninfinite</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is contradictory to everything I've experienced. Not saying it's wrong but I've never experienced excessive wear on any bolts and Ive found running them wet always works.
</div></div>

I guess I see feedback from the hundreds of "hot rod" uppers we have built up and how things come back for re-barreling or service work, and when an upper comes back after only 500-1000 rounds and the head space has opened up .003" and you find out the guys are using stuff like Break Free or motor oil on the lugs and it happens with various uppers, it's obvious there's an issue. Having customers who push things to the limit and servicing uppers can really provide data on an issue. Most people do not monitor the head space of their rifle and how it is growing with the number of rounds fired, so the responses of "hey I never noticed a problem", does not mean there isn't a potential lubrication issue. Maybe your situation is o.k. by reason of what and how you shoot and how you maintain things, but that does not mean that's necessarily true across the board.

I don't know what all the excess lube accomplishes with the "wet" lube technique. To me it just leaves it so there's a lot of lube that can go places it should not and also attract a lot of dirt and grunge to build up and cause potential problems. In an AR, there are clearly places where lube should not go (back into the buffer tube area, down into magazines, onto cartridge cases to be chambered, etc.) and with the high speed of carrier cycling, excess lube can get sprayed around in places it does not belong. I once was scoring for a shooter who used the "wet" technique with his AR and he had function issues during the match and I remember watching his rifle closely while he was shooting (because he had taken alibis and I was hoping to see what was the problem) and I remember seeing lube dripping out of the bottom of his mag well and magazines as he was shooting - not good. Another "wet lube" shooter who had function problems asked me for help, and I remember seeing oil on the shoulder pad on his shooting jacket and it was clear that oil had gotten back in to the buffer tube and was squirting back through the vent hole in the upper buttplate screw, and that oil was causing cycling problems. If "wet" works for you that's fine, but I would never advise a customer to do that as that's a recipe for me to potentially get the rifle back for function problems related to running things "wet". When you have to do warranty and service work on AR's you get a different view of things and get to see a lot of things and accumulate a lot of data on issues that are not always readily apparent.

Robert
www.6mmAR.com
</div></div>

I guess are far as wet goes we had two different ideas in mind. I dont have oil in my mags, buffer tube or on my clothing. Perhaps I run mine damp not "wet"
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

Transmission fluid has a lot of additional cleansers that are not in motor oil. Synthetics also don't "burn" like non synthetics so you won't get as much smoking or carbonizing.
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

If thick synthetic is good, Lucus Oil Stabilizer looks perfect. Appears too thick for me, but then again, CLP is way too thin for me.
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rcw3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to be a "party crasher" here but with an AR-15, motor oil viscosity is in no way appropriate for the bolt lugs of an AR-15, while it is o.k. for the rest of the lubricated areas. The bolt on an AR opens while it is under pressure, and the lugs are the subject of "severe duty" needing something like a sticky 90 wt gear oil to avoid excessive wear.</div></div>
Robert,
If your uppers are opening under that much pressure you may want to take a look at the LMT Enhanced BCG or at least the Enhanced Bolt.
IMG_1421%201028%20WEVO.jpg

http://www.lmtstore.com/bolts-carriers-groups/556-enhanced-fa-bolt-carrier-group.html
The Bolt carrier is designed to unlock the bolt a bit later in the cycle as to allow the pressure to be much lower.
The Bolt lugs have stress relieve cuts to directly address the shear loads that you describe.
Bill Alexander provides an excellent explanation of all the design features in this thread.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=3379

Also, SLIP 2000 EWL is designed to be "Sticky" enough to stay on the bolt lugs.

Appologies to the OP if this is a bit of a HiJack...
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr. Phil</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Robert,
If your uppers are opening under that much pressure you may want to take a look at the LMT Enhanced BCG or at least the Enhanced Bolt.

. . .

Appologies to the OP if this is a bit of a HiJack... </div></div>

Dr Phil

No problem -

The point I was making is that all AR-15's open under pressure and it is significant and that all AR-15 bolt lugs undergo "severe duty", it's in the nature of the design of a semi auto AR-15. I have not found the LMT enhanced bolts to be an aid for inadequate or incorrect lubrication of the lugs.

If everyone else is convinced that ATF fluid or motor oil viscosity oil is fine for the lugs on their bolts, that's fine. To me that's like putting motor oil in a car differential, things may appear to be fine, but ultimately you will get more wear than if you used an appropriate heavy gear oil.

Robert
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

Motor oil is specifically designed to lubricate pistons and rings. I would think there's nothing better for an AR piston. I use M1 in both my ARs...just the gas system though.
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

Mobil-1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40.

Works in the Duramax Truck, Kubota Tractor, and a bunch of AR-15's and an SR-25. CLP is a better rust preventive if you are putting a gun away long term.
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rcw3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The point I was making is that all AR-15's open under pressure and it is significant and that all AR-15 bolt lugs undergo "severe duty", it's in the nature of the design of a semi auto AR-15. I have not found the LMT enhanced bolts to be an aid for inadequate or incorrect lubrication of the lugs.</div></div>
My point was more toward your "Hot Rod" uppers operating at higher pressures and affecting head space.
It made me think of the LMT E-BCG as a good fit.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Alexander</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let us perhaps be a little more precise with regard to the details of the LMT enhanced bolt and carrier system. As shown the details are very often misinterpreted.

In the first instance one must understand why the system exists, more particulaly in the context that the design is brilliant in its execution, but as reported frequently on the errornet is not always reliable. The design basis for the assembly is specifically to enhance the durability of the M4 configuration as currently issued. This gun is to some extent unbalanced. Port pressures running military grade ammunition are well in excess of the design levels which leads to very high carrier acceleration rates (+22 f/s/s). this combined with chamber pressure drop often creates the undesirable condition that the bolt commences to unlock while still subject to a degree of head thrust from the cartridge case. The result is that the lugs are subject to a biaxial loading of both shear and bending.

The LMT system being both the carrier and the bolt seeks to operate directly in this gun and elleviate symptoms. The carrier is set up with a longer delay during the initial portion of its movement. To facilitate this longer cam path and movement of the bolt forwards in the carrier, the front edge of the carrier is extended such that it still continues to retain the extractor pivot pin. Additional exhaust vents act to drop the piston pressure faster and to relieve any blowby at the tail of the bolt.

The bolt itself is of particular interest. The function of the dual spring extractor is frequently misinterpreted as an attempt to add spring force to the extractor claw. Rather it reduces the fatigue that the extractor spring(s) undergo by allowing the use of longer springs with lower K values; the % relative compression during the movement of the extractor is reduced. Remember that additional extractor force is not required now that the carrier is slowing the extraction cycle. The mitigation of stress in the bolt is accomplished in several ways. Material is the least visible change but is important to the design. The traditional Carpenter 158 is abandoned, being replaced by a significantly tougher grade from a different manufacturer. The lugs themselves are generously radiused between lugs and at the rear the diameter is actually reduced to allow a larger transition radius to be machined. The incorrectly identified sand cuts on the lugs are stress relief cuts. These allow any individual lug to elastically deform and give a smoother load over the contact patch. While this type of feature is very difficult to calculate and even more difficult to implement it helps to place the lug in a true shear load rather than amplify the bending moment. As noted the lug opposite the extractor is relieved. This feature prevents the unequal transfer of load to the two opposite lugs but I would argue that the stress relief groove already in place largely accomplishes this purpose. This is a academic quibble so I will bow to LMT in this respect. There is one additional feature that can be found in the bolt, but I am not at liberty to disclose the detail.

When considering wether to use the LMT parts one must consider the weapon. Correctly ported guns will derive little or no benefit from a carrier that is specifically set up to absorb excessive port pressures and some degree of residual case pressure. If not sufficiently gassed the reliability will suffer. This is not a fault of the carrier rather a mistake made in the application so be careful with simple substitutions. The bolt itself is exemplary. If not constrained by a $ value the bolt is a worthy addition to any rifle and will do nothing but enhance the durability of this part of the system.

Bill Alexander</div></div>
 
Re: Synthetic Motor Oil to lube their AR 15?

A Beretta O/U shotty purchased new 10 years ago had a small bottle of Beretta oil with the package. On the back of the bottle is a very small Valvoline logo. The words synthetic and motor oil are nowhere on the bottle.
I use Mobile 1 in the needle oiler, Rem spray in hard to get areas.