PRS Talk Tac class (308) barrel length

[XTR]

For the guys running 308s...

If I didn't miss any 2020 rules changes they still limit 308s to 178s and 2800FPS. So, what bullets and barrel lengths are guys playing the TAC game running?
I know from experience that, 2800 is more than doable from a 30" tube with a 178, six or seven yrs ago there were F-TR shooters doing it with 185s before we went to 200s, and a 155s really not even close to full throttle at 2800 from a long tube.


Is there a happy spot in a shorter barrel with 155s or longer tubes and 178s?

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

24" barrel I can get to 2800 with 178s. It wont be low pressure though and no guarantee you find a node there.

Most guys I competed with in tac were somewhere in the 2730-2800 range with typically 175s.

If you put the bullets in a ballistic solver you often dont lose anything besides drop within that FPS range. Consistency in your load will matter more than speed than the potential .1 mil of wind gain.

 

[XTR]

I get the whole finding where it shoots thing. I shoot a fair bit of F-TR with pretty good success. When we ran the 185s the node most ran was in the 2750 to 2775 range, and I don't think I want to run 2800 from a 24" tube. From a 24 I'd think that a reasonable load is probably in the low 2700 node around 2725. I was curious where folks were runnning.

I'm not going to be shooting less F-TR, at least until after the World Championships in '21, but I've had a rifle for a while and been wanting to play the precision game a little. My wind reading and elevation for the 308 is pretty practiced so it kind of seems like a fit.

 

[Estes640]

26” tube, running 168 eldm at 2780ish

 

[mojavejim]

26" also,a 30'" won't be much fun on some stages.

 

[Sierra770]

26” 178 ELD-M 2760
28” 175 Berger OTM 2780
28” 168 ELD-M 2800 (smooth shooter)
23” 168 ELD-M 2730

All suppressed.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

Gunna throw in the new one to even these numbers out.

18.5" with 178 HPBT, 175 RDFs and 200 class bullets (when not shooting tac class)

All suppressed as well.

 

[XTR]

My precision rifle as a 22" 308 tube (and a longer 6SLR one) that I can run with my SiCo Hybrid but I've got a barrel that I took off of one of my F_TR rifles this yr that isn't quite holding X ring vertical at 1000 any more, but it's got a 5" breach section so I can shorten it up to pretty much anything 28" and re-chamber.

 

[Rob01]

Have shot 20" to 26" and 168 and 178s in matches over the years. Now I run a 24" barrel and running factory 168 ELD-Ms. I plan to load them when I run out of the factory loading. Loading I can get 178s at 2750 pretty easy in this barrel so the 168s should be close to 2800.

 

[littlepod]

Sorry not to hijack the thread, but if I'm planning on only doing factory loads - Prime 175gr .308, what would you guys recommend as the ideal length? This is for PRS/Training. I'll also eventually run a 6cm 26" probably later this year.

 

[Rob01]

24-26” would be fine. It would give you the feel of the 6cm for weight and length for training.

 

[littlepod]

24-26” would be fine. It would give you the feel of the 6cm for weight and length for training.

Thanks Rob. Just placed an order through Straight Jacket for a 24" 308 1/10 twist Competition Contour.

I was going to go for a 6cm, but then ... maybe I should just go straight to 6GT, order 6GT through Prime... save myself some barrel life.

 

[Feesh]

Last year (first year in Regional matches) I had a 20” barrel. I replaced with a 26” and am pushing 175 SMKs at 2750. Haven’t shot a match with the new barrel but look forward to it.

 

[EN2722]

I’ll say I’ve been running a 20” barrel with a Area419 Hellfire and it’s been really handy to throw around on those stages that are tight. After swapping to a 26” MTU contour I gained almost 3.5 lbs of rifle and due to the extra length it’s been a challenge. I’ve only been able to dry fire stages in the garage with the new barrel. But I noticed a significant difference with the extra length.

The 20” barrel I was pushing 178 gr BTHP’s at 2600 FPS and now I’m hoping the 26” will take me to 2750-2775.

 

[littlepod]

I plan on running the 24" with an Ultra 9, and the 26" 6cm with an Ultra 7, so it'll be interesting with 33" of length... Seems really hard to maneuver but a lot of people do it.

 

[EN2722]

I plan on running the 24" with an Ultra 9, and the 26" 6cm with an Ultra 7, so it'll be interesting with 33" of length... Seems really hard to maneuver but a lot of people do it.

You’re a better man than I. That suppressor would be slapping everything! Lol

 

[Rob01]

I’ll say I’ve been running a 20” barrel with a Area419 Hellfire and it’s been really handy to throw around on those stages that are tight. After swapping to a 26” MTU contour I gained almost 3.5 lbs of rifle and due to the extra length it’s been a challenge. I’ve only been able to dry fire stages in the garage with the new barrel. But I noticed a significant difference with the extra length.

The 20” barrel I was pushing 178 gr BTHP’s at 2600 FPS and now I’m hoping the 26” will take me to 2750-2775.

You just need to practice more with it. I wouldn't have recommended an MTU for that set up but with practice you can run it well. I ran a 28" MTU for 4 years with my 6.5 Creedmoor and had no issues getting it around at matches. I was using 26" M24/40s prior to that on my .243. I have used 20", 22" and 24" .308s in matches. No issues with any getting around. Just need to get used to it. Ran a 300WM with a 26" barrel and a 9" can on it at a few matches. Did fine.

Keep practicing and getting used to the weight and length.

 

[EN2722]

You just need to practice more with it. I wouldn't have recommended an MTU for that set up but with practice you can run it well. I ran a 28" MTU for 4 years with my 6.5 Creedmoor and had no issues getting it around at matches. I was using 26" M24/40s prior to that on my .243. I have used 20", 22" and 24" .308s in matches. No issues with any getting around. Just need to get used to it. Ran a 300WM with a 26" barrel and a 9" can on it at a few matches. Did fine.

Keep practicing and getting used to the weight and length.

Why not the 26” MTU contour?

 

[Rob01]

Just the extra weight. With a good brake it's not really needed to cut recoil and some, as you are seeing, can have issues with the weight. As i said though practice with it and learn how to get it around and work with the length and weight and you should be fine.

I run a 24" med palma on my Tac .308 now. I have a 26" M24/40 contour I plan on putting in to use when we can leave the house too.

 

[db2000]

Here's a couple loads I like w/ Sierra Match King 175 gr HPBT. I suspect the suppressor will add 25-50 fps but haven't tested that theory.

Savage Model 10 Ashbury Precision Ordinance .308 24" barrel, 1-10" twist, SilencerCo ASR flash hider
Magneto v3, Hornady digital scale and comparator, Lyman manual caliper


Federal Factory Gold Medal SMK 175
55F 80% 29.7mmHg
Fed 210M
Ogive 2.261
COL 2.010
COAL 2.805
2643, 2670, 2658, 2647, 2662, 2651, 2661, 2656, 2643, 2656 SD 8.9
0.6”

Sierra MK 175 HPBT
55F 83% 29.70mmHg
LC brass x 2 firings
Rx 15 44.4 gr
Fed 210M
COL 2.030
COAL 2.780
2658, 2712, 2731, 2706, 2697, 2716, 2716, 2695, 2703, 2696 SD 19.3
1”

Sierra MK 175 HPBT
40F 45% 30.17mmHg
Fed brass x 6 firings
H4895 42.2 gr
Fed 210M
COL 2.020
COAL 2.780
2729, 2695, 2724, 2723, 2718
2700, 2720, 2707, 2718, 2685 SD 14.4
0.6”

 

[XTR]

I want to try running the Berger 168H. The 175SMK has been around forever and has a design like a brick compared to more modern designs. I'm sure Rob has run most of the options. All in all I really think either the 168H or the 168ELD M may be the best balance of BC and recoil with the 178gr/2800FPS weight/speed limits. The 175TMK looks like it gives the same ballistics as the 168s but with a bit more weight.

I've got a few Berger certificates buried on my desk somewhere, and considering that I have nearly 5000 200.20x's here and no matches going on I don't think I need to use them for F-TR bullets.

 

[EN2722]

Just the extra weight. With a good brake it's not really needed to cut recoil and some, as you are seeing, can have issues with the weight. As i said though practice with it and learn how to get it around and work with the length and weight and you should be fine.

I run a 24" med palma on my Tac .308 now. I have a 26" M24/40 contour I plan on putting in to use when we can leave the house too.

Yeah the extra weight can get cumbersome as my rifle weighs in at just over 20 lbs.

It’ll all buff

 

[XTR]

Jebus, my F-TR rig with bipod and a 30" modified heavy vmt (.96 at the muzzle) for a barrel only weighs in at 18#

 

[Rob01]

I want to try running the Berger 168H. The 175SMK has been around forever and has a design like a brick compared to more modern designs. I'm sure Rob has run most of the options. All in all I really think either the 168H or the 168ELD M may be the best balance of BC and recoil with the 178gr/2800FPS weight/speed limits. The 175TMK looks like it gives the same ballistics as the 168s but with a bit more weight.

I've got a few Berger certificates buried on my desk somewhere, and considering that I have nearly 5000 200.20x's here and no matches going on I don't think I need to use them for F-TR bullets.

Yeah the 168 ELDs have been great. I shot the factory ammo last year in my .308 and it did very well in Tac. I got a bunch of 168 ELDs to load up if we ever get to shoot again. Have a bunch of 178 BTHPs too. They will be my go tos. The 175 SMK has been around a long time and it works but with so many newer bullets with better BCs come out it's almost like handicapping yourself shooting them. With a 24-26" barrel you should be able to get the 168s pretty near 2800fps.

 

[D_TROS]

My tac rifle has a 28" barrel. Wasnt sure like many here if I could get the speeds as my first GAP rifle I owned had a 22" barrel and I shot 175's at 2600.

Fastforward to 2018 and I tried a bunch of options.

Nosler 175's were one of my favorite going 2775
Prime ammo shot best but was super slow at 2650
HSM 155's shot 2900 so I was over the speed limit
HSM 178's shot 2780 and were one hole. had couple top 20's with this

I spent alot of time crunching numbers. FOr both ballistics and trying to minimalize recoil (really wanted to shoot 155's but they didnt shine tilla bout 2900+)

My match load ended up being
168 Berger Hybrids at almost no pressure. VV N140 pushing em 2790 with SD of 6. I won the 2018 Tac Class at the finale missing 3 shots on day 2 (timed out for 2 of those misses on 1 stage which had 10 shots in 10 positions in 90 sec). Those bergers are flat out great bullets.

My rifle weighed 18 lbs with everything. Heavy palma krieger.

If I had to do it again Id do 26" as I can easily get 2800 with the 168;s there.

GL!
DT

 

[EN2722]

My tac rifle has a 28" barrel. Wasnt sure like many here if I could get the speeds as my first GAP rifle I owned had a 22" barrel and I shot 175's at 2600.

Fastforward to 2018 and I tried a bunch of options.

Nosler 175's were one of my favorite going 2775
Prime ammo shot best but was super slow at 2650
HSM 155's shot 2900 so I was over the speed limit
HSM 178's shot 2780 and were one hole. had couple top 20's with this

I spent alot of time crunching numbers. FOr both ballistics and trying to minimalize recoil (really wanted to shoot 155's but they didnt shine tilla bout 2900+)

My match load ended up being
168 Berger Hybrids at almost no pressure. VV N140 pushing em 2790 with SD of 6. I won the 2018 Tac Class at the finale missing 3 shots on day 2 (timed out for 2 of those misses on 1 stage which had 10 shots in 10 positions in 90 sec). Those bergers are flat out great bullets.

My rifle weighed 18 lbs with everything. Heavy palma krieger.

If I had to do it again Id do 26" as I can easily get 2800 with the 168;s there.

GL!
DT

I’m very interested in knowing if you decided on the 168’s purely from a velocity stand point vice the 175/178’s?

I’ve gone back and forth between 168 and 175/178’s for the past year.

 

[littlepod]

In terms of barrel contour, it looks like PRS popularity is MTU and M24 are the top. Is there a performance difference? My current barrel that I run with is 6lbs, and requires me to get about 4lbs of weights to get it to balance right. So I think going up to a MTU, Competition contour making the barrel 8lbs will allow me to drop some weights and have it still balanced.

Is it better to add weight to the barrel via contour vs lighter barrel + spend money on external weights for the chassis?

 

[EN2722]

In terms of barrel contour, it looks like PRS popularity is MTU and M24 are the top. Is there a performance difference? My current barrel that I run with is 6lbs, and requires me to get about 4lbs of weights to get it to balance right. So I think going up to a MTU, Competition contour making the barrel 8lbs will allow me to drop some weights and have it still balanced.

Is it better to add weight to the barrel via contour vs lighter barrel + spend money on external weights for the chassis?

Great question! I did both ??‍

 

[Rob01]

It's better to practice and get your skill level up. Weights and barrel contours don't make hits. I run a med palma on my tac rig in a Manners stock with no weights. It weighs about 14 pounds and hits where I aim it. Don't get hung up on gear. What you got will work fine if you can run it.

 

[littlepod]

It's better to practice and get your skill level up. Weights and barrel contours don't make hits. I run a med palma on my tac rig in a Manners stock with no weights. It weighs about 14 pounds and hits where I aim it. Don't get hung up on gear. What you got will work fine if you can run it.

Agree... practice practice practice. But $700 for a barrel want to make sure I order the right thing, but yeh it would be splitting hairs. I worry less about the weight but the balance of the rifle. I know with my MDT ACC, and the Vudoo Kukri, it was way too back heavy. So I need a heavier barrel than 5.5 lbs to balance that chassis.

I ended up going with 1 MTU barrel in 308 and then the Proof Competition Prefit in 6cm. Proof didn't offer any other choices so that made things simple

 

[Rob01]

Thought you had already ordered and had the barrel. Didn't know you were ordering but seems like you ordered already so you should be fine with the MTU if you needed the weight.

 

[littlepod]

Thought you had already ordered and had the barrel. Didn't know you were ordering but seems like you ordered already so you should be fine with the MTU if you needed the weight.

The only rifle I have is the Vudoo with the 18" Kukri barrel that I believe weighs 5.5 lbs, so that was my comparison. I know a 24-26" will have the weight dispersed differently, but right now my Vudoo sits in the ACC with 4lbs of weights to balance in front of the mag well.

I couldn't lighten up the ACC buttstock anymore to get it to balance... sits at 16.5 lbs right now.

 

[StrayDog]

Rob and others, where are you finding 178 bthps?
Are they still being made?

 

[EN2722]

Rob and others, where are you finding 178 bthps?
Are they still being made?

I found them on midsouth shooting supply in the 250 count bags. I look on there twice a week to check if they go back into stock, when they do I buy one because I'm not that greedy of a bastard.

 

[Rob01]

I have a bunch I have bought over the years as bullets don't go bad. LOL But like Matt said just search around and you can find them. I really like the bullet in the .308. Good BC and very accurate in my rifles.