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Taliban Negotiations...

pmclaine

Gunny Sergeant
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Minuteman
  • Nov 6, 2011
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    I posit the only possible thing we could possibly be negotiating with them is the length of time required to allow the present corrupt government to exist so that we are not totally embarrassed by its fall.

    I posted this elsewhere....

    Afghanistan is what happens when you undertake a just war but have no idea of Strategy or think Tactics and Strategy are interchangeable words.

    The problem is colleges would never teach a Clausewitz/Sun Tzu/Liddell Hart/Mahan course these days.

    Our Pols and a good number of the military have no understanding of what "Diplomacy by other means" means and why it needs to be in response to existential threats, narrow and defined.

    Anything else is a never ending hemorrhage of our best youth and a big kiss to the Military Industrial Complex.

    Our concerns in Afghanistan were secured when Osama took shots to the face, a hasty departure should have followed.

    A message should have been left behind on a full size 600 yard target "Any further S%&t from you will make this ground zero for cruise missles, MOAB and perhaps weapons measured in kilotons"

    The only purpose of our negotiations has to be centered around "How long can the present corrupt puppet government be allowed to run before the Taliban destroys it"

    and destroy it the Taliban will.

    We just want it done some period of time after our departure so its not too embarrassing.

    The strategy should never considered forming a govt as part of our plan.

    There is no embarrassment if your goals do not include the impossible.

    A just war "tainted" and youth lost by over reaching meddlers.



    In response I was asked "What about Afghanistans mineral deposits?"

    My thoughts......


    Ive heard that angle.

    If thats the case our current trade war has important strategic implications and any opposition would be akin to treason.

    Our exploitation of resources there would be so much more cost prohibitive than just dealing with the EPA and going for our own rare earths.

    China may be able to "One belt, One Road" their way into Afghanistan but their treatment of the Uighurs indicates the people of the region will eventually not have good relations with their new masters. Another Empire to notch in Afghanistan's belt?

    India just took autonomy away from its border areas. Perhaps they are prepping the route to move into Afghanistan but......

    people of this mentality......

    http://www.planetcustodian.com/2015/...-in-china.html

    Leads me to believe they have other issues to concern themselves with.

    If they want Afghanistan let them have it.



    My Conclusion to you.....

    Plaster that shithole with 64" X 72" MR targets and depart most expeditiously and have no negotiations with anyone.
     
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    John Bolton is out. That's at least a step in the right direction.


    Yes heard that earlier.

    He had his moments while UN Ambassador but I think he presently wants to be President without having had to run.

    Mattis as well had his moments but I dont miss him and I wont miss Bolton.

    Hoping now someone gets in NSA that will end the spying on citizens and perhaps really tell us when and who authorized spying on political candidates or what meta data was on Hillarys illegal server.
     
    Here is an idea BRING BACK MIKE ROGERS!


    A better idea.

    Go back in time and learn from everybody since Alexander, the British, and the Russians.

    Its a quagmire with no win in site. We would have to do a total suppression occupation for 50-75 years or so and thats no guarantee.
     
    A better idea.

    Go back in time and learn from everybody since Alexander, the British, and the Russians.

    Its a quagmire with no win in site. We would have to do a total suppression occupation for 50-75 years or so and thats no guarantee.

    That is what has to happen any time you try an conquer a country. We still have bases in Germany and Japan for a reason.

    You must occupy for a minimum of 4 generations. If you are not willing to do that then war should be avoided.
     
    If we're going to judge our success by a stable afgan government or lack of violence, will there ever be victory? That's the reason I hear from media as to why we can't leave. The afgan gov is corrupt. The afgan gov isn't stable. There's still a lot of violence. I've never been there, but it's my assumption that the gov will remain corrupt, at least as long as there is a gov there and mass violence will continue there until the end of time. I say set up a new negotiation meeting, bomb them in route, bomb the villages where they call home (whether in Pak or afgan), cut some throats of some afgan gov shitheads that I assume we have knowledge of and tell the fucked up country bye-bye. JMHO.
     
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    That is what has to happen any time you try an conquer a country. We still have bases in Germany and Japan for a reason.

    You must occupy for a minimum of 4 generations. If you are not willing to do that then war should be avoided.
    The other option (the one with more logical output and end result) is a complete re-format of the thinking process. WWII ended quite abruptly because of such. We did not initiate the attack upon the perpetrators (I'll use THAT word for now), they brought it to us. Therefore, they are the ones who need to regret their actions, re-think their values, and re-direct their endeavors. If we as a society don't have that, then we've nothing. We've even less than when we started.

    It's time this bullshit ENDED right, ENDED completely, and ENDED finitely.
     
    Just remember that the reason we went to go be the next empire to invade war world was because we were upset a small group of our former bestest friends, some Saudi nationals had setup camp there.... and then quietly moved over to setup house with our frenimies in Pakistan.

    When you take a step back from the propaganda and jingoism and look at history, the whole unplan from start to finish was doomed.

    It's just a matter of trying to pull out without it looking like a repeat of the last helicopter leaving the embassy in Vietnam.
    Back in war world, sooner or later, anyone who collaborated with the foreigners most likely will eventually be in fear for their lives it's just a matter of when. We could at least try to do the decent thing and let our allies move over here with their families, but somehow I think we'll trade their lives for some convenient promises.
     
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    A better idea.

    Go back in time and learn from everybody since Alexander, the British, and the Russians.

    Its a quagmire with no win in site. We would have to do a total suppression occupation for 50-75 years or so and thats no guarantee.


    The only way that area of the globe could ever be fixed is if we encourage good people to move there and we re-program their society by intermingling them with the good prospects sent over. There are some good people over there believe it or not but there is so much other crap going on that no war is ever going to change anything there, it will only make matters worse. Re-programming their society by encouraging good people from here to move there is literally the only way you will have fruitful change. And even then it will take generations to be successful and even that has a certain percentage of a possible failure rate.
     
    I'm an old guy and sometimes am amused how things come into fashion, go out, and come back as new ideas because everyone forgot.

    This is nixon and kissinger all over again. "Peace with honor".

    We should have just turned it all into a glass parking lot and been done with it. If anybody had a problem with that, do the same to them. I don't think more than one would have complained. Let everyone understand, you do not F with us. We would love to be your friend, but you have to make it worth our while.

    Unfortunately, this is a country of political pansies.
     
    I'm an old guy and sometimes am amused how things come into fashion, go out, and come back as new ideas because everyone forgot.

    This is nixon and kissinger all over again. "Peace with honor".

    We should have just turned it all into a glass parking lot and been done with it. If anybody had a problem with that, do the same to them. I don't think more than one would have complained. Let everyone understand, you do not F with us. We would love to be your friend, but you have to make it worth our while.

    Unfortunately, this is a country of political pansies.

    i might not disagree at this point, but am curious to the justification you would have to kill everyone in that country in retaliation for something that a handful of terrorists from other countries did on 9/11.
    the sunni wahhabi extremists like bin laden aren't afghans.
     
    It's real simple, there are no innocents. You didn't take care of it when you could, then we will now . Again the message loud and clear, do not F with us. Don't forget the 3K that were innocents on our soil.
     
    It's real simple, there are no innocents. You didn't take care of it when you could, then we will now . Again the message loud and clear, do not F with us. Don't forget the 3K that were innocents on our soil.

    fair enough, but then it is the Kingdom that filled the Clinton coffers that should be destroyed, not a bunch of ignorant goat herders.
     
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    It's real simple, there are no innocents. You didn't take care of it when you could, then we will now . Again the message loud and clear, do not F with us. Don't forget the 3K that were innocents on our soil.

    Nice world view, there are no innocents... Basically you support kill or be killed policy and when doing the killing rationalize it by "they are all guilty one way or another"...

    Good thing you're old i think soon earth will be a better place with -1 cretin...
     
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    Yeah, I don’t condone taking out innocent people. Doing that makes you no better than the terrorist or anyone else that killed our people.
     
    Nice world view, there are no innocents... Basically you support kill or be killed policy and when doing the killing rationalize it by "they are all guilty one way or another"...

    Good thing you're old i think soon earth will be a better place with -1 cretin...
    That's how we won WW2. We targeted EVERYONE.

    You're too stupid to realize how wrong you are.
     
    Nice world view, there are no innocents... Basically you support kill or be killed policy and when doing the killing rationalize it by "they are all guilty one way or another"...

    Good thing you're old i think soon earth will be a better place with -1 cretin...

    Coming from a antisemetic eurotrash douchebag such as yourself...that really carries a lot of weight.
     
    That's how we won WW2. We targeted EVERYONE.

    You're too stupid to realize how wrong you are.

    No you didn't.

    Perhaps but experience from history says at least in this instance i'm far from being wrong.

    that really carries a lot of weight.

    With your types only weight that is being carried is by your belt and your belt buckle... Go hump your nearest relative and try not to set you head on fire trying to understand things outside your trailer-park...
     
    No you didn't.

    Perhaps but experience from history says at least in this instance i'm far from being wrong.



    With your types only weight that is being carried is by your belt and your belt buckle... Go hump your nearest relative and try not to set you head on fire trying to understand things outside your trailer-park...


    Targeting civilians was not official policy but it was realized that the moral of the enemy had to be crushed.

    Strategists like LeMay realized that the militaristic govts existed due to the people tolerating them if not out right supporting them.

    It was realized that the only way to win was to crush the will of the people to support their govts.

    The air war of attrition is probably most attributable to Britain.

    Churchill/Bomber Harris more so than Goering would be responsible for introducing the targeting of civilians. Done so somewhat through misunderstanding more so through desperation and hate.

    Our use of it against Japan was the only answer to a suicidal enemy.

    Eisenhowers target was always the German military. He avoided geographic prizes in order to pursue troops. The 8th Air Force kept the pressure on the means to supply that military force.
     
    Things there will NEVER change...I don't care how many generations we occupy.

    I am sick and tired of fighting wars that have no relevance. The guise of "National Security Interests" is BS.
    1. Move the UN out of the US
    2. Cut off ALL aid to that region of the planet. I don't care who appears to be friend or foe. Cut it all.
    3. Eliminate the ability of anyone from that area of the world to come to the US. We no longer want your rubbish. If the ones here start clamoring, deport them immediately. If they have become US Citizens, remind them of their allegiance before you revoke their citizenship and deport them.
    4. Let them solve their own issues in whatever way they choose. Let the Blue helmeted UN forces go there if they don't like the horror that they will see on TV. It will soon be apparent how savage these people are. Much easier to kill savages than what you perceive to be people with a different religious view.
    5. Any aggression against our country will be dealt with EXTREME PREJUDICE. I could care less if they nuke the whole region. I don't care if there is collateral damage. It will only occur once. They will then leave us alone.
    6. Fuck the EU...when they start bitching
    Fuck peaceful coexistence....Time to take back our country...

    BUY MORE AMMO and parts
     
    you can't defeat religious extremists, you can only martyr them, or leave them alone to kill each other.


    This.

    Or even better... Find out which tribe or group that they are enemies with, and arm them with lots of ordnance. As well as give them an incentive to go and fuck the other group's shit up.

    A couple of truckloads of YEET CANNON carbines would be worth their value in gold in many parts of the world. And the company gets enough $$$ from the government purchases to build better and more diverse stuff. Who would buy a Hi-Point AR-15/10 if one ever appears on the market? I would.
     
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    This.

    Or even better... Find out which tribe or group that they are enemies with, and arm them with lots of ordnance. As well as give them an incentive to go and fuck the other group's shit up.

    A couple of truckloads of YEET CANNON carbines would be worth their value in gold in many parts of the world. And the company gets enough $$$ from the government purchases to build better and more diverse stuff. Who would buy a Hi-Point AR-15/10 if one ever appears on the market? I would.


    We are in this bullshit because we arm "the enemy of my enemy" without regard that the enemy of the enemy is just as distasteful an organization just perhaps in a different way.

    We are the Catholic Church of Freedom now. An organization based on fundamental beliefs that has violated every one of those beliefs.

    We have principles as a country we advertise that we believe in and promote yet we have worked against our own ideals at every opportunity to do so for some "advantage" I have yet to grasp.
     
    We are in this bullshit because we arm "the enemy of my enemy" without regard that the enemy of the enemy is just as distasteful an organization just perhaps in a different way.

    We are the Catholic Church of Freedom now. An organization based on fundamental beliefs that has violated every one of those beliefs.

    We have principles as a country we advertise that we believe in and promote yet we have worked against our own ideals at every opportunity to do so for some "advantage" I have yet to grasp.

    i must agree here, after witnessing our arming of Iran to kill Iraqis, and then arming Iraq to kill Iranians after we lost control of Iran.
    this and other similar policies is the root of the hatred for america in that region
     
    Dang today is a sobering day. On so many levels 9/11 does this to me, but seeing footage of those people jumping out of the towers infuriates me more and more each time. Then seeing people in the Middle East celebrating with our Flag burning.
     
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    This.

    Or even better... Find out which tribe or group that they are enemies with, and arm them with lots of ordnance. As well as give them an incentive to go and fuck the other group's shit up.

    A couple of truckloads of YEET CANNON carbines would be worth their value in gold in many parts of the world. And the company gets enough $$$ from the government purchases to build better and more diverse stuff. Who would buy a Hi-Point AR-15/10 if one ever appears on the market? I would.

    We tried this approach in the mid 80s. Did not ultimately work out so well. If you think that trying it one more time, but with Hi-Point stuff instead of leftover Enfields and whatever else the CIA could scrounge up, then I believe we'll just get one more data point that confirms the hypothesis that "those who forget history are doomed to repeat it".

    We've fucked around in that particular God-forsaken country for the majority of my adult life without much success. It would seem like we're out of fresh ideas.
     
    We tried this approach in the mid 80s. Did not ultimately work out so well. If you think that trying it one more time, but with Hi-Point stuff instead of leftover Enfields and whatever else the CIA could scrounge up, then I believe we'll just get one more data point that confirms the hypothesis that "those who forget history are doomed to repeat it".

    We've fucked around in that particular God-forsaken country for the majority of my adult life without much success. It would seem like we're out of fresh ideas.


    Agree. These measures on a short term will work in keeping immediate enemies off of our backs, but in the long run an entire region will end up seeing us as the arch-enemy. These same tactics kept the Byzantine Empire safe from the multitudes of foes all around it for just under a millennia...
     
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    Well if anyone wants to do a proper supervillain worthy plan to create world peace, try figuring out how to get an oil eating bacteria into all the oil fields in the entire middle east, especially our "allies" then if you succeed in about 20 years nobody will care what some savages are doing killing each other in the desert, it will even take care of most of the problems with Israel, because once there is no oil around the other parts, nobody is going to care or stop Israel from doing "what needs to be done" to make sure they have plenty of well defended land for their country.
     
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    Things there will NEVER change...I don't care how many generations we occupy.

    I am sick and tired of fighting wars that have no relevance. The guise of "National Security Interests" is BS.
    1. Move the UN out of the US
    2. Cut off ALL aid to that region of the planet. I don't care who appears to be friend or foe. Cut it all.
    3. Eliminate the ability of anyone from that area of the world to come to the US. We no longer want your rubbish. If the ones here start clamoring, deport them immediately. If they have become US Citizens, remind them of their allegiance before you revoke their citizenship and deport them.
    4. Let them solve their own issues in whatever way they choose. Let the Blue helmeted UN forces go there if they don't like the horror that they will see on TV. It will soon be apparent how savage these people are. Much easier to kill savages than what you perceive to be people with a different religious view.
    5. Any aggression against our country will be dealt with EXTREME PREJUDICE. I could care less if they nuke the whole region. I don't care if there is collateral damage. It will only occur once. They will then leave us alone.
    6. Fuck the EU...when they start bitching
    Fuck peaceful coexistence....Time to take back our country...

    BUY MORE AMMO and parts

    Amen!