Talk me out of a Kestrel and Sig BDX Rangefinder.

[pugnado]

This is what I have now to set up my shots:

1. For temperature and humidity, I have a Honeywell sensor that came with a humidifier. The accuracy is questionable, but it's better than putting %50 in.
2. For wind speed and temperature, I have a small handheld wind unit that I use for sailing. The direction is measured with a ribbon I tied to it and I have a small cheap boy scout compass to input relative or absolute shooting and wind direction.
3. For air pressure, altitude, location on the earth etc..., I have an eTrex GPS unit I bought for mountaineering. It has a hall effect compass too, but it's slow to read. My phone can do some of these things too with an app called 'Barometer'
4. For range finding, I have a MilDot Master, obviously prone to error due to guessing about object sizes. Most places I shoot have known target distances because I measured them with a tape or roller measurement wheel. (It's not that good for hunting or anything with random distances and no reference objects nearby.) New places to shoot its a lot of guesswork or legwork.

This stuff works but it's tedious to use and takes some time to set up a shot. I have to turn everything on, push a whole bunch of buttons on multiple devices to get what I want, input them into a program on my phone (or consult a pre-printed ballistics table), guesstimate the range and dial the scope (if not using holdovers etc...)

What I'd like to have:

A range finder that'll work out to about 1400 yards on paper/steel targets, 800 or so for deer and non-reflective targets.
A temperature, pressure, humidity, wind speed, wind direction (relative to target or absolute) sensor package all in one.
Some kind of ballistics program that can read all of the above and type it all in for me and present a firing solution on my no-internet phone or a display somewhere.
The fewer the batteries, wires, stuff to break/lose etc... the better.

So I have done some research and came across an interesting video that shows one of the new Sig BDX range finders that can send the ranging data nad offload its ballistic calculations to a Kestral, then read the dope in the rangefinder display:
That's pretty cool. I could set the Kestral up on a windvane mount after giving it a general shooting direction.
(I don't care about the BDX scope, I have a better one with Horus tree.)

This would be about a $1400 setup, roughly $700 for each thing. Ouch. Do I really need it, or can I meet my needs with less?
I think both of the devices have the AB Elite Ballistic Engine, so maybe paying twice for the same thing. The Kestrel can't measure distance and the Sig RangeFinder can't measure wind/wind direction (or can it?) so it seems like I'd need them both?

Edit: The BDX does not have the AB Elite Ballistics Engine, some kind of lite version that is limited to 800 yards.
The Kilo 2400ABS has the Elite Engine, and the same sensors as the Kestrel but falls short on wind measuring because its propeller thing needs a cellphone to mount into. Plus I wonder if your hands temperature on the rangefinder would affect the readings.

 

[Sticks]

There are a couple new items in the works due out 2019. One is a unit that looks like a phone, but has the environmental (wind, pressure, humidity) and ballistic calc.

The other is Kestral coming out with a HUD version.

I'd say if what you have is working, then stick with it and keep saving money for a few more months.

Check out the Ballistic Calculator section.

 

[4darkseid]

I know the guys that have had good success/experience with Sig have absolutely loved them. I'm in the opposite camp right now, and after my experience with my brand new 2200 rangefinder I wouldn't trust this fancy new BDX setup one bit. I sure got a lemon. I will give them the chance to make it right, but have been less then impressed with their customer service up to this point.

After I started asking around to others that I know have bought Sig rangefinders, I have spoken to (2) others, just in my small group of hunting connections, that have also had to send theirs back as well for poor performance. It seems their is a pretty extreme variability in quality from unit to unit; and they admitted as much to me on the phone.
Take that for what it's worth.

 

[dgheriani]

I actually run that exact setup. I've had most of the iterations of the Sig LRFs (K2000, 2200, 2400BDX) and have had a few lemons in there but Sig always made it good. The Kestrel is an awesome tool, once you really learn to use it to its full potential. So far, the ranging capabilities of the Sig2400BDX have been great, I've ranged trees offhand at over a mile (which is as far as I've tried) and the integration between the LRF and Kestrel is quite good. I've had a few instances where the dope wasn't displayed in the LRF (just the range) but I've then re-ranged the target and gotten the dope as well as range. So it's not flawless but generally works quite well and the workflow is faster than ranging and then looking up the dope in your Kestrel.

 

[pugnado]

Thanks for the input guys! For now, I am going to explore low-cost solutions until I can see what the new 2019 devices look like.

So, today I got my hands on a weatherflow weathermeter, about $60:
(https://www.amazon.com/Weatherflow-Handheld-Smart-Phone-Weather/dp/B011WT29HO)
(https://shop.weatherflow.com/collections/meters/products/weathermeter)

In my backyard, I shoved it in a Kestrel 4000 weathervane mount ($50), with a block of wood as a spacer to keep it in position.
(https://www.amazon.com/Kestrel-4000-Rotating-Vane-Mount/dp/B001JEPK2E)

I paired it with my iPhone, calibrated the compass and was able to get the following data wirelessly via bluetooth into
4DOF (I shoot mainly Hornady bullets.)

Windspeed
Wind Direction relative to True North (0-360)
Temperature
Station Pressure
Humidity

Seems all that is left is to input the range, angle to target and a target azimuth.

Are there any ranging devices that can use a digital compass to do target azimuth?

I know most of the iPhone apps have you point your phone, phone camera at it etc... but I think this should be a function of
the ranging device too?

 

[pugnado]

Oh man, these things are on sale now too:

Regular $799, now $640 https://www.opticsplanet.com/sig-sauer-kilo-2400-dbx.html

 

[The King]

I would get the new 2800.com Leica frankly.

I have had several Sigs, and while they either range well or you send them back, I think I trust Leica more as a company to make it right the first time and make it last. I saw one broken Leica laser...once....after 10 years of hard use.

Oh, and the glass on the leica of course ass hammers the Sig.

 

[PAYDIRT]

StrelokPro- $12
Weather Channel app-free
Distance Tool app- free

Sounds stupid I know but those 3 will do everything.

 

[The King]

I don't often shoot where cell phones work. So yes, you are right. And No I can't get by without having a good offline setup.

StrelokPro- $12
Weather Channel app-free
Distance Tool app- free

Sounds stupid I know but those 3 will do everything.

 

[PAYDIRT]

I don't often shoot where cell phones work. So yes, you are right. And No I can't get by without having a good offline setup.

That sux. It's amazing how easy a smart phone has made life and how lost I feel when I have no service.

 

[pugnado]

Ideally, I want a good offline off the grid setup.

The closest public range I use to zero has no cell signal, no electricity and no shelter so that's a good test of field conditions.

I have a couple of laminated range cards, the MilDot Master etc... which sit in my rifle bag, don't take up too much space and work in a pinch.

I don't mind electronics as long as they are somewhat durable (water / moisture / cold resistant) and come with rechargeable batteries. I'd even consider a dedicated cheap small no-service Android phone in my range bag for Strelok and other apps.

I like the 2800.com, but it's a little steep at $1100. Does it have a magnetic compass in it that communicates firing direction to the Kestrel without having to point the Kestrel at the target? That's kind of a pain in the ass if it doesn't.

Imagine a situation where you're lying prone behind a blind or somewhere in concealment, and you've got the Kestrel in the wind vane mount reporting wind direction and speed somewhere else but within Bluetooth range. Your target moves from one side of your view to the other. (Or perhaps you've got multiple targets at different ranges, angles to the wind and angles to the firing position.)

Sounds like the way things are, you have to get up, hobble over to the Kestrel, point it at the target, press a button, then let it turn into the wind again, settle back down into your firing position. Rinse and repeat for every new target or target movement. With Strelok Pro and a WindMeter, you can point the phone's internal compass at the target and avoid all that.

If the Kestrel 5700 and some rangefinder could address this, I'd buy it in a second, but I can't find any technical documentation that says firing azimuth is communicated from the 2800.com or the BDX rangefinders. Here's a good video to sum it up:

 

[The King]

The 2800 has a compass and sends bearing to the kestrel.

 

[pugnado]

Took the weathermeter contraption out to the range for zero conditions. Set it up for a test on the bench. Spun itself into the mild wind (3mph) and reported environmentals like a champ.

4DOF crashes when no data available on the phone. StrelokPro worked great.

I’m looking into getting a cheap used iPhone with a rugged case for a dedicated setup, maybe attach it to the rail.

 

[cmarietta]

I currently have a Kestrel 5700 Elite and a Leica 1600 B. I was shopping for a new rangefinder that could communicate with my Kestrel and was leaning toward the Leica 2800.com. Then Cal Zant's new rangefinder comparison came out in the Precision Rifle Blog.... From his results, it looks like the 2800.com may not range any better than my 1600.

Does anybody have hands on experience with the 2800.com? I love the size and clarity of my 1600, but am hoping to find something that ranges further and can talk to my Kestrel.

 

[DaveM]

I have the Kestrel Elite and Sig 3000bdx binos. It is a friggin great setup. Very glad I got it. Hopefully they will make the HUD useful for competitions. If not, the DRS e-dope card is working on Iphone compatability.

 

[Individual1]

To the top.

Anybody happen to know if the Kestrel 5700 mates up (Bluetooth) with the Kilo 2400BDX, allowing you to use the Kestrel ballistics or only Sigs app?

Ok... Found out yes. I emailed Kestrel:

"Correct, you can connect a Kestrel to a Sig 2400BDX, range a target and the rangefinder will feed the range and inclination angle to the Kestrel to display a firing solution in the rangefinder."