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Range Report Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

fireguyty

fireguyty

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Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 24, 2010
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Las Vegas
Guys,
I'm gearing up for my 7mm Creedmoor project. Dies are in the mail from SAC. Reamer is one week out from PTG. My barrel blank is in the gun room for my DTA.

My intention is to give a non biased opinion of this wild cat, and to find something better for the tactical competition game (mostly 10-1000 yards with the majority inside of 600). I will do load development for the project, document, and if the project doesn't work like some guys are claiming (2900 FPS with the 162 A-max), I will reream to 7 SAUM.

Now to bullets......

Seems like most people think the 162 Amax is the go to bullet for this range of velocity. Would this be the way to go? What are Litz's numbers? G1 of .6 is what I hear. What about the 162 BTHP? 168 Berger VLD? Any others that are readily available worth looking into?

I have not spent a lot of time in 7mm, so any opinions are very welcome.

Thanks in advance,
Ty
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

Ty,

What's the twist rate/length on the barrel you plan to use? I know of one person that's competing, and doing quite well, with the 284 Shehane and he's using the Hornady 162 BTHP @ or near 3000fps. We chatted about the Amax which he'd used in the past and I can not remember why he switched to the BTHP, but he liked it better. He may be pointing them?
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fireguyty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys,

Now to bullets......

Seems like most people think the 162 Amax is the go to bullet for this range of velocity. Would this be the way to go? What are Litz's numbers? G1 of .6 is what I hear. What about the 162 BTHP? 168 Berger VLD? </div></div>

162gr AMAX
G1 = 0.599
G7 = 0.307

168gr Berger VLD
G1 = 0.617
G7 = 0.316

both per Litz AB for LRS
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

Damn, forgot that.

Gonna finish around 26-27" long, and the twist is 1-8"(I bought the tube for a 7 SAUM). I know that twist is pretty fast, but I don't think it will be a problem so long as I stay heavier than 160.

Thanks Lowe.
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

Inside 1000 the Amax's seem to perform as good as any, there are some that claim it has stability problems past the 1100 mark and say the BTHP doesn't.
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fireguyty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does Litz have numbers on the 162 BTHP?
</div></div>

No.

MWRoseberry uses the 162bthp and claims they hang right there with the amax, perhaps <span style="font-style: italic">slightly</span> behind.

I'm very interested in your testing.

I'd like to see the 175smk tested, as well as several powders. I might be able to help. PM me if you're interested in a test matrix.
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fireguyty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does Litz have numbers on the 162 BTHP?
</div></div>

It's not in his new book
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

Have any of the 7mm guys tested the Nosler 168 CC's?
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

Looking forward to this project Ty!
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

Build a straight 284 and don't look back. You will love it!!!!!
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fireguyty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does Litz have numbers on the 162 BTHP?
</div></div>

No.

MWRoseberry uses the 162bthp and claims they hang right there with the amax, perhaps <span style="font-style: italic">slightly</span> behind.

I'm very interested in your testing.

I'd like to see the 175smk tested, as well as several powders. I might be able to help. PM me if you're interested in a test matrix.</div></div>

Tell me about the 175. Typically where does it like to be seated? BC?

Gonna be trying out IMR 8208 XBR with the 162 for sure. Varget as well. Please let me know what other powders you think should be looked into.

Thanks and PM sent,

Ty
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Inside 1000 the Amax's seem to perform as good as any, there are some that claim it has stability problems past the 1100 mark and say the BTHP doesn't. </div></div>


We took out a few 162 amax's last weekend to try them out at a mile.

Both of us are running a saum. The amax needed about another mil and a some extra wind compared to the 180 bergers we normally shoot.
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lvgolfer962</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Inside 1000 the Amax's seem to perform as good as any, there are some that claim it has stability problems past the 1100 mark and say the BTHP doesn't. </div></div>


We took out a few 162 amax's last weekend to try them out at a mile.

Both of us are running a saum. The amax needed about another mil and a some extra wind compared to the 180 bergers we normally shoot.


</div></div>

Not surprising the Bergers seem to be the bullet to beat if you have case that can push them.
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

2 things.. your 2900 fps is going to be primarily dependent on powder type. Also, you may want to consider meloniting your barrel.

Do a search for Rodent's posts on here about his 7CM..
Im just waiting for the funds and ill be building one as well.
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fireguyty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tell me about the 175. Typically where does it like to be seated? BC?

Gonna be trying out IMR 8208 XBR with the 162 for sure. Varget as well. Please let me know what other powders you think should be looked into.

Thanks and PM sent,

Ty </div></div>

The 175smk is essentially the same exact OAL as the 162amax, almost the same boat tail, and it has a tangent ogive instead of the 162's secant. Come to think of it, it's rather amazing it has a G1BC of .64 as compared to the 162's .60...!

I've found in 3 barrels so far, it flat out doesn't give a shit how far off the lands it is.

For powder:

First off, I find it rather peculiar that 8208 seems to be *the* powder for this cartridge. The cartridge just doesn't seem to be that different than 7-08, and most have found H4350 to perform about best for it. H4350 is however, a bit too slow for the 708, which is why other people run Varget - which is really a bit fast. My experience with 308 and 175s indicated to me 8208 is a solid step too fast.

Anyway, it seems 8208 should be your starting point. Varget is a natural second choice. That being the case, it seems H4895 is a natural choice also because it splits the difference in burn speed, and packs a little tighter in the case than Varget does. If Varget and H4895 are in consideration, then Reloder 15 should also be in contention. Then there is powerpro 2000MR...

That should really cover the applicable burn speed. A lot of testing though, I know.

How much testing are you up for? What chrono do you have? How good at shooting groups are you?

PM inbound.
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flounderv2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, you may want to consider meloniting your barrel.
</div></div>

He wants to keep his re-chambering options open in case the cartridge isn't performing adequately, so melonite is out.
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flounderv2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, you may want to consider meloniting your barrel.
</div></div>

He wants to keep his re-chambering options open in case the cartridge isn't performing adequately, so melonite is out. </div></div>

Not necessarily true. My understanding is that the melonite process only goes about .002 deep. It would be harder on the reamer but i dont see any reason you couldnt re-chamber. Someone feel free to correct me if im wrong. (Not opinions, facts)
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 175smk is essentially the same exact OAL as the 162amax, almost the same boat tail, and it has a tangent ogive instead of the 162's secant. Come to think of it, it's rather amazing it has a G1BC of .64 as compared to the 162's .60...!
</div></div>

Nothing amazing about it at all. As you cite, they have similar profiles which does in fact show up in a very similar form factor - the 175gr SMK has a G1 form factor of 0.486, which is just a tad worse than the 162gr AMax's 0.480. The 175gr SMK has a much heavier sectional density: 0.310 lb/in2 vs the 162gr's 0.287.

Remember, BC is nothing more than sectional density divided by (form factor * caliber^2). The higher BC on the 175gr SMK is simply a function of its heavier weight, which more than offsets its slightly less efficient form factor (I'm sure the poorer form factor comes from its tangent ogives vs the Amax's secant ogives).

Fun stuff!
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

Perhaps I mis-spoke and should have used the term form factor.

It is suprising to me (and many others) the 175smk form factor is as low as it is, being that it has a tangent ogive, and is [essentially] no longer than the 162amax.
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flounderv2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flounderv2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, you may want to consider meloniting your barrel.
</div></div>

He wants to keep his re-chambering options open in case the cartridge isn't performing adequately, so melonite is out. </div></div>

Not necessarily true. My understanding is that the melonite process only goes about .002 deep. It would be harder on the reamer but i dont see any reason you couldnt re-chamber. Someone feel free to correct me if im wrong. (Not opinions, facts) </div></div>

I've machined parts that have been SBN'd, and not been successful with HSS tooling. Yes, it'll cut - a little, before the tool is hurt. Poor surface finish and a wrecked tool is the result. Carbide works much better.

I was discussing this with Karl Feldcamp this summer. He told me he certainly wouldn't send one of his reamers into a melonited barrel.

This is of course somewhat anecdotal though.
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

Ty, I shoot the 162amax exclusively out of my SRS, my 24" barrel gets them up to 3020 with a very mild load. I have had such good luck with them I haven't bothered to shoot anything else. I did try the 175smk and 180smk, but they didn't fair as well for me. And at 1600 they were a full MIL lower than the 162.

On another note, Russ1911 and I shot a while back out in the desert, and he was shooting both 162 amax's and 168 Bergers. He was using the exact same dope for both loads, and if I recall correctly, the groups were as if one load.

My saum is certainly capable of more velocity, but I keep it where it is for economy.If you can get it to 2900 with the CM, It should be a winner.
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Perhaps I mis-spoke and should have used the term form factor.

It is suprising to me (and many others) the 175smk form factor is as low as it is, being that it has a tangent ogive, and is [essentially] no longer than the 162amax. </div></div>

I agree. 175gr SMK has the lowest form factor of any bullet in Sierra's ENTIRE line up! As such, its an excellent projectile. Interestingly, the 162gr Amax has one of the lowest form factors in Hornady's lineup as well.
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flounderv2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flounderv2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, you may want to consider meloniting your barrel.
</div></div>

He wants to keep his re-chambering options open in case the cartridge isn't performing adequately, so melonite is out. </div></div>

Not necessarily true. My understanding is that the melonite process only goes about .002 deep. It would be harder on the reamer but i dont see any reason you couldnt re-chamber. Someone feel free to correct me if im wrong. (Not opinions, facts) </div></div>

I've machined parts that have been SBN'd, and not been successful with HSS tooling. Yes, it'll cut - a little, before the tool is hurt. Poor surface finish and a wrecked tool is the result. Carbide works much better.

I was discussing this with Karl Feldcamp this summer. He told me he certainly wouldn't send one of his reamers into a melonited barrel.

This is of course somewhat anecdotal though.

</div></div>

Fair enough. I was thinking actually thinking carbide would be the way to do it if you were going to.
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What chrono do you have?

<span style="color: #FF0000">Pro Chrono and a Shooting Chrony. The Shooting Chrony is junk, but I have found that the Pro Chrono is as accurate as any of my friends expensive ones.</span>

How good at shooting groups are you?

<span style="color: #FF0000">My current barrel will shoot .1-.2 MOA no problem at 100 yards. I on the other hand can kiss that sometimes, but usually not that consistent. On the top side, I'm very upset with myself if I can't hold about .4 MOA. Two of my buddies (JFComfort and D. Miller) are excellent group shooters. I'll have them double check my work.</span>

PM inbound.</div></div>

I appreciate all the help and knowledge.

Ty
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColdBoreMiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ty, I shoot the 162amax exclusively out of my SRS, my 24" barrel gets them up to 3020 with a very mild load. I have had such good luck with them I haven't bothered to shoot anything else. I did try the 175smk and 180smk, but they didn't fair as well for me. And at 1600 they were a full MIL lower than the 162.

On another note, Russ1911 and I shot a while back out in the desert, and he was shooting both 162 amax's and 168 Bergers. He was using the exact same dope for both loads, and if I recall correctly, the groups were as if one load.

My saum is certainly capable of more velocity, but I keep it where it is for economy.If you can get it to 2900 with the CM, It should be a winner.</div></div>

Thanks CBM. Seems like there is no reason not to just stick with the 162 Amax as my starting bullet. I may play with that 175 SMK a bit too though.

Ty
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

As I was just saying on another thread, I have been trying to find the right load for my new 7mm08 and I have been using primarily the 162 Amax & 162 BTHP. My gun is a GAP with 22" 8 1/2 twist. I have only shot steel past 100 yds but on paper at 100 yds I haven't been able to tell 10 cents difference between the two. My best results thus far have been from Varget & Benchmark powders, but I am looking forward to trying the 8208 and H414. I have had poor success with H4350 which was a big disappointment since my .243 loves it and I keep 8lbs. laying around always. I have tried the 175 SMK and they did well with the fast twist rate. I love Berger bullets and shoot the 180s out of my STW but Hornadys give you more bang for your buck vs the Bergers in my opinion.
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

Give RE17 a look
thou most bitch about its temp instability few have actually tried working with it, mostly just regurgitating 2nd & 3rd hand information

http://www.6mmbr.com/reloder17.html
factual info vs conjecture
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

Jedi - good article on RL17.

I see where the temp was hot when they were doing some of the testing but I don't see any hot/cold comparisons. Curious on what you saw supporting temp stability?

I have some RL17 that I was going to try in my 7-08 with 162's when I get it up and running but have not had a chance to work with it yet.
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

I shoot the 162 Sierra's and Hornady AMAX in my 7mm mag and have had to date great results. However, I have been pushing them with Re22 magnum powder. Via this thread, it looks as though changing the powder could increase my groups? I am concerned I may be using a too hot of a load now.
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

Oops looks like i linked wrong article
let me dig other one up, will post when have link
 
Re: Talk me out of the 7mm 162 Amax

I have compared the .284 bullets electronically for three years now. If you compare them for as hard as you can run each respectively it seems 162s are hard to beat. There are slicker bullets for sure (ie) 189 caturusio customs at almost .8 but you have to have horse power to get the advantage. I shoot the 162s out of my 280ai. They shoot very well and seem to be very consistent in weight. I also shoot them because they kill deer like crazy. I have another 280 ai for hunting that shoots the same load. I've probably shot 1500 of them. For .284s in general there is no doubt as to whether a hit on steels has been made. It is very easy for the RO to call the target hit. You will like the .284 in general. I am very interested to see your velocitys. I am running a 28 in barrel and 61 grains of 4831sc behind a 162 for 3000 even. If you get to 2900 it will for sure be a very efficient cartridge. I hope it works because the powder savings alone will be worth something as many rounds as we shoot to prep and shoot matches.
T
 
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