Tard proof 6.5 140g load...

[Bender]

I changed from .3 oh wait... to an RPR 6.5 Creedmoor and love it. It’s like cheating compared to the .308! I’ve been shooting Hornaday’s Ameican Gunner bulk ammo and I wish to load something easy with the brass. 140g at about 2700ish is all I’m looking for. I don’t do comps but I need a recommendation for dies and recipe. I don’t want to chase a load forever. I don’t want to tinker... what’s a go-to die set and load?

 

[flyer]

Probably Hornady deluxe 2 die set, 140 grain ELD-M bullet, Federal 210M primer and I think somewhere around 42 grains of H4350 powder.

You should run a OCW ladder to find a good accuracy node and spot any pressure signs before you go too hot.

Some old timers will say you don't need a chronograph but get a chronograph so you can see what charge weight and temperature do to velocity instead of just reading primers and estimating velocity with bullet drop.

 

[Bender]

If I get .5 MOA and 2700ish fps I’ll just plink with it.

 

[Bandit31]

140gr Eld-m, 41.8gr H4350, Hornady brass and a CC1 200 or Fed primer @ 2.820". I think it's close to the old factory 140 amax load. It'll likely shoot just fine.

 

[Bender]

Just a Redding full length die with bushings?

 

[47guy]

Hornady brass 40.4g H4350 140g ELDM .040 off...yes I said .040 off the lands that’s not a typo...this load was a mistake made by a buddy of mine...he miss-measured his distance to lands and this load was shooting 1 hole groups.

Another buddy came out and was having problems finding a good load so he shot 5 of the above 1 hole group...this peaked my interest so I call another buddy and had him come out same thing...this was in 3 totally different barrels actions stocks ect

41.5g .020 off is another sweet spot

 

[Bandit31]

Yeah, I like the type s. Seem to work bueno for me so I use them for everything I load.

 

[Codiekfx400]

H4350 or RL16 is the powder of choice. Federal 210M primer 140 ELD. Can’t go wrong with that combo.

 

[Rick7353]

H4350 or RL16 is the powder of choice. Federal 210M primer 140 ELD. Can’t go wrong with that combo.

I have tried H100V with 39 grains with 6.5 Creedmoor in my savage varmint with 140 ELDM, ALSO 8208XBR, H4350, BL (C)2, I've done saterlee tests to find ocw.

 

[RNWRKNP]

+another one for Type S Redding. 42g 4350, Fed 210, 2.805 mag length, 2757fps, 1/2- MOA in a gas gun but that’s a pretty hot load amigo.

Edit:
With that bolt gun your gonna want a neck sizing die in conjunction with you full size. You’ll want an S die for that as well. Expensive but worth it IMHO

 

[spife7980]

Edit:
With that bolt gun your gonna want a neck sizing die in conjunction with you full size. You’ll want an S die for that as well. Expensive but worth it IMHO

Why?

 

[Huskydriver]

Most 140 gr class bullets with H4350 in the 41.5-43 range should produce a easy fuss free sub moa load in my experience. I have also had great experience with h4831sc in the 45.3 gr area which is almost a compressed load seating to the lands in my gun so work up with caution. Sierra is the only manual I know of listing a 4831sc load.

 

[RNWRKNP]

Why?

For using fire formed cases specific to his chamber with specific neck tension based on his gun. Lot of people here with more experience than me so why not?

 

[spife7980]

Because it will have already been sized with the full length you recommended first. Maybe if you had recommended a body die plus neck die set up but that takes twice the work for the same result. I guess you could also take the bushing out of your first recommended type s die to act as a body but then what’s the point of getting the bushing die you recommended?

And neck sizing is for rubes. It’s great if you like difficulty chambering, stuck cases and bolt click. I say this as a former necksizer.

Full length, every time but not to minimum saami specs. Just enough to bump the shoulders back .001-.002 in a bolt and .003-.004 in a semi. You’ll have cases that are formed close to your chamber but only without the interference fit.

 

[47guy]

Because it will have already been sized with the full length you recommended first. Maybe if you had recommended a body die plus neck die set up but that takes twice the work for the same result. I guess you could also take the bushing out of your first recommended type s die to act as a body but then what’s the point of getting the bushing die you recommended?

And neck sizing is for rubes. It’s great if you like difficulty chambering, stuck cases and bolt click. I say this as a former necksizer.

Full length, everyone but not to minimum saami specs. Just enough to bump the shoulders back .001-.002 in a bolt and .003-.004 in a semi. You’ll have cases that are formed close to your chamber but only without the interference fit.

this right here^^^ friends dont let friends neck size.

 

[supercorndogs]

Because it will have already been sized with the full length you recommended first. Maybe if you had recommended a body die plus neck die set up but that takes twice the work for the same result. I guess you could also take the bushing out of your first recommended type s die to act as a body but then what’s the point of getting the bushing die you recommended?

And neck sizing is for rubes. It’s great if you like difficulty chambering, stuck cases and bolt click. I say this as a former necksizer.

Full length, every time but not to minimum saami specs. Just enough to bump the shoulders back .001-.002 in a bolt and .003-.004 in a semi. You’ll have cases that are formed close to your chamber but only without the interference fit.

Quit loading so hot, and you can neck size several times before you have problems with any of that. A lot times I neck size with my FL die because the shoulders have not moved far enough forward to bump. What a waste of time to lube and tumble them, if a quick run through a collet die would have finished them up. Don't get hung up with the crowd that thinks there is only one way to skin a cat. There are many different tools available to us, no need to assume some of them have no use.

 

[Codiekfx400]

Forster makes a nice fl die and a nice seater die if you can find it in stock.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Quit loading so hot, and you can neck size several times before you have problems with any of that. A lot times I neck size with my FL die because the shoulders have not moved far enough forward to bump. What a waste of time to lube and tumble them, if a quick run through a collet die would have finished them up. Don't get hung up with the crowd that thinks there is only one way to skin a cat. There are many different tools available to us, no need to assume some of them have no use.

I agree with spife, I used to try get one neck sizing in after the first firing, not all brass grows at the same rate unless you have access to better brass than I can buy. There was always 2% of brass that would not chamber, so then you pull or size loaded rds. I'm not saying a neck die isn't handy to have on hand, but there is no logical explanation today to neck size. Even BR shooters have gotten away from it and one reason is utilizing case expansion in your favor.

 

[47guy]

I neck sized when I first started reloading...did nothing but cause problems for me...doughnuts and inconsistent brass like milo said.

Then I started using a body die and a collet die...this creates 2 steps and with everything else it got to the point I hated reloading.

I bought a Forster FL die and have never looked back...as a matter of fact I’ve had my most accurate ammo from FL sizing but is it actually from FL sizing or spending more time on the trigger and less time at the loading bench trying to create ammo of the gods!?!

As far as tumbling goes I like shinny things and if the sun catches my brass just right at a match it blinds the guy next to me and improves my odds of winning.

 

[TripleBull]

Bender, if you look around the reloading subforum, you'll find posts about having Forster custom grind the FLSD. Also you may want to yank the expander ball and use a mandrel to set the neck size, especially if you want low muzzle velocity variation.

 

[Bender]

So... a forester FL with shims for neck sizing? Is this what I need to buy? All I have now is lee 4 die set for .308 and .223. I want a quick and painless two die setup if possible. I hate brass prep and I ain’t gunna turn necks.... lol

 

[RNWRKNP]

Because it will have already been sized with the full length you recommended first. Maybe if you had recommended a body die plus neck die set up but that takes twice the work for the same result. I guess you could also take the bushing out of your first recommended type s die to act as a body but then what’s the point of getting the bushing die you recommended?

And neck sizing is for rubes. It’s great if you like difficulty chambering, stuck cases and bolt click. I say this as a former necksizer.

Full length, every time but not to minimum saami specs. Just enough to bump the shoulders back .001-.002 in a bolt and .003-.004 in a semi. You’ll have cases that are formed close to your chamber but only without the interference fit.

I tend to agree with supercorndog but appreciate you sharing the other side of the coin. I was in the reloading side of SH a long time before I ever joined and respect for your contributions amigo? Thanks to you guys I was off the bench and out the door with an accurate load for my 6.5 gasser in short order.

 

[spife7980]

Quit loading so hot, and you can neck size several times before you have problems with any of that. A lot times I neck size with my FL die because the shoulders have not moved far enough forward to bump. What a waste of time to lube and tumble them, if a quick run through a collet die would have finished them up. Don't get hung up with the crowd that thinks there is only one way to skin a cat. There are many different tools available to us, no need to assume some of them have no use.

Yesh, many different cats to skin.
But he recommended a Redding neck die which is way more expensive than a lee collet. Redding’s competition kit that comes with all three is like 300 something bucks. It’s ridiculous. Especially when, as you said, a normal full length not screwed down all the way does the same thing with no additional expenditure. But running them through,with the die set up for the longest piece, will guarantee that I never have to get out a mallet to hammer my bolt open again with not hot loads.

For a tard proof load a simple two die full length set and decent powder measuring is all it takes.

 

[Huskydriver]

I will throw the hornady match bushing dies in the ring...usually around 70 bucks or so and work the same as a redding type s bushing die using the same bushings...I like mine and they come with a removable expander ball if you need to do a real FL size. I have never used the redding dies but I hear thats the go to for most serious re loaders.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018253567/hornady-match-grade-new-dimension-bushing-2-die-set

 

[Codiekfx400]

Here is what you need for dies. https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....oor-full-length-die-and-bench-rest-seater-set

 

[supercorndogs]

Yesh, many different cats to skin.
But he recommended a Redding neck die which is way more expensive than a lee collet. Redding’s competition kit that comes with all three is like 300 something bucks. It’s ridiculous. Especially when, as you said, a normal full length not screwed down all the way does the same thing with no additional expenditure. But running them through,with the die set up for the longest piece, will guarantee that I never have to get out a mallet to hammer my bolt open again with not hot loads.

For a tard proof load a simple two die full length set and decent powder measuring is all it takes.

You aren't going to be hammering your bolt open from neck sizing rounds. The only thing that will have you doing that is way too much pressure, or sharing neck sized brass between two rifles. The thing about reloading is, there is nothing tard proof about it. A simple two die set is the easiest and cheapest way to go, as well as probably the most popular. For the most part I FL everything every time. 300wm is my exception.

I used to collet size my 223 brass three or four times between bumping shoulders. Back then I only had a few hundred pieces of brass. I would go empty them in a prairie dog down. Then run home, reload them, and head to another town. I can't say I do anymore. I just lube and FL them. i usually anneal them too, but now i work in much bigger lots.

I was not questioning your logic or anything like that. It is solid, and 99% I agree with you. I just meant to say, there is some limited use.

 

[bfglowkey]

OP is asking for 2700 FPS and is plinking.....folks keep it simple:
Hornady Brass
CCI large rifle primer
Hornady 140 BTHP
H4350 powder ( in my RPR 42.3 is a sweet spot)

But keep in mind it's good in my conditions/ scenario. But if the American Gunner is working for you and you don't already reload...just buy that stuff. It shoots good and spend time plinking vs reloading and chasing loads.

As for dies ..Hornady Customs work well enough to make what your desiring
YMMV and so may everyone's opinion

 

[Bender]

OP is asking for 2700 FPS and is plinking.....folks keep it simple:
Hornady Brass
CCI large rifle primer
Hornady 140 BTHP
H4350 powder ( in my RPR 42.3 is a sweet spot)

But keep in mind it's good in my conditions/ scenario. But if the American Gunner is working for you and you don't already reload...just buy that stuff. It shoots good and spend time plinking vs reloading and chasing loads.

As for dies ..Hornady Customs work well enough to make what your desiring
YMMV and so may everyone's opinion

I have three boxes of bulk brass... so like 600ish for brass. Winter is coming and I need something to do when the wind is above 40 and it’s below 30degs outside. Sportsmans has the 200rd boxes at $139.

 

[bfglowkey]

You can buy 500 of the 140 BTHP Hornadys for around 116-130. Should take about 2lbs of powder and you will have some left over. H4350 is pretty hard proof. RL 16 is almost as tard proof. 40.4 will be a good start...41.0 also was a good node

 

[Bender]

You can buy 500 of the 140 BTHP Hornadys for around 116-130. Should take about 2lbs of powder and you will have some left over. H4350 is pretty hard proof. RL 16 is almost as tard proof. 40.4 will be a good start...41.0 also was a good node

I should have said, I shot the bulk American Gunner 140g @ about 600 or so. My buddy shoots the same round but does not reload so I get his brass as well. I just want to bulk reload some more plinking ammo that shoots an inch or less. I don’t need to stack them at 100. But if it happens, I’ll take it. Just not my goal.

 

[bfglowkey]

Then I definitely say the Hornady 140 HPBT . If you have a Cabela's close the 140 Barnes Matchburner is a hidden gem for 20 per 100 at Cabela's. Same powder recommended though. H4350 or RL 16

 

[Supersubes]

I changed from .3 oh wait... to an RPR 6.5 Creedmoor and love it. It’s like cheating compared to the .308! I’ve been shooting Hornaday’s Ameican Gunner bulk ammo and I wish to load something easy with the brass. 140g at about 2700ish is all I’m looking for. I don’t do comps but I need a recommendation for dies and recipe. I don’t want to chase a load forever. I don’t want to tinker... what’s a go-to die set and load?

Remember that when the next “move to 6.5 creed or rebarrel my .308?” thread comes up and all the .308 shooters tell us that there’s really not that much difference between them. You can LOL along with us.

On a serious note, my vote is for the Hornady match dies. About half the cost of the Redding set, and superior quality imo. Nothing wrong with the Forster dies either. I’m well vested in neck bushings so tend to stick with bushing dies.

I prefer RL16 or RL26 to h4350.


Here is a pic of Hornady match 6.5prc FL sizer I bought on sale at midway for $24 bucks about a week ago. I own four sets of Hornady match dies in various cartridges, and every one of them look like my custom dies inside. Low effort sizing, not hungry for lube, and dimensionally very good(opposite of Redding lately). Couldn’t be happier.

 

[LG65CM]

I changed from .3 oh wait... to an RPR 6.5 Creedmoor and love it. It’s like cheating compared to the .308! I’ve been shooting Hornaday’s Ameican Gunner bulk ammo and I wish to load something easy with the brass. 140g at about 2700ish is all I’m looking for. I don’t do comps but I need a recommendation for dies and recipe. I don’t want to chase a load forever. I don’t want to tinker... what’s a go-to die set and load?

I too started with AM GNR and when I started reloading,set out to mirror it. Usinng RCBS dies. 1xF Horn brass, Fed 210 primers, 44 gns Superformance, Horn 140 gn BTHP Match. Just under 2700, with bulletholes ingroups touching @ 100 yds. COAL 2.80 Good luck. Started working with H 4350 at 41 gns.Going to try some other charge wts with that powder given here. Thanx!!! Lg

 

[canezach]

I switched from H4350 to Reloder 16, since finding H4350 was like finding a leprechaun riding a unicorn. I find Reloder 16 to be every bit as good as H4350, if not superior. In Hornady brass, my load was 42.0 grains of Reloder 16 (and 42.4 grains of H4350) with just about every 140 grain projectile. I've used the Hornady 140 AMAX, 140 ELDM, 140 BTHP, Barnes 140 Match Burner, Nosler 140 RDF, Berger 140 Hybrid, 140 VLD, and a handful of others. While most of them shot very well, my surprise favorite is the Hornady 140 BTHP. Consistently accurate, but pretty inexpensive at 22 cents apiece, and it's the same bullet used in the American Gunner line. I used CCI BR2 primers, resized with a Redding Type S bushing die, then used a mandrel to set my neck tension at 0.002", and seated the bullet at 0.020" off the lands. (the RDF is the only exception since it likes to jump, so try 0.030" or more for them) You'll find the sweet spot in a majority of rifles is at or near 42.0 grains of H4350. I know you were looking for 2700ish for a MV. The 42.0 grain loads typically put you a little higher. If I remember correctly, that load was giving me a MV of just over 2800ish.

 

[PaC1776]

since finding H4350 was like finding a leprechaun riding a unicorn

Powder Valley had about 170 8lb H4350 in stock yesterday.

 

[canezach]

Powder Valley had about 170 8lb H4350 in stock yesterday.

I switched to RL16 about two years ago

 

[strat81]

I should have said, I shot the bulk American Gunner 140g @ about 600 or so. My buddy shoots the same round but does not reload so I get his brass as well. I just want to bulk reload some more plinking ammo that shoots an inch or less. I don’t need to stack them at 100. But if it happens, I’ll take it. Just not my goal.

With the factory American Gunner available for ~70 cents per round and 1x fired Hornady brass selling for ~35 cents per round, I've found it's just not worth it to hand load for plinking ammo, especially when American Gunner performs around 1 MOA.

Looking at today's prices on Midsouth and assuming your brass is free-
8# of H4350 is $192. 8lb*7000gr/40gr per load = 13.7 cents for powder
CCI Large Rifle Primers are $29.59. = 3 cents per primer
A box of 500 Hornady 140gr BTHP is $116.61. = 23.3 cents per bullet

That comes to 40 cents per round. That's before shipping, hazmat, tax, title, license, fees, and your time (and wear & tear on your barrel).

No, I didn't account for buying a semi full of powder and primers to get a bulk discount. No, I didn't account for the primers you paid $10/box for during the Clinton administration.

Now, if you're aiming for 1/2 MOA or better, then hand loading makes sense.

Spend the extra time you save by buying factory ammo instead of hand loading shooting .22s with your wife and kids.

 

[47guy]

Bender, if you look around the reloading subforum, you'll find posts about having Forster custom grind the FLSD. Also you may want to yank the expander ball and use a mandrel to set the neck size, especially if you want low muzzle velocity variation.

I have to politely disagree about the part where you say remove the expander and use a mandrel...”especially if you want low ESs and/or low SDs”

This is a 6.5x47...3 different barrels...300pcs of brass from the first barrel..300pcs from the 2nd and current barrel...2 different lot numbers all mixed together...no prep work done to any of the brass....all full length sized every time with an off the shelf whidden die.

I’m not saying there’s a right or wrong way to load but IMHO all the extra steps are a waste of time for the type of shooting that 90% of us on this board do.

 

[TripleBull]

I’m not saying there’s a right or wrong way to load but IMHO all the extra steps are a waste of time for the type of shooting that 90% of us on this board do.

What type of shooting do 90% of the people on this board do?

 

[Codiekfx400]

What type of shooting do 90% of the people on this board do?

Most of the people on this board are shooting steel targets at 100 to 1000 yards. If I can hold .5 Moa for 5 shots consistently that is good enough for me. Can I shoot a .1” 5 shot group at 100 yards? Sure I can if I shoot 50 groups and pick the best one.

 

[TripleBull]

Most of the people on this board are shooting steel targets at 100 to 1000 yards. If I can hold .5 Moa for 5 shots consistently that is good enough for me. Can I shoot a .1” 5 shot group at 100 yards? Sure I can if I shoot 50 groups and pick the best one.

My question was tongue-in-cheek. We've got hunters, ELR shooters, competitors of all kinds, cannon shooters, etc. I mean, the place is called Sniper's Hide, so there are many military and LEO shooters that are concerned with first shot kills (or at least hits). Trying to group a type of shooting that 90% do might be a bit difficult do do from just reading the threads.

I'm ready to see that 0.1" 5 shot group @100. Surely you've shot 50 groups, so show it!

 

[JMcBurn]

Most of the people on this board are shooting steel targets at 100 to 1000 yards. If I can hold .5 Moa for 5 shots consistently that is good enough for me. Can I shoot a .1” 5 shot group at 100 yards? Sure I can if I shoot 50 groups and pick the best one.

I am a .1 shooter for the first two .3 shooter for 3 and by 5 i am usually a .5 shooter. Wish I could shoot .1moa 5 shot groups.

But to throw my opinion in the ring. Forster FL and seater combo for like $75 is pretty hard to beat. I dont like how much lube the hornady lower tier dies seem to need for the expander mandrel coming out of the die. I assume it is because it is over sizing the brass, but if you go with the hornady bushing you are already over the Forster die cost and then it is one more thing to play with.

Note: I have hornady lower tier dies for 6.5 creedmoor and 223 and both seem to need a ton of lube on the inside of the neck.

 

[47guy]

My question was tongue-in-cheek. We've got hunters, ELR shooters, competitors of all kinds, cannon shooters, etc. I mean, the place is called Sniper's Hide, so there are many military and LEO shooters that are concerned with first shot kills (or at least hits). Trying to group a type of shooting that 90% do might be a bit difficult do do from just reading the threads.

I'm ready to see that 0.1" 5 shot group @100. Surely you've shot 50 groups, so show it!

Your right I was wrong to group 90% of the ppl on this board it was a number I used to make a point and the point was that you do not have to do all sorts of prep work or spend hours at the bench to make accurate ammo.

I am not a group shooter but here’s 6 at 100 out of my 47

Or how about cold bore dimes outta my buddies 6.5CM with 5x fired never annealed no prep outta the gun FL sized primed charged seated and shot Hornady brass

 

[TripleBull]

I understand making ammo appropriate to the need, but also don't think of using a mandrel as being laborious or slow. I've seen excellent benefit on ammo quality and brass life. It probably costs me less than 5 seconds a round.

Nice shooting!

 

[47guy]

thanks

 

[mi223]

Just a Redding full length die with bushings?

If you are looking for simple and good enough, save your money and just get standard full length die set. Type s dies are for those who like to tinker.

 

[Adamah]

Hornady brass 40.4g H4350 140g ELDM .040 off...yes I said .040 off the lands that’s not a typo...this load was a mistake made by a buddy of mine...he miss-measured his distance to lands and this load was shooting 1 hole groups.

Another buddy came out and was having problems finding a good load so he shot 5 of the above 1 hole group...this peaked my interest so I call another buddy and had him come out same thing...this was in 3 totally different barrels actions stocks ect

41.5g .020 off is another sweet spot

What's the velocity on that, 2550ish?

 

[47guy]

lapua brass 2700-2720...hornady brass i think is 2680-2700

 

[1J04]

Well you Boyz have remained pretty damn civil through all of this. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Especially the half of ya I know fairly well and the bunch of ya I know of 'somewhat'.

Brother @Bender all your answers are pretty much already all posted up fer yuh in here. Not to go all SJW or grab hands for a Kumbaya moment but IMHO probably one of thee best pieces of advice in here is "There Is More Than One Way To Skin This Cat". Once we come to that educated conclusion we see yes, yes indeed we can do this a number of ways to go pew. Problem is 'after' the pew. Then your gun, equipment, components, and methodology raise their filthy issues for us to figure out.

We know we can literally live on the damn bench, loading bench that is, not shooting bench. The shooting bench is for those who actually have time to breakaway from their loading bench to go enjoy. BTDT. I really like your straight up question. Years ago you'd have been skinned for it.

I'm a Hunter first and foremost. Period. Shoot steel and paper god knows how many times a week. Anywhere from 100 to 12-1300 usually. Love long range shooting. Who doesn't? It's a kick in the ass. And to do it with pretty damn good consistency only takes a few basic steps. But then yep, here come the variables like annealing after you've either split or encountered ICHS.

Let's not go there. Let's keep it really simple. "I" load up my new brass with my full throttle load and shoot it. Then do my case prep with a full length sizer die to one or two thou, run my sized brass through the gun with the bolt stripped to ensure I don't have a hard crush effect when closing. Then load'm up again. If you're not annealing then shoot the damn things 3-4 times and toss'm and start all over again. An S this, a bushing that, wholly shit, you won't even know what you need most of the time before you find out you do through trial and error. A standard Full Length set of Dies is more than enough for MOST cases. But as stated earlier, everything has a caveat. Then we need to address those issues with a different methodology and components to correct the error's of our ways.

You got this, and there's always a lot of good advice on here. But like everywhere else, there's plenty of full blown bullshit to sift through as well. Having said that, sift well my friend.

As you were.

 

[Bender]

Yeah @1J04, I do actually shoot. Lol not just bitch about work or troll in the pit... lol. I’ll just get the Hornady full length set and go from there. I don’t want to live on the reloading bench....