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Technology for (Making the shot)

madppcs

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Oct 23, 2011
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    Forest hill, Louisiana
    Man Ive been seeing a ton of gadgets and technology appear on this forum that allows pretty much anyone at any experience level make incredible shots, and push boundaries that weren't even conceivable 20yrs ago.
    Ballistic calculators/computers
    Laser rangefinders with LIDAR for windspeed
    Light transmission in day optics
    ETC...

    Is it accurate to say that alot of the (fun) is being removed? Take beginner/novice shooters and hand them the latest tech and they ring steel consistently at incredible ranges with short actions, long actions, gas guns, pretty much everything in little to no time and not much effort.

    Take alot of us that have put in YEARS and YEARS of range time, research, work, overtime, more work and overtime, range time, (Did I say more work?) to zero and dope rifles the old ways. I think over the years I had more fun doing it that way, and wouldnt trade it for nothing, than to buy the expensive gadgets that cut my range time and work in half. To me, thats part of the fun. The complete mystery in what a new rifle, caliber, load will do from start to max effective range.

    I think its Ironic that Im an Electronic Tech but I dont even use a ballistic app. And Im not saying anything bad about the products or anyone that use them. They definitely improve the sport, and probably even draw more people into shooting.

    But does it actually take a little away?
     
    If it makes it less fun for you, don't use it. Apparently it doesn't take anything away from the guys using it. Its a good skill to just have a rifle and a scope and be able to hit targets. I grew up ranging with a duplex reticle. Always worked on deer and elk sized targets out to 600. 1.5 MOA targets, at distance, not so much. Get out beyond 600 you need a little more precision than guessing a quarter of a half of a 14 MOA duplex for first round hits. Bottom line, use what you want and others can do the same. I assume you are on this forum to gather information. So, you are in fact using expensive technology that allows you to utilize the knowledge of people around the world to better your skill set. Thats a pretty fucking fancy gadget. Just sayin
     
    If it makes it less fun for you, don't use it. Apparently it doesn't take anything away from the guys using it. Its a good skill to just have a rifle and a scope and be able to hit targets. I grew up ranging with a duplex reticle. Always worked on deer and elk sized targets out to 600. 1.5 MOA targets, at distance, not so much. Get out beyond 600 you need a little more precision than guessing a quarter of a half of a 14 MOA duplex for first round hits. Bottom line, use what you want and others can do the same. I assume you are on this forum to gather information. So, you are in fact using expensive technology that allows you to utilize the knowledge of people around the world to better your skill set. Thats a pretty fucking fancy gadget. Just sayin
    Your right. Nobody is forced to purchase and use tech. Guess I was just jealous of all the stuff most guys here get to use. Maybe my outlook would be different if I had money to spend on the latest and greatest lol.

    Until then, Ill have to settle with the phrase (Just send another one) lol
     
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    Excuse me ma'am, but you misspelled Generation X wrong. lmfao.
    Yall might be mistaking my post. Im not hating on all the tech. Thats probably the top reason why people are able to do what they do at great distance.
    Do yall carry 1 rifle, 1 box of bullets, and a wheelbarrow full of electronics?
     
    Excuse me ma'am, but you misspelled Generation X wrong. lmfao.
    Yall might be mistaking my post. Im not hating on all the tech. Thats probably the top reason why people are able to do what they do at great distance.
    Do yall carry 1 rifle, 1 box of bullets, and a wheelbarrow full of electronics?

    I carry whatever mettc dictates I need for the mission at hand. Don't forget to take your centrum silver and stretch this morning
     
    Excuse me ma'am, but you misspelled Generation X wrong. lmfao.
    Yall might be mistaking my post. Im not hating on all the tech. Thats probably the top reason why people are able to do what they do at great distance.
    Do yall carry 1 rifle, 1 box of bullets, and a wheelbarrow full of electronics?
    Lol boomer is a state of mind.

    And I see the appeal of not wanting to use any of that and doing it the old fashioned ways, hell I couldn't afford a kestrel or magnetospeed when I first got a precision rifle, so I had to just spend a shitton of rounds getting and confirming dope out to like 1200 at K&M.

    I enjoy using the tech now because its more time and rounds I can spend actually practicing instead of laying down in the prone gathering dope. Then I can know if I miss that my fundamentals are bad, and not wonder whether I missed because of bad dope.
     
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    I got into long range shooting maybe 5 years ago, and not really "seriously" until the past couple years. For me, using a kestrel and a rangefinder takes a lot of the work out of the way in order to see some success, but it doesn't take away the drive to learn how to do it without the gadgets. I still want to learn how to do it in case the gadgets don't do their job when they're needed most. It just gets rid of the initial frustration of learning how to range with a reticle, or calculating drops either through trial and error or math, and failing a lot along the way.

    Like deersniper said it's a time saver. It saves time seeing some success while I learn the hard way.
     
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    It's just like a super light short lighter in an AR to shoot faster compared to learning and practicing trigger control. People expect high results with little to no work.

    Not to say I dont utilize some tech myself, but I also learned and know how to do things when the battery dies.
     
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    Lol boomer is a state of mind.

    And I see the appeal of not wanting to use any of that and doing it the old fashioned ways, hell I couldn't afford a kestrel or magnetospeed when I first got a precision rifle, so I had to just spend a shitton of rounds getting and confirming dope out to like 1200 at K&M.

    I enjoy using the tech now because its more time and rounds I can spend actually practicing instead of laying down in the prone gathering dope. Then I can know if I miss that my fundamentals are bad, and not wonder whether I missed because of bad dope.

    Guess I just been looking at it from only my perspective.
    Im just used to shooting and if my impact is off, then its a variable that I overlooked, or judged incorrectly. I didnt think I would need a wind meter to tell me that the wind is blowing at my firing position from left to right.

    Over the years I have no idea on how many rounds (money) I have spent in making shot corrections that an instrument could have reduced. So maybe it all balances out anyways?
     
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    Do yall carry 1 rifle, 1 box of bullets, and a wheelbarrow full of electronics?


    I carry my rifle, several boxes of bullets, a phone, and a rangefinder. The spotting scope and binos are optional. There zero reason to use a kestrel here because the wind will be different between me and the target.

    Which brings up a point. I have made hits while just searching the grass for movement while my shooting buddies geek out on their kestrels. They miss because the wind changes 3x before the target. They'll hold 2 Mills left, miss 2 Mills left, and spend 20 minutes arguing with their tech. They forgot to account for the crosswind coming from another draw that was cancelling out the wind at our position.
     
    there is a point to be made, but as a certified newb, i am glad i didn't need years of experience.
    i bought a rifle for the possibility we will need them to protect our freedoms, not for sport or fun.

    it just happens to be fun.
     
    Ask these douche-nozzles how that venture turned out for them... Gimmicky as frig!

    1578596305655.png
     
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    I
    41379422-C89F-4FE3-AD38-EE8CCFF65679.jpeg

    ^that would be awesome to have.

    Technology that works is progress.

    Time is valuable.
     
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    A chrono (I use a V3) for load development and a rangefinder have saved me a lot of time and guesswork. Two items in total under $1k, help humble me knowing that misses are 99% my fault. No substitute for reading and trigger time.
     
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    A scope DARPA is working on
    Integrated ballistics program, range finder, wind finder, thermal/nv, anti fratricide system etc.

    Various iliteartions of that have been on the market for number of years now.

     
    No electronic gizmo can replace or make up for a lack of fundamental skills including:

    1. Trigger control.
    2. Sight picture.
    3. Breathing.
    4. Natural point of aim.
    5. Follow through.
    6. Recoil management.
    I'm sure I'm leaving some stuff out.

    I like using a ballistic calculator. But, it doesn't make me a "better shooter." It just does some math for me and gets me in the ballpark. But, it doesn't make the shot for me.
     
    Man Ive been seeing a ton of gadgets and technology appear on this forum that allows pretty much anyone at any experience level make incredible shots, and push boundaries that weren't even conceivable 20yrs ago.
    Ballistic calculators/computers
    Laser rangefinders with LIDAR for windspeed
    Light transmission in day optics
    ETC...


    But does it actually take a little away?
    For me it would take the fun out. I have never been the buy my way to win guy. Shoot vaule priced guns, raced cheap dirt cars, drive used cars. Just how i am. I know i am old cause everything i enjoy is going away and all the young idiots love it.

    Nothing like learning to drive a stick shift and feel so connected to your car, such a part of the mechanics of it, but today the automatic is taken over. In 2020 no fullsized pickup is sold with a manual. Now dirt bikes have a "recluse clutch" read automatic and it is catching on.

    Oh well. I got my manual Jeep, manual truck and the wide open desert to play in and enjoy while i get older. Lol
     
    You start with tech, you become reliant on tech. I shoot precision bolt guns for the man/machine challenge. I personally enjoy the mental strain as much as the physical aspect. Aids are okay for sure, but just know that you will only grow so much using them. How many people can/still range targets in their reticle, do dope with a baseline on paper then SEE the wind anymore? More troubling, how many can hit 800m

    I’ve seen enough batteries fail at the perfectly wrong time to not use them as a crutch any longer. They should be a tool, but only when you can do it manually just as easy. It’s why many here call it a time saver.

    only my opinion, but it’s also why I prefer to bow hunt instead of rifle. I just like making this hard and frustrating my stupid self!
     
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    imho, it is how and why you implement technology, not necessarily when or if you do.

    i bought a rangefinder, but i also use a databook and dope chart.
    i have no spotter and no experience at shooting farther than i can see.

    scenario:
    i use the reticle to estimate range at 600 yards, my dope chart (for 175gr FGMM) says 4.7 mils.
    the range finder tells me 609 yards from my position on the line, and 4.73 mils (for my rifle).
    i take a shot. hit.
    if i miss high or low, i won't know for sure without the RF if i suck at ranging targets, shooting, or both.
    how many shots will i need to convince myself which is the problem?

    i agree learning to range targets is vital for hunting and tactical purposes if you have a suitable reticle.
    on the other hand, a rangefinder or some other method of confirming your ranging skills is invaluable if you're on your own.

    side note. not to be snarky or adversarial, but i must suggest that if you are let down by dead batteries during a match, this is imho not a failure of technology, but a failure in planning and preparation. there is no excuse not to have fresh batteries if you in any way rely on devices that require them.

    - the last boyscout
     
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    My cousin loves black powder. Says it is the true test of a hunter to be at one with nature and your weapon. Takes lots of time to be proficient. He wants me to use a Whitworth to shoot long range because I could then have truly accomplished something. I tried black powder and do not like it. We are both having fun.
     
    My cousin loves black powder. Says it is the true test of a hunter to be at one with nature and your weapon. Takes lots of time to be proficient. He wants me to use a Whitworth to shoot long range because I could then have truly accomplished something. I tried black powder and do not like it. We are both having fun.

    Ya well your cousin is a fud
     
    My cousin loves black powder. Says it is the true test of a hunter to be at one with nature and your weapon. Takes lots of time to be proficient. He wants me to use a Whitworth to shoot long range because I could then have truly accomplished something. I tried black powder and do not like it. We are both having fun.


    Sure, but why stop at blackpowder when there are so many rocks laying around.
     
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    Tell your cousin that a stick with a sharp point was around long before black powder.
    Then they figured out how to launch them with another stick with a string.
    My cousin loves black powder. Says it is the true test of a hunter to be at one with nature and your weapon. Takes lots of time to be proficient. He wants me to use a Whitworth to shoot long range because I could then have truly accomplished something. I tried black powder and do not like it. We are both having fun.
     
    Tell your cousin that a stick with a sharp point was around long before black powder.
    Then they figured out how to launch them with another stick with a string.
    I bought a Whitworth last summer and have been doing casting and patching this winter. In the spring... it's going to get unleashed!

    The Confederates made great use of them.

    You can do things with a Jos. Whitworth that you can do with an AI!

    Give it a shot!

    Cheers,

    Sirhr
     
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    I was replying to the "the true test of a hunter" in his post.
    Years ago I put away my hunting rifles for a couple personal reasons. I went to the black powder and not long after the went to the back of the closet. I seriously enjoyed the smells and the anticipation after the smoke cleared but it's a stick and a string for me when it comes to hunting. If they ever allow Spears and I am able. I will be chucking one.
    I bought a Whitworth last summer and have been doing casting and patching this winter. In the spring... it's going to get unleashed!

    The Confederates made great use of them.

    You can do things with a Jos. Whitworth that you can do with an AI!

    Give it a shot!

    Cheers,

    Sirhr
    I am not anti anything when it comes to hunting. Do what you enjoy.
     
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