Which action for an upcoming build and why. I have narrowed it down between the ARC nucleus and defiance tenacity specifically and they are fairly different so I’m looking for opinions, pros and cons etc on these two options. Trying to get pushed one way or the other as I’m very torn right now.
- Thread starter Altoonabcm157
- Start date
Tenacity, it’s not even close.
I have never touched a Defiance, but I love my Nuke. Controlled round feeding and a mechanical ejector are things I would not want to give up. The swappable bolt head is a nice bonus. I also personally like the nitrided steel over SS for my actions. But the Tenacity does cost less and has an integral recoil lug.
They are both great platforms and you really can't go wrong with either...
They are both great platforms and you really can't go wrong with either...
I had both Deviant and a Nuke. Sold the Deviant and the Nuke is running strong w/ no complaints - 4 different cartridges, couple different bolt heads. All sunshine and roses.
I’ve handled a deviant, never a tenacity though. I’ve also never handled an ARC action which is what’s making it tough for me to finalize my decision, the integral lug is nice but not a huge deal to me. I like a lot of the features and engineering that went into the ARC actions just hard to judge how they feel since I never got my hands on one. I would expect the feel of the tenacity to be similar to their other actions but lack a reference point with the ARC.
Get both and sell the one you don't like.
I drink the ARC coolaid myself.
I drink the ARC coolaid myself.
I have both the Nuke in 6creedmoor and a Tenacity in 6Gt. I like both but they are very different. The nuke is faster, shorter bolt throw, mechanical ejector and CRF are flawless, I don't like the rotary bolt catch. The Tenacity is significantly smoother bolt lift and slide and feeds perfectly, also prefer the integral recoil lug. You should really see if you can feel both before making a choice as they are so different.
I recently have had the joy of playing with the Defiance family Badrock rifle. It has an action similar to the Tenacity but with a mechanical ejector and CRF. Only available as a complete rifle or barreled action otherwise it would likely be my top choice.
I recently have had the joy of playing with the Defiance family Badrock rifle. It has an action similar to the Tenacity but with a mechanical ejector and CRF. Only available as a complete rifle or barreled action otherwise it would likely be my top choice.
If you talk to a gunsmith that has cut barrels for both, id wager to say they would ask u to pick the nuke. Better tolerance for cutting barrels. I have a nuke and love it but im sure the tenacity is a great action too.
Kinda depends on what features you like. The Nuc is interesting in design, the tenacity is kinda of standard in design, with a lot of refinement. Regarding what @BLKWLFK9 said, they didnt used to have a tight tolerances for headspace. They’ve fixed that now, and unified the tenons across the whole line of standard actions. So a Ruckus Prefit for example will screw into a deviant, tenacity, or Anti. The tenacity is the lowest price point that will get you an integral lug as well.
From what I was told by a very reputable Smith, they say they fixed the HS to be within a tight tolerance but they still aren't, and the tenacity was the action specifically mentioned for having incorrect HS measurements. The rukus was the only one that I recall being mentioned by Defiance to hold prefit capable tolerancea.
The nucleus is great and versatile. Not familiar with the Tenacity. I like all the features of the Nucleus and the Gen2 made the bolt release nicer. The only downside to the Nucleus is that it is mag fed only. Only a problem for hunting style rifles
Not trying to be argumentative, but manufacture date of the Tenacity COULD play a factor. Defiance has used that name for quite a long time, but only recently guaranteed headspace, although, I think the change does coincide with the integral recoil lug, from memory anyway.
I single round feed my Nuke more than I mag feed it, on the order of about 100 to 1.
Frankly I have been leaning towards the ARC over the tenacity. It seems to be something that really is unique and I’m sure the tenacity is great but to me it’s just a very refined 700. I plan to at least try to get my hands on a nucleus to feel the action but I may just have to order blindly.
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The bolts are made on the same machine as the ruckus. Thats too bad if they aren't. Im gonna call them again. Lol
FWIW, the rotary bolt release is no more. I personally love it, but obviously im in the minority since that design didnt stick
I have a nuke and Defiance (not sure which one as it was a defiance-gunsmith unique run of actions). The Defiance is a piece of art imo, but does not like any dirt whatsoever. The clearance on the bolt race/bolt is so tight that minimal amounts of dirt just bind it up. It does feel amazing when it's cleaned and lubed with no slop at all though. In short, I prefer the Defiance at the clean range with a nice enclosed bench area and a calm day and the whole place to myself.
There's something about the rhythm when I run the nucleus fast and hard, that just induces a stupid grin on my face. It has become one of my favorites in a sneaky fashion as it broke in. It has also survived a few stupid dirty ass matches with moon dust, rain, mud, grit, etc. and never missed a beat. This one is the rifle I take to comps or coyote hunting etc.
There's something about the rhythm when I run the nucleus fast and hard, that just induces a stupid grin on my face. It has become one of my favorites in a sneaky fashion as it broke in. It has also survived a few stupid dirty ass matches with moon dust, rain, mud, grit, etc. and never missed a beat. This one is the rifle I take to comps or coyote hunting etc.
I single feed long 7 saum a lot into my nucleus.
I like the light switch bolt release.
Bomb proof.
The long action nucleus still has it I believe.
I like the light switch bolt release.
Bomb proof.
Seems like more pushing for the nucleus then the defiance, being that the bolt on the nucleus was designed with more clearance between the bolt body and raceway would you still say that it is difficult to bind and doesn’t feel “sloppy” for lack of a better description. I had read that the difference in size between the raceway and bolt body is 10 thousandths and that’s not exactly tight so very curious about how that feels on a 1000 dollar action.
Had a defiance tenacity for about a year and sold it to buy a nucleus. Main reason most of the top smiths took down the tenacity as a prefit option then they fixed it. So got the nuke and still have alot of smiths that say they wont do a shoulder prefit but by far the nuke is the better action hands down. Smooth easy to work on controlled round feed manuel ejector and you can take it all apart swap bolt heads. Only complaint which is nick picking is i have to take out ejector to put my action wrench in but only takes 5 seconds. The tenacity is a rem 700 thats fixed up
+1 on the Nuke.
The bolt does feel a little sloppy when back but whatever. Its still smooth going forward and has never binded on me.
Only issue I have is going too light on the eject will drop a case in the action.
Wtf is a rotary bolt catch?
The bolt does feel a little sloppy when back but whatever. Its still smooth going forward and has never binded on me.
Only issue I have is going too light on the eject will drop a case in the action.
Wtf is a rotary bolt catch?
I think they mean the bolt release that you have to turn a bit
Agreed w this, and I'd add that you can run the nuke hard n fast, and there is some perpendicular to the bore movement at full open, but as long as some of the force to run the bolt home is fwd, it has no binding at all.
It is mildly irritating that my brass flies fwd with the crf, but not a deal breaker by any means
I could be wrong but it seems like most of your controlled round feed mausers Springfield enfield win model 70 ect have that play in the back. I know mauser designed that specific for the actions not binding or getting jammed or freezing. But i could be wrong
Yes, and the Nuc addresses all the sloppy with a larger diameter portion at the rear of the bolt body, near the handle. By the time youre all the way forward, the clearances have tightened up.
I say the nuke is one of the best designs made period. I love mausers and its like a modern version and better
I dont get why the Archimedes is $400 more. Does it cost more to make or are we just paying for something different? Its basically a Nucleus with a different bolt and I would think not having to weld the handle on would save a step. Plus the Arch still has the PITA bolt stop that my gen 1 Nuke has.
More moving parts on the Archimedes - plus integral lug (I'd guess material costs and machine time factor heavily into the premium)
The self locking taper of the action/rail is a very tightly toleranced fit in order to make it work thr way it does. That’s not the whole $400, but that’s part of it.
I have a Gen 1 Nucleus and I’m looking at picking up an Archimedes as well. Hoping to eventually have two rifles that take the same barrels.
Yes.
Well doesn’t sound like there’s much of an argument for the tenacity. Pushed me enough to settle on the nucleus. Time to place an order.
I recently sent off 2 new nitrided Tenacity actions to Keystone Accuracy. He said they measured exactly same and were right inline with the manufacturer prints.
I like the integral lug on the newer Tenacity and plan to use Rukus prefits in the future, they headspace the same as the integral lug Tenacity. See: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/defiance-ruckus.6977162/page-2#post-8207125
As a side note, Keystone's work is amazing. These guns are lasers. I'll have a post on John's work in the near future, it's great.
I like the integral lug on the newer Tenacity and plan to use Rukus prefits in the future, they headspace the same as the integral lug Tenacity. See: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/defiance-ruckus.6977162/page-2#post-8207125
As a side note, Keystone's work is amazing. These guns are lasers. I'll have a post on John's work in the near future, it's great.
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Yep
That shoulder at the back keeps everything lined up well when closed without being sensitive to dirt/grit.
I have cut barrels for 3 integral lug Tenacity's, 1 for myself and 2 for friends. All 3 were within a couple ten-thousands of each other and the barrels will headspace perfect interchanging any of the 3 barrels on any of the 3 actions. I personally would still prefer having an action in my hands to measure and test for proper headspace to check my work when I am done. A big shop with a CNC should have no problem cutting a Tenacity barrel from a tenon print.
Im sure the tenacity is a nice action for being a custom 700 clone but its just that. more people here have tried the "something different" action and liked it.
The bighorn Origin would have been a better comparison.
I would like to hear from your “reputable gunsmith” about this false rumor concerning head space dimensions.
The original Tenacity actions were made with a pinned recoil lug, which was purchased from an outside vendor. Defiance did not make any claims on dimensions that effect head space on these actions. We made the change to an integral recoil lug to remove the tolerance stack of having three parts, which all the integral lug Tenacity actions have been machined to the same dimensional tolerance since then. The Tenacity, Ruckus, anTi and anTi-X actions all share the same critical dimensions for head space. All parts are fully inspected at each operation and every step of assembly is inspected at three different stages, this is our process to insure this tolerance. There was never a “problem” to fix, so we continue to produce each action this way.
Defiance produced over 2500 of these four models in 2020 that meet the +/- .001 guarantee. We have had a handful of actions returned based on this false rumor and found that they were, in fact, within spec. We have also spent some time helping to educate the proper use of inspection tools.
I invite anyone that has any questions about what Defiance makes to contact us directly.
Thank you, - Glen
The origin didn’t really interest me which is why I didn’t mention it. I’ve had a custom rifle that was just a clone of a 700 that was greatly improved so I have experience with that general route I was just looking for people take on a different design that interested me. The thread has been helpful to me.
Yeah but to me it takes the best of each and puts it in the cheapest package to boot. I wouldn't discount it just because it may seem a bit plain.
Just saying there's more Nuke fans here than Tenacity fans so thats the direction the reccomendations go. Nuke has more of a cult following.
Im curious why you didnt consider the Origin?
CRF, mechanical ejector and replaceable bolt heads puts the Origin in the same boat as nuke and I bet they have a similar fan base.
Nuke and Origin were my two final choices when I was at that crossroad.
The big reason was that I could find very little technical information about the reasons behind the design. The tenacity is simple to figure out as it’s basically a rem 700 that’s had a lot more attention paid to it. The origin was interesting to me but when I reached out to zermatt I didn’t get in depth answer on why they made certain design choices. The folks from ARC can be long winded for some but they are not holding back why they did things a certain way and why they think that’s superior. Maybe others had a different experience but zermatt didn’t feel the need to explain why they think a sliding plate extractor was the right choice or if the bolt stop pin gets loaded or the stop itself if a bolt is slammed into it. Could be the better choice for all I know but they didn’t seem interested in sharing much time with me so I moved on early on in my search. Not knocking them just what I came across in my sample size of 1.
I agree the features look really good especially for the price, I crossed the origin off the list when I reached out to zermatt. Customer service was very nice but just didn’t get into the weeds about some things I was hoping for.
