Tennessee DNR Spies on You and Your Property

[VA-Varminter]

https://www.agweb.com/article/government-cameras-hidden-private-property-welcome-open-fields

Government Cameras Hidden on Private Property? Welcome to Open Fields

by Chris Bennett
07:52AM Aug 10, 2020

Hunter Hollingsworth’s story contains alarming claims regarding the behavior of government officials and raises a bevy of questions over Open Fields, states’ rights, and the sanctity of private property.
( Photo courtesy of Institute for Justice )

Seated at his kitchen table, finishing off the remains of a Saturday breakfast, Hunter Hollingsworth’s world was rocked by footsteps on his front porch and pounding at the door, punctuated by an aggressive order: “Open up or we’ll kick the door down.”
Surrounded on all sides of his house, and the driveway blocked, Hollingsworth was the target of approximately 10 federal and state wildlife officials packing pistols, shotguns and rifles. And what was Hollingsworth’s crime? Drugs, armed robbery, assault, money laundering? Not quite.
Months prior, in 2018, the Tennessee landowner removed a game camera secretly strapped to a tree on his private land by wildlife officials in order to monitor his activity without apparent sanction or probable cause. Repeat: Hollingsworth’s residence was searched by U.S. government and state officials, dressed to the nines in assault gear, seeking to regain possession of a trail camera—the precise camera they had surreptitiously placed on his private acreage after sneaking onto his property at night, loading the camera with active SD and SIM cards, and zip-tying the device roughly 10’ high up a tree—all without a warrant.
Can the government place cameras and monitoring equipment on a private citizen’s land at will, or conduct surveillance and stakeouts on private land, without probable cause or a search warrant? Indeed, according to the U.S. Supreme Court’s (SCOTUS) interpretation of the Fourth Amendment. Welcome to Open Fields.
The vast majority of Americans assume law enforcement needs a warrant to carry out surveillance, but for roughly a century, SCOTUS has ruled that private land—is not private. Fourth Amendment protections against “unreasonable searches and seizures” expressed in the Bill of Rights only apply to an individual’s immediate dwelling area, according to SCOTUS.


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[oneshot86]

and they wonder why there are problems

 

[308pirate]

Cameras you didn't install make great targets.

 

[candyx]

Seems like those cameras would be very susceptible damaged during hunting season with misplaced shots or during target practice with those damn flyers that ruin a good groups.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

What part of "No Trespassing" is being missed or confusing here?

 

[Bwhntr53]

 

[Bwhntr53]

Seems like those cameras would be very susceptible damaged during hunting season with misplaced shots or during target practice with those damn flyers that ruin a good groups.

Really does make sense. But if they recovered the bullet from the tree they attached the camera to they would seize all of your guns and use their lab to match your bullet and gun. Then come arrest you for destroying government property. Of course now if you have bears in your neighborhood woods they love to chew on game cameras.

 

[candyx]

Really does make sense. But if they recovered the bullet from the tree they attached the camera to they would seize all of your guns and use their lab to match your bullet and gun. Then come arrest you for destroying government property. Of course now if you have bears in your neighborhood woods they love to chew on game cameras.View attachment 7399279

You can alway ask to borrow you buddies rifle..........

 

[Rocketvapor]

They can place cameras on your street and watch your front door. Record cars coming and going.
Moving back to somewhere on your property to record doesn't seem any worse.
Not right, but not surprising. Try and steal a street camera. Or shoot a P.I. with a camera trying to catch you cheating on your wife.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Take the camera and drop it off at the nearest strip club.
Gay strip club, that is.

 

[candyx]

You can riot,loot and kill today without really worrying about getting in any legal trouble at all. Now they set cameras up on your farm to watch if you shoot game most likely for FOOD for your family and bring in a swat team to kick your door in and mostly likely shoot you if you remotely act in anyway but how they want you to act. WTF is wrong with our Nation that this has become acceptable way of life ......

 

[Rocketvapor]

How many times has "Open Fields" come before the courts?
State, Local, Feds will continue to test the system and unless the citizen has a great defense team, they will probably be out of some of their free time.

 

[sea2summit]

Why not fill the SD card with images they might not enjoy sorting through?

 

[deersniper]

You can riot,loot and kill today without really worrying about getting in any legal trouble at all. Now they set cameras up on your farm to watch if you shoot game most likely for FOOD for your family and bring in a swat team to kick your door in and mostly likely shoot you if you remotely act in anyway but how they want you to act. WTF is wrong with our Nation that this has become acceptable way of life ......

And worse than that we have boot lickers and boot wearers on a gun site that will try and justify coming in private property and putting up a camera without a warrant.

Then they will also justify a swat raid on a landowner that took down a random game camera that was in his property with no way to know it came from a .gov tyrant.

Idiocracy mixed with 1984 is our current world

 

[Bwhntr53]

You can riot,loot and kill today without really worrying about getting in any legal trouble at all. Now they set cameras up on your farm to watch if you shoot game most likely for FOOD for your family and bring in a swat team to kick your door in and mostly likely shoot you if you remotely act in anyway but how they want you to act. WTF is wrong with our Nation that this has become acceptable way of life ......

Believe it or not I believe that some online games especially those like this have caused the idiots playing the online games to make it a reality in their idiotic minds.

 

[deersniper]

How many times has "Open Fields" come before the courts?
State, Local, Feds will continue to test the system and unless the citizen has a great defense team, they will probably be out of some of their free time.

Eventually they will piss on some judges or other oligharchy members friend or family and this crap will be shut down somewhat.

Or maybe it will take some nut with a killdozer or worse before they decide the juice isn’t worth the squeeze.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Leave the camera on the tree.
Sell same tree as pulp wood.
Tree gone, camera gone

Steal a government camera with a "SIM CARD" ?
and not expect a response?
Hasn't this Open Field argument been going on for over a 100 years?
Obama started it.


Fight technology with technology.
LED flasher. Motion detect trigger. One flash per second.
Not for damage, just a warning with a sign
"Caution, 24hr Video surveillance"

 

[deersniper]

Leave the camera on the tree.
Sell same tree as pulp wood.
Tree gone, camera gone

Steal a government camera with a "SIM CARD" ?
and not expect a response?
Hasn't this Open Field argument been going on for over a 100 years?
Obama started it.

How are you supposed to know it is a .gov camera that some scum bag planted there?

 

[Rocketvapor]

Was the camera labeled? If not scum bag defense should work.

 

[BytorJr]

Or, maybe you suddenly decide right in front of the camera is a good place for a blind, a fence or some other structure.

 

[TheHorta]

5-watt 1550nm laser.

Problem solved. Zero evidence.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Or a kiddy pool for your kids.
.gov peeping on your kids sounds like a crime to me.

Many state cases have tossed out evidence collected with warrantless searches, yet they still try Open Fields as justification.
You would think a hundred years or so we could have fixed this. Just like asset forfeiture.

 

[Rocketvapor]

5-watt 1550nm laser.

Problem solved. Zero evidence.

Evidence is already in the CLOUD, it was a wireless cell gamecam.

The FIX for this won't FIX anything.
The authorities will get an "anonymous" tip about some trumped up crime, get a warrant to place the camera.
If 'they' can't sneak around and put up the cameras, getting a warrant is just a hoop to jump through.
Big Hoop: No Knock Warrant, Smaller Hoop: Cellphone game cam.

 

[deersniper]

Evidence is already in the CLOUD, it was a wireless cell gamecam.

Masks are a thing

 

[TheHorta]

Evidence is already in the CLOUD, it was a wireless cell gamecam.

Not from 300 yards away it isn’t. The whole point of a high power invisible wavelength laser is to use it as a standoff tool to defeat the surreptitiously planted cameras from beyond detection range.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Did you see the camera first? Or did 'They' see you yesterday?
The guy that took the camera and they came gunning for it would have been better off fighting this in court without taking, or damaging the camera. IF it had been placed under warrant, he would lose, and pay for the camera.
How do you know?
The whole issue here is the trespassing to place the camera in the first place. That is wrong. Legal? But still wrong.
Shooting down drones, Helicopters, damaging surveillance equipment sounds like fun, but will likely end up in court.
Only The German can afford good defense lawyers and not blink an eye. Most of us had better hope some pro-bono organization takes up our case.

Has this case made it to court yet? Seems it started in 2017/2018 and is in the news again in 2020.
I like the idea that Hunter doesn't feel secure on his own property because the government trespassed and placed a camera on his property. Me? I would feel less secure about swat showing up bashing down the door looking for their $200 camera.

 

[Alphatreedog]

I se ond the if it wasn't labeled fuck off . You didn't identify and fuck you that's why .

 

[BullGear]

A nice placed 12 ga slug would probably take care of any problems you might have.

 

[Bwhntr53]

Leave the camera on the tree.
Sell same tree as pulp wood.
Tree gone, camera gone

Steal a government camera with a "SIM CARD" ?
and not expect a response?
Hasn't this Open Field argument been going on for over a 100 years?
Obama started it.


Fight technology with technology.
LED flasher. Motion detect trigger. One flash per second.
Not for damage, just a warning with a sign
"Caution, 24hr Video surveillance"

Or cut the tree down for firewood. Camera hits the ground. Smash.

 

[VA-Varminter]

The larger concern in my mind is the reaction - the tactical raid with a warrant. Correct me if I am wrong, but warrants may state what they're looking for, but anything else they may find and seize is on the table as well. That could be anything from a 20 round mag in a 10 round state to them just grabbing all of your guns to run checks on them and you falling into the Eddie O abyss.

 

[Bwhntr53]

The larger concern in my mind is the reaction - the tactical raid with a warrant. Correct me if I am wrong, but warrants may state what they're looking for, but anything else they may find and seize is on the table as well. That could be anything from a 20 round mag in a 10 round state to them just grabbing all of your guns to run checks on them and you falling into the Eddie O abyss.

You hit the nail on the head with the hammer on this one. Anything whether in plain sight or discovered can be taken. Including yourself. If you have anything in your possession, home, car, etc. that is stated as illegal in your State. Even if it is not yours if you are in possession of it.

 

[deersniper]

Gotta get them states rights secessionists
Gotta fight the depression
Gotta get them moonshiners
Gotta get them commies
Gotta get them japs
Gotta get them child molesters
Gotta get them dopers
Gotta get them right wingers
Gotta get them terrorists
Gotta get them poachers


Always another war on this or war on that. And idiots willingly giving over more freedom and treasure to fight the villain of the week.

We will just take this constitutional protection away to get x criminal. Guess what they use it against everyone after that.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Which states DO NOT follow the 1924 Supreme Court Decision about Open Fields?
This from a legal site but doesn't identify which states provide privacy protection to property owners;
"Some states reject open field doctrine and confirm protection under state law of privately owned open lands from warrantless searches and seizures"

OK, which states? Blue states or Red states?

Let's say the tree just fell down, or was struck by lightning and the gov lost signal from their camera.
Or, maybe some scumbag found the camera while trespassing and took it, replace the sim card and used the 'Free Camera'?
You get swatted because they think you took the camera.
Can your next of kin sue the gov?

 

[DuneBoer]

Sloppy Poachers get fucked with. Don't be sloppy.

 

[Jgunner]

Which states DO NOT follow the 1924 Supreme Court Decision about Open Fields?
This from a legal site but doesn't identify which states provide privacy protection to property owners;
"Some states reject open field doctrine and confirm protection under state law of privately owned open lands from warrantless searches and seizures"

OK, which states? Blue states or Red states?

Let's say the tree just fell down, or was struck by lightning and the gov lost signal from their camera.
Or, maybe some scumbag found the camera while trespassing and took it, replace the sim card and used the 'Free Camera'?
You get swatted because they think you took the camera.
Can your next of kin sue the gov?

Its a sim card, not an sd. So it sends pics or videos to their email, so you walk up to it, its taking pics of the perp and sending them via cell signal.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Right. Walk up out of view, take camera, take their SIM card out, put yours in. Free camera.
Maybe the camera has password protection.
You can buy them at most big box sporting goods stores. I have ones with local storage only.
Still, we don't know if the camera had a .gov label or not.

What I don't get is (a couple years have past) is the guy took the camera, and a couple months later they swat his house.
Wouldn't a phone call have worked? Hey, Hunter, you got our camera. Can we come and get it?
OR, why not report the camera when you found it?

 

[DuneBoer]

Usually these cameras are set in pairs or threes. All set to watch a target and the other cameras. Once they have taken a picture its gone to an email account. They have you. Its simple to keep them from knowing who you are. There are ways to find the others if you know a few simple tricks. If they set just one, it shows their lack of training and experience.

 

[Rocketvapor]

I wonder if there is more to the story that just fighting the legality of placing the camera?
If he wins that battle then maybe anything 'they' found will be tossed out.

 

[308pirate]

Its simple to keep them from knowing who you are.

It's cold out

 

[Rocketvapor]

No need for hunter orange out of season

 

[chevy_man]

I would have pulled the SD cards and pawned them. Would have been a funny goose chase for them.


When confronted, all you have to do is claim you thought they were ones you had up, since they had no marking.

 

[TheHorta]

I would have pulled the SD cards and pawned them. Would have been a funny goose chase for them.

When confronted, all you have to do is claim you thought they were ones you had up, since they had no marking.

They don’t have SD cards.

 

[Rocketvapor]

I think they have BOTH.

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We are assuming they did not have a Tennessee DWF label with a property number.

 

[chevy_man]

They don’t have SD cards.

They may upload to the cloud, but they still have SD. I'd only pull them so whatever tweaker buys them won't have all the pictures.

 

[Rocketvapor]

The issue is the legality of trespass and surveillance, without a warrant.
It's OK in some states, not OK in others. If a federal crime, then the state probably won't matter.
You can steal, shoot, paint, burn, hide the camera in your barn if you want but you should probably expect someone to come asking for their camera.
If a scumbag placed the camera, that's definitely against the law, so report it.
If the camera has government identification, or you suspect it's government property, report it.
Try not to do anything illegal within view of the camera until they come to pick it up
If it's too late for that, oh well, they got ya, fight the trespass to get it thrown out.

From the article " Hollingsworth was the target of approximately 10 federal and state wildlife officials packing pistols, shotguns and rifles " Using state wildlife officials in the raid will probably keep the court case at the state level. Better chance of having evidence (if any) tossed out. Could have been the result of neighbors thinking target practice was out of season hunting and dropping a dime on him. The game guys got all wet and placed the camera to catch a poacher.

I'll answer my own question. The states that WON'T help the feds with Open Field surveillance are BLUE states.
Go figure.

 

[Mr.BR]

How many times has "Open Fields" come before the courts?
State, Local, Feds will continue to test the system and unless the citizen has a great defense team, they will probably be out of some of their free time.

Citizen bends over takes in the ass and then cheerleads 'patriotic' governmental overreach, since 9/11 you cheered this on every step of the way. Have jet to see any real pushback.

 

[MtnCreek]

Usually these cameras are set in pairs or threes. All set to watch a target and the other cameras. Once they have taken a picture its gone to an email account. They have you. Its simple to keep them from knowing who you are. There are ways to find the others if you know a few simple tricks. If they set just one, it shows their lack of training and experience.

Easy to find at night.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Since 9/11??? This crap started with prohibition. The Supreme Court sided with the Revenuers back in the 20's. It's not the Patriot Act that's behind this. Only a handful of Blue States won't follow the Open Fields doctrine.

and easy to find at night? When the PASSIVE IR sensor sees you first and snaps your pic?
You just be wondering around your property, and surprise, you get your picture taken, maybe doing something you shouldn't be doing?

and still no info on camera ID or not, or why they picked Hollingsworth, and why this is two years old and no court results.
Sounds like some info is being withheld, on purpose, to me.

 

[ForgeValley]

Anyone have any experience with cellular transmission sniffers?

 

[j-huskey]

So.... DNR puts unmarked camera on your property. And u dont know who did it.
A. If unlocked, turn off, and put your own camera out to ID installer.
B. If locked, black trash bag over camera, put your own out to ID installer.
C. Once installer is identified, the appropriate action is taken.

Anything else is wrong.

So, DNR puts a marked camera on your property and you locate it.
C. Appropriate action is taken.

None of the suggestions in this topic are truly appropriate.

A smarter camera locator NEVER publicizes the actions that may be appropriate on a internet board.

As RV states above, there is too much unsaid.
However, the articles on this indicate to this landowner, that the alleged game violator is one dumb ass individual.
Again, further discussion on a internet board is inappropriate.

However, an angry landowner and a couple of buddies can make life miserable.