Can someone define terminal effectiveness? For instance what makes one caliber better suited for a task or a type of game. Can increasing velocity alone make a bullet that much better suited for hunting larger game or do other things cone into play like BC or weight? Example: is there a gain in terminal effectiveness from 308 to 300 win mag or does just extend the range of the round?
Hunting & Fishing Terminal Effectiveness
- Thread starter msp21
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Re: Terminal Effectiveness
There are a lot of things that come into play. Bullet design is a big factor for terminal effectiveness. Something with a ballistic tip and a high velocity usually does a lot of damage on thin skinned game but does not retain enough weight on Cape Buffalo or something of that nature where usually you are using a big heavy solid bullet that has some expansion but has more penetrating power.
Depending on what animal you are hunting you can usually change velocity and bullet type to get the job done. A 300 win mag will have more terminal effectiveness than a .308 but that is because you can push a heavier bullet faster than a .308 because of the added case capacity.
I hope this helps.
There are a lot of things that come into play. Bullet design is a big factor for terminal effectiveness. Something with a ballistic tip and a high velocity usually does a lot of damage on thin skinned game but does not retain enough weight on Cape Buffalo or something of that nature where usually you are using a big heavy solid bullet that has some expansion but has more penetrating power.
Depending on what animal you are hunting you can usually change velocity and bullet type to get the job done. A 300 win mag will have more terminal effectiveness than a .308 but that is because you can push a heavier bullet faster than a .308 because of the added case capacity.
I hope this helps.
Re: Terminal Effectiveness
.308 is more than enough for moose
.308 is more than enough for moose
Re: Terminal Effectiveness
At moderate ranges and with a quality bullet placed in the heart/lungs, I would definitely say that 308 is enough for moose.
At moderate ranges and with a quality bullet placed in the heart/lungs, I would definitely say that 308 is enough for moose.
Re: Terminal Effectiveness
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: msp21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When would you start to feel under gunned with a 308? </div></div>
About the third shot on a mad grizzly, or the second shot on a two legged varmint.
I personally don't think .308 is enough gun for animals larger than deer. It's not poweful enough to punch a hole all the way through an elk, moose, large black bear, large boar or grizzly. You could certainly inflict a fatal wound, but the critter mat not die as quickly as you might desire. I prefer to make exit wounds because they bleed a lot more than entry wounds making death quicker and tracking easier.
I hunt primarily with a Sendero in .300 Win Mag using 180gr Nosler Partition PPT pushed by 78.5 grains of IMR-7828. The only critter I have shot that didn't have an exit wound was my last bull elk, he was huge and took two solid hits one in the shoulder and one in the ribs at 40 yards but no exit wound from either hit. He went down and got back up after both hits and managed to go another 50 yards before piling up.
When I am hunting where there are a lot of grizzlies I carry a 700SS in .375 H&H using 300 grain Woodleigh bullets.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: msp21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When would you start to feel under gunned with a 308? </div></div>
About the third shot on a mad grizzly, or the second shot on a two legged varmint.
I personally don't think .308 is enough gun for animals larger than deer. It's not poweful enough to punch a hole all the way through an elk, moose, large black bear, large boar or grizzly. You could certainly inflict a fatal wound, but the critter mat not die as quickly as you might desire. I prefer to make exit wounds because they bleed a lot more than entry wounds making death quicker and tracking easier.
I hunt primarily with a Sendero in .300 Win Mag using 180gr Nosler Partition PPT pushed by 78.5 grains of IMR-7828. The only critter I have shot that didn't have an exit wound was my last bull elk, he was huge and took two solid hits one in the shoulder and one in the ribs at 40 yards but no exit wound from either hit. He went down and got back up after both hits and managed to go another 50 yards before piling up.
When I am hunting where there are a lot of grizzlies I carry a 700SS in .375 H&H using 300 grain Woodleigh bullets.
Re: Terminal Effectiveness
A .308 is plenty of gun for elk and moose, I've personally blown right through an elk at 500+ yards. It depends on the load the bullets and one part unknown. Bullets do crazy things for who knows why.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 168bthpm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hunt primarily with a Sendero in .300 Win Mag using 180gr Nosler Partition PPT pushed by 78.5 grains of IMR-7828. The only critter I have shot that didn't have an exit wound was my last bull elk, he was huge and took two solid hits one in the shoulder and one in the ribs at 40 yards but no exit wound from either hit.</div></div>
Sounds like your bullet blew up, my 300wsm does the same thing anywhere less that 100 yds. I fail to see what that has to do with the potency of the .308, untold thousands of elk have been harvested with .308's, .270's, and the like. My first elk fell DRFT from a well placed shot out of my 25-06. PGS, a very well know gentleman here seems to have killed 37 of every living thing on this planet using his GAP built .308 shooting 155 scenars. The proof is in the pudding.
A .308 is plenty of gun for elk and moose, I've personally blown right through an elk at 500+ yards. It depends on the load the bullets and one part unknown. Bullets do crazy things for who knows why.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 168bthpm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hunt primarily with a Sendero in .300 Win Mag using 180gr Nosler Partition PPT pushed by 78.5 grains of IMR-7828. The only critter I have shot that didn't have an exit wound was my last bull elk, he was huge and took two solid hits one in the shoulder and one in the ribs at 40 yards but no exit wound from either hit.</div></div>
Sounds like your bullet blew up, my 300wsm does the same thing anywhere less that 100 yds. I fail to see what that has to do with the potency of the .308, untold thousands of elk have been harvested with .308's, .270's, and the like. My first elk fell DRFT from a well placed shot out of my 25-06. PGS, a very well know gentleman here seems to have killed 37 of every living thing on this planet using his GAP built .308 shooting 155 scenars. The proof is in the pudding.
Re: Terminal Effectiveness
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A .308 is plenty of gun for elk and moose, I've personally blown right through an elk at 500+ yards. It depends on the load the bullets and one part unknown. Bullets do crazy things for who knows why.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 168bthpm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hunt primarily with a Sendero in .300 Win Mag using 180gr Nosler Partition PPT pushed by 78.5 grains of IMR-7828. The only critter I have shot that didn't have an exit wound was my last bull elk, he was huge and took two solid hits one in the shoulder and one in the ribs at 40 yards but no exit wound from either hit.</div></div>
Sounds like your bullet blew up, my 300wsm does the same thing anywhere less that 100 yds. I fail to see what that has to do with the potency of the .308, untold thousands of elk have been harvested with .308's, .270's, and the like. My first elk fell DRFT from a well placed shot out of my 25-06. PGS, a very well know gentleman here seems to have killed 37 of every living thing on this planet using his GAP built .308 shooting 155 scenars. The proof is in the pudding. </div></div>
Partitions don't blow up, I recovered both bullets nearly intact, the shoulder shot was just under the opposite shoudler blade, the rib shot was just under the skin on the opposite side.
I didn't say you couldn't kill an elk with a .308, I said I personally don't think it is an adaquate caliber, especially when so many other better calibers are available. I like the .308 caliber and own several but I don't hunt anything larger than deer with them. I have hunted elk all up and down the Rocky Mountain front range and north of Yellowstone and don't know anyone that hunts elk with a .308, a few old timers still hunt with .270 and .30-06. The one thing you never hear about from the guys that hunt with sub-par calibers is how many animals they wound or never find, primarily because of no blood trail due to no exit wound.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A .308 is plenty of gun for elk and moose, I've personally blown right through an elk at 500+ yards. It depends on the load the bullets and one part unknown. Bullets do crazy things for who knows why.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 168bthpm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hunt primarily with a Sendero in .300 Win Mag using 180gr Nosler Partition PPT pushed by 78.5 grains of IMR-7828. The only critter I have shot that didn't have an exit wound was my last bull elk, he was huge and took two solid hits one in the shoulder and one in the ribs at 40 yards but no exit wound from either hit.</div></div>
Sounds like your bullet blew up, my 300wsm does the same thing anywhere less that 100 yds. I fail to see what that has to do with the potency of the .308, untold thousands of elk have been harvested with .308's, .270's, and the like. My first elk fell DRFT from a well placed shot out of my 25-06. PGS, a very well know gentleman here seems to have killed 37 of every living thing on this planet using his GAP built .308 shooting 155 scenars. The proof is in the pudding. </div></div>
Partitions don't blow up, I recovered both bullets nearly intact, the shoulder shot was just under the opposite shoudler blade, the rib shot was just under the skin on the opposite side.
I didn't say you couldn't kill an elk with a .308, I said I personally don't think it is an adaquate caliber, especially when so many other better calibers are available. I like the .308 caliber and own several but I don't hunt anything larger than deer with them. I have hunted elk all up and down the Rocky Mountain front range and north of Yellowstone and don't know anyone that hunts elk with a .308, a few old timers still hunt with .270 and .30-06. The one thing you never hear about from the guys that hunt with sub-par calibers is how many animals they wound or never find, primarily because of no blood trail due to no exit wound.
Re: Terminal Effectiveness
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 168BTHPM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A .308 is plenty of gun for elk and moose, I've personally blown right through an elk at 500+ yards. It depends on the load the bullets and one part unknown. Bullets do crazy things for who knows why.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 168bthpm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hunt primarily with a Sendero in .300 Win Mag using 180gr Nosler Partition PPT pushed by 78.5 grains of IMR-7828. The only critter I have shot that didn't have an exit wound was my last bull elk, he was huge and took two solid hits one in the shoulder and one in the ribs at 40 yards but no exit wound from either hit.</div></div>
Sounds like your bullet blew up, my 300wsm does the same thing anywhere less that 100 yds. I fail to see what that has to do with the potency of the .308, untold thousands of elk have been harvested with .308's, .270's, and the like. My first elk fell DRFT from a well placed shot out of my 25-06. PGS, a very well know gentleman here seems to have killed 37 of every living thing on this planet using his GAP built .308 shooting 155 scenars. The proof is in the pudding. </div></div>
Partitions don't blow up, I recovered both bullets nearly intact, the shoulder shot was just under the opposite shoudler blade, the rib shot was just under the skin on the opposite side.
I didn't say you couldn't kill an elk with a .308, I said I personally don't think it is an adaquate caliber, especially when so many other better calibers are available. I like the .308 caliber and own several but I don't hunt anything larger than deer with them. I have hunted elk all up and down the Rocky Mountain front range and north of Yellowstone and don't know anyone that hunts elk with a .308, a few old timers still hunt with .270 and .30-06. The one thing you never hear about from the guys that hunt with sub-par calibers is how many animals they wound or never find, primarily because of no blood trail due to no exit wound.
</div></div>
Well Its good to know you are getting penetration (at least to the other side) Curious as to why it didn't go through at such a short range out of a WM, But again I still dont see what that has to do with the .308's capabilities. When you pair a .308 and a 300WM they can and do shoot the same bullets, the WM obviously faster, but if a WM will kill something (deer,elk,moose,otherwise) at a modest distance of 400yds, there isn't much difference than a .308 at a closer range. Bullets being equal, the .308 is simply limited to a shorter range than the WM.
The fact that you dont know anyone who hunt's with a .308 doesn't mean anything more than just that, I know lots of people that do (3 in my hunting party alone) but that doesn't mean anything either. Anything a WM can kill, I believe a .308 could also kill, its just the WM will always do it better. But in most practical hunting scenario's (300yds or less) its an edge you dont really need.
The reason you never hear about lost animals is because NOBODY likes to tell about those days, regardless of what their rifles chambered in. I'm sure that most everyone has had a bad shot, and it doesn't matter what you shoot, it you hunt long enough you will make a bad shot. If your human, you can screw up, you cant blame that on the.308.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 168BTHPM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A .308 is plenty of gun for elk and moose, I've personally blown right through an elk at 500+ yards. It depends on the load the bullets and one part unknown. Bullets do crazy things for who knows why.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 168bthpm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hunt primarily with a Sendero in .300 Win Mag using 180gr Nosler Partition PPT pushed by 78.5 grains of IMR-7828. The only critter I have shot that didn't have an exit wound was my last bull elk, he was huge and took two solid hits one in the shoulder and one in the ribs at 40 yards but no exit wound from either hit.</div></div>
Sounds like your bullet blew up, my 300wsm does the same thing anywhere less that 100 yds. I fail to see what that has to do with the potency of the .308, untold thousands of elk have been harvested with .308's, .270's, and the like. My first elk fell DRFT from a well placed shot out of my 25-06. PGS, a very well know gentleman here seems to have killed 37 of every living thing on this planet using his GAP built .308 shooting 155 scenars. The proof is in the pudding. </div></div>
Partitions don't blow up, I recovered both bullets nearly intact, the shoulder shot was just under the opposite shoudler blade, the rib shot was just under the skin on the opposite side.
I didn't say you couldn't kill an elk with a .308, I said I personally don't think it is an adaquate caliber, especially when so many other better calibers are available. I like the .308 caliber and own several but I don't hunt anything larger than deer with them. I have hunted elk all up and down the Rocky Mountain front range and north of Yellowstone and don't know anyone that hunts elk with a .308, a few old timers still hunt with .270 and .30-06. The one thing you never hear about from the guys that hunt with sub-par calibers is how many animals they wound or never find, primarily because of no blood trail due to no exit wound.
</div></div>
Well Its good to know you are getting penetration (at least to the other side) Curious as to why it didn't go through at such a short range out of a WM, But again I still dont see what that has to do with the .308's capabilities. When you pair a .308 and a 300WM they can and do shoot the same bullets, the WM obviously faster, but if a WM will kill something (deer,elk,moose,otherwise) at a modest distance of 400yds, there isn't much difference than a .308 at a closer range. Bullets being equal, the .308 is simply limited to a shorter range than the WM.
The fact that you dont know anyone who hunt's with a .308 doesn't mean anything more than just that, I know lots of people that do (3 in my hunting party alone) but that doesn't mean anything either. Anything a WM can kill, I believe a .308 could also kill, its just the WM will always do it better. But in most practical hunting scenario's (300yds or less) its an edge you dont really need.
The reason you never hear about lost animals is because NOBODY likes to tell about those days, regardless of what their rifles chambered in. I'm sure that most everyone has had a bad shot, and it doesn't matter what you shoot, it you hunt long enough you will make a bad shot. If your human, you can screw up, you cant blame that on the.308.
Re: Terminal Effectiveness
I remeber a member on here who shoots more elk in month than most will in a life time on here and i think he shoots a .308. Maybe he will see this last pic he had was about 5 of them pilled in the back of the truck.
I remeber a member on here who shoots more elk in month than most will in a life time on here and i think he shoots a .308. Maybe he will see this last pic he had was about 5 of them pilled in the back of the truck.
Re: Terminal Effectiveness
Where you at EHG?
Where you at EHG?
Re: Terminal Effectiveness
yep thats who i was thinking of
yep thats who i was thinking of
Re: Terminal Effectiveness
Here it is:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elkhuntinguide</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-size: 17pt">All the pictured boolits were recovered from Elk I personally killed this year... All were 30 caliber boolits from a 308 or a 300 WSM...</span>
<span style="font-size: 17pt">Here's a couple of Swift Sciroccos recovered from Elk...This has become one of my most favoritest boolits...</span>
<span style="font-size: 17pt">Nosler Partition I wasn't to happy with...</span>
<span style="font-size: 17pt">Nosler Accubond that did a little better...</span>
<span style="font-size: 17pt">TSX's that performed excellent...</span>
<span style="font-size: 17pt">A couple TSX's that performed like ass...</span>
<span style="font-size: 17pt">SMK's that we all know just can't kill shit...</span>
</div></div>
Here it is:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elkhuntinguide</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-size: 17pt">All the pictured boolits were recovered from Elk I personally killed this year... All were 30 caliber boolits from a 308 or a 300 WSM...</span>
<span style="font-size: 17pt">Here's a couple of Swift Sciroccos recovered from Elk...This has become one of my most favoritest boolits...</span>
<span style="font-size: 17pt">Nosler Partition I wasn't to happy with...</span>
<span style="font-size: 17pt">Nosler Accubond that did a little better...</span>
<span style="font-size: 17pt">TSX's that performed excellent...</span>
<span style="font-size: 17pt">A couple TSX's that performed like ass...</span>
<span style="font-size: 17pt">SMK's that we all know just can't kill shit...</span>
Re: Terminal Effectiveness
Those bullets didn't "blow through" the elk they were recovered inside the animals. My contention is a .308 isn't enough gun for elk, especially for people who might have to track them after the shot because it doesn't create an exit wound. EHG has a cull permit for private land and doesn't "hunt" them, he shoots them then drives up and winches them into his truck. He is probably shooting them in open hay fields or near a farmer's hay stacks.
I could work at the commercial elk farm in Fairfield MT or the buffalo ranch at Two Medicine MT and create the same pictures.
Those bullets didn't "blow through" the elk they were recovered inside the animals. My contention is a .308 isn't enough gun for elk, especially for people who might have to track them after the shot because it doesn't create an exit wound. EHG has a cull permit for private land and doesn't "hunt" them, he shoots them then drives up and winches them into his truck. He is probably shooting them in open hay fields or near a farmer's hay stacks.
I could work at the commercial elk farm in Fairfield MT or the buffalo ranch at Two Medicine MT and create the same pictures.
Re: Terminal Effectiveness
Your right they didn't, as you described earlier, even a 300WM doesn't always blow through em, even at 40yds. On the thread where those pics came from, EHG tells of the 373 elk he had killed during that season, clearly these recovered bullets show that not all of those shots were pass through.
Your argument is contradicted by the thousands of Elk, Moose and other large NA game killed every year by .308's and many other "inferior" cartridges, and by the thousands of "superior" cartridges like 300WM, RUM's, ect. that dont put animals down imeadiately because of a less than perfect hit/bullet performance.
Your right they didn't, as you described earlier, even a 300WM doesn't always blow through em, even at 40yds. On the thread where those pics came from, EHG tells of the 373 elk he had killed during that season, clearly these recovered bullets show that not all of those shots were pass through.
Your argument is contradicted by the thousands of Elk, Moose and other large NA game killed every year by .308's and many other "inferior" cartridges, and by the thousands of "superior" cartridges like 300WM, RUM's, ect. that dont put animals down imeadiately because of a less than perfect hit/bullet performance.
Re: Terminal Effectiveness
Okay you win, your magic .308 blows through elk at 500+ yards, and the only animal I have ever shot with my .300 that it didn't "blow through" was a huge bull elk at 40 yards.
This topic was started by a guy asking about the terminal effectiveness of .30 caliber cartridges. The .308 is inferior in ballistics, with a 180gr bullet it's a full 500fps slower than the .300WM. The 300WM has the same energy at 300 yards the .308 does at the muzzle. The .300WM has 50% more energy at 500 yards than the .308.
Okay you win, your magic .308 blows through elk at 500+ yards, and the only animal I have ever shot with my .300 that it didn't "blow through" was a huge bull elk at 40 yards.
This topic was started by a guy asking about the terminal effectiveness of .30 caliber cartridges. The .308 is inferior in ballistics, with a 180gr bullet it's a full 500fps slower than the .300WM. The 300WM has the same energy at 300 yards the .308 does at the muzzle. The .300WM has 50% more energy at 500 yards than the .308.
Re: Terminal Effectiveness
I'll call bull elk shit on the argument that a .308 won't punch a hole through an elk. It will if the shot placement is good. I put a round through a bull @ 283 yards right behind the shoulder and that was enough so that he walked about 20 yards, sank down and couldn't get up again. I walked down to within 50 yards and placed a second round right behind the second to finish him off. Maybe a .300 WSM would have done the job with one round, but that was only to put him out of his misery. He was dying after the first. (165 gr. Accubond in front of 45.5 grains of Varget, Lapua brass and CCI BR2 primer - 2650 fps).
When we field dressed him, it was clear that both rounds had blown 2" holes out the other side of his rib cage. A Partition would be more lethal but I can't stand the low BC and the Accubond is a nice compromise. Nosler BTs, however, are no good on anything but antelope.
I'll call bull elk shit on the argument that a .308 won't punch a hole through an elk. It will if the shot placement is good. I put a round through a bull @ 283 yards right behind the shoulder and that was enough so that he walked about 20 yards, sank down and couldn't get up again. I walked down to within 50 yards and placed a second round right behind the second to finish him off. Maybe a .300 WSM would have done the job with one round, but that was only to put him out of his misery. He was dying after the first. (165 gr. Accubond in front of 45.5 grains of Varget, Lapua brass and CCI BR2 primer - 2650 fps).
When we field dressed him, it was clear that both rounds had blown 2" holes out the other side of his rib cage. A Partition would be more lethal but I can't stand the low BC and the Accubond is a nice compromise. Nosler BTs, however, are no good on anything but antelope.
Re: Terminal Effectiveness
A 308 will kill anything that walks on this rock with proper shot placement... Anyone relying on a pass through to aid in tracking may need to consider better shot placement...
I kill a fuckton of animals every year with my ballistic challenged 308... Not once have I ever needed more gun to kill shit... With proper marksmanship skills and trigger time the 308 will work in any scenario...
Pass throughs are common with the 308 at extended ranges... I've had pass throughs out to 900 yards on elk numerous times... It may not be the best tool for the job but works just fine in the right hands... If you understand the limitations of your rifle and of course your personal limitations then caliber choice is not a big concern in my opinion... To pad poor marksmanship with a larger caliber or rely on horseshit numbers as a killing point is fuckin funny...
Now before someone gets too carried away running their cock holster lets get some shit straight... I do not kill elk in open hay fields or near a farmer's hay stack nor do I have a cull permit... Before you go bumpin your gums you should have your facts straight Turbo... How would you know if I "Hunted" these elk or just plain "Shoot" them...
BTW I'd love to see you create the same pics... Never gonna happen...
"Terminal Effectiveness" is not caliber dictated... Shot placement, Bullet and head-stamp in that order...
Here is a couple pics of cows killed today by the "Wifey" with the "Inferior" 308 using FGMM 168's... We all know SMK's cant kill shit...
One cow was killed at 352 yards the other at 416 yards... Looks pretty fuckin "Terminal" to me...
Cow shot at 416 yards quartering to us...
Both cows... Notice the lack of hay or the open fields... These elk were "Hunted" on a 27 mile long river bed with NO vehicle access...
A 308 will kill anything that walks on this rock with proper shot placement... Anyone relying on a pass through to aid in tracking may need to consider better shot placement...
I kill a fuckton of animals every year with my ballistic challenged 308... Not once have I ever needed more gun to kill shit... With proper marksmanship skills and trigger time the 308 will work in any scenario...
Pass throughs are common with the 308 at extended ranges... I've had pass throughs out to 900 yards on elk numerous times... It may not be the best tool for the job but works just fine in the right hands... If you understand the limitations of your rifle and of course your personal limitations then caliber choice is not a big concern in my opinion... To pad poor marksmanship with a larger caliber or rely on horseshit numbers as a killing point is fuckin funny...
Now before someone gets too carried away running their cock holster lets get some shit straight... I do not kill elk in open hay fields or near a farmer's hay stack nor do I have a cull permit... Before you go bumpin your gums you should have your facts straight Turbo... How would you know if I "Hunted" these elk or just plain "Shoot" them...
BTW I'd love to see you create the same pics... Never gonna happen...
"Terminal Effectiveness" is not caliber dictated... Shot placement, Bullet and head-stamp in that order...
Here is a couple pics of cows killed today by the "Wifey" with the "Inferior" 308 using FGMM 168's... We all know SMK's cant kill shit...
One cow was killed at 352 yards the other at 416 yards... Looks pretty fuckin "Terminal" to me...
Cow shot at 416 yards quartering to us...
Both cows... Notice the lack of hay or the open fields... These elk were "Hunted" on a 27 mile long river bed with NO vehicle access...
Re: Terminal Effectiveness
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 168BTHPM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay you win, your magic .308 blows through elk at 500+ yards, and the only animal I have ever shot with my .300 that it didn't "blow through" was a huge bull elk at 40 yards.</div></div>
There's no magic, only physics, and maybe a little sarcasm.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 168bthpm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This topic was started by a guy asking about the terminal effectiveness of .30 caliber cartridges. The .308 is inferior in ballistics, with a 180gr bullet it's a full 500fps slower than the .300WM. The 300WM has the same energy at 300 yards the .308 does at the muzzle. The .300WM has 50% more energy at 500 yards than the .308. </div></div>
Again your right, the .308 is inferior to a 300WM, but that doesn't disqualify it as a big game cartridge. A .375 H&H is the African standard, a 300WM is an inferior African hunting cartridge but hundreds if not thousands of people take their 300WM to Africa.
Nobody is claiming that a .308 is better or even equal to the 300WM, just that it is plenty of gun when placed in the hands of someone who knows its limits.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elkhuntingguide</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Pass throughs are common with the 308 at extended ranges... I've had pass throughs out to 900 yards on elk numerous times... It may not be the best tool for the job but works just fine in the right hands... If you understand the limitations of your rifle and of course your personal limitations then caliber choice is not a big concern in my opinion... To pad poor marksmanship with a larger caliber or rely on horseshit numbers as a killing point is fuckin funny...
"Terminal Effectiveness" is not caliber dictated... Shot placement, Bullet and head-stamp in that order... </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 168BTHPM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay you win, your magic .308 blows through elk at 500+ yards, and the only animal I have ever shot with my .300 that it didn't "blow through" was a huge bull elk at 40 yards.</div></div>
There's no magic, only physics, and maybe a little sarcasm.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 168bthpm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This topic was started by a guy asking about the terminal effectiveness of .30 caliber cartridges. The .308 is inferior in ballistics, with a 180gr bullet it's a full 500fps slower than the .300WM. The 300WM has the same energy at 300 yards the .308 does at the muzzle. The .300WM has 50% more energy at 500 yards than the .308. </div></div>
Again your right, the .308 is inferior to a 300WM, but that doesn't disqualify it as a big game cartridge. A .375 H&H is the African standard, a 300WM is an inferior African hunting cartridge but hundreds if not thousands of people take their 300WM to Africa.
Nobody is claiming that a .308 is better or even equal to the 300WM, just that it is plenty of gun when placed in the hands of someone who knows its limits.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elkhuntingguide</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Pass throughs are common with the 308 at extended ranges... I've had pass throughs out to 900 yards on elk numerous times... It may not be the best tool for the job but works just fine in the right hands... If you understand the limitations of your rifle and of course your personal limitations then caliber choice is not a big concern in my opinion... To pad poor marksmanship with a larger caliber or rely on horseshit numbers as a killing point is fuckin funny...
"Terminal Effectiveness" is not caliber dictated... Shot placement, Bullet and head-stamp in that order... </div></div>
