The .243 as a precision gun.

[Daddyusmaximus]

Hi all. FNG checking in. First post. Not new to shooting, was in uniform (Army) for 28 years, (both active, and guard) but in various jobs. Been a 19E, 19K, 88M, 11B, 11C, 00E (sorry about that one) but all my shooting was done at close to med range. Even my combat experience (3 tours) was in Iraq, rather than Afghanistan, so again... closer engagement ranges. Hunting at home... Same thing. I live in Indiana. Deer and squirrel are as close as 15 yds in the woods, and I've never shot more than maybe 75 yds.

So... when I decided to get into some precision shooting at longer ranges, this place came highly recommended as a place to learn. I've also been watching a youtube series called "Sniper 101" by Tiborasaurus Rex. I like his videos. He's very in depth with the subject, and I'm looking forward to putting together my own ballistic tables for my rifle.

Now, my rifle. I don't have a lot to spend here, as I'm living on VA disability these days. Got my truck blown out from under me in '05. Going along with the limited income is the high outflow. One kid fresh out of college, the other in her 3rd year, trying to build a CJ7 from the frame up... Basically, same kind of financial problems a lot of people face... I managed to find a Remington 700 in .243 for sale that was in excellent shape, and at a good price. I had bought from this guy before, so I knew his guns to be nice. I jumped on it. Also, in these videos I'm watching, I'm seeing Rex hit with a .243 at 1,000 yds and out. If I can get consistent at 600 with my eyesight, and nerve damage, I'll be happy. Anyway, this is the rifle I've chosen to start with. The only .308 I own is an AR. It's relatively accurate, but not really build for precision. It's a 14" patrol carbine, with a LPVO. Keeping with the budget theme, I have ordered the Magpul Hunter stock for it.

Scope is a Vortex Crossfire II 4-12x44 at the moment, but it will not stay. I have a Nikon M308 on my Brazilian Mauser that I really like. I use the "Spot On" app to put in my 7mm Mauser ammo info. Very clear for the money, and the turrets have been accurate enough for the shooting I've done so far with it. Despite Nikon calling it quits, I found a 30mm version of the same scope on Euro Optics, and ordered it. I can do my ballistic tables in MOA to match the turrets, and just use the "Spot On" app with the reticle when I don't need to be so precise. Of course, I've also given thought to a lower safety, some bolt handle work, and rings for the Mauser... but 7x57 ammo is hard to find, and I don't reload.

Anyway, I look forward to sharing, and learning.

My starting point...

 

[Ledzep]

The biggest 'problem' you'll run into is the twist rate of the rifling on that barrel. Most likely a 1:10" twist that won't stabilize the heavy bullets most folks are shooting at long range. Guys that are shooting LR with .243 usually run an 1:7.5 or 1:8" twist to spin the heavies fast enough to stabilize.

Nonetheless, you should have no problem zinging some lighter bullets out to 600-800yd. I'd be looking at Varmint style bullets as they'll probably group just as good as LR/"match" bullets, just won't have as high a BC. There are also a few low drag hunting options available that should shoot well.

 

[Daddyusmaximus]

The biggest 'problem' you'll run into is the twist rate of the rifling on that barrel. Most likely a 1:10" twist that won't stabilize the heavy bullets most folks are shooting at long range. Guys that are shooting LR with .243 usually run an 1:7.5 or 1:8" twist to spin the heavies fast enough to stabilize.

Nonetheless, you should have no problem zinging some lighter bullets out to 600-800yd. I'd be looking at Varmint style bullets as they'll probably group just as good as LR/"match" bullets, just won't have as high a BC. There are also a few low drag hunting options available that should shoot well.

How do I find out what the twist is in a used rifle? This is also my first ever Remington 700. No clue if it's an ADL, DBL, or what... The receiver simply says Remington 700, and the barrel is marked for the caliber .243 Winchester, but not twist. It's a 20" barrel that's .650 at the muzzle. It came bedded in that Boyd's stock, so I don't even know what it looked like from the factory. How accurate is it doing the pull a cleaning rod through thing?

 

[sandwarrior]

Anymore, it's a crap shoot as to what Remington twisted .243/6mm Barrels. If that thing is "new, new" it's probably twisted in a 1-9.25" Got a barrel code?

To find the twist get a good cleaning rod (bearing type) like a Dewey. Get a 6mm jag and use 1"x1" patches. Mark a spot on the cleaning rod, preferably back on the aluminum that turns with the rod. Get a tape measure. Start the patch and measure from the action. Push the rod through until it turns back where the mark is back where it started. Measure. One turn in however many inches it took to push it that far. Easy peasy.

FWIW, I love the stock. And if you do have a 1-10" get yourself a bunch of 87 gr. V-maxes. I shot them to 1150 or whatever it is to the buffalo in Raton from a 1-10". YMWV depending on density altitude. In other words how hot a day and how high in elevation you are. Raton is high density altitude. The bullet goes a lot farther.

For ELD-X the 90's are the only ones that will stabilize in a 10-10" twist. Not sure on the new 103's, but I'm doubtful they will. They may not do any better even if you have a 1-9.25"

The good news is if you can't reach what you want with the twist you have, it's one of the best actions to rebarrel. Save your pennies a couple of months to get a good barrel. Then save some more pennies and find a good smith to stick it on there with the chamber of your choice. .243 Win is an excellent chamber for reaching out with the right twist. And no, you are not going to shoot the barrel out quickly unless you start competing hard with it.

Added: Welcome to the Hide!

 

[GIXXER2000]

The clean rod thing does work.From looking at Remington web site looks like the common twist rate is 1-9 1/8 for .243 win. Having said that you are good up 95 gr to maybe 100gr. Have fun shooting lighter bullets until you are ready to re-barrel. I run a 1-7.5 in my 243 win and shoot up to 115gr bullets.

 

[sandwarrior]

The clean rod thing does work.From looking at Remington web site looks like the common twist rate is 1-9 1/8 for .243 win. Having said that you are good up 95 gr to maybe 100gr. Have fun shooting lighter bullets until you are ready to re-barrel. I run a 1-7.5 in my 243 win and shoot up to 115gr bullets.

Old style blunt bullets will stabilize in a 1-10" A funny thing with that. I have a 6-.284 with a 1-10" twist. I push 100 gr. bullets out about 300 fps faster than my friend pushing 105's and 108's. 3350 vs. 3050~ish. @300 yds. my drop is 1" less than his. @400 his drop is 1" less than mine! People think ballistics don't matter? That's a two inch less drop starting at 300 fps slower. That said, 300 is where BC's show up. They rule all the way out. Per an article here, maybe an article on AS, not sure, consistent BC's are what really matters. Every bullet the same from tip, to ogive to bearing/body junction, bearing surface, boat-tail junction and boat-tail. It does no good to have slick, streamlined bullets that fly just a little different from each other.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

He mentioned tibosaurus Rex... oh good lord!

Well, being a new guy AND smart enough to come to vintage.. we’ll let that pass.

The .243 hs the potential to be an extremely repeatable cartridge. It’s just that few people ever work up loads to help the .243 reach its potential. And few folks ever accurize the rifles to their full potential.

So you are sort of stuck with the worst of all worlds... not a lot of good loads, components and dope. And few rifles optimized.

But the .243 has real potential. It’s just not usually economical vs. other calibers/options. By the time you get an oddball in the precision world shooting, you could have bought an off the rack rifle that is designed for precision long range. But that does not mean give up!

btw, I have a Pre 64 Win featherweight supergrade. A unicorn among rifles. Off a rest, it will shoot 2” at 100 all day long with some deer loads I made for it. Never took the time to do better than that, because it will shoot minute of Buck ... all day.

If I went to town with loads, I am sure I could tighten that up. But have no need to.

So don’t overlook the .243 and if it’s your only option... start working up loads. Worst you can do is learn a LOT! And be ready when another rifle/platform/calIbre comes your way.

Welcome to vintage... the gentleman’s club of the ‘Hide! Never mention Tibiasoreass Rex again unless you like razzing. Just ‘sayin!

Sirhr

 

[Daddyusmaximus]

Never mention Tibiasoreass Rex again unless you like razzing. Just ‘sayin!

Sirhr

I take it, he's the James Yeager of the precision world?

Hey, I was just looking for some info on the youtube and ran across his channel.

As far as developing a load that works, I'll never get into reloading. I'm going to search for the factory load that the gun likes best. If I get into it a lot I can always rebarrel it in .308 later, but right now I kinda like the idea having a caliber that's now just the same as everyone else, and with my injuries, and repeated surgeries, a softer shooting round isn't all that undesirable. One of the reasons I love my 7mm Mausers so much.

 

[Daddyusmaximus]

I just realized I put this in the wrong place. I was wondering why "vintage" was being brought up. If there is a mod who could move it to the regular bolt action section please. Sorry to be a PITA on my first day...

My Scout rifle is "vintage" if that makes up for it any...

 

[Rookie]

First, welcome to the hide and thanks for your service! I love the 243. Been shooting 243 competitively for years with a 7.5 twist and 115gr bullets. As others have said, yours won't shoot those but shoot the crap out of it with 100gr or lighter bullets. Excellent white tail gun. Thats one sexy looking gun btw.

 

[Rookie]

tell me more about the scope and mount on the scout.

 

[Daddyusmaximus]

tell me more about the scope and mount on the scout.

The scope is the Leupold FX-II Scout scope. Its a 2.5x28mm. The mount is a one-off my gunsmith turned on the lathe. It's press fit on the barrel, then the barrel dimpled, and held in place with set screws. I gave him an old piece of picatinny rail to put on top. Set screws are under the rail section. He also remover the long range side of the rear sight so it isn't in my view when I use the scope. I rotate the 0-300 side down flat normally, but if need be, I can take off the scope, and flip it back up.

From behind. Note rear sight folded down. I had to reshape the buttplate too as the Boyd's buttstock is thinner than the original. A local lady who does antique restorations refinished it all close as she could to match. Pretty close considering two different types of wood.

 

[Rookie]

very cool

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I take it, he's the James Yeager of the precision world?

Hey, I was just looking for some info on the youtube and ran across his channel.

As far as developing a load that works, I'll never get into reloading. I'm going to search for the factory load that the gun likes best. If I get into it a lot I can always rebarrel it in .308 later, but right now I kinda like the idea having a caliber that's now just the same as everyone else, and with my injuries, and repeated surgeries, a softer shooting round isn't all that undesirable. One of the reasons I love my 7mm Mausers so much.

First, you are not at all in the wrong place with those rifles. Both great looking, btw.

And one bit of advice I can give is to give reloading a try. For far less than the cost of re-barreling, you can have a basic RCBS loading setup. Which, compared to factory ammo, will pay for itself in 200 rounds loaded.

Snipers hide is a gold mine for the new reloader. And if you want softer shooting or optimized rounds, it is the only way to go.

It is also fun and relaxing and let’s you really tune your rifle vs. trying to find factory .243 which, really, is never going to be match grade! I may be wrong, but I don’t think there is a single company doing match grade .243 factory ammo. Then again, I’ve never really looked.

Again welcome aboard and if I may say, that Scout rifle is gorgeous! Well done!

Cheers, Sirhr

P.S. if you put an ad in wanted in the px... you may find a used press and a starter kit for a good price! There are lots of guys who start out single stage or with a simple LEE press and upgrade. You do not need a spendy or fancy press to make match grade handloads. Technique is what matters. And attention to detail. And that costs nothing but time.

 

[sandwarrior]

I take it, he's the James Yeager of the precision world?

Hey, I was just looking for some info on the youtube and ran across his channel.

As far as developing a load that works, I'll never get into reloading. I'm going to search for the factory load that the gun likes best. If I get into it a lot I can always rebarrel it in .308 later, but right now I kinda like the idea having a caliber that's now just the same as everyone else, and with my injuries, and repeated surgeries, a softer shooting round isn't all that undesirable. One of the reasons I love my 7mm Mausers so much.

Please, please, please do not JUNK that rifle by putting a .3-0h-hate barrel on it. The .243 shoots flatter by far and connects all the energy you need to a deer and with the right bullet, an elk. That's if you ever feel the need to go after those.

Agreed with sirhr, reloading is the way to go if you A. want to save money and, B. want to build more accurate loads. Also, C. a hobby to do that is reasonable in cost.
FWIW, I had an old 700 .243 that shot moa with handloads. And, it was a pleasure to shoot. I never should have sold that rifle, but in my mind certain things needed to be done and I needed money for them.

As Rookie noted, it's a competitive cartridge. I will warn that shooting a lot it does eat barrels. So, if you do rebarrel, you can get a tighter twist and shoot bullets that will reach way out there. Just the standard 'ol .243, born in 1955 so it's vintage, When replacing, a longer barrel helps. Heavier too,

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Hey OP Daddy-o!

Here is a smoking good deal... to get you started on reloading.

vintage LYMAN Spartan Reloading Press #2 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for vintage LYMAN Spartan Reloading Press #2 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

There are others out there, but these old Lymans work!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Per the website, that's 1025meters.

High Power Rifle Silhouette

Absolutely no Magnum class rifle or .22 centerfire are allowed on this range. No belted Magnum or any cartridge with similar or greater power allowed. No full metal jacketed or armor piercing cartridges allowed. Distances from firing line: 200 meter chicken; 300 meter pig; 385 meter turkey; 500 meter ram. Or, take aim at our famous White Buffalo at 1,025 meters! See Range Regulations for details.

Nominally it's a 1Km target. Back in September2002, the sign behind the line said 1123 yards(Jeez Louise, has it really been nearly 18 years?). 1025 meters rounds out to 1121yd.

Greg

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Two good looking rifles. I just have to say that both hobbies listed can get expensive. Maybe you'll get around to a picture of the CJ sometime. I came here looking for precision reloading a few years ago and have learned quite a bit.

 

[fdkay]

Hi all. FNG checking in. First post. Not new to shooting, was in uniform (Army) for 28 years, (both active, and guard) but in various jobs. Been a 19E, 19K, 88M, 11B, 11C, 00E (sorry about that one) but all my shooting was done at close to med range. Even my combat experience (3 tours) was in Iraq, rather than Afghanistan, so again... closer engagement ranges. Hunting at home... Same thing. I live in Indiana. Deer and squirrel are as close as 15 yds in the woods, and I've never shot more than maybe 75 yds.

So... when I decided to get into some precision shooting at longer ranges, this place came highly recommended as a place to learn. I've also been watching a youtube series called "Sniper 101" by Tiborasaurus Rex. I like his videos. He's very in depth with the subject, and I'm looking forward to putting together my own ballistic tables for my rifle.

Now, my rifle. I don't have a lot to spend here, as I'm living on VA disability these days. Got my truck blown out from under me in '05. Going along with the limited income is the high outflow. One kid fresh out of college, the other in her 3rd year, trying to build a CJ7 from the frame up... Basically, same kind of financial problems a lot of people face... I managed to find a Remington 700 in .243 for sale that was in excellent shape, and at a good price. I had bought from this guy before, so I knew his guns to be nice. I jumped on it. Also, in these videos I'm watching, I'm seeing Rex hit with a .243 at 1,000 yds and out. If I can get consistent at 600 with my eyesight, and nerve damage, I'll be happy. Anyway, this is the rifle I've chosen to start with. The only .308 I own is an AR. It's relatively accurate, but not really build for precision. It's a 14" patrol carbine, with a LPVO. Keeping with the budget theme, I have ordered the Magpul Hunter stock for it.

Scope is a Vortex Crossfire II 4-12x44 at the moment, but it will not stay. I have a Nikon M308 on my Brazilian Mauser that I really like. I use the "Spot On" app to put in my 7mm Mauser ammo info. Very clear for the money, and the turrets have been accurate enough for the shooting I've done so far with it. Despite Nikon calling it quits, I found a 30mm version of the same scope on Euro Optics, and ordered it. I can do my ballistic tables in MOA to match the turrets, and just use the "Spot On" app with the reticle when I don't need to be so precise. Of course, I've also given thought to a lower safety, some bolt handle work, and rings for the Mauser... but 7x57 ammo is hard to find, and I don't reload.

Anyway, I look forward to sharing, and learning.

My starting point...

That's a good looking rifle (as is your scout rifle).
There are a couple of things to consider. Ammunition suitable for long range in .243 is not typically found on store shelves.
It can be, and is, used as a long range caliber, though not as much as others.
It eats barrel's.
At one time, George Gardner ran a straight .243, though it was in a fast twist barrel and he ran the 115 DTAC's (you can't run those in a factory tube).

You are being redirected...

You'll definitely want to learn to reload, it isn't rocket surgery.
You could run something like a 90 grain tipped gameking and be very competitive.
Figure on replacing your barrel after 1200 rounds or so.
Shoot slow, don't heat it up.
FYI, several companies offer Mil discounts, even if you no longer serve. Burris and Vortex immediately pop in my mind. Several of our site sponsors will provide you a similar discount.

 

[Daddyusmaximus]

Magpul Hunter stock came in today. Although an "el-cheapo" by precision stock standards, I'm living on VA disability, so kinda on a budget. Anyway, it seems pretty comfy for what it is. Been playing with is since I put it on. I may have to take off one of the stock spacers. It does check most of the same boxes as the $900+ custom stocks do, including having an aluminium bedding block built into it.

The scope is a Nikon M-Tactical .308 4-16x42SF BDC 800. This is also a budget piece. I also have the 1" tube version. Had it for a few years, and have liked it well enough to keep it, and swap it out to 3 or 4 different guns. It's on my Brazilian Mauser now, and does quite well. Too bad Nikon quit the scope game. I think they did pretty good on the lower end of the budget spectrum for guys like me.

I have a Chrono on the way, (finally) so once I can get out shooting again, I'll be able to make some ballistic tables (in MOA to match the turrets) for it. Also, I can choose my caliber, and ammo load in Nikon's "Spot on" app to go with the BDC reticle as well. I have a rangefinder, but will need to come up with a way to measure the pressure, ammo temp... and get a few other pieces of gear, but I'm just starting out on this odyssey, still learning, so I'll just take it a step at a time.

 

[sandwarrior]

Magpul Hunter stock came in today. Although an "el-cheapo" by precision stock standards, I'm living on VA disability, so kinda on a budget. Anyway, it seems pretty comfy for what it is. Been playing with is since I put it on. I may have to take off one of the stock spacers. It does check most of the same boxes as the $900+ custom stocks do, including having an aluminium bedding block built into it.

The scope is a Nikon M-Tactical .308 4-16x42SF BDC 800. This is also a budget piece. I also have the 1" tube version. Had it for a few years, and have liked it well enough to keep it, and swap it out to 3 or 4 different guns. It's on my Brazilian Mauser now, and does quite well. Too bad Nikon quit the scope game. I think they did pretty good on the lower end of the budget spectrum for guys like me.

I have a Chrono on the way, (finally) so once I can get out shooting again, I'll be able to make some ballistic tables (in MOA to match the turrets) for it. Also, I can choose my caliber, and ammo load in Nikon's "Spot on" app to go with the BDC reticle as well. I have a rangefinder, but will need to come up with a way to measure the pressure, ammo temp... and get a few other pieces of gear, but I'm just starting out on this odyssey, still learning, so I'll just take it a step at a time.

HOLY CRAP! Where did that beautiful maple stock with the ebony fore end go??

 

[sirhrmechanic]

HOLY CRAP! Where did that beautiful maple stock with the ebony fore end go??

Right? Can we make him Sit in the corner or wash his mouth out with soap or something?

sirhr

 

[Daddyusmaximus]

I still have that stock. Never liked it much though. I always preferred darker woods, and if I'm going to try my hand at getting into precision shooting, I'm gonna need something more stable than a non-bedded wood stock. If I get serious about shooting precision, I can find me another 700 action for this stock (maybe 6.5 or .308) then put the .243 back where it came from, but I'm liking the Magpul so far. Way more comfy on my wrist, the detachable mag is so nice, barrel channel has room for a heavier barrel...

 

[sandwarrior]

I still have that stock. Never liked it much though. I always preferred darker woods, and if I'm going to try my hand at getting into precision shooting, I'm gonna need something more stable than a non-bedded wood stock. If I get serious about shooting precision, I can find me another 700 action for this stock (maybe 6.5 or .308) then put the .243 back where it came from, but I'm liking the Magpul so far. Way more comfy on my wrist, the detachable mag is so nice, barrel channel has room for a heavier barrel...

If you don't like it, I have the perfect home for it. We'll feed it and walk it and take care of it ...

 

[Daddyusmaximus]

If you don't like it, I have the perfect home for it. We'll feed it and walk it and take care of it ...

I'm too new to sell stuff here yet... Plus, it's been one day since I put the Magpul on, so haven't had a chance to go shoot it, and decide if it will work for me or not.