• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Range Report The Art Of Calling Wind.

2625fps

Sergeant
Minuteman
Oct 11, 2009
95
0
50
NC
Well its been over a decade since I've had to do this. Even then it was a two man team and we would call for each others proper dope manipulations. I understand wind, and know how to read the mirage.

I plan on finally coming out of my hole and start shooting matches /tactical. This will be the first time doing so out of the military.

I would love to hear your tricks of the trade that help you master accurate dope changes when time was of the essence and you had no one else to rely on to do this for you.

Before we get started I know this truly is an art and perfect practice makes perfect... I just would like to hear what others have found to work for them.
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

I trust mirage more than anything else. Carry a wind meter, and guess wind values without it, pull it out and check how you're doing.
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

Mirage can be a useful indicator when other indicators are missing, but (as I suspect you already know) a long trajectory will traverse more than one wind zone/pattern.

Mirage betrays those individual zones, and we identify and assess them by focusing our optics at the various intervening distances.

What the mirage discloses must be weighted according to the portion of the trajectory where it appears.

The disclosed wind initiates a deflection. As long as it exerts a force, that force acts as an acceleration, precisely like gravity, but unlike gravity, it acts in a horizontal plane, at a right angle to gravity.

Also unlike gravity, it is not a constant, but varies with the wind force and direction. If it were like gravity, it would be like gravity turning on and off, and acting in opposite directions at different times, but its effects are taking place along the horizontal, rather than vertical, plane.

Think like the bullet is a cue ball, lightly glancing off another ball. This glance represents a brief wind intervention.

Once past the intervention the ball continue onward, along a straight, but new, path. If it encounters nothing else, its deflection is linear (i.e at 10 inches it's 1" from the initial path, at 20" it's 2", at 30", it's 3").

If it encounters another intervention, the path is again altered, and continues from that point in a linear, but new path.

This covers wind switches along the path, but there is also the totally independent factor of a sustained wind along the entire path.

A sustained wind exerts a constant force, which acts to accelerate the bullet further and further away from the intended path. <span style="font-style: italic">This force is relative, depending the wind's speed and the bullet's gained lateral speed</span>.

The resultant deflection is not linear, but curved, and not along an arc, but along a parabolic curve, just the way gravity works. To visualize this deflection, think in terms of tilting the pool table, if ever so slightly. You can see how this imposes a curved path, and how that path follows not an arc, but a parabolic one.

To understand the interaction between sustained winds along the entire trajectory, and brief gusts at finite points, simply combine the two independent scenarios.

In practical terms, it's unlikely these effects can be calculated to render precise values. It's just not practical, for the precise same reasons that chasing the spotter is an impractical strategy. There's time elapsing all the time. By the time we can act on our observations, those observations will have changed, and any solution will be for a problem which no longer exists. Whether it differs by a little or a lot is immaterial, what <span style="font-style: italic">is</span> material is that it differs.

But the human wetware can do what no hardware and software can do (yet). It can assess, interpolate, and project. It can learn and improve its interpolation and projection. It can take in a set of sensations, render a guess, act on that guess, and assess the outcome. It can learn to bring that outcome into alignment with intent, in a way no other earthly system can do.

That's how you learn the wind and its consequences, and apply those consequences to render your intent.

Understanding the process involves understanding the consequences of solar heating, thermodynamics, and the physics of rising and falling air columns. Taken as a whole it can be daunting and overwhelming. Taken in separate small segments, it may take time, but it can be mastered.

When we've done what mastering we can, we are still left with indefinites; but also with an understanding of how those indefinites interact.

Some day, someone will determine a means to render those indefinites definite. If that's happened, I'm unaware as of yet.

Greg

PS After reading subsequent posts, of course there's a lot more to all of this, and everything I've read so far seems to jibe very well.

My own views tend to steer away from trying to reduce all this down to precise numbers. In my limited experience, I've come to suspect that nature and science are engaged in a constant, subtle effort to confuse the most adept rifleman. No matter how much I manage to grasp, there remains additional, ever smaller, inflences that escape me. But I can live with what I've got.
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

Wind ebbs & flows like water, similar to waves banding onto shore. Each wave has a different velocity and the drop off between the waves varies as well. On top of that, as you move off the ground, wind increases because the resistance is changing as it moves away from the ground, and this is where the long range shooter's bullet lives, well above the ground, as much as 14' above the line of sight with a 308 to 1000 yards.

I break calling wind into two categories, the Science Department and the Art Department.

The science department is at the shooter. This is where the shooter has the greatest chance of success and actually assigning a proper value to the wind speed, as in using a wind meter. As well this is where we actually "Feel" the wind and can begin to build a baseline for our readings as we gain experience.

The Art department is downrange, anywhere between the shooter and the target. This is where you can finesse things based off what we see. It's called the art department because there is nothing scientific about it. We see things moving, which will help with direction, but the velocity part is nothing more than a wild ass guess, usually based off what we feel.

As far as mirage, that works sometimes and not as much as people suspect. It doesn't work across a mountain shooting into a valley. It doesn't work when its not present do to environmental conditions and it doesn't help when the wind velocity increase over 12MPH. Even if its present, it only tells you the wind is blowing, and blowing hard. It can't tell you the difference between a 12MPH wind and a 16MPH wind, which is significant.

I have more, but for now, I have to run... ponder that until I return.
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

These are all very well thought out posts concerning theory, relativity, and science. But I'm more concerned with:

equipment
calculations
programs
any other homemade remedies to get you on target rapidly.

For instance, the steps you take and the equipment you use from the time you get into your firing position, until your final dope is accurately set on the scope.
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

i consider wind doping skills an acquired taste....

i'll cut to the quick.

i have been IN the wind, literally have experienced being involved in what the wind does to an object (ME)....dog-leg,updraft,gust,straight line, rolling.....dust devil......storm front...and my favorite.....them dog-day-no-wind-not-a-breath-of-wind, wind !

after roughly 33 years of sport skydiving sometimes in accuracy competitions...one learns what the wind is doing, sometimes your hide depends on it and although we tend to really be students of the art of wind reading....being in the actual circumstances enlightens you.

its helped MY ability to read wind....and i think pilots have an eye for it as well, after all they too are feeling their way though the wind also.
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

Equipment..... get a Kestrel. Some will tell you to get the fancy one. I just use a 2500NV.

Calculations:
Check out the PPT from the USAMU.
http://www.usaac.army.mil/amu/ServiceRifle/Classes/SDM.zip
Sterling, another member on here shot me this link a couple days back.

Programs:
1. Shooter Ready. It's a great way to pass the time, but not a replacement for getting out in the weeds.
2. Ballistic FTE. It's awesome for running calculations on the fly at longer ranges.

When possible hold for wind. I have shot on a couple of ranges in the last month that the wind could change 180* WHILE you were pulling the trigger. If I was dialing for wind I would not have been able to break the shot. Since I was holding, I just swapped sides and let it rip before it could shift again.

Some will tell you to wait for the wind to drop before you shoot. This is fine if you are not under any time constraints. If you are, you have to make Lemonade out of Lemons. Everytime I have tried to wait out the wind it just blows and blows. I just try to fire when it's not gusting.

Finally, get a windmeter and call the wind BEFORE you look at the meter. It's a self test and you will get better at it. If you look at the meter first, your ego will get in the way and you will think you are better at wind calls than you really are.
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

Thanks lonewolf. That was exactly the post I was looking for.
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

Good, I'm glad at least one of us was able to help.
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

A truly minor quibble on a truly marvelous post:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A sustained wind exerts a constant force, which acts to accelerate the bullet further and further away from the intended path.</div></div>

It is my understanding that once the bullet has accelerated horizontally up to the horizontal speed of the wind, the wind no longer is acting like a force in the horizontal direction.
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

Mitch;

I'll buy that. Makes excellent sense.

Thank you very much for the heads-up. I have edited the post to reflect your advice.

Greg
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

Wind indicators by Vern Harrison at C.V.T. and now being used at the Ft. Benning Sniper Program

0-1 mph wind imperceptible
no grass of leaf movement
smoke rises straight up
1-2 mph cooling effect of wind may be noticed
light movement of grasses
only a few leaves on any given tree in motion
3 mph wind pressure can be felt on bare arms
grasses obviously in motion
all leaves on any given tree in light motion
4 mph wind pressure can be felt on face
small twigs bearing leaf clusters begin light motion
5 mph tips of smaller branches begin motion that hold the leaf
limbs
6 mph the trunk branches start to move. These are the heavy
limbs holding the smaller branches
7 mph larger (trunk) limbs begin motion
younger (softer) leaves begin to flip over on the windy
side of the trees
8 mph tree tops are in light motion
mature leaves flip over on the windy side of trees
9 mph tree tops show obvious movement
almost all leaves flip over
10 mph wind pressure can be felt against the body
tree tops show substantial movement
mirage runs slowly and parallel to the ground
11 mph same as above
12 mph wind pressure can be felt against the body
12-15 mph dust is raised
lighter debris moves around
mirage blows off completely in exposed areas
15-20 mph dust clouds blow around
debris blows around
smaller tree trunks sway
major limbs on larger trees in constant motion
20 + mph difficult walking
large tree trunks sway

Thanks again to Vern for allowing this posting
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

Elevation is science, wind is voodoo.

Experience and DOPE help the most. Like LWUSMC and I recommended, getting a windmeter and praticing calling the wind speed prior to checking with the meter is a good exercise.

Patiently awaiting input on how to guage wind in dead space (the shooting across a valley example), as other than watching indicators below the bullets path, I'm stumped.
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Patiently awaiting input on how to guage wind in dead space (the shooting across a valley example), as other than watching indicators below the bullets path, I'm stumped. </div></div>

It's called a good spotter.
wink.gif


Done some shooting off of Mesas in the southwest.
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

Exactly, there are places where indicators don't exist... we deal with Combat Weatherman alot, and I always ask them about it, every single class in fact, and these guys can look at a tree and tell you the prevailing winds from the direction of growth, but all they will tell you from looking at trees, leaves, grass, etc, that all the wind is doing is "blowing" they don't put any faith in putting a number on it, other than learned experience from wind at the shooter.

trees, leaves, grass, across a 1000 yards or more, it's not an honest or accurate representation. It's an educated wild ass guess from data at the shooter, felt, metered, or a combination of both. Someone can ask me the speed and I am usually withing a couple miles per hour because I live in the wind day in and day out and work with it, but explaining it to someone who is learning, that is a different story. I recommend "feeling it", "watching it" and then "metering it" so you can get a base line and start to train yourself to understand and gauge it.

I can tell you for a fact, that in a 2 minute period of metering the wind it can change from 3 MPH to 24MPH here were we shoot. And the trees are not reacting to those changes. It gusts, drops off, gusts again higher and all the leaves do is "move" they don't register those changes, and in fact a change at me does not mean a change 300 meters out. So you can take a baseline, read the averages, but you have to be conscious of the ebbs and flows, which only a meter will tell with any certainty.

In certain places, trees barely grow, in other places leaves are off the trees and the grass is dead or covered with snow. In the mountains, 7,000 ft above sea level, surrounded by rocks and peaks there are no indicators and nothing on "Vern's list" is present to help me. As well across a valley shooting down at an angle, again, I have to understand that friction changes as the wind is impacted by the ground, which is now sticking up into the sky. At Thunder Ranch we watched a bullet get blown 10ft over a target by a sudden updraft hitting the opposite hillside. No tree moving will demonstrate that, we happened to see it because the snow was falling, but without the aid of snow ???

Science and Art collide with wind and for a new shooter or one wanting to understand the early stages of their training, the best chance of success lies with making a guess and checking that guess against a meter, and then understanding the bullet lives well above the ground and as your rise the wind speed increase at least 2 MPH or more the higher the bullet goes.

The smartest thing people can do is "Believe the Bullet" you have to understand the bullet will give 100% of the information necessary to make a second shot hit, and in most cases there is a 3 to 5 second honeymoon period where, if the shooter is straight behind the rifle, driving it correctly, and they can follow up within that honeymoon they will put the target down. you can dick up the range, you can dick up the wind, and if that happens, if you spot your own shot, you can fix it within that 3 to 5 seconds. They idea you can take anyone, drop them off anywhere in the world and expect a 1st round hit at 1000 yards under any conditions is not realistic, but you can expect them to see the results of their shot and fix it, which is the mark of a true professional and is skill relished by many around the world.

What happens is people put a number in their head and begin to second guess themselves and don't listen the bullet, the bullet does not lie unless you feed it bad information. The internal fight happens all the time with shooters, they see their shot missed and then shoot in the exact same place expecting a different result.

A 1MPH wind will move a 175gr 308 roughly 10" at 1000 yards, being able to guess the wind looking at a leave blowing 800 meters away within 1 MPH is not practical... you can estimate it, but "reading a leave" is like reading your fortune, nothing but a whole lot but generalities that are mostly right, but have nothing to do with anything.

Dope the wind at the shooter, because hoping or waiting for a downrange indicator to be present or appear maybe a losing proposition... If you use a meter to verify your estimation, you'll begin to build a foundation for reading the wind, or at least it will give you can understanding of what it means when you do see it move objects within your area, but relying on its accuracy within 2MPH, its not really so good by themselves, it must be combined with something a bit more scientific.

Above all else, shoot in the wind every chance you get, no matter how strong, take the time and engage it and believe the bullet.
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

Another great post... Thank you. While we're sort of on the subject, lets talk a bit about those Kestrel meters. I have never used one before, but just ordered one. Can anyone give me some advice concerning the proper way to use it?

Thanks
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

Right on. Also, this 'Vern's list' looks a lot like the standard Beaufort Wind Scale.
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

Something else to consider, a lot of higher speed crowd only actively works at night. So reading conditions in under NV is not as easy without a foundation to draw from.

Another factor, violent early morning Dew Storms that cover everything with moisture, when this happens, things tend to not give you an accurate reading of the conditions because the property of the indicator has now changed.

There is lot to consider, it's not as simple as saying grass blowing = X MPH. Practice feeling it, and then check your meter. Understand, on my home court, I barely touch a meter, but almost always carry it. I usually can dope the same thing on any given day and be on steel with that number. But believe me if I go to shoot somewhere else, I'll have a meter and then use what I know to dope the wind, based off that average baseline I take at the new location.
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

Good post LL, and it ilustrates well the fact that wind can be a bitch. Even in the quick follow up shot of a Professional, one must expect the possibility of the wind being different shot to shot.

Trusting what the bullet tells you is definately a necessity and the best way to correct.

Perhaps I should have typed more when I made my initial statement:
For me, I prefer to use mirage when available. By using the focus/parallax correction on my scope I like to read what the mirage is doing for near, mid and far ranges on the way to the target and adapt that information to try to decide where the strongest wind lies, and what affect I believe that will have on my round.

I stand by my statement however, that elevation is science, and wind is voodoo!
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .308Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another great post... Thank you. While we're sort of on the subject, lets talk a bit about those Kestrel meters. I have never used one before, but just ordered one. Can anyone give me some advice concerning the proper way to use it?

Thanks</div></div>

Lindy has a great article on setting up your meter for Density Altitude.

http://www.arcanamavens.com/LBSFiles/Shooting/Downloads/Baro/
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The idea you can take anyone, drop them off anywhere in the world and expect a 1st round hit at 1000 yards under any conditions is not realistic, but you can expect them to see the results of their shot and fix it, which is the mark of a true professional and is skill relished by many around the world.
</div></div>

That is the most well written thing here!

It is my experience you can have a fancy meter, GPS, whatever you want - but if you can't read the wind at each RANGE to that 1000 yards and "SWAG" that and make adjustments on the second shot - you'll have to take a lot of shots.

But Frank again is right - shoot at KD22 at Ft Lewis - the winds cross right to left at 5-10mph, but halfway down they are 15-20mph left to right, and maybe 10-20mph right to left at the target - it's crazy.

I was easily 15 feet to the right, two targets over!

One adjustment and I was in the 10 ring.

So far as what Frank said above - I can get back on the rifle at 700+ yards and watch impact. Under 600 not so much, bullet is too fast.

Case in point - *Redman and I were shooting at about 813 yards on an 18" wide target. I saw the rounds hitting a bit high (My bullet is faster than the BDC), made my adjustment by watching it impact the top of the chimney stack. While out with DMCI a few years ago shooting at about 700 yards I could not see my bullet impact - maybe terrain maybe that I was using a faster bullet.


I like the high tech stuff for proving your own guestimates but I still believe that history shows you can learn it and get the second shot right on...
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

I feel a brief lecture on fundamentals coming on....
wink.gif
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

Being new to long range shooting, this is some really good stuff you guys.

Thanks for sharing,

-Pat
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

"I like the high tech stuff for proving your own guestimates but I still believe that history shows you can learn it and get the second shot right on..."

Kestrels are a wonderful tool for telling you what the wind is doing at the shooter and what Frank posted is right on. But you have to keep in mind that "murphy" is in your pack. Kestrels can go down when the rounds still need to go down range.
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

As one that pretty much only shoots in areas that look about like this:(shooting position is the clearing on the hill 938 yrds away)

9_12_09011.jpg



I would have to say - shoot in a variety of different places. Wind seasonally flows in a fairly consistent direction and speed while the physical land forms are constants. I think you can flatten the learning curve a bit if you see more conditions and terrain.

Where I am you can hear wind, but you can not always see much evidence of it b/c it takes a big wind to move Fir branches. Grasses at the base are not reliable indicators. What is going on at the shooting position means next to nothing b/c of the effects of the wind colliding with the terrain. As LL stated - think of wind as water. In this location there are 6 separate land contours that may have an impact on wind. SWAG and reading mirage 2/3s of the distance + mirage at the target is really what you have to work with.

Good luck
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

edgewaterBut you have to keep in mind that "murphy" is in your pack. Kestrels can go down when the rounds still need to go down range. [/quote said:
That's my point exactly, never rely on technology - good point!!
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

it always makes me laugh when people claim, "Technology will fail you when you most need it..." well my experience has been, it's 99% operator error, like "YOU" didn't change the batteries, because, mostly they don't just die, well unless it's freezing cold or something. But as much time as mine gets used, and as hard on stuff as I am, my original Kestrel is still running strong. In fact I have seen 10X more scopes go down than Kestrel breaks, so if you're playing the odds, you better have a spare scope along with your spare batteries because scopes break constantly.

But if you look, I clearly said, Guess first, check your estimate on the Kestrel to build a foundation for your wind estimation training, so if your Kestrel falls out of your pack, or gets run over by a Humvee, then you still have your guess to work with, which is better than nothing, providing your fundamentals are good because your spotter might get the flu, or eat something bad and have the shits right when you most need him.
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

I'm just old school, more equipment is more to forget, if I forget to pack a wind meter, GPS, and laser rangefinder (and toilet paper obviously LOL) and have no backup plan then I'm screwed
smile.gif


I've shot my entire life without one, they are cool lil units just haven't gotten around to getting one..
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

Well it's my new age thinking that people in the past have relied too heavily on the Spotter to the job for them, instead of training to spot their own shots.

Targets being marked in the butts, shooters not having a clue where they impacted and being taught to "Call the Shot" as in, where "were" the sights when the trigger broke. Well, I can tell you where the sights are the whole time and I can see my impacts because I don't lose time. I don't work under the assumption I will lose sight picture during recoil, so I don't and I see where my sights are during the entire shot and can see my impacts downrange.

A lot of things change, Machining tolerances are better, hence we have improved accuracy, better bullets, better powders, I take advantage of them when possible. Same thing with electronics, I like Lasers, I like PDAs and Ballistic programs. I use Front Focal Plane scopes, with a Mil based reticle for more than just ranging, magazine fed bolt actions, with more than a 5 round capacity, in fact, I have an AAR in front of me, 8 KIA in one sitting, the shooter didn't stop at 3 shots from his location, why because he was able to shoot all of them, and didn't leave food on the table.

I don't forget my PDA, or my Kestrel, nor my laser because it's part of my kit. It would be like forgetting my shoes, it just doesn't happen, I grab my bag and know it's in there... in fact I have 3 kestrels just so I can have one in more than one pack.

it's called Life and it progresses, so why not embrace it.

And if you think it doesn't help, trust me it does and does well, cause I can get called out and step up with nothing and succeed, which is why you see me shooting in video after video, mistakes and all, I shoot in front of students too, not afraid to miss here or there, because only those who don't shoot, don't miss... it called being practical, being objective. I don't rely on one method, I embrace many different ways of skinning this cat, and can usually weed through the bullshit pretty quickly because the range is only 25 yards away from my door, and I'm not afraid to shoot in a 25 to 35 MPH wind, or shoot when its raining, or from a fucked up position, other than prone, again something that makes all the difference.

So, go sell the old school ways to someone else, because I like to work smarter not harder.

As they told us in Sniper School, <span style="font-weight: bold">it's good to be hard, hard to be smart. </span>
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

I have a range setup on a field road that goes out to 1100 yards and across about 6 fields of wheat. Summer time makes excellent practice time
smile.gif
I then can go up in the hills about 2 miles away and practice on varying terrain watching the grass. Makes for excellent day when I ever I get the time to do so. Also makes for plenty of reloading time afterward.
I use kestrel, pda with lex talus, oheler chrony, swaro laser, and what ever else I can use to take out the unknowns. They are learning and used tools. I do try to do it the "old school" way to keep the "instinct" of calling the shoot. In everything it is good to know when that just can't be right. Operator on error on my part with the wrong info entered can offten be caught with that "instinct" of the call. With all this it is the air between me and the target that kicks my butt.
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

A fool would depend solely on technology and/or techniques which might not be available when it came time to make the shot - but it would take a bigger fool not to use better technology when it's available.

I used to do a lot of sailing, with multiple GPS sets on the boat. I also learned how to use a sextant and reduce the sights. In addition, I studied a book entitled <span style="font-style: italic">Emergency Navigation</span> about how to proceed if one had to without all that.

A prudent shooter will use what he can, and will have a plan for what to do when the technology fails.
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

I intend to add more tech to my shooting. As LL and other have pointed out - why wouldn't you use it? Only fun when you make hits - right?


Good luck
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

so....the moral of the story is



if you got the technology....bring it

,.....also to include wetting your finger and stab it in the air !
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you got the technology....bring it

,.....also to include wetting your finger and stab it in the air !</div></div>

On a recent hunt I was sitting there looking at my Kestrel and I pulled some grass and threw it in the air to verify direction a little better. Buddy that was hunting with me said "I've never seen anyone do that for real and have a clue what it does" I'm not sure I did either, but he thought it looked good.
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

Yes, but did you make the shot or did you miss?


I've seen guys at matches with squeeze bottles of chalk. Does that count as technology?
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

Coming from a sailing background, I can say I relate with everything that Lindy stated above. Also learned the sextant and have had to use it when a Loran system went down on a crossing. I feel very fortunate that I was schooled on the water and it has helped me with reading currents and winds. Gear is great, I have and utilize a PDA and Kestrel but I have to say, I rarely use them. At my home range, the wind at the shooter means very little. The shooting lane opens up further down range and usually the winds are stronger down range than they are at the shooter. Typically I'll see winds from 3 different directions and at varying speeds. Make my best educated guess based upon environmental conditions that I can see, fire and correct off the bullet impact.
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

This post has been a very enlightening discussion. I am always looking to learn more about reading the wind.

It always makes me laugh when someone talks about electronics failing. The truth for the great majority of people on here is that if their electronics failed nothing would happen. At the most you might miss an animal or miss a shot in a competition. There is also the fallacy that just because something is electronic it is inherently less reliable then a mechanical device. You are carrying around a rifle with a sight that is made of glass.

I remember being taught land navigation with a compass and map. It took what amounted to several weeks of practice to become moderately proficient. I was pissed the first time I picked up a GPS. I was able to pick up and learn a gps in 30 minutes and be more accurate that ever I was with a map and compass. With a map and compass we would try to find a several foot pole sticking out of the ground painted bright colors. With a gps I can find hidden film canisters (geocache). I think this is very similar to using a range finder versus mil dots. Mil dots will work but are relying on the size of an object that you may or may not know the exact size of. You then have to do a calculation or use a mil dot master. A range finder wont always work but when it does it is undoubtedly easier, faster, and more accurate.

For the argument that batteries go dead: guns can run out of ammo thats why you bring extra.
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">......I pulled some grass and threw it in the air to verify direction a little better. Buddy that was hunting with me said "I've never seen anyone do that for real and have a clue what it does" I'm not sure I did either, but he thought it looked good. </div></div>

That's funny because I usually do pull some grass and drop it to gauge how far the wind carries it and in what direction. You can look at the angle the grass falls at and get a rough idea. I use that in conjunction with what the wind feels like on my face to get a guesstimate of the windspeed and direction at the firing line. I then look at what the veg at the firing line is doing and compare that to downrange. When I am done with all that I break out the Kestrel and check. Lately I have been having a good run and get within a couple mph. The harder the wind blows the harder it is to guesstimate this way.

I agree that technology is nice. I love rangefinders, wind meters, and ballistic computers are the shit, but I also practice running it cold with no tech. There is a large amount of satisfaction to be gained from being able to make the hit based solely on your internal computer.
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> - shoot at KD22 at Ft Lewis - the winds cross right to left at 5-10mph, but halfway down they are 15-20mph left to right, and maybe 10-20mph right to left at the target - it's crazy.

I was easily 15 feet to the right, two targets over!

One adjustment and I was in the 10 ring.

</div></div>

Curious, what cartridge/bullet were you using and how far (don't know KD22) and how much wind did you put on the rifle that you missed the target by 15 feet with the first shot? That is a lot of clicks to get inside the 10 ring on the second shot.

Must be some wicked winds.

Years ago when I shot long range with my service rifle at Camp Bullis on a couple of occassions I missed the scoring ring on the first shot at 1K using 80 grain VLDs. It is easy to do. However, if I were to miss paper by 15 ft I will be laughing so I hard in disbelief that I may not be able to concentrate on the next shot....
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

Using the electronics will not guarantee anything, any more than any other means or method of developing an aiming correction.

LL is perfectly right, the bullet never lies.

First round hits are possible, even likely for some, but for me and a lot of folks like myself, they are the stuff of motion pictures.

I shot a 200yd match yesterday. At a known SR distance, with the same dope on the rifle and the same ammo; the first round out of the clean bore was four inches high and right. Six rounds and two sight corrections later, the rifle was shooting to a consistent 1MOA pattern, centered in the 2" V ring.

That's the reality, it was repeated up and down the line among all ten of us shooters; and fact is, that wasn't unusual performance for real-world match shooting.

I don't shoot tactical UKD matches, and I my hat is off to those who do it and do it well.

Greg
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

Feel the wind- At the shooter you can get what direction it is blowing from, straight in your face, cheek, from the side? How hard, give your best guess as to how fast it is blowing where you are at. Use your equipment (kestrel) and check yourself.

Look down range- Compare what you feel to what you see down the range, are there any cross winds, what are the trees and grass doing? If the look the same, great! If not what is different?

Guage what you feel and see- Split the difference if you have to, you will figure out what your "fudge factor" is and will learn to adjust.

I used to have a Kestrel but I don't know what I did with it, think I let someone borrow it but I don't really need it and during most matches and in combat you rarely have time to whip it out while you are getting ready to shoot. You need to do it when you are setting up shop, one of those things you do like set up the hide, make a range card, set the watch n obs log, make comm checks. You might break it out every hour but if you have it out and sitting it is just one more thing to pack up when you are trying to get out and you might just leave it behind if it ain't dummy corded to you. I really don't miss it, probably left it at the freaking range somewhere!!
 
Re: The Art Of Calling Wind.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hogstooth</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> but if you have it out and sitting it is just one more thing to pack up when you are trying to get out and you might just leave it behind if it ain't dummy corded to you. I really don't miss it, probably left it at the freaking range somewhere!! </div></div>

That's why I dummy cord mine to my ruck. I did many pushups when I was a PIG. I learned the error of my target indicator ways. Now drop and give me 25 and 5 Sniper!
wink.gif