The Correct Balance

[Gettingbetter]

Constantly learning and trying new things, I find myself wondering if the groups and velocities that I am shooting are as good as they are going to get or do I still search for the perfect load. Ive just purchased my newest precision rifle in 6.5 creedmoor and am getting less than half inch groups at 100 (I have not moved out to further distances yet because I have been focusing more on Extreme Spreads) but staying around the low 2715 fps range with H4350 at 41.4 grains. I have an ES of 8 and Sd of 5. Once I get to around 42.3 grains, I start getting around 2830 fps with ES of around 22 and SD of 8. These groups are around 1". There is another node around the 42.8 grain range that I have not tried reloading a group for yet. With that being said, I have not seen any signs of over pressure. I know everyone has there own way of doing things but for shooting PRS Matches, what velocities, groupings, ES, and Sd should i be striving for?

 

[EN2722]

My vote is run what you have with a velocity of 2715 with a ES of 8 and SDs of 5...

How many shots are in that data pool?

 

[ma smith]

what is barrel length and bullet wt

 

[Huskydriver]

Constantly learning and trying new things, I find myself wondering if the groups and velocities that I am shooting are as good as they are going to get or do I still search for the perfect load. Ive just purchased my newest precision rifle in 6.5 creedmoor and am getting less than half inch groups at 100 (I have not moved out to further distances yet because I have been focusing more on Extreme Spreads) but staying around the low 2715 fps range with H4350 at 41.4 grains. I have an ES of 8 and Sd of 5. Once I get to around 42.3 grains, I start getting around 2830 fps with ES of around 22 and SD of 8. These groups are around 1". There is another node around the 42.8 grain range that I have not tried reloading a group for yet. With that being said, I have not seen any signs of over pressure. I know everyone has there own way of doing things but for shooting PRS Matches, what velocities, groupings, ES, and Sd should i be striving for?

How are you measuring velocity?

 

[Gettingbetter]

My vote is run what you have with a velocity of 2715 with a ES of 8 and SDs of 5...

How many shots are in that data pool?

3 separate groups of 5 rounds.

 

[Gettingbetter]

what is barrel length and bullet wt

26” Bartlein Barrel. 140 grain Nosler RDF

 

[Gettingbetter]

For PRS, if you have single digit es/sd and small groups at 100, I say run it at 2715.

Unless there’s some thing weird going on. Which is what these other questions are getting at.

I’ve just seen how some shooters will accept less accuracy to max out velocities. If I’m trying to squeeze the extra 100 - 150 FPS my ES and SD spread out. So do I try a different powder to achieve this or just roll with what I have.

 

[Gettingbetter]

How are you measuring velocity?

Measuring velocities with LabRadar

 

[KeithStone]

Following

 

[Precision Underground]

It’s very hard to consistently shoot under .4-5 moa. Your load may be a .2-3 load but the amount of deviation it takes in the barrel to go from .2 to .5 is ridiculously small. Unless you just want to shoot benchrest my thoughts are that .5 is the baseline for a load in an accurate rifle. I have rifles that shoot under that but I’m not going to spend time and money to try to go from .5 to .3. Once you try to go below .5 the returns diminish greatly. You can waste a lot of time passing by “the” load because of slightly different cheek pressure between shots.

I’d say your time would be much better spent gathering data and tweaking loads at distance. This will give you valuable data while also revealing any issues with your load/technique. You may find that your .5 load at 100 goes to .3 at 500. This will mean that YOU, not your load, got better.

Another thing to consider is the sensitivity of your load. I’d rather run a load that will shoot .5moa within a .5 grain window than a load that shoots .3 MOA in a .2 grain window. The catch to this Is that your have to, 1) be able shoot/call your shots good enough to know/trust this, and 2) you have to know how to set up/interpret your test in a way that leads you to it. I’d bet that 85% of reloaders are not shooting load tests round robin and are simply picking the best group when choosing a charge from a test target.

 

[Gettingbetter]

It’s very hard to consistently shoot under .4-5 moa. Your load may be a .2-3 load but the amount of deviation it takes in the barrel to go from .2 to .5 is ridiculously small. Unless you just want to shoot benchrest my thoughts are that .5 is the baseline for a load in an accurate rifle. I have rifles that shoot under that but I’m not going to spend time and money to try to go from .5 to .3. Once you try to go below .5 the returns diminish greatly. You can waste a lot of time passing by “the” load because of slightly different cheek pressure between shots.

I’d say your time would be much better spent gathering data and tweaking loads at distance. This will give you valuable data while also revealing any issues with your load/technique. You may find that your .5 load at 100 goes to .3 at 500. This will mean that YOU, not your load, got better.

Another thing to consider is the sensitivity of your load. I’d rather run a load that will shoot .5moa within a .5 grain window than a load that shoots .3 MOA in a .2 grain window. The catch to this Is that your have to, 1) be able shoot/call your shots good enough to know/trust this, and 2) you have to know how to set up/interpret your test in a way that leads you to it. I’d bet that 85% of reloaders are not shooting load tests round robin and are simply picking the best group when choosing a charge from a test target.

Very good insight. I will know in a couple of days what my load development is doing at 300-500. Im very much fine with anything .5 MOA or better but trying to squeeze the most velocity out of that .5 MOA without letting it spread out. I agree with trying to find a round that has .5 MOA or better with a larger grain window. I performed a 10 round "Ladder Test" and found the flat spots where my windows occurred. I loaded the middle of those windows and shot two 5 round groups measuring group size and velocity changes and that is how I cam up with the data in the original post.