The Entitlement of Customers and Vendors

[-Nick-]

We all have Vendors we like. Vendors that have given us great customer service, great products, sponsor the community, and make spending the ass ton of money we do not so painful. We love them and we give them all our business. But... when did our experiences negate another persons? What makes a Vendor infallible and perfect? When does the Vendor become no longer accountable to all their new customers based upon previous transactions? When do Vendors, or their employees, become incapable of having a bad day?

We all know that customer. The one that has never shot a rifle in their life but purchase a $3K rifle with .5 moa guarantee then bitches that it's crap because they get 1 1/2" groups. Then there's that guy who bought a scope and somehow managed to barely drop it (out of a 40mph moving truck down the side of a 200 yard granite face slope) and when the bell gets dented they're angry that the Vendor needs a couple weeks to do the warranty replacement.

The fact is customer service is a two-way street, but as of lately it's become one-sided here. You have the vendors and their entourage... and then you have anyone who complains or expresses dissatisfaction with those vendors being met by that angry mob who assaults the offended party and tries to invalidate ANY negative experience they had as the customers fault. Why? Because they've never had a problem. They've never been offended. Vendor X has dropped $$$ everywhere at matches so there's no way they could have committed any wrong. They rally their pitchforks and torches and proceed to manipulate fault all the while trying to convince the customer that if they drown to death their innocent but if they continue to float they'll be stoned further.

Fact is the Vendors are people, and as such they can make mistakes. Just because that Vendor has done everyone else right in the past does not relieve them of the obligation to continue to do so in the future or alleviate them of correcting mistakes. It also does not place obligation on the customer to exhaust every form of communication to include email, phone, private message, Morse code, smoke signal, and then if all else fails to simply wait it out. Vendors are a Business and as such should be attentive to it. No one should have to leave multiple voice mails and multiple emails in the vague hope of getting call back. Yes, there will always be some customers that can't be pleased and some that are out to get something for nothing, but... There will also be those that do have an honest bad experience and those that were treated poorly whether by intent, error, or misunderstanding. Fact is the Shooting Community needs ALL the supporters it can get and should encourage ALL to participate. But, when clicks of fan boys and mobs of Vendor drinking buddies start to swarm those offended parties and dismiss their experience as unworthy of notice then you are no longer providing friendly advice and assisting, but in fact you are discouraging others from a sport and giving the appearance of an elitist group that wants nothing more than to stay within their own circle jerk. It doesn't just stay within the forums either but carries itself into the field at matches and gatherings. It's one thing to be united... it's entirely different when you become nothing more than a drunken mob...

 

[crumpmd]

Re: The Entitlement of Customers and Vendors

I have had that experience on this forum. But, I said what I wanted to say. Provided pictures. And left it at that.
I did not respond to the fanboys who stated their guy could do no wrong. The customer service did not improve. I have not bought kit from that vendor in 3 years now. And I buy quite a bit of stuff for the rifles I build.
If you have something to say, say it. And quit checking the thread every thirty seconds to see if somebody disagrees.
Frank allows us to relate out experiences with vendors good and bad. But he does not allow bashing, name-calling ect.... Just put it out there and leave it.

 

[Finris]

Re: The Entitlement of Customers and Vendors

Hey, I tried to buy something from a vender here on this site. I sent and e-mail. I sent my number and every thing I could to buy his I have a limited number of these and if you post you'll take one or several I'll get back to you. Well I have never heard. The vendor goes on my list, of I don't do business with him. I don't drop the cash that Crump MD does on the basis he does. But when I do I go to people who have gotten it right by me. Lesson learned and if you make them aware and they don't do you right, just put them on that never again list.

 

[Slapchop]

Re: The Entitlement of Customers and Vendors

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We all have Vendors we like. Vendors that have given us great customer service, great products, sponsor the community, and make spending the ass ton of money we do not so painful. We love them and we give them all our business. But... when did our experiences negate another persons? What makes a Vendor infallible and perfect? When does the Vendor become no longer accountable to all their new customers based upon previous transactions? When do Vendors, or their employees, become incapable of having a bad day?

We all know that customer. The one that has never shot a rifle in their life but purchase a $3K rifle with .5 moa guarantee then bitches that it's crap because they get 1 1/2" groups. Then there's that guy who bought a scope and somehow managed to barely drop it (out of a 40mph moving truck down the side of a 200 yard granite face slope) and when the bell gets dented they're angry that the Vendor needs a couple weeks to do the warranty replacement.

The fact is customer service is a two-way street, but as of lately it's become one-sided here. You have the vendors and their entourage... and then you have anyone who complains or expresses dissatisfaction with those vendors being met by that angry mob who assaults the offended party and tries to invalidate ANY negative experience they had as the customers fault. Why? Because they've never had a problem. They've never been offended. Vendor X has dropped $$$ everywhere at matches so there's no way they could have committed any wrong. They rally their pitchforks and torches and proceed to manipulate fault all the while trying to convince the customer that if they drown to death their innocent but if they continue to float they'll be stoned further.

Fact is the Vendors are people, and as such they can make mistakes. Just because that Vendor has done everyone else right in the past does not relieve them of the obligation to continue to do so in the future or alleviate them of correcting mistakes. It also does not place obligation on the customer to exhaust every form of communication to include email, phone, private message, Morse code, smoke signal, and then if all else fails to simply wait it out. Vendors are a Business and as such should be attentive to it. No one should have to leave multiple voice mails and multiple emails in the vague hope of getting call back. Yes, there will always be some customers that can't be pleased and some that are out to get something for nothing, but... There will also be those that do have an honest bad experience and those that were treated poorly whether by intent, error, or misunderstanding. Fact is the Shooting Community needs ALL the supporters it can get and should encourage ALL to participate. But, when clicks of fan boys and mobs of Vendor drinking buddies start to swarm those offended parties and dismiss their experience as unworthy of notice then you are no longer providing friendly advice and assisting, but in fact you are discouraging others from a sport and giving the appearance of an elitist group that wants nothing more than to stay within their own circle jerk. It doesn't just stay within the forums either but carries itself into the field at matches and gatherings. It's one thing to be united... it's entirely different when you become nothing more than a drunken mob...
</div></div>

^^^THIS^^^ is one of the main reasons why a once reputable vendor/gunsmith will turn to shit and begin to produce a less than stellar product with even worse customer service. When the customer stops holding these people accountable they begin to think that their shit don't stink and lose track of what's important which at the end of the day is always the customer.

It always amazes me and makes me laugh how some people on here treat vendors as if they were Gods. Always funny is the incessantly feverish "thanking" by potential customers for a reply by a vendor to a question about their product. The vendors should be thanking US, the customer for inquiring about THEIR product. After all, its how THEY pay their rent. But hey, it is what it is. There are gonna be groupies/fanboys in every circle.

Great post.

 

[E. Bryant]

Re: The Entitlement of Customers and Vendors

I think there are some easily-identifiable problems from all parties involved in many of these complaints:

1) Customers do indeed have a sense of entitlement. There are certainly very serious problems that involve the theft of money or failure to meet service/repair commitments, but some people want to act as if every delay in fulfillment is the moral equivalent of mass fraud. In the case of never-ending backorders, sometimes you just need to ask for your money back and move on without pitching a bitch.

2) Retailers and distributors who cannot provide accurate estimates of delivery timing shouldn't attempt to do so, because in most cases those estimates are more like guesses and will just piss off the customer. If something is not in stock, then it would be extremely helpful to communicate this to the customer - preferably prior to the sale (I hear that these new-fangled computers can do wonderful things to track inventory in near-real-time), but if that is not possible, then a follow-up needs to be made in a timely manner (preferably by the next business day, and without prompting from the customer). "Under-promise and over-deliver" needs to be the MO when it comes to making commitments.

3) Manufacturers need to do a better job of making product available to the market. Maybe instead of offering several hundred different product varieties - of which perhaps a dozen or so are actually stocked in any significant quantity - it would be better to offer a smaller selection of products that are then made in sufficient numbers. We can also take this criticism and apply it to the folks in area #2; listing a million SKUs in your catalog potentially does more harm than good if you are only willing to stock a small fraction of what you claim to offer. If you don't like carrying inventory, perhaps you need to get out of the retail game.

4) The peanut gallery that forms around complaint threads typically has a signal:noise ratio that ranges from "completely useless" to "downright obnoxious". You have the folks who think that their good experience with [Vendor X] totally negates anyone's poor experience. You know - "I've ordered twice from this vendor with no problems, and thus it's a statistical impossibility that they were at fault in your situation". You've got the folks who want to jump in and tell the offended party the exact level of offense that is allowed for the situation ("I lost a fingertip in a tractor accident, and that was way worse than what you're complaining about!"). Then you've got the folks who jump in just to fan the flames. These folks can usually be identified by an absurdly high post count and the complete inability to form a grammatically-correct sentence.

Having a tightly-moderated forum for vendor transactions might be a good way to clean up the other parts of the board, but that sort of subsection would take a lot of effort to maintain.

 

[rdinak]

Re: The Entitlement of Customers and Vendors

I have seen above and beyond customer service by some of the gunsmith's frequently talked about on this site. And then I narrowly got one rifle back from one of the guys's that went to the dark side. Shortly there after I started reading notes that would be a concern if the guy still had my rifle..and then of people that were ripped off.

If some of these post were not allowed, how would any know when a business with a once strong reputation was starting to slide..sadly it happens

 

[Sapper524]

Re: The Entitlement of Customers and Vendors

In my experience the small vendor that comes up with a quality product that fills a void. He R&D's said product himself or with a small circle of trusted shooters. Product is released and the orders flow in. This product and/or modification puts said vendor on the "map". Now this vendor has a more capital to expand. It was a one man show or small shop with a few employees before and now to R&D another product and keep up with demand on current product more staff is hired. Soon said vendor needs a bigger shop. Transistion to bigger shop and some delays and a few mix ups happen. One of the customers that feels "entitled" to flawless customer service and perfection during this transition is outraged. The flamming starts and we all know where it goes from there.

This example is NOT a reflection of any specific company but the "trend" I see in a lot of industries. I know guys who think waiting more than a week for a product is unthinkable ... and I know guys who wait 2 years

I have had great CS and horrible CS ... you be reasonalble and give them a chance to correct the problem in a timely manner. But the cycle of growing pains and the line drawn between the Customer and Vendor does make for interesting debate.

I think the issue that leads to a lot of the problems is the way the industry as a whole has trended. This also is due to the internet and instant info ... prototypes released online or at shot ... the best new tacticool item ... must have it. Its a PROTOTYPE and pre-orders are funding production and some final R&D, prolly even helping determine how big of an initial order to make. This means you WAIT ... but the knowledge of the super cool new item makes people get wacky. The SS 5-20 Group Buy comes to mind. Im suprised they did it again for the 1-6 ... very cool they did but the headache from the last one had to last for months.

The smith I use is a one man shop ... If I want a rifle built from the action up ... I know its gonna be a LEAST a year. Walking in the door and wanting a rebarrel and new brake in a week .... so you think that every other customer that is waiting for work from this vendor/smith is LESS important than you and you should be moved to the front of the line. If thats your point of view ... your part of the problem ...

*** Ramble off ***

good thread

 

[no1special]

Re: The Entitlement of Customers and Vendors

i work in the trade, plus shoot service rifle, rimfire, cmp vintage sniper, carbine, and garand, and now f t/r competitions. the manufacturers from big to small, are very poor at communicating delivery dates.they do not tell wholesalers about delivery so the wholesalers cannot tell the retailers. henry is the ONLY manufacturer that sent a letter out to the trade admitting a delivery problem in the 12 years i have worked in the business. this, unfortunately is the way things are, so get used to it. when something is "custom" any completion date given is just a "mirage" and should be at the minimum doubled, if not tripled. once again get used to it. the firearms industry, for all it importance to us is a very small niche industry and for every ruger, s&w, browning, colt size company there are dozens of "one man" shops. to them it is when it is done, it is done. they are doing their best. they too may be at the mercy of their supply chain, see above.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: The Entitlement of Customers and Vendors

Let's discuss communication then. It begins with understanding what's being said and even WRITTEN to begin with. My OP had to do with more than just "timelines" and delivery dates. It has to do with poor customer service experiences and the masses that justify it simply based on previous experience and product. It has to do with Vendors that have forgotten who the Customer is and they think they're above answering to those that are paying for it.

We all know that we can expect to wait for certain items when there is no available stock, the item isn't released yet, or it relates to a service being performed. A good vendor makes the client completely aware of those circumstances and follows up with the customer when it's pushed out beyond expected. A bad customer doesn't heed those expectations and will even act as if they were unaware when it was laid out clear as day. I'm talking about those that not only over promise deadlines, but those that think they don't have to communicate in a timely fashion with the client, especially when money has been payed up front. Would you purchase a car up front then think it was ok if the dealership didn't respond for a week to your calls or emails a month after they promised delivery? The customer should not have to beg for a response, especially when they payed up front. And the Vendors past performance does not negate their accountability to their clients both present and future. The Vendors issues with suppliers, shippers, or whatever are not the fault of the customer and the customer did not pay for those services... They paid for the product/service of the Vendor! It's called passing the buck when a business refuses to take responsibility based on someone else's lack of follow through. That applies even more so to drop shippers. If you can't deliver as promised then you are accountable for being unable to make said promise. And just because on client is willing to overlook extended due dates and late delivery based upon their experience does not mean that every client should have to do such. That's like saying... "I had to deal with it, and it didn't bother me, so you should too or else your a (insert label)." It get's labeled as whining, crying, complaining, wearing panties, playing with dolls, or whatever complex they arrive at which is easy enough when it's not their money and they're not on the receiving end.

Fact is they are a business and accountable to all clients. I don't give a shit how much they put on someone elses prize table or who they've done right when they're not delivering what I or anyone else for that fact paid for. And to the drooling tools that run to the rescue of them at every opportunity to protect their would be honor... If you have to protect their honor then maybe you should ask yourself why? If their Customer Service was everything they thought it to be then why do you need to defend them?

 

[-Nick-]

Re: The Entitlement of Customers and Vendors

Here's a good example...

Someone had purchased a clamp mount for a bipod made by a "Manufacturing God" of the shooting community from a well known Hide Vendor. After receiving the mount and placing it on the rail the buyer noticed it was extremely loose and had excessive slop in the fit. The buyer followed the directions and tried to tighten the mount fit but to no avail. The buyer contacted the Vendor telling them the issue with the clamp mount. The Vendors response... "Ship it back to me(on your dime) and I'll refund your money minus the 20% restocking fee." When the buyer told others here about the experience he was blasted with every excuse from there must have been something wrong with his rail system to others who flat out accused the buyer of lying about the whole incident because that Vendor had always treated them right in the past so the buyer must be lying about it. The buyer later watched that same Vendor come on here and give himself praise for how he takes care of his customers and always does the right thing. How he stands by his products and services without fail. The buyer also witnessed the same "Manufacturing God" give testimony to all his products construction and how if something failed it was likely the users fault... because obviously his products are perfect and could never have flaws or mistakes. Both the Vendor and the "Manufacturing God" have their heads so far up their own asses now that they're apparently incapable and immune to apology or fault. Just imagine if everyone like say Bank Of America or the Government had the same attitude... oh wait... they do...

 

[Mike]

Re: The Entitlement of Customers and Vendors

Let me ask where the check and balance system is.

So what is to stop a customer from "preying" on a vendor? When a supposed slighted customer comes here with the sole intent of lambasting a vendor, who or how is the interest of the vendor protected? Sure, I'll be the first to say that vendors can make mistakes, and that customers can get screwed. But what happens when someone is trying to screw a vendor? I've seen that numerous times here. Do we rely completely on the vendor clearing his own name?

Where is the preservation of the vendor's dignity? Or does it lie solely on the vendors shoulders?

 

[-Nick-]

Re: The Entitlement of Customers and Vendors

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let me ask where the check and balance system is.

So what is to stop a customer from "preying" on a vendor? When a supposed slighted customer comes here with the sole intent of lambasting a vendor, who or how is the interest of the vendor protected? Sure, I'll be the first to say that vendors can make mistakes, and that customers can get screwed. But what happens when someone is trying to screw a vendor? I've seen that numerous times here. Do we rely completely on the vendor clearing his own name?

Where is the preservation of the vendor's dignity? Or does it lie solely on the vendors shoulders? </div></div>

I agree Mike, but as of late there have been numerous instances where someone has had justified complaints and been dismissed by the mob. It's one thing defend a vendor being attacked unfairly, but it's an entirely different story when the vendors groupies attack the customer when the Vendor clearly screwed up. And every time they do it they justify it with the same lame excuses... "That Vendor supports the industry... That vendor has always done us right... if it weren't for that vendor... blah blah blah". Here's a prime example...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: </div><div class="ubbcode-body">The problem I have with posts like this is that a company can do 1000 things right and nobody hears about it, but if they do one thing wrong it's blasted all over the internet and can hurt their business. Waiting is the name of the game in this hobby. If you dont have the patience for it then find something else to do. The better approach would've been to PM the vendor on here personally and allowed them a chance to fix it for you. You're not going to get anywhere in life with the kind of approach you're taking. </div></div>

The OP had called the company multiple times and was extremely patient considering after 2 months they told him they couldn't deliver what they sold him. The responder seriously told him even though he had called and emailed he should have pm'd them here first. And now if you have a bad experience it's because your not patient enough to wait until the Vendor feels like it so you should "find something else to do"? That's become the prescribed response by many now. "Don't say anything unless you've exhausted every communication option and bent over backwards to give the Vendor a chance to fix their fuck-up because after all it's the customers responsibility to take care of the Vendor."

 

[Early Cuyler]

Re: The Entitlement of Customers and Vendors

Broker, thanks for the post. This issue has bothered me here but I've mainly just ignored it.

Personally I think the negative posts and their million responses good and bad are helpful in their own way. The posts give potential buyers researching a given product or service such as smithing, bipods, scopes, etc. a good snapshot of what to expect quality and customer service-wise.

For instance, if Bob had shitty service after his scope's eyepiece fell off he can/should bring it to the community's attention. When Randy, Chris, Chuck, et. al. say THEIR experiences were great, a buyer can see that his chances are good that he'll be treated well. If Randy, Chris, Chuck, et. al. say their experience sucked, the buyer will know to avoid the company/product. The labeling of "whiners", "bitchers", etc. is useless except for a few cases where the buyer is being unreasonable.

I have dealt with a fair number of sponsors and vendors on here. For me all have gone above and beyond with none giving me unrealistic wait or lead times so far, haha. I enjoy this hobby, appreciate the community, and the contributions this site has made. Without an open and free discussion where people can bring up potential issues without fear of beratement the community as a whole will not be able to predict future issues,identify current issues, or fix the underlying problems of either one.

I will say in general that posters looking to post negative threads need to have thicker skins and people replying need to have more civility.

 

[Sapper524]

Re: The Entitlement of Customers and Vendors

Recently I had three different companies with custom products on order. None were off the shelf, pick and ship items. All were built to my specs as ordered. All 3 had issues and delays. Im dealing with custom work and paying top dollar for said itmes so I know these things can happen. Two of the items were delayed from original projected/promised/estimated/whatever date due to waiting on parts from a 3rd party to finish the item. The third arrived on time but has not built to the proper specs and had to be returned. We are talking about items ranging from $1k to $3k and have been ordered with expected waits from 3 months to a year. One item was from a small operation and the others from big companies. In all 3 cases I either contacted the vendor/manufacturer when required. One item was overnighted to me at no cost so I could use it that weekend at a match. Shipping was covered on the return of the out of spec item. Some would says thats good CS and others would have a hissy fit that they waited 8 months for a custom item costing $3500 and it was built wrong. I think the key is having realistic expectations. Yes companies that make a new wiz bang cool item and get orders that exceed their production causes problems.

The industry as a whole suffers from our societies need for instant gratification. While the internet is great for both the end user and the vendor ... its a double edge sword. With the interweb of knowledge people can price check on their phones and determine how much there local store is OMG ripping them off. They generally don't take the shipping cost into account or realize that supply and demand is just that. Life isn't FAIR ... Fair is a place you eat cotton candy and ride the Zipper. You CAN vote with your wallet.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: The Entitlement of Customers and Vendors

As a former business owner, I had a pretty straight policy on how I did business as to customer/my entitlement.

What the customer is entitled to:
Promt, superb service, superior product, and delivery within 3 days or less with zero damage to product as paid for.

If this didn't happen, I would make sure that the customer was satisfied with my offer(which was always the case, with one exception in five years)

What I the business owner is entitled to:
Honesty and Integrity
On time payment
Courtesy and manners
Explicit instructions on what you the customer need, want, would like to happen, etc

If I could not make this happen, then I was not the good businessman I thought I was and tried even harder to be the best. If a customer told me that a cigar or humidor was messed up, I replaced it, no questions asked because that is what I did. I always followed up with a phone call when required for most high priority or high cost accounts. To be the guy that insured each order was complete and delivered quickly and in time from orders of $45 to $6000 was my goal, and it was met very well.

One day I will reopen my little business in a true brick and mortar shop, with all the bells and whistles in only the highest style that can be found, you know, big leather club chairs, low tables, a pool table, darts, mix bar(BYOB), cigar lockers, walk in humidors, you know, the highest level of class...one day, say maybe ten or so years...

 

[-Nick-]

Re: The Entitlement of Customers and Vendors

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sapper524</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Recently I had three different companies with custom products on order. None were off the shelf, pick and ship items. All were built to my specs as ordered. All 3 had issues and delays. Im dealing with custom work and paying top dollar for said itmes so I know these things can happen. Two of the items were delayed from original projected/promised/estimated/whatever date due to waiting on parts from a 3rd party to finish the item. The third arrived on time but has not built to the proper specs and had to be returned. We are talking about items ranging from $1k to $3k and have been ordered with expected waits from 3 months to a year. One item was from a small operation and the others from big companies. In all 3 cases I either contacted the vendor/manufacturer when required. One item was overnighted to me at no cost so I could use it that weekend at a match. Shipping was covered on the return of the out of spec item. Some would says thats good CS and others would have a hissy fit that they waited 8 months for a custom item costing $3500 and it was built wrong. I think the key is having realistic expectations. Yes companies that make a new wiz bang cool item and get orders that exceed their production causes problems.

The industry as a whole suffers from our societies need for instant gratification. While the internet is great for both the end user and the vendor ... its a double edge sword. With the interweb of knowledge people can price check on their phones and determine how much there local store is OMG ripping them off. They generally don't take the shipping cost into account or realize that supply and demand is just that. Life isn't FAIR ... Fair is a place you eat cotton candy and ride the Zipper. You CAN vote with your wallet.

</div></div>

Again... read what was actually said. I never said that people shouldn't have patience or that items should be available on demand. I never said that people should not expect delays or inaccuracies. I said that Vendors should have accountability and not ride out till their retirement on entitlement and expect customers to say nothing when treated poorly simply based upon their past service. I said that just because YOU may have had good experiences or accepted a poor experience does not mean that I or ANYONE else should have to follow suit. And telling people to vote with their wallet rather than voice an opinion is exactly that, you trying to tell others that their experiences are irrelevant and unworthy based upon what ever action you did in the past or present. Again... Another hide member dropping in to try and invalidate someone else's experience here with their own experiences.

And I never said anything about "fair" anywhere either, but somehow you think it's ok to be condescending, so try to stick to what's actually said instead of attempting to insert language that was never used or implied.

 

[Sapper524]

Re: The Entitlement of Customers and Vendors

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Again... read what was actually said. I never said that people shouldn't have patience or that items should be available on demand. I never said that people should not expect delays or inaccuracies. I said that Vendors should have accountability and not ride out till their retirement on entitlement and expect customers to say nothing when treated poorly simply based upon their past service. I said that just because YOU may have had good experiences or accepted a poor experience does not mean that I or ANYONE else should have to follow suit. And telling people to vote with their wallet rather than voice an opinion is exactly that, you trying to tell others that their experiences are irrelevant and unworthy based upon what ever action you did in the past or present. Again... Another hide member dropping in to try and invalidate someone else's experience here with their own experiences.

And I never said anything about "fair" anywhere either, but somehow you think it's ok to be condescending, so try to stick to what's actually said instead of attempting to insert language that was never used or implied. </div></div>

I am hardly attempting to "defend" any poor customer service. The WHOLE context of the example was intended to show that sometimes you wait a long time for a product, pay top dollar, and STILL get the wrong stuff. Is that acceptable business practice? Depends on who you ask ... and their perspective. I have been on the receiving end of horrible customer service as well ... twice from what some of the "mob" consider a great vendor. I know longer do business with said vendor(s). Hence the voting with your wallet reference. Sometimes your the fly and sometimes your the windshield.

In my previous post I refered to how the whole industry front loads on products that don't exist yet. Take the SS 5-20 group buy for example ... how many people were all fired up over the shipping delays and who got what when etc. I have a deposit on a KSG from Kel Tec ill probably never see ... that was put down over 2 years ago. They only made/shipped like 600 or something so far and those are on Gunbroker for double retail. Its a bunch of crap but not a damn thing I can do about it. Forums like this give the little guy a voice to inform others about good/bad CS.

You want to take my comments as a defender of poor CS? LMAO ... go ahead. I could care less. Wow ...