The Goldilocks Hunting Rifle

[drew hopkinth]

I’m looking at putting together a mid weight mid recoil western hunting rifle (12-14 lbs all in) to complement a 6.5 creed lightweight rifle and a hefty 300 Norma. Might shoot it in the occasional NRL Hunter match, but I’m mostly focused on Rocky Mountain game (pronghorn, sheep/goat, muley, elk and black bear) at medium ranges (4-700 yards). I don’t really care about short action vs long action.

 

[Supersubes]

Thats a porky hunting rifle imo.

 

[drew hopkinth]

Thats a porky hunting rifle imo.

I’ve used a lot heavier comfortably.

 

[wpeach1912]

I think since you’ve got elk in there, 7mm PRC. I usually fall on the side of more power is never wrong if you can shoot it well. I’ve got a 300 WSM that serves the same purpose. 11.5lbs with a double pull ckye pod.

 

[mj1995]

I haven't read anything on 7mm prc, but for the game you listed i would choose a 7mm and with 7prc being the new hotness why not.

 

[4O6shootist]

In a rifle of that weight class, I'd probably go 7 Saum with a 24-26" if not suppressed. If suppressed prob 7prc to keep the same velocity as the Saum in a 22" pipe. 180hybrid is your baby. Very short bearing surface to get good velocity, it's a known killer, great bc, forgiving to jump and doesn't need a ton of freebore. I've killed and witnessed several elk taken with 65s they do the job just fine as well. I have an 11# 338rum, 10.5# 300norma imp, I usually find myself grabbing my 65 Saum to kill everything with. 156s @ 3000-3080 have done the trick on everything and violently.

 

[Eric_F]

Middleweight 7mm is the obvious answer. So 280 AI if you want factory ammo availability, 284 Win if you like being a special snowflake. I've got a 9lb Tikka 284 for basically your purposes.

 

[jbuck88]

7 SAUM is pretty dang close to the 280ai. If you are starting from scratch I'd probably go 7prc. However I would be happy with a 7saum or 280ai as well if a standard bolt face or short action was preferred.

 

[kswaterfowl]

6.5 creed will kill every animal you listed, and it's the easy button for nrl hunter.

 

[Bender]

.17 bee

 

[Edds]

A 308 Norma Mag in a 10 pound package would be a good choice.

 

[drew hopkinth]

6.5 creed will kill every animal you listed, and it's the easy button for nrl hunter.

I already have a 6.5 creed hunting/NRL Hunter rifle. The only time I might shoot this at a Hunter match is if I feel like I need more trigger time with it before hunting season.

 

[Blueoval56]

A Desert Tech SRS-A2 covert with the factory lightweight 7 rem mag conversion kit. Pick an optic with reasonable weight and you should end up around 13lbs all up ready to hunt, even lighter if you pick a sub-30oz scope and light rings.

Plus you can always change cartridges at your whim whenever you want.

 

[4O6shootist]

A 308 Norma Mag in a 10 pound package would be a good choice.

308 Norma mag huh? That's the belted case roughly based off the 338 win mag circa 1960. Bold strategy Cotton!

 

[hlee]

There’s no such thing as the Goldilocks gun. There’s not enough real world difference between the 2 listed to justify “splitting the difference.”

 

[Gustav7]

There’s no such thing as the Goldilocks gun. There’s not enough real world difference between the 2 listed to justify “splitting the difference.”

I kind of agree with this, but at the same time why not. Always nice to have choices and it would be cheaper and less harsh over a 300 Norma.

OP, I’ll be building a 7SS over the next 6 months or so but I am limited to short action. I think in your situation, 280AI would make me perk up. Most supported AI out there and a proven winner.

 

[Edds]

308 Norma mag huh? That's the belted case roughly based off the 338 win mag circa 1960. Bold strategy Cotton!

Yes, and still the best general purpose hunting cartridge ever.

 

[drew hopkinth]

There’s no such thing as the Goldilocks gun. There’s not enough real world difference between the 2 listed to justify “splitting the difference.”

There’s not enough real world difference between a lightweight 6.5 creed and a heavier 300 Norma? Really? Someone’s taking crazy pills.

And, within the confines of the criteria I laid out and the game I intend on taking, I’d say there is a Goldilocks gun. Not too much recoil, not too little energy on target, not too little barrel life, etc.

Nothing you said was of value here, and it didn’t need to be posted.

 

[hlee]

There’s not enough real world difference between a lightweight 6.5 creed and a heavier 300 Norma? Really? Someone’s taking crazy pills.

And, within the confines of the criteria I laid out and the game I intend on taking, I’d say there is a Goldilocks gun. Not too much recoil, not too little energy on target, not too little barrel life, etc.

Nothing you said was of value here, and it didn’t need to be posted.

Both will kill large NA game at the distances proscribed by the OP. Dead is dead. The 300 norma doesn’t make them “too dead” anymore than the 6.5 creed makes them “not dead enough.” Splitting the difference is unnecessary, but will help some gun maker take money out of the OPs wallet.

I see your reply and raise with;

Edit. I just saw that you’re the OP. Go forth and spend your money. There are a dozen cartridges and at least as many rifle configs between your two rifles. Go nuts. Each one will be slightly better, and slightly worse than the next. You’ll not know the “best” until you sample 2/3 of all possible configurations. Once you have done that, settle on the next rifle/cartridge that meets your specs. That, mathematically, is the best option.

The internet is a funny thing. You create a thread, but you have no say in who posts or what they write.

 

[hlee]

That said, I would have no issue with a lightweight 6.5 creed for any of the specified hunting tasks in the OP. I’d take a 6.5 creed in the heaviest configuration allowable in the rules for NRL hunter.

My “western hunting rifle” is a 7lb rifle in 270win. It is far from a Goldilocks rifle, but it - in my mind- is nearly ideally suited for mountain hunting.

 

[siscoe308]

I’d choose 7PRC if building today.

I set out to build a mid weight/ medium recoiling all around western hunting rifle couple yrs back& choose 280ai. Slinging 175’s at 2920 is bad medicine for everything in lower 48.

 

[rockn30809]

I'm partial to the old boring ass .30-06. It's easy to load up or down depending on what you are hunting at the time. Wide variety of factory ammo available if you don't handload.

 

[hlee]

I'm partial to the old boring ass .30-06. It's easy to load up or down depending on what you are hunting at the time. Wide variety of factory ammo available if you don't handload.

30-06? I bet you think meat loaf and jello molds are the height of cuisine too. Tell me you last get-together wasn’t a fondu pot-luck.

Just funnin’. All of these “one rifle to rule them all” threads are trash.

 

[rockn30809]

30-06? I bet you think meat loaf and jello molds are the height of cuisine too. Tell me you last get-together wasn’t a fondu pot-luck.

Just funnin’. All of these “one rifle to rule them all” threads are trash.

Haven't thought about jello molds in years.......lol

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

There’s not enough real world difference between a lightweight 6.5 creed and a heavier 300 Norma? Really? Someone’s taking crazy pills.

And, within the confines of the criteria I laid out and the game I intend on taking, I’d say there is a Goldilocks gun. Not too much recoil, not too little energy on target, not too little barrel life, etc.

Nothing you said was of value here, and it didn’t need to be posted.

No, his point is actually valid. The animals you listed along with the ranges is well inside the capability of the 6.5cm.

So, you'd be adding a rifle to split the difference when the difference doesn't actually do much.



If you just want something different, that's perfectly fine. But it's not needed based on your listed criteria.

 

[96C]

This is my unicorn fallow deer hunting rifle. Light and spicy within 600m using 143gr ELDX at 2970fps.

6.5PRC Curtis Axiom
24" 1:8" Proof Carbon
NF NX8 4-32 Tremor3

6.5PRC is excellent however not legal for some deer species down here which is a major drawback (Minimum 7mm for Sambar).

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I’d just use the lightweight 6.5CM you already have. It’s plenty capable of what you want to do and won’t suck to pack for western hunting like a 12-14lb rifle will. Most people who do a lot of hunting out west consider a 10lb rifle to be too heavy.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

This is my unicorn fallow deer hunting rifle. Light and spicy within 600m using 143gr ELDX at 2970fps.

6.5PRC Curtis Axiom
24" 1:8" Proof Carbon
NF NX8 4-32 Tremor3

6.5PRC is excellent however not legal for some deer species down here which is a major drawback (Minimum 7mm for Sambar).

View attachment 8244862

What’s the balance point on that rifle and what does it weigh?

 

[drew hopkinth]

Both will kill large NA game at the distances proscribed by the OP. Dead is dead. The 300 norma doesn’t make them “too dead” anymore than the 6.5 creed makes them “not dead enough.” Splitting the difference is unnecessary, but will help some gun maker take money out of the OPs wallet.

I see your reply and raise with;
View attachment 8244670

Edit. I just saw that you’re the OP. Go forth and spend your money. There are a dozen cartridges and at least as many rifle configs between your two rifles. Go nuts. Each one will be slightly better, and slightly worse than the next. You’ll not know the “best” until you sample 2/3 of all possible configurations. Once you have done that, settle on the next rifle/cartridge that meets your specs. That, mathematically, is the best option.

The internet is a funny thing. You create a thread, but you have no say in who posts or what they write.

You can just say you don’t know what you’re talking about, it would save you a bunch of time. Some genius you are, suggesting hiking with a 20lb 300 NM for days on end in the backcountry or using 6.5 creed for elk at ranges and conditions where 6.5 creed is flat out unethical. It’s almost like there are calibers between the two that would do the job better than either of them

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I love it when people come asking questions because they’re clueless and start educating people.

6.5 Creedmoor absolutely WILL kill elk or anything else in North America. There’s a whole thread I’ve on rokslide autopsy photos from people doing it. There’s another thread of the same where people are killing bear, elk, and moose as far as 500 yards with 223’s and posting the same photos.

I get it that it inflates the ego thinking you’re going out to hunt animals that are damn near bullet proof, but the reality is that animals aren’t very hard to kill if you don’t suck. So use a cartridge that you can shoot well with a good performing bullet and don’t suck.

 

[hlee]

You can just say you don’t know what you’re talking about, it would save you a bunch of time. Some genius you are, suggesting hiking with a 20lb 300 NM for days on end in the backcountry or using 6.5 creed for elk at ranges and conditions where 6.5 creed is flat out unethical. It’s almost like there are calibers between the two that would do the job better than either of them

You must not have read what I posted. I said that I’d take the light weight 6.5 CM for everything you want to hunt. Lots of people are shooting those distances at those game animals and having satisfactory results.

Again, my mountain rifle is 7lbs naked, chambered in 270 win. It’s not a Goldilocks gun. I’m not a fan of the recoil. But, it is light weight and “hunting accurate” (it keeps a good group until the barrel heats up, which is sufficient for a hunting gun) at the ranges I expect to shoot. It is light enough to carry all day, so I accept the recoil, and don’t run strings of fire like I would in a PRS event.

Honestly, for a western hunting gun, a 6.5 CM that tips the scales on the shy side of 10 lbs, scope/sling/ammo/etc is about as close to Goldilocks as you’re going to get. Light enough to pack all day. Lower recoil than a long action or magnum cartridge. Enough effect on target for elk at mid/long range.
The hunting/comp gun is an exercise in futility. Forget that nonsense.

But, if you must have a “tweener” rifle, pick a cartridge between the 6.5 CM and the 300 Norma in a rifle weight between “light” and “heavy.” You may luck out and the increased weight (over the 6.5 CM that you have) may tame the recoil down to about those levels. The gun will suck to carry more than the 6.5, but less than the 300. I suppose it will kill animals a bit deader than the 6.5, but not quite as dead as the 300 as well.

You can get a rough approximation of rifle recoil by multiplying the bullet weight (in lbs) by the muzzle velocity, and multiplying the powder charge (in lbs) by 3000, and adding those numbers. Divide the sum by the rifle weight (in lbs). This will give you the (approximate) velocity of the rifle under recoil.

 

[Lazlo]

I ruminated on this issue for a few months, and ultimately purchased a Seekins Element in 300WM. It's 6.5lbs naked, and about 10.5 kitted out the way I want it. A lighter scope would easily shave off 1.25lbs if desired.

It's offered in a range of calibers, and the 22" barrel leaves room for a suppressor without trying to carry around a fishing pole. Note: the shorter barrel also leaves a lot of the caliber differences moot, so shoot what you like and can easily purchase if afield.

Don't learn the hard way (like I did) that the 7mm SAUM round is commercially unobtainable.

 

[Edds]

The only reason a 6.5 Creemoor should be the choice for the OP's stated purpose is if that was the only choice he had.

To intentionally choose one from all the cartridges available would be something less than intelligent.

 

[Snowflake38]

I think since you’ve got elk in there, 7mm PRC. I usually fall on the side of more power is never wrong if you can shoot it well. I’ve got a 300 WSM that serves the same purpose. 11.5lbs with a double pull ckye pod.

View attachment 8243352

Hey man that’s a beautiful rifle what’s the specs on it please I’m wanting to build something very similar

 

[White Mamba]

If you reload a 6.5 prc on a medium action would be a great rifle, not a huge step up in recoil and would be easy for matches

 

[fdkay]

I'll be assembling my rifle this weekend, medium action, 7-08AI, 22" Mullerworks carbon fiber wrapped barrel. The plan is to shoot 160 class bullets around 2800 fps.

 

[wpeach1912]

Hey man that’s a beautiful rifle what’s the specs on it please I’m wanting to build something very similar

Tikka T3x long action and trigger, tikka oem bottom metal with Mountain Tactical tikka LA magazine, 22” C6 sendero 300WSM barrel custom throated for 212 ELD-X, PVA Ultralight Jetblast brake, Pure Precision Altitude in black carbon, and Burris XTR 3i 3.3-18 for scope. I’ve also since that picture put a SRS hunter rail on it so I could run my ckye pod or tripod on it.

 

[Bandit320]

30-06

 

[JR1200W3]

Here you go OP. This ought to make your decision easier, lol

77 gr Sierra SMK’s deer hunting

Since this has been a hot topic with calibers and bullets. This morning, 300yds, hunter pulled his shot to far back, 308 150 gr corelokt. My dog found it several hundred yards away very much alive. Bigger guns don’t help bad shot placement.

www.snipershide.com

 

[Baron23]

Ah, 300 PRC anybody? Hmmm?

 

[JR1200W3]

Ah, 300 PRC anybody? Hmmm?

For antelope, mule deer, sheep, and bear? Seems like overkill. 147 ELDMs at 3000fps wreck house on deer. I feel zero need to upgun to a howitzer like 300PRC

 

[supercorndogs]

30-06? I bet you think meat loaf and jello molds are the height of cuisine too. Tell me you last get-together wasn’t a fondu pot-luck.

Just funnin’. All of these “one rifle to rule them all” threads are trash.

Most of the hunting equipment threads are trash. I need a hunting scope. 20 recommendations for 40oz tactical scopes. Next season, my hunting rifle is too heavy. How we managed to wipe out so much game with the conglomeration of shitty rifles and cheap scopes I was used to seeing in deer and elk camp when I was younger... Not that I am interested in hunting with dads 700adl 30/06 with a Tasco world class scope. But there are lots of sub 17oz scopes out there that will work fine for 90% of peopels hunting needs. Some of the best budget options like the Razor LH line died on the vine for lack of interest. While dudes dragged gen2 Razors to their deer stands to shoot deer from 25yds. Then complained the reticles were to thin for hunting.

 

[jbuck88]

There is a lot of truth to what @supercorndogs is saying. My main hunting rifle wears a 2.5-10x42 and had proven itself over and over and over. I've tried plenty of heavier scopes but came back to a decent mid power scope that just works.

 

[JR1200W3]

Most of the hunting equipment threads are trash. I need a hunting scope. 20 recommendations for 40oz tactical scopes. Next season, my hunting rifle is too heavy. How we managed to wipe out so much game with the conglomeration of shitty rifles and cheap scopes I was used to seeing in deer and elk camp when I was younger... Not that I am interested in hunting with dads 700adl 30/06 with a Tasco world class scope. But there are lots of sub 17oz scopes out there that will work fine for 90% of peopels hunting needs. Some of the best budget options like the Razor LH line died on the vine for lack of interest. While dudes dragged gen2 Razors to their deer stands to shoot deer from 25yds. Then complained the reticles were to thin for hunting.

It doesn't help that some reptile always jumps on and recommends a TAC OPS rifle and shows a photo of his 20" 308W. Then proceeds to tell everyone to go to the gym when people point out it doesn't meet the criteria an OP was looking for.

 

[Jrb572]

I went with a 300win mag. Basically it will work for pretty much everything in North America and if for some reason I’m traveling and forget or airline looses my ammunition. I should be able to purchase something that will work in it. I even went as far as to do my best to copy a commercially available ammunition for it.

I know you can not exactly copy but I’ve tried it at different distances and I would not even bother rezeroing my rifle.

 

[diggler1833]

1. Shot placement
2. Bullet construction

Once you get extremely light, recoil starts to suck, so you either compromise with practicing with and then lugging around a suppressor or carry ear pro.

When you bring a heavy rifle to the field, the weight starts to suck after the first hour. Again, you compromise by either taking it on a short walk to the blind (I do this), or you find yourself daydreaming about another rifle build while you're hiking around.

My "Goldilocks" is 10-11lb for hunting open areas. It is heavy enough to keep practice comfortable, and light enough that I can focus on hunting instead of why I'm carrying a boat anchor afield. For those who like to comment about strength, I promise that I've survived many, many humps/hikes/rucks with far more strapped across my back...and it sucked then too - even though you make it. I want hunting to be fun, not remind me of a conditioning hike.

My two Goldilocks rifles are in 7mm RM, and .308. I've never hunted elk, but I've never lost a deer to a .308.

 

[FNG1001]

Winchester Model 70 30-06
Leupold Mark5HD 3-18
Montana Sling

Loaded with a reputable bullet, anything within 400 yards is easy day.

 

[jmw]

6.5 saum-6.5prc or 7prc
We have taken deer as far as 975 with the saum 140 elite hunters. Just yesterday evening we took deer from 550 670 780 with 7prc. 2 fell straight down one ran about 30 yards.
Any of those are excellent choices for long range hunting.
22 inch 7prc with tbac magnus 10.1 pounds without bipod

 

[hlee]

I went with a 300win mag. Basically it will work for pretty much everything in North America and if for some reason I’m traveling and forget or airline looses my ammunition. I should be able to purchase something that will work in it. I even went as far as to do my best to copy a commercially available ammunition for it.

I know you can not exactly copy but I’ve tried it at different distances and I would not even bother rezeroing my rifle.

Should have gone 300 Weatherby. In a pinch, just stoke her with 300 win mag. Sure, the case mouths will be a little blown out, but NBD.

Every year, I find a couple of 300 WM cases at the range, suspiciously right before deer season, with some “tell tale signs” of mischambering. I always wonder what the shooter was thinking. Probably, “close enough for deer.”

 

[Jrb572]

Should have gone 300 Weatherby. In a pinch, just stoke her with 300 win mag. Sure, the case mouths will be a little blown out, but NBD.

Every year, I find a couple of 300 WM cases at the range, suspiciously right before deer season, with some “tell tale signs” of mischambering. I always wonder what the shooter was thinking. Probably, “close enough for deer.”

Mine makes little groups with either the factory ammunition or my hand loads. I shot groups using factory and hand loads and ended up with one ragged hole. It’s definitely a half moa rifle.