The great debate about using the mouth expander...

[ReaperDriver]

I know all the pros and cons of using the neck expander ball or not, and I don't currently use mine at all for my bolt gun because the case mouths are rarely ever out of round (that I can tell). I primarily don't use it because I tend to get some case run-out as the buttom drags through the mouth on the way back out and stretches the neck slightly.

BUT.... it occured to me after writing in the thread about doing a 2-step neck sizing process - that if you neck down in two different steps, you could run the button on the 1st neck-only step. That way you get the best of both worlds - the button rounds out the case from the inside instead of relying on the bushing to do it and forcing the imperfections to the inside. But then when you do the 2nd step of FL sizing with the next smaller bushing WITHOUT the button, your shoulders will be bumped correctly AND the button won't open up your necked down case or stretch the neck.

This obviously involves either having two different dies (like I do) or you would have to change your Single FL or neck die between processes.

What does the hive think? I currently have both a Redding bushing Neck-only die that I do my 1st step from .343 to .339 and then I use a FL REdding bushing die to FL size and neck the final portion from .339 to the final desired neck diameter. I'm thinking about putting the button BACK ON the neck die for the reasons stated above and wondered if my logic is sound or if there is something I'm missing?

 

[Swan]

Re: The great debate about using the mouth expander...

I think you spend way too much time worrying about reloading.

Honestly though, have you shot comparison sample strings of one stage neck sizing vs. two stage neck sizing (that you currently utilize) or expander neck sizing vs. non-expander neck sizing? You did claim some runout on the expander ball prepped brass, but my interest would lie in actual results on paper, not the theoretical.

I appreciate the OCD'ness of your efforts, as I used to worry about these same sorts of issues not long ago. But now I'd rather keep reloading as simple and quick as possible. Shooting is more fun, no?

For the record, I use the expander and FL every time, and don't have anything really relevant to add to your OP. lol

 

[HOGGHEAD]

Re: The great debate about using the mouth expander...

I do it similar to what you do. However for my second die I just use the Sinclair neck sizing mandrel. And I agree with you about runout problems. When I took the expander ball out of my sizing dies and went to a separate stage and used the Sinclair mandrel, my runout problems were solved.

I like the Sinclair die better because you only have to buy one die body. And thn you buy the different diameter mandrel's. And there is basically no set up, because all you are doing is sizing the inside of the neck. The die does not touch anything else. Tom.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: The great debate about using the mouth expander...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BUT.... it occured to me after writing in the thread about doing a 2-step neck sizing process - that if you neck down in two different steps, you could run the button on the 1st neck-only step. </div></div>

This process works the brass 3 times, sizing button down, expander ball up, sizing bushing down.

The normal NO sizing regimine only works the brass once, down1/2 way plus down the other 1/2 way.

Thus, you are not going to get the bress neck life of the normal NO regimine, which is pretty much why NO sizers size NO.....

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: The great debate about using the mouth expander...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you spend way too much time worrying about reloading.

Honestly though, have you shot comparison sample strings of one stage neck sizing vs. two stage neck sizing (that you currently utilize) or expander neck sizing vs. non-expander neck sizing? You did claim some runout on the expander ball prepped brass, but my interest would lie in actual results on paper, not the theoretical.

I appreciate the OCD'ness of your efforts, as I used to worry about these same sorts of issues not long ago. But now I'd rather keep reloading as simple and quick as possible. Shooting is more fun, no?

For the record, I use the expander and FL every time, and don't have anything really relevant to add to your OP. lol </div></div>

You're right, I'm probably being WAY more OCD than I need to. Its not like I'm doing 1000 yd BR shooting. I primarily went to the no expander button because with both neck-only or Fl sizing, the expander ball was causing enough runout by pulling the neck on the way back up that I was getting some rounds that wouldn't chamber at the range. Since I stopped using the ball, problem solved.

And I doubt there will be any measureable difffernce on paper between neck sizing in one step vs two. I was only taking my mentor's advice to do the 2-step to increase brass life by not sizing the neck down in one big chunck.

I dunno, I'm going to go back and re-think on this......

As far as measurable results - the ONE thing I think I did find is that the minimum neck tension I can get away with has seemed to really tighten the groups up. I was previously going with .002-.003 tension. But I experiemented with only .001 and it seemed to help a lot. Obviously good only in a bolt gun....

 

[clmayfield]

Re: The great debate about using the mouth expander...

The advantage of the expander ball method is it drives your non-concentricity to the outside. If you bushing size a second time, you have driven the inconsistency back to the inside and have gained nothing, only working your brass more.

Better than an expander ball is a sizing mandrel sized down to achieve the appropriate neck tension. You will have a little more control over that than with a ball. A lot of these balls do catch and gall or stretch the neck. You have to polish them pretty good to make them work.

Of course, if you are turning necks, you are getting rid of all of the inconsistency, so it will work equally both ways.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: The great debate about using the mouth expander...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The advantage of the expander ball method is it drives your non-concentricity to the outside. If you bushing size a second time, you have driven the inconsistency back to the inside and have gained nothing, only working your brass more.

</div></div>

Excellent point, I hadn't thought of that.

 

[Unsichtbar]

Re: The great debate about using the mouth expander...

Tuned and modified Lee Collet die with addition of a washer fixed to shell holder to 3/4 lenght resize the neck, when loading for one rifle. This has been working well for years IMO.

I used all the other methods and finnally settled on the Lee collet die. Factors other than neck sizer used play and important roll, annealing and this is a big one clean necks with brush wraped with 4/0 steel wool.

Shoot more, spend less time reloading is what I am looking for
with quality ammunition.