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The HK, Sig, CZ, Walther, Beretta THREAD

Milf Dots

Milf Dots

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Oct 21, 2019
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I'm a modern service pistol kind of guy whose interests are in the practical and tactical sphere.

I love the ergos of the H&K p30 and VP models and the reliability and durability are top shelf. And who wouldn't want to own a clean p7m13 ?!

Classic Sigs have always appealed to me and the p320 and p365 really surprised me as all around great pistols with the familiar classic Sig ergos.

I find CZs appealing but haven't bought any yet- I'll probably focus on the p07/p09 and p10 models.

Walther seems to have built a nice niche for themselves and a couple of their models might wind up in my collection at some point.

Beretta's APX might just be the most under-appreciated poly striker pistol from any large, respected manufacturer (except for the smallest model which isn't really an APX at all- it's just a renamed Nano).
 
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1802C284-DD06-4291-B06C-2B6F89169737.jpeg

32E41462-EFC7-4505-AB75-643C24D6C6DB.jpeg
 
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P10c may be my favorite striker fire pistol Factory trigger is one of the better i’ve shot.

The legion is a different animal altogether. Reset is insanely short and it’s a fast shooter.

CJW trigger job on the P09 in the future. They do wonders to the CZ’s
 
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Take a good look at the Walther PDP. I wouldn't have believed it either until I experienced it, but it's completing hard against your HK's for a reliable duty pistol with good ergos.
 
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E. Bryant said:
And the FN guys are sitting in the corner feeling left out of the party 😢
Click to expand...
I love the FNX. I thought it would feel bulky with that double stack .45 but it felt really well balanced and comfortable in the hand. I actually liked shooting it better than my H&K USP .45 (which has a match trigger and still sucks! Trigger reset is about a mile long.).
 
Bourbon_and_Bullets said:
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Nice pistolas!

I'm looking at getting a polymer CZ, not sure between the P10F and P-09. I really struggle to shoot my G17s well but have a CZ 85C (with Shadow hammer and spring) that I find so easy to shoot well. I want a polymer pistol to cut some weight (for matches like Mammoth) that I'm more likely to shoot well/more closely resembles my steel CZ. Only downside to me of the P-09 is that I'd have to get it milled for an optic at some point vs the P10F being OR. How do you find the 2 pistols compare?
 
dgheriani said:
Nice pistolas!

I'm looking at getting a polymer CZ, not sure between the P10F and P-09. I really struggle to shoot my G17s well but have a CZ 85C (with Shadow hammer and spring) that I find so easy to shoot well. I want a polymer pistol to cut some weight (for matches like Mammoth) that I'm more likely to shoot well/more closely resembles my steel CZ. Only downside to me of the P-09 is that I'd have to get it milled for an optic at some point vs the P10F being OR. How do you find the 2 pistols compare?
Click to expand...

I have about 17K rounds through a P-09, and a little over 14K through a P-10F. They are my USPSA carry optic pistols and I shoot them about as well, with the 10 edging the 9 just a little in how flat it shoots because of the grip shape.

I also have a G17 so I understand the struggle.

The 9 and the 10 are very, very different handguns. They take the same magazines and that's about it. I'll try to do a rundown on their major characteristics and which my favorite in each.
  • Weight: P-09. It's at least 2 oz heavier than a similarly outfitted 10F. My P-09 in CO trim (with an SRO and empty mag) comes in at about 32 - 33 oz. The 10 with the same optic and mag is a hair over 30.
  • Bore axis: P-10F. Don't let the short sides of slide of the slide-in-frame CZ design fool you. It's an illusion. Measure vertically from the bottom of the tang where your hand nests to the centerline of the extractor (close enough to bore centerline). P-09: 1.25", P-10: .80"
  • Grip ergos: Tie. The grips are very different in shape. The 09 is flat sided, with less of a backstrap hump with the L insert. The 10 is curvy with a very mild palm swell on both sides and a very aggressive hump with the L insert. Both are quite narrower than a Glock. I shoot both of mine with the Large backstrap even though I have medium sized hands. I find the large backstrap on both gives the most repeatable index out of the holster and the most effective control over recoil. The bigger hump on the large P-10 backstrap makes it feel closer to a Glock grip angle than the -09.
  • Grip texture: Tie. Both suck equally. While the P-10s come close to being OK in front and back strap texture, the sides are still nowhere near rough enough and the top of the grip sides (where we do most of the work) are slick as snot on wet glass on both. Bottom line, they both need to be stippled or stuck with silicon carbide.
  • Recoil control: P-10 by a small margin. The larger backstrap hump helps here.
  • Controls: P-09 by a small margin. I need to rotate the grip slightly on both to hit the mag release, but the location of it on the -09 (slightly lower than the 10) makes it faster for me. I hit the slide release with the thumb of my weak hand as I reset the grip and the huge tab on the -07/-09 is stupid easy to find.
  • Trigger: P-10 as stock. P-09 by far when tuned with Cajun Gunworks parts. My P-10F trigger is still stock except for the trigger blade itself (HBI Theta) but it's very clean after 14K rounds. The Apex Tactical trigger kit comes with a disconnector that makes it more of a rolling break and it takes off about 1.5 lbs. I imagine it will feel like a Glock trigger with a minus connector.
  • Mag well: P-10. But they're both plastic so I grab a dremel and a sanding drum and bevel the shit out of both.
After considering it all, the P-09 is my favorite match pistol and the P-07 what I carry almost every day.
 
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Getting a Wilson Combat 320 carry with the action tune/trigger whatever package, it'll also get the manual safety as luckily the company that does this is also a Wilson dealer. She'll get magnaported at some point too.

Decided I've had enough of the 9rd 1911 but I like the thumb safety, 18rd striker fired I guess will be it... my first foray into this type of gun, hoping Wilson knows how to get the trigger running well as I've heard that striker gun triggers are abysmal compared to 1911s.

Anyways, 18 in the gun and 21rd extra mags gives me a bit more of a hard on given the unrest of the days of current.

Also nice knowing I can just get a slide with the internals and have a full size with no extra paperwork, may do this with a big light on it for wandering around at home, smaller slide and no light for everyday carry. Surprisingly this thing weighs about the same as my 3" 1911, though the dimensions aren't quite as nice, expected from a double stack...
 
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I only have second hand knowledge of any of these brands. Two really good friends have several of these that I’ve gotten to shoot a bit though. One guy got rid of his Glocks and started buying H&K pistols. He’s got an HK45 and a VP9 compact that he likes. He seems to always be on the hunt for a P30L, I’m sure he’ll pull that trigger soon enough. And even though he has all this $$$ wrapped up in H&K the pistol he carries the most is a 9mm Walther PPQ. The PPQ is absolutely incredible. The trigger is just as good as advertised and the only way to miss a target is to do it on purpose. My next background check pistol will most likely be a PPQ. Probably in .40 so I can get a 9mm conversion barrel, just like my Glock

Another friend has a CZ Shadow 2 that I’ve shot a few times. This is another fabulous shooter. I’d really like to build an 80% 2011 before I buy any other hammer-fired pistol but the Shadow would be something I’d consider
 
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The D said:
The PPQ is absolutely incredible
Click to expand...

Pass on that and get the PDP which is replacing the PPQ. The PDP has a better grip, which comes in two lengths, and three different frame/slide lengths. It also has a trigger as good as the PPQ, it comes ready for mounting optics, and it uses Glock-compatible iron sights.
 
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308pirate said:
Pass on that and get the PDP which is replacing the PPQ. The PDP has a better grip, which comes in two lengths, and three different frame/slide lengths. It also has a trigger as good as the PPQ, it comes ready for mounting optics, and it uses Glock-compatible iron sights.
Click to expand...
Noted, thanks
 
dgheriani said:
Nice pistolas!

I'm looking at getting a polymer CZ, not sure between the P10F and P-09. I really struggle to shoot my G17s well but have a CZ 85C (with Shadow hammer and spring) that I find so easy to shoot well. I want a polymer pistol to cut some weight (for matches like Mammoth) that I'm more likely to shoot well/more closely resembles my steel CZ. Only downside to me of the P-09 is that I'd have to get it milled for an optic at some point vs the P10F being OR. How do you find the 2 pistols compare?
Click to expand...
I’d go 10F and not look back.
 
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308pirate said:
I have about 17K rounds through a P-09, and a little over 14K through a P-10F. They are my USPSA carry optic pistols and I shoot them about as well, with the 10 edging the 9 just a little in how flat it shoots because of the grip shape.

I also have a G17 so I understand the struggle.

The 9 and the 10 are very, very different handguns. They take the same magazines and that's about it. I'll try to do a rundown on their major characteristics and which my favorite in each.
  • Weight: P-09. It's at least 2 oz heavier than a similarly outfitted 10F. My P-09 in CO trim (with an SRO and empty mag) comes in at about 32 - 33 oz. The 10 with the same optic and mag is a hair over 30.
  • Bore axis: P-10F. Don't let the short sides of slide of the slide-in-frame CZ design fool you. It's an illusion. Measure vertically from the bottom of the tang where your hand nests to the centerline of the extractor (close enough to bore centerline). P-09: 1.25", P-10: .80"
  • Grip ergos: Tie. The grips are very different in shape. The 09 is flat sided, with less of a backstrap hump with the L insert. The 10 is curvy with a very mild palm swell on both sides and a very aggressive hump with the L insert. Both are quite narrower than a Glock. I shoot both of mine with the Large backstrap even though I have medium sized hands. I find the large backstrap on both gives the most repeatable index out of the holster and the most effective control over recoil. The bigger hump on the large P-10 backstrap makes it feel closer to a Glock grip angle than the -09.
  • Grip texture: Tie. Both suck equally. While the P-10s come close to being OK in front and back strap texture, the sides are still nowhere near rough enough and the top of the grip sides (where we do most of the work) are slick as snot on wet glass on both. Bottom line, they both need to be stippled or stuck with silicon carbide.
  • Recoil control: P-10 by a small margin. The larger backstrap hump helps here.
  • Controls: P-09 by a small margin. I need to rotate the grip slightly on both to hit the mag release, but the location of it on the -09 (slightly lower than the 10) makes it faster for me. I hit the slide release with the thumb of my weak hand as I reset the grip and the huge tab on the -07/-09 is stupid easy to find.
  • Trigger: P-10 as stock. P-09 by far when tuned with Cajun Gunworks parts. My P-10F trigger is still stock except for the trigger blade itself (HBI Theta) but it's very clean after 14K rounds. The Apex Tactical trigger kit comes with a disconnector that makes it more of a rolling break and it takes off about 1.5 lbs. I imagine it will feel like a Glock trigger with a minus connector.
  • Mag well: P-10. But they're both plastic so I grab a dremel and a sanding drum and bevel the shit out of both.
After considering it all, the P-09 is my favorite match pistol and the P-07 what I carry almost every day.
Click to expand...
Thanks a ton for the very detailed comparison. I think I'll grab a P-10 OR and then a P-09 a lil later. Can't hurt to have both!
 
I have a CZ P-01 Omega Grey that I really like, but check out the discontinued CZ 2075 RAMI. I have the decocker version, and the damn thing feels even better in my hand than the P-01. It is smaller than the P-10c, and weighs the same (according to the Handgun Hero comparator). You can use the short mag or the extended, the latter holds 14rds and it definitely gives me a better grip.

I’m waiting on getting the barrel threaded so I don’t know how it shoots, but if you’re open to all-metal pistols, it’s one for your research, anyway. In case you’re wondering why I didn’t shoot it straight away, I have a hearing issue so I need to shoot suppressed.

Edit: don’t buy the poly Rami, be cool 😎 and get the metal one in 9mm. Lots of problems reported with the poly one in .40 cal.
 
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I keep toying with a P10C or P10F. Like HK's too; but for some reason I thought the P10 would be cool to own. Does it make sense for me? Nope...but since when would that enter into the equation.
 
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For carry duty I like single action Sigs, some need minor modifications on the trigger and change sights and grips to preference

For fun, the target Sigs are also nice, plus CZ is a great value in the sport shooting scene.

Still need to get a PPK, because reasons, but more just to have and because it’s a sexy gun

Beretta pistols are kinda meh, 92s are cool but lots of cooler stuff at the same price point, HK seems to just have a hype factor but lots of stuff (like sig) seems to shoot above their price point while having a price tag below it.
 
Bigfatcock said:
Beretta 92 or GTFO

CZ Rami is the best concealed carry gun…ever. Fight me.
Click to expand...

Did CZ ever fix the tini-ass safety on the RAMI? I had an earlier all-metal version and that was probably the biggest ergonomic issue. Had some feeding problems out of the box but fixed that with better magazine springs and feed ramp polishing.
 
Beretta's much revised APX A1 Full sized pistol

APX Family

Find out what makes the Beretta APX the most advanced striker-fired pistol on the market
www.beretta.com www.beretta.com
BerettaAPX_A1 Full.png
 
I have or have has most striker fired pistols (Glock, HK VP30, CZ P10, Shadow Systems, Ruger LCP and LC9S ...). I prefer the CZ P07 over the P10, much nicer trigger, plus SA/DA, is nice. My favorite striker fired pistol suprisingly is my Springfield Hellcat. With the Apex trigger and Powder River Precision trigger kit, it is by far the nicest trigger I have had in a striker fired gun. I have tried many aftermarket triggers (Apex, Lone Wolf...) and none feel as good.
 
My CZ P07 with the Cajun trigger kit shoots like a laser beam. It’s incredibly accurate.

I’ve had SIGs and Walthers for many years, and they are nice, but CZs have taken my shooting to the next level. I have a Shadow 2 for the range also - box stock, not Cajunized.
 
jonnybrowning said:
My CZ P07 with the Cajun trigger kit shoots like a laser beam. It’s incredibly accurate.
Click to expand...

The P-07 and P-09 are amazingly accurate. Their slide to frame and barrel to slide fit is incredible for the price that you pay. My P-09 has a little over 18,000 rounds and is still tighter than a virgin in church.
 
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308pirate said:
The P-07 and P-09 are amazingly accurate. Their slide to frame and barrel to slide fit is incredible for the price that you pay. My P-09 has a little over 18,000 rounds and is still tighter than a virgin in church.
Click to expand...
It's really under-rated. I bought it on a whim when gandermountain was closing down. They had this for like 375 with a light (it was shit but still). I stopped carrying anything else about 2 weeks later.
 
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308pirate said:
The P-07 and P-09 are amazingly accurate. Their slide to frame and barrel to slide fit is incredible for the price that you pay. My P-09 has a little over 18,000 rounds and is still tighter than a virgin in church.
Click to expand...
My p09 may be my favorite pistol. trigger is only complaint. have you modified?

best da/sa i’ve felt is a legion 226 with the shortest reset i’ve ever seen.

p10c may take the cake for me on striker trigger out of the box.
 
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It's very simple.
I have 3 different barrels for this POS, 2 standard, 1 threaded.
None of the barrels will feed a hollow point, at all, zero, zip, nada.
So this gets a big fat NO.

no.jpg


This will feed anything you want, probably even a rubber ducky.
Reliable, rock solid, will not let you down, ever.
Super accurate to boot.
A resounding YES.

yes.jpg
 
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Bourbon_and_Bullets said:
My p09 may be my favorite pistol. trigger is only complaint. have you modified?

best da/sa i’ve felt is a legion 226 with the shortest reset i’ve ever seen.

p10c may take the cake for me on striker trigger out of the box.
Click to expand...
Strip and polish everything that rubs. CGW firing pin and firing pin spring. CGW 15 lb hammer spring. 7 1/2 lb DA, 2 3/4 lb SA.
 
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