Rifle Scopes the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

[jeffersonv]

Wow. Really?
Didn't have the correct content?
Good to know.

Hey, it's a privately owned site and is subject to the owner's agenda.
Take it or leave it right?

But I no longer think it's something it's not, like unbiased.

Maybe I'm next?

 

[blackblue]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

I would imagine it was because the post got way off topic.

 

[madAB]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

It's funny you mention this. I had been following that thread as I have a SS 5-20 on order. I was wondering why I couldn't find it anymore.

 

[jasonk]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffersonv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow. Really?
Didn't have the correct content?
Good to know.

Hey, it's a privately owned site and is subject to the owner's agenda.
Take it or leave it right?

But I no longer think it's something it's not, like unbiased.

Maybe I'm next?</div></div>

You should prove your point and dedication to your morals by leaving and never coming back, that would teach that dirty biased agenda driven site owner a lesson!!

I can tell you it had nothing to do with the OP and the initial impressions posted in that review or any of the other on track comments. Last night the thread more than tripled in size with a bunch of worthless banter and I'm guessing Frank chose to delete it vs. leaving it here to drag the sites IQ down.

As to Frank having an agenda, you've obviously never met the man. He's the last guy here that I think would sugarcoat anything for anyone.

 

[Das Capitolin]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

I have re-posted my initial impressions, but ask that we keep 'more' on-topic then before.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2731810

 

[Lowlight]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

I don't care about someone's initial impression, it wasn't the opinion, that is for sure.

Now as for calling me out in public, well that I do care about especially when you know how to pm me if you have an issue with how the site is run. We can dicuss via email if you like.

I have no vested interest in the success or failure of any product here, frankly I don't give a fuck, more like bored on Saturday night, if people have an issue that is their job and the companies job to address it. I was simply entertaining myself.

Now calling me out and accusing me of having an interest, well , we're back to something I don't like, so I would recommend calling me out for the right reason and not the wrong one, cause then the dictator in me rears its head. In which case banning you is easy, after all your publicly accusing me of something instead of asking.

Smart move, let me know how it works for you.

 

[winxp_man]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

I vote delete this to!!! This brings no good knowledge to the scope section of this forum at all !!!!



Aron-

 

[jeffersonv]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

My apologies if I saw an agenda behind the deletion of the post that wasn't there even though it appeared it was going that way at lease early on.

If there were other reasons, I missed it, hence my questions.

Ban away if you wish. I'll get over it.

 

[Tactical]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

Dude, what does that serve. He explained why. Everyone takes things wrong some times just say sorry and move on

Challeneging him to ban you is like stomping your feet in corner. It wont end well

 

[Lowlight]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

Matrys ..

You have to love em, what they don't get is, if I had an issue with the original post I would never have photographed and jumped through every hoop that was asked. I dialed my scope as requested and documented the results, that is not a bias,

Never ceases to amaze me how people will see two pages of this and then cry bias. How you can miss the fact that doing this brings a ton more attention then leaving it alone.

I'll see if he sticks to his principles and leave otherwise I am happy to delete his account, wouldn't want him to compromise and look weak. Happy to play the villain for him.

 

[steelcomp]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Matrys ..

You have to love em, what they don't get is, if I had an issue with the original post I would never have photographed and jumped through every hoop that was asked. I dialed my scope as requested and documented the results, that is not a bias,

Never ceases to amaze me how people will see two pages of this and then cry bias. How you can miss the fact that doing this brings a ton more attention then leaving it alone.

I'll see if he sticks to his principles and leave otherwise I am happy to delete his account, wouldn't want him to compromise and look weak. Happy to play the villain for him. </div></div>What about the video? That video clearly showed that even your scope's lines weren't any where <span style="font-style: italic">near</span> lined up, after all your insisting that your scope was "right" every time. Obviously it wasn't, and you were having the same issue everyone else was. Why that had to turn into something personal with all the insults and sarcasm on your part I don't understand. It had nothing to do with you, it's merely a function of the design of the scope, and I thought that was what this site and this section was about.
I never said anything negative or derogatory about you or the scope, ever. It was good information to explain why at times, the lines on the SS may or may not line up. It's not a flaw, and it's not a defect, and it's not tolerance stacking or anything else. I think I've read this as one of the most common complaints about this scope, and it was a good explanation.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

Please the video was shot from an angle, and that was the prototype.

I was off the side of the rifle the camera is too big, I am happy to shoot another right now,

I posted picture after picture but will do you a video now any way you want spec out the test I will shoot it.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

First off Steelcomp.

1. You accused me ignoring the issue that the lines were off, I demonstrated they are not. Clearly the camera in the video of the prototype was not straight behind the rifle, but they were one.

2. You accused me of not knowing what a spline was on several posts in that in that thread, even after posting these pictures.

I took these during the conversation

I will do it live on tape right now and post it... Mine worked others posted theirs worked

I believe it is an assembly issue,

 

[Lowlight]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

Here is a screen shot, High RES not off You Tube for you too look at

1. That is not off, that is touching

2. The Camera is clearly not straight behind the turret and is in fact back a bit, because my Video Camara will not focus as close

SHOW OF HANDS, WHO THINKS THIS IS NOT LINED UP CORRECTLY ?

3.This is clearly the prototype

 

[Lowlight]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

If this is what you are calling off... I will agree this image is off the line after turning the dials, but that is the slack in the turret movement. I can move this back to center some and it is nothing what I would call "off' this is not causing a person an issue...

This is off... like I showed you all...

I would consider the misalign on the SSHD nothing compared to what is here with this particular Hensoldt. This is one of four I have and the only one that does it, so I would say an assembly issue.

 

[steelcomp]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please the video was shot from an angle, and that was the prototype.

I was off the side of the rifle the camera is too big, I am happy to shoot another right now,

I posted picture after picture but will do you a video now any way you want spec out the test I will shoot it. </div></div>Set the knob at zero. Dial up 1.6-1.7 mils...then reset to zero. The lines will line up perfectly. Then move .7-.8 more mils and re-zero. The lines will be almost perfectly half-off.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

You called me out that I got sacrastic and insulted you, after I did all you asked, while you accused me of covering it up and not knowing what a spline is, and here you sit not saying a word about what you said...

I'm not wasting my time anymore on this, mine works, and clearly I have demonstrated,

Too bad your scopes don't line up, mine does, others do... I must be extremely lucky to have mounted and zeroed it on 3 rifles without an issue. I will say there is enough "slack" in the turret to move it off center, but i can also move to center, the slack is exactly as posted above in the image that does not line up.

You want to poke me in the eye over this, well I not defending this scope... I personally don't care, don't have to any interest in its success or failure and I am not going to let you accuse me of covering it up any more.

You can't even address the screen shot from the video you say is "off" ... I don't believe it is.

Enjoy you scope or send it back to SWFA for a refund, that is your choice. I made mine.

 

[steelcomp]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

Frank,
I'm not here to get into a pissing contest with you. All this personal "he said, she said" stuff is ridiculous. I never <span style="font-style: italic">accused</span> you of anything. Not once. I questioned what you were saying with all due respect, because it didn't sound like you were following what I was trying to explain. That's the Internet sometimes, and I was just trying to be perfectly clear. You took it personal. It wasn't. I tried to explain why the scope does what it does...which hasn't changed. With 60 splines, and 100 lines, if you move the cap the lines simply won't line up <span style="font-style: italic">all the time</span>. It's physically impossible. That's all I've tried to say from the beginning. How you handle things and how you treat people is your mess, not mine.

 

[deadly0311]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steelcomp</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please the video was shot from an angle, and that was the prototype.

I was off the side of the rifle the camera is too big, I am happy to shoot another right now,

I posted picture after picture but will do you a video now any way you want spec out the test I will shoot it. </div></div>Set the knob at zero. <span style="font-weight: bold">Dial up 1.6-1.7 mils...then reset to zero. The lines will line up perfectly. Then move .7-.8 more mils and re-zero. The lines will be almost perfectly half-off.</span>
</div></div>


Steelcomp your argument is ridiculous....he has demonstrated that the turrets line up with the index mark.....

the bolded part of your statement is starting to follow this logic:

"See what happens when you have no practical experience doing something... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet. "

 

[Lowlight]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steelcomp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What about the video? <span style="font-weight: bold">That video clearly showed that even your scope's lines weren't any where <span style="font-style: italic">near</span> lined up, </span> after all your insisting that your scope was "right" every time. Obviously it wasn't, and you were having the same issue everyone else was. </div></div>

You absolutely accused me last night and again today... you claim right here, that in my video the scope "no where near lines up"

Here is the screen shot from the video in question,

You are telling me, that this is not lined up... meanwhile it certainly appears lined up which is probably why you are ignoring this fact... even with the camera back and too the left. Look at the Up / Down line as compared to the vertical line it shows the same parallax error because the camera is well back and off center, still the lines are lining up. You took an ultra low res You Tube Video and tried using that as evidence against me -- missing this.

Ignore the images, ignore I posted them in real time... you're started this pissing contest I didn't, I simply stated I got lucky mine is spot on. Others have posted the same.

You accused me last night and again today... quoted. You clearly started this, which is why you went out, ignored this and posted a new thread to press your opinion.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

Regarding Frank's hi-res screen shot, I gotta say, the Spurh mount fits the 5-20 perfectly. I have the same setup and really like the combination.

Not gonna jump in on the rest of the festivities, just wanted to say I like the Spurh and the SS5-20.

 

[ashiha]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rancid Coolaid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Regarding Frank's hi-res screen shot, I gotta say, the Spurh mount fits the 5-20 perfectly. I have the same setup and really like the combination.

Not gonna jump in on the rest of the festivities, just wanted to say I like the Spurh and the SS5-20. </div></div>

I've always wondered about those angled rings. Are there any particular advantages to them over the standard ones?

 

[ScottyS]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

The problem here is:

We have a $1000 scope that is built with features and design to be nearly equal to $2000-$3000 scopes.

There are people buying this that have never owned a professional-grade tactical optic before.

These people are expecting the perfection that they assume (wrongly) exists on professional-grade optics, having never experienced any.

They are *looking* for issues that justify buyer's remorse, as they have never spent that kind of money and their expectations are "perceived perfection or bust".

...

I still haven't mounted mine on a rifle, but I'll say this: if the long-term repeatability and durability of this scope is the same as the $300 fixed SS that we all know, then given the features, feel, and appearance of this scope as it sits on the bench, it's better than anything else you can get for the same price new.

 

[GasLight]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

This is what I see too... many people are looking for reasons to NOT like this scope. WHY?? I haven't got mine yet, but I did look through jasonk's in OR. The glass looks awesome, and that guy and Frank know their shit. Neither of them is the kind of person who will sugar coat something because of some hidden agenda... this is what made me invest in this scope. Now, can I spend the rest of my life trying to find something to dislike about it? Possibly, will it do everything that is claimed? more likely...

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GasLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is what I see too... many people are looking for reasons to NOT like this scope. WHY?? I haven't got mine yet, but I did look through jasonk's in OR. The glass looks awesome, and that guy and Frank know their shit. Neither of them is the kind of person who will sugar coat something because of some hidden agenda... this is what made me invest in this scope. Now, can I spend the rest of my life trying to find something to dislike about it? Possibly, will it do everything that is claimed? more likely...

</div></div>


Because, if you don't already know the history on Super-Sniper, they are built by Tasco. Unfortunately back in the '60's and 70's Tasco built some cheapie little .22 scopes that for most intents and purposes were nothing more than a magnified sight. They're rifle scopes were also on the lower end. That reputation has stayed with them even when they built some pretty good stuff. Of course they still go after the bottom market and that hurts their branding reputation. It's like would you buy a Cadillac if you knew that underneath the hood it was just Buick Skylark?

Things got better and they decide to try hitting the upper end. They actually did well enough to garner the Navy Seals scope demands for one or two years. Since then, competition ramped up considerably. We have had scopes come in and be obsolete in the last ten years that blow the last 60 years of scope-building totally away.

Anyhow, they keep trying, they keep doing a pretty good job. I was totally impressed with Scotty's scope that he showed us. But, they never quite get over the hump as far as what is needed. And of course, beating their own reputation. Or, beating themselves with it like a big stick. That is one of two that I know of personally out there. My Tasco World Class (built in Japan) has been a one hole scope along with my Savage .223. They may not be "the best" but they are pretty good.

Lastly, it's a huge distraction when topics get into personal piss-fights. Think of this place like it's your office if you have something to say. Keep it professional and it's a whole lot easier. Accusations and absolute statements make it tough for a lot of folks to swallow when you go to say something. I don't always live by those words but it sure is easier when I do.

 

[The King]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

Sw- the original 10x super sniper was contracted to a Japanese company to be built. Swfa now owns the rights, and tasco is out of the picture for many years.

All said- I went hands on with the SS 5-20 last week and had this in my mind when I did it:

Good scope. $800 retail best deal ever. buy one for each rifle I own. $1000 retail - good scope. Really fills a niche. $1500 retail? Huh. That's really close to a night force 5.5-22. Is it too close? Part of the issue with me demoing it is I had a new hensoldt to demo it against. That's definitely unfair.

 

[deadly0311]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

Sand......this part of your post "Because, if you don't already know the history on Super-Sniper, they are built by Tasco."

You obviously are not familiar with the SWFA SS, Tasco has absolutely nothing to do with it anymore and hasn't for a while. So before you go off saying "if you don't already know" I would make sure that I had the information correct. The difference between the Tasco SS and the SWFA SS are leaps and bounds. These scopes are a damn good good scope for the market share they are capturing right now.

 

[elephantrider]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr.M14</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Good scope. $800 retail best deal ever. buy one for each rifle I own. $1000 retail - good scope. Really fills a niche. $1500 retail? Huh. That's really close to a night force 5.5-22. Is it too close? Part of the issue with me demoing it is I had a new hensoldt to demo it against. That's definitely unfair. </div></div>

Mr.M14, What specifically about the scope has you scratching your head at the $1,500 retail price?

Yes, a NF 5.5-22 starts at close to $1,700, only $200 more than the SWFA SS 5-20, but the NF does not have mil adjustments or a mil reticle. Add another $250+ and you get mil adjustment turrets and a mil reticle. That puts you close to $2k for the NF and you still don't even have a FFP option.

Comparing it to a Hensoldt is really unfair considering the Hensoldt starts at well over $3k.

 

[neeley205]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Because, if you don't already know the history on Super-Sniper, they are built by Tasco. Unfortunately back in the '60's and 70's Tasco built some cheapie little .22 scopes that for most intents and purposes were nothing more than a magnified sight.</div></div>

You might want to verify your intel before you commit to it so completely.

"The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect." ~ Quentin Tarantino

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

Excuse me...<span style="text-decoration: underline">WERE</span> built by Tasco. I believe those were the ones the Navy used for one or two years before re-issuing the contract? And in today's day and age how can <span style="text-decoration: underline">you</span> tell which companies are/are not involved with the construction of a particular product? Do you know where every component comes from?

Never-the-less the names still remain associated and that is "WHY PEOPLE WANT TO HATE ON THEM." It's a matter of marketing and separation of one's name from what it used to be. Much like upper end Toyota's are Lexus. One name synonomous with an everybody car, the other with, "Hey guess what, Japan builds luxury automobiles, and they are really nice." Get MY point? I don't care who builds it now ...the names...they tie together...people don't always like that.

I have not ever said they were a bad scope. I've shot using a few, but never owned one. The one Scotty showed me when out in Nevada makes me say I'd like to have one. I know I'd damn sure take one over a Leupold, and probably a Burris Tactical.

FWIW, my opening sentence was not be be condescending, even if you took it that way. It was intended merely to give some background in case those who didn't know, do now.

 

[hk dave]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rancid Coolaid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Regarding Frank's hi-res screen shot, I gotta say, the Spurh mount fits the 5-20 perfectly. I have the same setup and really like the combination.

Not gonna jump in on the rest of the festivities, just wanted to say I like the Spurh and the SS5-20.</div></div>

I like em too... can't seem to find them though.

 

[Kiba]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hk dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rancid Coolaid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Regarding Frank's hi-res screen shot, I gotta say, the Spurh mount fits the 5-20 perfectly. I have the same setup and really like the combination.

Not gonna jump in on the rest of the festivities, just wanted to say I like the Spurh and the SS5-20.</div></div>

I like em too... can't seem to find them though. </div></div>

US dealer here:

http://www.tnvc.com/?catalog=1&s=spuhr

And I think there's a group buy going on in the PX...

 

[Redmanss]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hk dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rancid Coolaid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Regarding Frank's hi-res screen shot, I gotta say, the Spurh mount fits the 5-20 perfectly. I have the same setup and really like the combination.

Not gonna jump in on the rest of the festivities, just wanted to say I like the Spurh and the SS5-20.</div></div>

I like em too... can't seem to find them though. </div></div> http://www.tnvc.com/shop/category/sniper-gear/
TNVC is the US dealer for them.

ETA: Quick one Kiba!

 

[The King]

Re: the SS 5-20 Initial Impressions post got deleted?

Elephant - I know where you are coming from. I'm not slamming the SWFA 5-20. Not really - what I am saying is that the market is all over the place right now. Nobody has solidly won the battle for the $1500 rifle optic. The SWFA thinks about doing so, but it has some minor failings. The price is slightly too high at $1500 MSRP. With the deals and things that are out there it makes the best $1000/$1200 showing out there. But when the price moves fully back to $1500 it's going to be tough going.

The main reason the Nightforce is still in the picture next to the SWFA optic is it has some fairly legendary reliability.

People who point to the original 10x42 Super Sniper as making the case for the SWFA's optics are correct - with regards to the original 10x42. It was and is a tank. The newer HD optics do not appear to share erector assemblies, and in many ways the erector makes or breaks a scopes long term reliability.

Disclaimer - I have now owned 3 SWFA HD SS scopes. I have been mean to them. None have failed in any way. I don't expect them to either. I intend to order another 3-9 with the new reticle soon as it does things at a certain price that no other scope really does.