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The Ultimate Action?

K

Kotes19

Private
Minuteman
Jan 1, 2023
9
2
United States
Didn’t see any threads too similar to this so I’ll ask away

I am planning out one of my dream gun builds and have come across a harder than expected decision; choosing an action.

I’ve heard great things about many action manufacturers, but the three that sounded the best to me were Defiance, Lone Star, and Impact Precision.

I plan to use this gun in a larger caliber, either .338 Lapua, .300 Rum, or one of the Normas.

It won’t see much mud or debris

It’ll be a long range rifle

Money is no factor. I want it to be as accurate as it can, even if I pay a premium

I plan to use Bartlein barrels

I have very little hands on experience with these actions nor will I be building this rifle anytime soon, so any advice, help, or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
 
Terminus Zeus for the win. Defiance, Impact, and the Kelbly BBT were my top three until I saw Terminus Zeus has a Quick Change or Tenon barrel interface, three lug bolt, threaded trigger pins, a thicker integrated recoil lug than many other actions, Stainless receiver with DLC coating, too. 20 MOA integrated rail, and cut for AICS & AW mags. Plus Joel is a great guy and the CS rocks.
 
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Eric Cortina seams to know what it takes to win. Here’s a closeup of his action taken from his latest YouTube speed test video. He’s running a Borden. I’m not an expert but BAT or Borden seam to be solid choices.
D0EB3E46-8E41-4663-9F6E-9CE37689C1C8.jpeg
 
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Milf Dots said:
Terminus Zeus for the win. Defiance, Impact, and the Kelbly BBT were my top three until I saw Terminus Zeus has a Quick Change or Tenon barrel interface, three lug bolt, threaded trigger pins, a thicker integrated recoil lug than many other actions, Stainless receiver with DLC coating, too. 20 MOA integrated rail, and cut for AICS & AW mags. Plus Joel is a great guy and the CS rocks.
Click to expand...

I haven’t used every action out there, but this is my vote too. Love my Zeus, all 3 of my Terminus have been great.
 
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If money is no object and it won’t see much dirt and debris, I’d say Bat or Borden. I haven’t handled either but I lust over them. I don’t think defiance is worth the price increase (I have a deviant…. Great action, but for the price now, I’d look at Bat)
 
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Mentioned before, but I have seen some really good results and great rifles built with Terminus actions. They have a good variety. While not always at the top of the marketing list, BAT is a consistent great action. For .50 cal, McMillan and Cadex.
 
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Milf Dots said:
Joel did a great job on the Curtis actions before he left and founded Terminus.
Click to expand...
I thought the bolt throw was heavier than my TRG so I said meh. That Terminus is certainly a neat one, but it’s not for me.
 
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stanley_white said:
What about these three made them sound the best to you?

-Stan
Click to expand...
I’m a huge guy for aesthetics, so the beautiful machining and perfect steel/titanium was the first thing to catch my eye

I’ve also spoken to some people who know a lot more than me about actions, and (aside from price being high and low tolerance to dirt and grime) they have only had good things to say about those manufacturers

Looking at the recent Elr tournaments, it seems that a very sizable chunk of the competitors use actions from Defiance or Precision, compared to others like Bat or Kelbly.

Hopefully I was on a good track, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there are others out there that compete with these manufacturers.
 
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StaveyIL said:
Eric Cortina seams to know what it takes to win. Here’s a closeup of his action taken from his latest YouTube speed test video. He’s running a Borden. I’m not an expert but BAT or Borden seam to be solid choices.View attachment 8118335
Click to expand...
Ohhh a Near Mfg Alphamount. I got a few of those myself 💅🏻 didn’t know Cortina ran them.
 
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Impact makes a fantastic action -- very happy with mine.

But considering "money is no factor" ... and you are willing to "pay a premium" ... I say go for an AI
 
There really isn’t much difference in price between all of the usual suspects, maybe $500 or so or how custom you want to go… IMO it’s more about what features you want and whether or not you want to pay more for a integral lug (which always costs more since they need to start with a larger block of steel)?

I can/could’ve bought anything out there and ended up buying an Origin, and 3 barrels later I’d do it again.
 
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Kotes19 said:
I’m a huge guy for aesthetics, so the beautiful machining and perfect steel/titanium was the first thing to catch my eye

I’ve also spoken to some people who know a lot more than me about actions, and (aside from price being high and low tolerance to dirt and grime) they have only had good things to say about those manufacturers

Looking at the recent Elr tournaments, it seems that a very sizable chunk of the competitors use actions from Defiance or Precision, compared to others like Bat or Kelbly.

Hopefully I was on a good track, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there are others out there that compete with these manufacturers.
Click to expand...
Might want to take a look at this thread.

www.snipershide.com

Coup De Grâce, New Action from American Rifle Company, $899 WOW!

People of Earth, American Rifle Company proudly introduces the Coup De Grâce at the hard to believe introductory price of only $899. We'll be taking orders soon, probably in about eight weeks once actions are on the shelf. From the Oxford English Dictionary: e. coup de grâce n. /ku də ɡras/...
www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com

No one has one in hand yet & looks like at least a 6 month wait for a long action, but damn they’re sexy.

I ordered the day it opened. I have pretty much all of their other offerings & all have been 100% reliable for me.
Terminus Zeus is a great action & Joel is great, but I prefer the feel of the Archimedes over it. If I really wanted a quick switch Barrel the Zues would be my choice.

You said you’re wanting a Norma so I’d look at the Terminus Kratos, Kratos X, or Titan.

Here is a prototype Titan in 300 Norma.
F9FF6E19-D4D0-4DDC-BE63-70E96BC33E56.jpeg
 
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Kotes19 said:
Didn’t see any threads too similar to this so I’ll ask away

I am planning out one of my dream gun builds and have come across a harder than expected decision; choosing an action.

I’ve heard great things about many action manufacturers, but the three that sounded the best to me were Defiance, Lone Star, and Impact Precision.

I plan to use this gun in a larger caliber, either .338 Lapua, .300 Rum, or one of the Normas.

It won’t see much mud or debris

It’ll be a long range rifle

Money is no factor. I want it to be as accurate as it can, even if I pay a premium

I plan to use Bartlein barrels

I have very little hands on experience with these actions nor will I be building this rifle anytime soon, so any advice, help, or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
Based upon your description, I would suggest you look at BAT. They make actions that are very popular in the BR and F-Class disciplines.
 
How important is the action when compared to everything else? Ie a high quality barrel, bullets, etc.

Gucci rigs are great and something to be proud of and fun to own (I get it), but I'm curious if we've reached a point in action manufacturing these days where the the difference in what is subjectively characterized as "the ultimate action" is any different from your top (more readily accessible) factory actions. We know differences exist, but how much of a margin do they provide and how much does it matter on target?
 
Milf Dots said:
Terminus Zeus for the win. Defiance, Impact, and the Kelbly BBT were my top three until I saw Terminus Zeus has a Quick Change or Tenon barrel interface, three lug bolt, threaded trigger pins, a thicker integrated recoil lug than many other actions, Stainless receiver with DLC coating, too. 20 MOA integrated rail, and cut for AICS & AW mags. Plus Joel is a great guy and the CS rocks.
Click to expand...
Terminus is great until you realize it's a one man shop and if anything happens to Joel, you are fucked. This from someone who owns a terminus action.

Impact makes a better action anyway.
 
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If money is not object buy an AXSR or AXMC and be done. It’s truly the best thing you can get for shooting the big stuff. Action locks up like a vault, QC barrel, off the shelf prefits from AINA on Bartlein blanks, and gunsmiths can make whatever you want and bugholes stocks a selection of 1.350” blanks for them.

Another solid reason to go with them is the 10rd double stack mags, they are awesome and the single stacks kinda suck in comparison how they feed and how far they hang out from the rifle.
 
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Fully agree with redneckbmxer -- The only reason a man does not have an AI is money -- Fortunately for you, it is not a factor

I personally don't know anyone who has expressed regret after getting an AI
 
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I went with an AXSR for 2 primary reasons when shooting the larger calibers.

1) I like to shoot multiple large calibers. I have 300 Norma and 33xc barrels, and having a 37 XC spun up. Have shot both 338 Lapua and 338 Norma in it.

2) The Rem700 action clones with a 1.25" shank barrel are a bare minimum for the 338 class calibers in my opinion. There are those who disagree and I won't be drawn into an argument about it. I've talked to gunsmiths I trust, and done my own experimentation, and the larger action, tenon, and shank (1.35") of the AI is a better choice.

BAT also has some options where you can utilize 1.35" shank barrels, but you will lose the quick change capability.
 
Dont forget about the MRAD/Mk22 as well. Prices on barrels should come down over time and its a very sweet shooting rifle with an amazing trigger for an issue gun. Its the future of the US military sniper systems for all branches. Shot an USASOC one a few weeks ago and was super impressive, except for the mk5 glass and shitty issue ammo. With good 300 norma ammo It could be a real contendor and will save you significant money over a AXMC/SR. I would also bet there is more aftermarket and support coming out for these as well.
 
My 300 Norma Magnum was built on a Mausingfield from ARC. I don't have any first hand experience with the other receivers. My next build will probably be on a Coup receiver.

I don't have any experience with the other manufacturers. Take my opinion for what it is: some guy on the internet
 
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Bungi said:
Fully agree with redneckbmxer -- The only reason a man does not have an AI is money -- Fortunately for you, it is not a factor

I personally don't know anyone who has expressed regret after getting an AI
Click to expand...
My biggest cartridge right now is 6.5 CM but if I was jumping up to 338 etc, I wouldn't even consider anything other than an AI.

Seems like half the guys that start shooting the big cartridges realize it's not really necessary (for them) after about 200 rounds so it's nice to have something that retains it's value.
 
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Milf Dots said:
Terminus Zeus for the win. Defiance, Impact, and the Kelbly BBT were my top three until I saw Terminus Zeus has a Quick Change or Tenon barrel interface, three lug bolt, threaded trigger pins, a thicker integrated recoil lug than many other actions, Stainless receiver with DLC coating, too. 20 MOA integrated rail, and cut for AICS & AW mags. Plus Joel is a great guy and the CS rocks.
Click to expand...
Do you find many occasions where changing barrels at the range without a barrel vice and action wrench occur, that's it's worth sacrificing the integrity of the action, and and the reliability of a repeatable POI for that convenience?
I torque my barrels to 150lb/ft, and would go to a lot more if the action wrench could take it, and I take them off to clean them. Every barrel is quick change with the correct tools.
 
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The Ultimate Action? YOUR MOM!!

With that out of the way, they are all specialized. Impact is kinda the King for PRS style get shit dirty shooting. AI seems to rule the Military World. BAT and Borden rule F Class.

However even though I listed "the kings" there are many contendors, so its not "X is best" its more like X,Y,Z are the best, but Z has what I like.

60 Degree Bolt throw? Termiinus/Curtis
90 Degree Bolt Throw Impact
Interchanable Bolt Head: TLM
3 lugs/2 lugs/6 lugs
SHort ACtion/Medium Action/Long Action
Lapua Bolt Face, Standard Bolt Face?

Now if you'll excuse me, your mom is waiting and there is a line...
 
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An action is an action.
That being said, Borden seems to shoot well for me.
 
we are lucky enough that as long as you stay in the 1000+$ range...they are all good to go

firearms have become a feature and looks game, like AR's 10-15 years ago

an action is just a threaded tube screwed to a tube with threads, made of 416ss, 4140 and 2-3 other materials.. thats it

99% are r700 form factor, there is only so much that can be done in that amount of space and most of it doesnt matter at the target

reason most records are now held by "custom" actions...its not cost-effective or cool to shoot a regular 700 anymore

pick the one:
in stock-available (waiting is a waste)
common prefit tenon threads
looks
magazine cut (AICS or AW)

buy it and dont look back...the barrel is what counts anyway
 
AI has everything going for it with very little against it.

Parts are easy to get, easy to work on, really good resale value if you ever sell it. Try to sell a custom rifle with a custom action, it's a huge PITA with very little interest unless you really discount the fuck out it.
 
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Bungi said:
Fully agree with redneckbmxer -- The only reason a man does not have an AI is money -- Fortunately for you, it is not a factor

I personally don't know anyone who has expressed regret after getting an AI
Click to expand...

I disagree.

I've handled and have shot a few different models of AI's - the AT, AT-X and PSR.

Not my cup of tea. I'm personally not a fan of the ergonomics, the triggers or the bolt lift.

AI's are military rifles and designed as such. Generally not optimal for other situations.

AI's are really nice, and they do certain things right. But they aren't for everyone.
 
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Tokay444 said:
Do you find many occasions where changing barrels at the range without a barrel vice and action wrench occur, that's it's worth sacrificing the integrity of the action, and and the reliability of a repeatable POI for that convenience?
I torque my barrels to 150lb/ft, and would go to a lot more if the action wrench could take it, and I take them off to clean them. Every barrel is quick change with the correct tools.
Click to expand...
I have a trailer hitch mount with SAC modular barrel vise so I can swap barrels at the range. Depending on how far its nice to be able to swap to .223 for practice once whatever I am doing is done.

Why the fuck would you torque to 150. That is the definition of nuts. You don't even need half of that.
 
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Bacarrat said:
AI has everything going for it with very little against it.

Parts are easy to get, easy to work on, really good resale value if you ever sell it. Try to sell a custom rifle with a custom action, it's a huge PITA with very little interest unless you really discount the fuck out it.
Click to expand...
You are delusional if you think parts are easy to get. How many people waiting for .223 bolts or kits or whatever. On top that that, they change the models every couple years , so they can sell the rubes a new one that costs 20% more than the last one, that really does nothing better.

They are massively overpriced and got their asses handed to them in the last 2 US sniper rifle trials. If it wasn't for Mile High's amazing service, they would be irrelevant in the US like Sako, Steyr or Blaser.

$750-900 for a Bolt
$500 for a headpsace Go Gauge
$500 + for firing pin assembly
I could go on and on and on.

Even the new AT-X that JUST came out, is already on its 3rd generation. It costs the same or more than you can put a fully custom PRS rifle together using the best parts on the planet, and then you need to add another $1000 in weights and accessories to get it where it needs to be. Oh and you get to spend another 800-900 on a new barrel since they only come in 6 and 6.5creed, when most people want to shoot a BR, Dasher, or GT.

The only people AI makes sense for is when your employer is footing the bill. Same as Cadex. For regular joe blow, they are a terrible value and a money pit.
 
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AI makes 223 Kits? Thought that was 3rd party. Nothing to do with AI.

I would expect a company to come out with new products all the time. How else would they evolve with the business and keeps sales going? Boo on them if they are always continuing to improve and make new products.

But if you look at it in terms of parts and availability, most of the other companies have almost 0 parts availability compared to AI. MRAD/MK22 spare barrel? Only Proof or Barrett can get you those and the Proof is stupid expensive. Last time I looked it was over 2k just for the barrel. Sako with their new A1 rifles are still old school get your stupid barrel vice out and change the barrel and who makes the barrels again? That's going to be a custom job for sure. Oh you want barrels for a Cadex? You can only get that through Cadex.

As for value for dollar, I would still say a AI would be easier to sell anyday then a custom rifle built to the original end users specs. I would bet any money I would lose about 0 dollars if I wanted to sell my MC or AW.
 
Bungi said:
Fully agree with redneckbmxer -- The only reason a man does not have an AI is money -- Fortunately for you, it is not a factor
Click to expand...

I think the worst thing about owning AIs is being associated with dumb statements like this.

I own two, and can easily see why people would prefer other options - ergonomics, trigger, bolt feel, customization options.

I love my AIs, but goddamn, they’re just another gun at the end of the day…
 
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I like my AI. But for whatever reason it craters primers on light loads no matter what. Comp trigger is kinda lame. Guess you have to clean them? Who knew. Bolt lift is stiff but it’s whatever. I’m not opposed to seeing it go, but until I have some time behind a couple other stocks, I’ll probably hold on to it.

That being said, the defiances I’ve handled haven’t been “blow me away” good. Terminus, Curtis, Impact, Origin, Lone Peak, and Kelblys have all felt really nice and I would go impact if doing another r700 build.
 
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Why not a tubb gun if you want to shoot long distance. It has a faster lock time than everything listed
 
For a guy who wants to talk about an action building for these large calibers most guys at that level know a lot about the actions currently available. I don't know your history or background but I would take a pause. Like CaptArab said in post # 29 a lot of guys end up selling after a couple hundred rounds of these large calibers. I don't know what action is best for you but you need to have an honest conversation with yourself about these mega calibers. Like I said I don't know your history but I do recommend that you take pause. These calibers aren't for everyone and aren't required for anything but the most extreme circumstances.
 
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I own quite a few custom actions and have shot/handled a few others. Any of the top names will be good. Pick the features you want, the looks you want and run with it.

Impact runs the prs game
Bat/Borden run benchrest/f-class.

They are all nice, I have a few preferences but they all work. Just depends on what you like.
 
swampbuck said:
For a guy who wants to talk about an action building for these large calibers most guys at that level know a lot about the actions currently available. I don't know your history or background but I would take a pause. Like CaptArab said in post # 29 a lot of guys end up selling after a couple hundred rounds of these large calibers. I don't know what action is best for you but you need to have an honest conversation with yourself about these mega calibers. Like I said I don't know your history but I do recommend that you take pause. These calibers aren't for everyone and aren't required for anything but the most extreme circumstances.
Click to expand...

I agree, I think most guys should let their usual range/club or where and what distances they like to shoot the most as their guide as to what cartridge to build their be-all-end-all rifle around.

For a guy whose club only goes out to 600 yards or so a .223 would be my choice as far as fun + challenging at times, out to 1200ish maybe a 6mm or 6.5... my club goes out to 1250 and IMO a .338 or .300RUM would be almost too easy on most days and wouldn't even be challenging enough to be worth what it costs to really shoot it.
 
DeathBeforeDismount said:
I have a trailer hitch mount with SAC modular barrel vise so I can swap barrels at the range. Depending on how far its nice to be able to swap to .223 for practice once whatever I am doing is done.

Why the fuck would you torque to 150. That is the definition of nuts. You don't even need half of that.
Click to expand...
You know critical torque for a 1.062”x16TPI thread starts at over 1000ft/lbs, right? 150 is the absolute minimum. IYKYK
 


For all the AI fanbois.....

As for ultimate action? The don't exist. They only appear that way to you. Chev vs Ford, ETC... it's all subjective. Find the feature set you want and roll with it.
 
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For a Norma or Lapua, you want an 1-1/8" tenon thready with 1.250 barrel shank no matter what. I'd eliminate any consideration without it. 4" action cut. I went Bat, and am totally satisfied with the action. I have owned most options available other than Defiance.
 
4O6shootist said:
For a Norma or Lapua, you want an 1-1/8" tenon thready with 1.250 barrel shank no matter what. I'd eliminate any consideration without it. 4" action cut. I went Bat, and am totally satisfied with the action. I have owned most options available other than Defiance.
Click to expand...
You can also go with a HV, which is like 5" of full shank before taper. It will help with increasing wall thickness between chamber/throat.
 
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