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Rifle Scopes The Vortex blues.

XP1K

XP1K

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Minuteman
Jul 20, 2017
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Texas
I've got three 6-24x viper pst's all about to head back to vortex. One is around four or five years old, the other two are 7-8 years old iirc.

Two are showing black spots in the glass. One has small spots, counted 19 looking at the sky before I stopped looking. The other one has less spots but bigger. One of those two has been back to vortex once already due to tracking issues. These two scopes have been on my pws mk216, R700 LTR in 308 and one is on a custom R700 in 300 win mag.

The newest one of the bunch spent a little time on an m1a, <100 rounds, then was moved to my vudoo. Got caught in the rain the other day and it fogged internally.

I emailed vortex and as usual they are taking care of the issue quickly and painlessly. Although I'm still thinking about getting away from vortex after I get them back.

What are some good options in the sub $1,100 range ?

Been looking at athlons.
 
Believe all three of mine came out of the Phillipines.
 

Product Description

Product Description | Camera Land NY
cameralandny.com cameralandny.com

There were great deals on these from Midway but those seem to be gone. That ones not a bad price. Heavy and relatively narrow fov but should hold up to the recoil. They're Japanese made. By LOW I believe but maybe someone else can confirm.
 
Try and snag some Athlon Cornus BTR's on the PX. They just came out with the gen 2 so a couples places were closing out the gen 1's for $1150. You should easily be able to snag a couple for less than $1100 on the PX. There may even be a few places that have leftovers.

The gen 2 update was just adding a new reticle and a change to the turrets to make them a little more tactile.
 
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GreenMushroom said:
Where were the xtrii made? I read the 1-8 was made by Low but the 3-15 were Philippine made?
Click to expand...

Yes, the 1-8 was from LOW, the XTRII is from the Phillipines. They've been making it there for about 7 years.

Just about anything in the $1100 price point is going to be Chinese or otherwise. Its worth it to spend just a little more.
 
Birddog6424 said:
Yes, the 1-8 was from LOW, the XTRII is from the Phillipines. They've been making it there for about 7 years.

Just about anything in the $1100 price point is going to be Chinese or otherwise. Its worth it to spend just a little more.
Click to expand...

Brownells' MPO
Sightron SIII (PLR should be in that range)
Riton X7
Bushnell LRHS2
Bushnell DMR2
Crimson Trace 5 series (closeouts)
Sig Tango6
 
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When I started this PRS journey a bit over a year ago I had a budget in mind for a scope. I looked at the Vortex Viper PST for quite a while, the Strike Eagle also.

I pulled the trigger on a Brownell's MPO and am VERY glad I did! Black Friday deal last year 899.99$
 
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iceng said:
Wait. 7-8 year old scopes, replacing them under warranty, and you want to move away from them ? Wtf is wrong with you ?
Click to expand...
Yeah I know. It's not like they've really given me a bad service life. One went back right after I got it, now it's going again. I think that's what's got me down on vortex at the moment.
 
iceng said:
Wait. 7-8 year old scopes, replacing them under warranty, and you want to move away from them ? Wtf is wrong with you ?
Click to expand...
As someone that has had to warranty NF, Kahles, and Leupold for factory defects, an optic failing from general use is going to leave a sour taste in most mouths....especially 3 of them.

Neurotic said:
Are all of your posts advertisements for Arken?
Click to expand...
Probably an Arken employee lucky the cats haven't caught on.
 
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I’d recommend checking with Scott at Liberty Optics about a gen 2 Razor. Really not much above your stated budget and they are truly amazing for the money. I just received one from him a few weeks ago. I had to stretch my budget a little, but it’s well worth it.
 
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Doug @cameralandny.com had the Cronus gen2 for $ 1399 a couple of days ago, I couldn't resist.
Received it Monday and like it a lot, also made by LOW I've read.
 
Hi,

Is that what we are discussing??

1624459602140.png


Sincerely,
Theis
 
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XP1K said:
Yeah I know. It's not like they've really given me a bad service life. One went back right after I got it, now it's going again. I think that's what's got me down on vortex at the moment.
Click to expand...
Have you noticed the most issues coming from shooting on the PWS 216 .308 gas gun, because that will beat an optic hard, no matter who makes it.

For a large frame AR-10 type gasser, especially with an external piston system, I have recommended for many years to not buy below a Viper PST Gen II with the epoxied internals, a Razor, NF, or any similarly-assembled LOW out of Japan scope.

If you want to destroy a scope, mount it to an AR-10 and run volume through it.

I personally have had no failures with PST Gen Is on my .260 AR-10 or Grendels for some reason.

That closeout deal from Crimson Trace with the LOW-built series 5 is great, but you won’t get a replacement of the same if anything breaks. They’ve switched to Philippine manufacture on their new line.

I would not look for a sub-$1100 top end 24x magnification optic for the P216 if you want it to hold up.

For bolt guns, you can find compromise glass all day in that price range and be happy until your eyes start crapping out after age 40.

For the AR-10, you need something built like a tank with epoxied optical modules and lenses, with quality gears and turrets, otherwise it will shake loose.
 
LRRPF52 said:
Have you noticed the most issues coming from shooting on the PWS 216 .308 gas gun, because that will beat an optic hard, no matter who makes it.

For a large frame AR-10 type gasser, especially with an external piston system, I have recommended for many years to not buy below a Viper PST Gen II with the epoxied internals, a Razor, NF, or any similarly-assembled LOW out of Japan scope.

If you want to destroy a scope, mount it to an AR-10 and run volume through it.

I personally have had no failures with PST Gen Is on my .260 AR-10 or Grendels for some reason.

That closeout deal from Crimson Trace with the LOW-built series 5 is great, but you won’t get a replacement of the same if anything breaks. They’ve switched to Philippine manufacture on their new line.

I would not look for a sub-$1100 top end 24x magnification optic for the P216 if you want it to hold up.

For bolt guns, you can find compromise glass all day in that price range and be happy until your eyes start crapping out after age 40.

For the AR-10, you need something built like a tank with epoxied optical modules and lenses, with quality gears and turrets, otherwise it will shake loose.
Click to expand...
The vortex on the pws started out on my 700 LTR in 308. I moved it to the pws later in life then put a leupold vx3i lrp 4.5-14x on the pws and moved the vortex back to the 700. This scope went back when it was new because it wouldn't group on a known shooter, wouldn't track and the eyebox was very critical. Vortex said the ocular ring was loose. Has tracked fine and held zero ever since, just has black spots in it now.

The one on the win mag has the biggest black spots in it. That gun weighs 13lbs and has a good brake on it. I think we measured recoil on it right at 10 ft-lbs. With a 200gr bullet. So I don't think recoil was it's issue.

Talked to a friend of mine last night. He has one on a 700P in 308, purchased about a year after mine. Said his is doing the same thing.
 
iceng said:
Wait. 7-8 year old scopes, replacing them under warranty, and you want to move away from them ? Wtf is wrong with you ?
Click to expand...

Quoting this again because it needs to be repeated.

And it should be emphasized that we're talking about legacy scopes models that have been discontinued and out of production for more than 5 years. Vortex is not only taking them back, but will likely replace them with new Gen II PST scopes that are a significant improvement over the old scopes that the OP is returning under warranty (in features, quality of build, quality of glass, reticles design, pretty much everything).
 
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GreenMushroom said:
Vortex doesn't make scopes. If you're not happy with that scope find out where it was made and don't buy anything made there. You could easily switch brand names and end up with a scope from the same factory that made your pst.
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Same factory doesn't mean same quality. LOW makes scopes for Nightforce and Cabela's.
LRRPF52 said:
That closeout deal from Crimson Trace with the LOW-built series 5 is great, but you won’t get a replacement of the same if anything breaks. They’ve switched to Philippine manufacture on their new line.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure they are made by JOL
 
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How are the nightforce shv's? The 4-14x F1 specifically. Friend of mine runs a small local gun shop has them for $919. Said he could probably come off a little more. Thinking about one for the pws. Which is at pws at the moment.

I moved the LRP off the pws over to the vudoo last night and in its current configuration with 30 moa in the base/rings I can dial 72 moa up. And it has 60 moa in the reticle. So it may stay right where it's at.
 
srt-4_uk said:
Same factory doesn't mean same quality. LOW makes scopes for Nightforce and Cabela's.
Click to expand...

I'm aware. I have 3 different LOW scopes from different manufacturers and they are all solid with nice glass. Not saying they're the best scopes but they're probably the best bang for the buck especially if you bargain hunt for discontinued models.
 
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I’ve owned 3 vortex. (2 pst and 1 HS) Had tracking issues and failed parallax with 2/3. Vortex did take care of me very well

I had the Gen 1 scopes. Have also had several Sightron SIII since that time that have seen a lot of shooting on AR’s up to 338 LM without issue

I have the Cronus BTR Gen 1. Excellent scope so far. Great glass, tracking etc. Its on a 300 WM and has already outlasted the round count of every vortex I owned combined

It’s a well known that if you want quality from vortex (if you actually plan to use the optic) you need to step to the Razor line. Even those have had there issues but there’s a ton of them in the prs world so they do have a reputation for holding up. The latest failed vortex I personally witnessed was a Golden Eagle during practice for a 1,000 yd f-class match

For $1100, Athlon Cronus BTR, watch the px here and you’ll find one in that price range.

As far as selling your PST’s. You may have to part with 2 to get the Cronus. Or all 3 to try the Cronus Gen II.
 
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SRPowah said:
As someone that has had to warranty NF, Kahles, and Leupold for factory defects, an optic failing from general use is going to leave a sour taste in most mouths....especially 3 of them.


Probably an Arken employee lucky the cats haven't caught on.
Click to expand...
A good friend of mine works there. I am just tying to help out where I can. I own and use Arken Optics, and I believe in them. Experience is the proof for me.
 
Friend of mine has an early arken EP4 ? On a 28 nosler and he likes it. Rifle is a christensen arms. He went with the arken mainly because it was compact and relatively lightweight.
 
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z71rat said:
A good friend of mine works there. I am just tying to help out where I can. I own and use Arken Optics, and I believe in them. Experience is the proof for me.
Click to expand...

Did you just admit to being a shill?

That would explain all the copy pasta endorsements...
 

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XP1K said:
How are the nightforce shv's? The 4-14x F1 specifically. Friend of mine runs a small local gun shop has them for $919. Said he could probably come off a little more. Thinking about one for the pws. Which is at pws at the moment.

I moved the LRP off the pws over to the vudoo last night and in its current configuration with 30 moa in the base/rings I can dial 72 moa up. And it has 60 moa in the reticle. So it may stay right where it's at.
Click to expand...
Had an SHV years ago. Nice optic for the money. My only gripe is the FOV is small. But that may not bother like it did with me.
 
XP1K said:
I've got three 6-24x viper pst's all about to head back to vortex. One is around four or five years old, the other two are 7-8 years old iirc.

Two are showing black spots in the glass. One has small spots, counted 19 looking at the sky before I stopped looking. The other one has less spots but bigger. One of those two has been back to vortex once already due to tracking issues. These two scopes have been on my pws mk216, R700 LTR in 308 and one is on a custom R700 in 300 win mag.

The newest one of the bunch spent a little time on an m1a, <100 rounds, then was moved to my vudoo. Got caught in the rain the other day and it fogged internally.

I emailed vortex and as usual they are taking care of the issue quickly and painlessly. Although I'm still thinking about getting away from vortex after I get them back.

What are some good options in the sub $1,100 range ?

Been looking at athlons.
Click to expand...
I have a 6x24 Viper and I don't like it, all my other Vortex scopes are great except, I bought the Golden Eagle and sent it back. Seems they do better with lower mag scopes. Leupold, Nightforce............
 
As many have already mentioned, I’d pickup a used Athlon Cronus if I were you. Haven’t been impressed with anything Vortex, besides their customer service of course.

I recently sold off a Razor AMG for the Gen 2 Cronus and I don’t feel that I “traded down” whatsoever.
 
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longjon said:
I have a 6x24 Viper and I don't like it, all my other Vortex scopes are great except, I bought the Golden Eagle and sent it back. Seems they do better with lower mag scopes. Leupold, Nightforce............
Click to expand...
The vx3i lrp that I have eats the vortex alive in low light situations. I can see to shoot right up to dark with the leupold. The vortex usually gives up about twenty minutes sooner in the evenings. Leupold doesn't have illumination though, if it just had that it would be fantastic.

For some reason leupold dropped the 4.5-14x lrp from production. They still offer a 6.5-20 and a 8.5-25. That would be fine on my win mag but I'd like to drop back to at least 4x minimum on my 308.
 
YotaEer said:
As many have already mentioned, I’d pickup a used Athlon Cronus if I were you. Haven’t been impressed with anything Vortex, besides their customer service of course.

I recently sold off a Razor AMG for the Gen 2 Cronus and I don’t feel that I “traded down” whatsoever.
Click to expand...
Wow, that says a lot for the cronus.
 
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XP1K said:
Wow, that says a lot for the cronus.
Click to expand...

I replaced a Gen 1 Cronus BTR with the AMG and I would say that was a trade up, especially in the turret department.

the new turrets and APRS6 reticle on the Gen 2 BTR are fantastic.
 
XP1K said:
I've got three 6-24x viper pst's all about to head back to vortex. One is around four or five years old, the other two are 7-8 years old iirc.

Two are showing black spots in the glass. One has small spots, counted 19 looking at the sky before I stopped looking. The other one has less spots but bigger. One of those two has been back to vortex once already due to tracking issues. These two scopes have been on my pws mk216, R700 LTR in 308 and one is on a custom R700 in 300 win mag.

The newest one of the bunch spent a little time on an m1a, <100 rounds, then was moved to my vudoo. Got caught in the rain the other day and it fogged internally.

I emailed vortex and as usual they are taking care of the issue quickly and painlessly. Although I'm still thinking about getting away from vortex after I get them back.

What are some good options in the sub $1,100 range ?

Been looking at athlons.
Click to expand...
I have an Athlon and LIKE it. I also have a Razor gen 2 4.5-27×56 and a Leupold 7.5-35×56 Mark 5 HD.
 
Neurotic said:
Did you just admit to being a shill?

That would explain all the copy pasta endorsements...
Click to expand...
Read each and every one of my replies. There is no copy and paste to them. I write each reply to the specific question or comparisons. Call me a shill if you will. I have been running Arken Optics since the very 1st Gen 1 4-14 optic was produced. I then ran an EP4 for quite some time on my comp rifle where I took several 1st through 5th place finishes in the Rifle Sportsman’s Club steel challenge.

I now also own one of the new SH4 Gen2 4-16 rifle scopes, and I am waiting for my Gen2 6-24 to ship. I will be swapping my Arkens around to also include my gas gun, and also my subsonic rifles as well.

I use Arken, I believe in Arken, I am friends with someone from Arken, and I talk them up as much as I possibly can!! Yes, I am trying to help them boost their sales, as I hope they stay around for a long time to come. Arken has brought an awesome scope to those that can’t afford a $2000 or $3,000 piece of glass, and they are ringing steel at a mile with them. So, with that said, feel free to call me a shill. That’s fine with me. My integrity is intact, and I will continue promote the companies that I believe in, beit Arken Optics or otherwise.

p.s.- I also buy my Arken Optics scopes with my own money. No handouts.

DK
 
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XP1K said:
Friend of mine has an early arken EP4 ? On a 28 nosler and he likes it. Rifle is a christensen arms. He went with the arken mainly because it was compact and relatively lightweight.
Click to expand...
My EP4 4-16 has great glass in it. Even as old as it is, and as much use I have put it through, it is extremely dependable!!

DK
 
z71rat said:
Read each and every one of my replies. There is no copy and paste to them. I write each reply to the specific question or comparisons. Call me a shill if you will. I have been running Arken Optics since the very 1st Gen 1 4-14 optic was produced. I then ran an EP4 for quite some time on my comp rifle where I took several 1st through 5th place finishes in the Rifle Sportsman’s Club steel challenge.

I now also own one of the new SH4 Gen2 4-16 rifle scopes, and I am waiting for my Gen2 6-24 to ship. I will be swapping my Arkens around to also include my gas gun, and also my subsonic rifles as well.

I use Arken, I believe in Arken, I am friends with someone from Arken, and I talk them up as much as I possibly can!! Yes, I am trying to help them boost their sales, as I hope they stay around for a long time to come. Arken has brought an awesome scope to those that can’t afford a $2000 or $3,000 piece of glass, and they are ringing steel at a mile with them. So, with that said, feel free to call me a shill. That’s fine with me. My integrity is intact, and I will continue promote the companies that I believe in, beit Arken Optics or otherwise.

p.s.- I also buy my Arken Optics scopes with my own money. No handouts.

DK
Click to expand...

From Wiki, since everyone understands Wiki:
A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps or gives credibility to a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with said person or organization.

So, you post nearly the same message (since you haven't mastered the fine art of copy pasta) without regard for what the poster is looking for, in multiple threads at a time, partially because you want your buddies business to do well (which you don't disclose). That's pretty much textbook shill behavior...

z71rat said:
My EP4 4-16 has great glass in it. Even as old as it is, and as much use I have put it through, it is extremely dependable!!

DK
Click to expand...

Good job staying on message.
 
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