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The war in Ukraine and Donbas

Dang that had some good stuff in it. Oh well new start.

That video in the old thread with the wounded.....that was pretty powerful, I could smell it. Had to turn it off and I can take, or thought I could take a bit...guess some things never leave you.

There was an old TV show called Boardwalk Empire. Really about Atlantic city in the 20's. A couple of the people in the movie are vets from WWI. Some very damaged people. I only made it so far into that movie as well, it is quite well done IMHO, give it a look if you get a chance.

This is a scene when the two vets meet each other for the first time. I find it quite powerful.



I saw that video in the old thread and realized you will never be undamaged. Someone told me you take it put it in a box in the back of your head and lock it up tight, never to open it again. He never said the outside world would try to open it time to time.

Me I still have 10 fingers and toes, I can't imagine that soldier missing a jaw, or richard missing half his face. I really wish it would come to an end. Or better yet put a rifle in the hands of those really responsible for this mess.
 
Touted first hits on Leopard tanks ,might be just John Deere farming machinery

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I get that there is a war going on there but always thought it was just another way for joe biden to funnel money from the taxpayers into his pocket somehow .
My favorite Ukrainian is that farmer repo guy who stole all those pieces of russian armored equipment with just his tractor . God bless him who ever he is he is one of my hero's .
 
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This war has been going on too long already, could somebody please turn the Ukraine into a parking lot so we can stop sending money to one of the most corrupt governments in the world and stop funding Xiden's family kickback scheme?
 
So where is this Ukrainian counteroffensive we’ve heard so much about lately?
 
The last thread had a healthy discourse; ruined by one troll? Shame. Doesn't look like he was banned though...

Wait, wasn't that the 2nd Ukraine thread to get locked? Pretty sure it was, this one is starting the 3rd.
 
I still don't know what to think about this whole mess.

On one hand:
1. We made promises to Ukraine to protect their sovereignty if they gave up their nukes. If we continue to break our word, as happened in Afghanistan, who will ever ally with us again?
2. Bankrolling Ukraine has exposed Russia for what it is, a 3rd world nation with a horseshit military, and nukes. Nowhere close to a superpower.
3. When China considers taking Taiwan, they HAVE to be looking at the now apparent weakness of their ally Russia and be thinking "shit."
4. There are ordinary people in Ukraine fighting for their freedom, and freedom has always been a cause the U.S. supports.

But on the other hand:
1. We can't afford to bankroll this shit, we have our own financial problems to worry about.
2. Ukraine isn't our ally by any stretch, its a black cesspool of kickbacks and corruption.
3. This is NATO's problem, let NATO handle their own bullshit for once and just do our part.
4. Pissing off Russia drives them to get into bed with China. It's better for the U.S. if China and Russia dislike each other.
5. Nuclear war is bad.

Usually I find issues pretty easy to judge, but this one has been tough. Partly because nobody knows what's true and what is bullshit anymore.
 
I still don't know what to think about this whole mess.

On one hand:
1. We made promises to Ukraine to protect their sovereignty if they gave up their nukes. If we continue to break our word, as happened in Afghanistan, who will ever ally with us again?
2. Bankrolling Ukraine has exposed Russia for what it is, a 3rd world nation with a horseshit military, and nukes. Nowhere close to a superpower.
3. When China considers taking Taiwan, they HAVE to be looking at the now apparent weakness of their ally Russia and be thinking "shit."
4. There are ordinary people in Ukraine fighting for their freedom, and freedom has always been a cause the U.S. supports.

But on the other hand:
1. We can't afford to bankroll this shit, we have our own financial problems to worry about.
2. Ukraine isn't our ally by any stretch, its a black cesspool of kickbacks and corruption.
3. This is NATO's problem, let NATO handle their own bullshit for once and just do our part.
4. Pissing off Russia drives them to get into bed with China. It's better for the U.S. if China and Russia dislike each other.
5. Nuclear war is bad.

Usually I find issues pretty easy to judge, but this one has been tough. Partly because nobody knows what's true and what is bullshit anymore.
If Ukraine had not given up the nuclear capability they inherited they would not be in this particular mess today.

Never, ever, disarm.
 
If Ukraine had not given up the nuclear capability they inherited they would not be in this particular mess today.

Never, ever, disarm.

If the CIA hadn't plotted, started and done a false flag coup none of this mess would be going on in the Ukraine.
All those "colour revolutions"... pure CIA just like the "arab spring" B.S.
 
My UKR friends are very pro independence, and anti Russian aggression. I am with them. They have also for years have complained about the deep, entrenched corruption. NATO is not paying their part, and they need Russia out of Ukraine more than we do. I support Ukraine, we should give them some help, but zero dollars. Most likely some of the dollars are being funneled back to the Dems, and they will use it to try to steal the next election. 10% for the Big Guy, one way or the other.
 
If the CIA hadn't plotted, started and done a false flag coup none of this mess would be going on in the Ukraine.
All those "colour revolutions"... pure CIA just like the "arab spring" B.S.
I was listening to Savage today and he had a guest on that stated Soros had a hand in some of the color revolutions that happened in Ukraine as well.
 
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I still don't know what to think about this whole mess.

On one hand:
1. We made promises to Ukraine to protect their sovereignty if they gave up their nukes. If we continue to break our word, as happened in Afghanistan, who will ever ally with us again?
2. Bankrolling Ukraine has exposed Russia for what it is, a 3rd world nation with a horseshit military, and nukes. Nowhere close to a superpower.
3. When China considers taking Taiwan, they HAVE to be looking at the now apparent weakness of their ally Russia and be thinking "shit."
4. There are ordinary people in Ukraine fighting for their freedom, and freedom has always been a cause the U.S. supports.

But on the other hand:
1. We can't afford to bankroll this shit, we have our own financial problems to worry about.
2. Ukraine isn't our ally by any stretch, its a black cesspool of kickbacks and corruption.
3. This is NATO's problem, let NATO handle their own bullshit for once and just do our part.
4. Pissing off Russia drives them to get into bed with China. It's better for the U.S. if China and Russia dislike each other.
5. Nuclear war is bad.

Usually I find issues pretty easy to judge, but this one has been tough. Partly because nobody knows what's true and what is bullshit anymore.
Fuuuuuuck.. Same old mainstream talking points (on one hand part). Do we really have to go over it again?
 
Fuuuuuuck.. Same old mainstream talking points (on one hand part). Do we really have to go over it again?
Yes, please do. The “pros” I listed for helping Ukraine may or may not be talking points, I don’t really care. They are true. We absolutely promised to protect Ukraine from Russia in exchange for giving up nukes. The war has undeniably shown Russia to be much weaker than thought. I’m sure China loves depending on weak allies, and in the middle are normal nobody Ukrainians dying for freedom from Russia.

The floor is yours..
 
, and in the middle are normal nobody Ukrainians dying for freedom from Russia. to make the arms corporations filthy rich, help politicians get billions of dollars into their personal slush funds and help the New World Order bring about starvation and economic collapse so the "New Global Order" can emerge.

The floor is yours..

Fixed it for you.
 
This war has been going on too long already, could somebody please turn the Ukraine into a parking lot so we can stop sending money to one of the most corrupt governments in the world and stop funding Xiden's family kickback scheme?
What makes you think that would stop these crooked shits from sending money over there to be laundered? Hell it would probably increase. You know, need to fund the rebuild and all.
 
Yes, please do. The “pros” I listed for helping Ukraine may or may not be talking points, I don’t really care. They are true. We absolutely promised to protect Ukraine from Russia in exchange for giving up nukes. The war has undeniably shown Russia to be much weaker than thought. I’m sure China loves depending on weak allies, and in the middle are normal nobody Ukrainians dying for freedom from Russia.

The floor is yours..
What makes you think Russia aint holding back big time in order to be prepared for possible/inevitable war with us?
 
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While reading the article, I could feel myself getting dumber by the paragraph. By the end, I felt I couldn't get any stupider.

But, then I started reading the comments and my IQ is now hovering around 40.

This is what passes for "thought" in today's climate.

As for this Ukraine/Russia thing supposedly demonstrating Russia's "weak-ass military" I wouldn't be so certain of that. I think there is enough evidence this slow grind could be argued as a deliberate strategy that allows much of the West to weaken themselves financially, socially, and also demonstrates Western weakness as they trumpet their propaganda of sending billions $ worth of "advanced weaponry" only to see it blasted into dust.

Russia gets to watch as the average Western citizen watches billions of $ taken from their pockets by their government to funnel to the Ukraine trough, furthering strife and anger throughout the populace. Russia gets to watch the propaganda blow up in the West's face each passing week, again angering any citizen that begins to realize the swindle and other countries begin to think "paper tiger."

Russia may be losing some men and material, but I don't think it's even close to what everyone else is losing.
 
Yes, please do. The “pros” I listed for helping Ukraine may or may not be talking points, I don’t really care. They are true. We absolutely promised to protect Ukraine from Russia in exchange for giving up nukes. The war has undeniably shown Russia to be much weaker than thought. I’m sure China loves depending on weak allies, and in the middle are normal nobody Ukrainians dying for freedom from Russia.

The floor is yours..
What makes you think Russia is weak? They are destroying a large Nato backed and trained military with a fraction of the budget. They are killing Ukrainian adversaries at an estimated ratio of 8-1 without mass civilian casualties. I’m not a military expert obviously but this seems substantial.

If you want to cast blame, look no further than the US gov’t. This is where some of the worst mass murderers and armed robbers in the world gather.
 
looks like even zelensky supporters not happy about it....

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This article is almost a year old but I remember in the old Ukraine thread a discussion regarding Russias heavy use of artillery and how it seemed antiquated but yet effective against a more “high tech“ NATO/US backed Ukraine.
 
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This article is almost a year old but I remember in the old Ukraine thread a discussion regarding Russias heavy use of artillery and how it seemed antiquated but yet effective against more “high tech“ NATO/US backed Ukraine.
A buddy of mine retired from the army in 2014, but did years as a battery commander for field artillery. In conversations he told me that current military thinking is that artillery is antiquated, but he still contends that artillery won wars in the past, and is still necessary to win wars today, despite "advanced tech." However, not as much funding and resources are devoted to it in U.S. military today, because "antiquated." He also told me that the Russians never gave up on the idea of the importance of artillery, and devote much training and funding to keep their artillery strong and supplied and that their artillery outmatches anyone in the world, including the U.S. Over the course of the Ukraine war, he has not been surprised how effective it has proved to be.
 
What makes you think Russia aint holding back big time in order to be prepared for possible/inevitable war with us?

I don't think Russia plans to go on toe to toe conventional war with the USA.
If the USA attacks Russia, I think the Russians will have to go Nuclear and let the chips fall where they may.

Whatever the true state of the Russian army is, Russia is getting a very expensive but long overdue lesson in what modern wars are going to look like.
China is getting the lesson for free by sitting back as an observer.
I'm sure China is learning as much as they possibly can and using that to fine tune their plans.
Eventually the Russians will learn what they need to learn and one day be able to build their military back better.

I suspect this war is going to probably hasten the demise of spending tons on heavy armoured stuff and kick drones, AI drones, AI missiles and such into overdrive.
 
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This article is almost a year old but I remember in the old Ukraine thread a discussion regarding Russias heavy use of artillery and how it seemed antiquated but yet effective against more “high tech“ NATO/US backed Ukraine.
supposedly, the russians are firing 10 rounds for every 1 from the ukranian side, or something terrible like that.
the ukrainians themselves have been saying that since near the beginning.
 
A buddy of mine retired from the army in 2014, but did years as a battery commander for field artillery. In conversations he told me that current military thinking is that artillery is antiquated, but he still contends that artillery won wars in the past, and is still necessary to win wars today, despite "advanced tech." However, not as much funding and resources are devoted to it in U.S. military today, because "antiquated." He also told me that the Russians never gave up on the idea of the importance of artillery, and devote much training and funding to keep their artillery strong and supplied and that their artillery outmatches anyone in the world, including the U.S. Over the course of the Ukraine war, he has not been surprised how effective it has proved to be.
there's a reason we call it the "king of battle" and the Russians called it "the God of War"
 
Nordstream part two. There's no way to make a legit argument that Russia would do this to themselves.
The people behind the curtain trying to get a global coalition to rid the planet of Putin on the other hand .
Of course an army on the defense would never flood their territory...

"Also, the German army destroyed docks and bridges to flood the country and impede the Allied advance. This led to significant amount of land, particularly in the north and west, up to 250.000 hectare in total, to become flooded, further distorting supply routes and isolating regions from each other."

BTW....booo!

th
 
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A buddy of mine retired from the army in 2014, but did years as a battery commander for field artillery. In conversations he told me that current military thinking is that artillery is antiquated, but he still contends that artillery won wars in the past, and is still necessary to win wars today, despite "advanced tech." However, not as much funding and resources are devoted to it in U.S. military today, because "antiquated." He also told me that the Russians never gave up on the idea of the importance of artillery, and devote much training and funding to keep their artillery strong and supplied and that their artillery outmatches anyone in the world, including the U.S. Over the course of the Ukraine war, he has not been surprised how effective it has proved to be.
If you read Hubert Meyers books about the 12th SS in Normandy it quickly becomes apparent that any use of tanks resulted in damage or destruction by allied artillery, loses to aircraft or allied tanks were comparatively rare.

The real kicker here though is that without armour, infantry can be pinned in place and destroyed at leisure by artillery.
 
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