The war in Ukraine and Donbas

[MK20]

While reading the article, I could feel myself getting dumber by the paragraph. By the end, I felt I couldn't get any stupider.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/06/06/ukraine-counteroffensive-crimea-russia/

But, then I started reading the comments and my IQ is now hovering around 40.

This is what passes for "thought" in today's climate.

As for this Ukraine/Russia thing supposedly demonstrating Russia's "weak-ass military" I wouldn't be so certain of that. I think there is enough evidence this slow grind could be argued as a deliberate strategy that allows much of the West to weaken themselves financially, socially, and also demonstrates Western weakness as they trumpet their propaganda of sending billions $ worth of "advanced weaponry" only to see it blasted into dust.

Russia gets to watch as the average Western citizen watches billions of $ taken from their pockets by their government to funnel to the Ukraine trough, furthering strife and anger throughout the populace. Russia gets to watch the propaganda blow up in the West's face each passing week, again angering any citizen that begins to realize the swindle and other countries begin to think "paper tiger."

Russia may be losing some men and material, but I don't think it's even close to what everyone else is losing.

It is widely reported that Russia is just expending its criminal population and less professional forces at this stage in the war. They are also emptying depots of old materiel instead of depleting their top of the line equipment.

They can afford to let the Ukranians expend all their (our) cool tech taking out early cold war tanks while the more professional Russian big Army units sit back and laugh. Ever notice how well educated Russians don't seem worried at all about the draft right now? Wonder why.

They are also using this war to train up their Spetsnaz forces. Their guys are getting trigger time and developing new tactics.

The Russian arty is also reported to be pure hell in its volume and consistency.

Continuing this war is foolish.

 

[xciapup]

I still don't know what to think about this whole mess.

On one hand:
1. We made promises to Ukraine to protect their sovereignty if they gave up their nukes. If we continue to break our word, as happened in Afghanistan, who will ever ally with us again?
2. Bankrolling Ukraine has exposed Russia for what it is, a 3rd world nation with a horseshit military, and nukes. Nowhere close to a superpower.
3. When China considers taking Taiwan, they HAVE to be looking at the now apparent weakness of their ally Russia and be thinking "shit."
4. There are ordinary people in Ukraine fighting for their freedom, and freedom has always been a cause the U.S. supports.

But on the other hand:
1. We can't afford to bankroll this shit, we have our own financial problems to worry about.
2. Ukraine isn't our ally by any stretch, its a black cesspool of kickbacks and corruption.
3. This is NATO's problem, let NATO handle their own bullshit for once and just do our part.
4. Pissing off Russia drives them to get into bed with China. It's better for the U.S. if China and Russia dislike each other.
5. Nuclear war is bad.

Usually I find issues pretty easy to judge, but this one has been tough. Partly because nobody knows what's true and what is bullshit anymore.

If you think we can't afford to bankroll the war, then wait until we rebuild the country.

 

[Sako man]

If you think we can't afford to bankroll the war, then wait until we rebuild the country.

Why do you think Zelenski is taking meetings with Black Rock and Vanguard.

 

[Bigfatcock]

Fuck ukraine.

 

[AngryKoala]

Fuck ukraine.

Female refugees seek your asylum.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

Of course an army on the defense would never flood their territory...

"Also, the German army destroyed docks and bridges to flood the country and impede the Allied advance. This led to significant amount of land, particularly in the north and west, up to 250.000 hectare in total, to become flooded, further distorting supply routes and isolating regions from each other."

BTW....booo!

"To impede the allied advance"
Please tell us about the uke's advancing on that area.
You should use your head for more than a hat rack

 

[samadisoulcrusher]

A buddy of mine retired from the army in 2014, but did years as a battery commander for field artillery. In conversations he told me that current military thinking is that artillery is antiquated, but he still contends that artillery won wars in the past, and is still necessary to win wars today, despite "advanced tech." However, not as much funding and resources are devoted to it in U.S. military today, because "antiquated." He also told me that the Russians never gave up on the idea of the importance of artillery, and devote much training and funding to keep their artillery strong and supplied and that their artillery outmatches anyone in the world, including the U.S. Over the course of the Ukraine war, he has not been surprised how effective it has proved to be.

Russia has very sophisticated targeting acquisition system and can bring rounds on target incredibly fast.
They have very good satellites and aerial systems integrated into their artillery systems. The Ukrainians have
suffered greatly from the sophisticated russian artillery.
The death and destruction of 3 Ukrainian armies can be laid directly at the feet of the US .gov and the western political class criminals. Who are gleefully profiting from the deaths of Ukrainians and russians in a war that they purposefully started!

 

[theLBC]

 

[theLBC]

Ukraine begins counteroffensive against Russia, officials say

Ukrainian forces on Thursday began their long-awaited counteroffensive against invading Russian forces.

abcnews.go.com

 

[samadisoulcrusher]

Fuck Zelensky and his office too!

 

[Yasherka]

Female refugees seek your asylum.

They don't weigh enough for @Bigfatcock

 

[Eostech]

You know things are a bit fucked when the line between reality and satire becomes indistinguishable.
Is this actually real?

 

[232593]

A buddy of mine retired from the army in 2014, but did years as a battery commander for field artillery. In conversations he told me that current military thinking is that artillery is antiquated, but he still contends that artillery won wars in the past, and is still necessary to win wars today, despite "advanced tech." However, not as much funding and resources are devoted to it in U.S. military today, because "antiquated." He also told me that the Russians never gave up on the idea of the importance of artillery, and devote much training and funding to keep their artillery strong and supplied and that their artillery outmatches anyone in the world, including the U.S. Over the course of the Ukraine war, he has not been surprised how effective it has proved to be.

ARTY is one of the best ways to shape the battlefield and set favorable conditions for maneuver forces.

 

[theLBC]

You know things are a bit fucked when the line between reality and satire becomes indistinguishable.
Is this actually real?

wouldn't surprise me, but i have not "seen" it.

Twitter Files: FBI Helps Ukraine Censor Twitter Users And Obtain Their Info, Including Journalists | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

 

[232593]

Nordstream part two. There's no way to make a legit argument that Russia would do this to themselves.
The people behind the curtain trying to get a global coalition to rid the planet of Putin on the other hand .

If the effected areas corresponded to what the Russians determined to be one of the Ukrainian axis of advance for the anticipated counter offensive and the Russians had indicators the Ukrainian ground forces were using it then it makes perfect sense to blow the bridge especially given the terrain in that part of Ukraine. Blow the dam, slow and canalize the Ukrainian forces, then start hammering them with IDF.

 

[Bigfatcock]

They don't weigh enough for @Bigfatcock

I like skinny hoes too.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

If the effected areas corresponded to what the Russians determined to be one of the Ukrainian axis of advance for the anticipated counter offensive and the Russians had indicators the Ukrainian ground forces were using it then it makes perfect sense to blow the bridge especially given the terrain in that part of Ukraine. Blow the dam, slow and canalize the Ukrainian forces, then start hammering them with IDF.

At best that would cause a thirty day delay. Which would be a plus for the uke's. Thirty more days to accrue weapons and prepare.

Then there's this

Ukraine's Long-Term Plan To Blow-Up The Kakhova Dam Exposed - GreatGameIndia

A report from the Washington Post (WaPo) in late December gives credence to Ukraine's long-term plan to blow up the Kakhova Dam, which has been exposed.

greatgameindia.com

 

[Darayavaus]

 

[xciapup]

Why do you think Zelenski is taking meetings with Black Rock and Vanguard.

There will be a slush fund. It will be in the hundreds of billions. Oligarchs in this country will get very wealthy. US debt will continue to build.

 

[W54/XM-388]

My guess is something like this:

War goes on until there are no more Ukranians left to die and profits for the "big guy" and all the arms merchants are drying up bad.
"Peace deal" is made and the Russians get to keep essentially what they wanted in the first place which is the Ethnic Russian areas and Crimea and such in a nice big continuous strip.

"Nation building" takes place and Trillions of dollars are poured in (and snuck back out) to "rebuild the Ukraine".
Then once that is done, a new cold war line takes place and we need to "ensure a robust defense capability" against any future Soviet aggression, so more billions and trillions in building up a bunch of military equipment and such there (while a good chunk is of course back doored out).

Milk the situation for a few decades of profits as everyone needs to "upgrade" to counter the latest threats.

 

[232593]

At best that would cause a thirty day delay. Which would be a plus for the uke's. Thirty more days to accrue weapons and prepare.

Then there's this

Ukraine's Long-Term Plan To Blow-Up The Kakhova Dam Exposed - GreatGameIndia

A report from the Washington Post (WaPo) in late December gives credence to Ukraine's long-term plan to blow up the Kakhova Dam, which has been exposed.

greatgameindia.com

I have no doubt that UKR wanted to blow up that damn in the past. And the Russians likely blew it up for the same reason, disrupting mobility. If you look at that area there are not a lot of bridges from the dam west. So to project forces across that river and sustain them long term it will most definitely require a wet gap crossing. With the flooding that has likely occurred in that area now gap crossings are going to be even more problematic and require way more resources and conditions to achieve.

I have not seen an accurate composition & disposition of UKR & RUS forces in that particular area but it appears that the Dnieper River is pretty much the FLOT for that part of the battlefield. So if by blowing up that damn the Russians may have stabilized the line and preserved their gains in that area. If it works that may force Ukraine to concentrate their efforts in a geographicaly reduced area, theoretically giving the Russians the advantage for a time. But we’ll see I suppose.

 

[NoDopes]

Most of the fighting was north of that location, and blowing that damn will make it easier for Ukis to cross at more points up north.
Russia wants Ukraine to attack... so they can continue to degrade their troops. This is more like a small PR bump attempt by Ukraine.
Dirty bomb is probably a better idea if they really think NATO troops will help but I have my doubts even with that.

 

[232593]

Most of the fighting was north of that location, and blowing that damn will make it easier for Ukis to cross at more points up north.
Russia wants Ukraine to attack... so they can continue to degrade their troops. This is more like a small PR bump attempt by Ukraine.
Dirty bomb is probably a better idea if they really think NATO troops will help but I have my doubts even with that.

Have you seen how wide that river is in the north? I didn’t see any bridges to get across either.

 

[37L1]

I'll put this here with the caveat:I don't believe anyone involved in t his war.

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/wagner-group-russia-ukraine/2023/06/08/id/1122850/

 

[232593]

That’s interesting, I wonder if it’s factual or MILDEC?

 

[Bigfatcock]

Fuck ukraine.

 

[kortik]

Per Russian language ukie sources, ukies finally and "officially" started their counteroffensive. As reported by the same sources, no significant progress of this move is observed, and ukies suffered pretty heavy loses.

 

[Cardboard55]

Dang it. Was hoping my Ukraine thread was gonna hit 15K replies so I could finally change the title ("soooo, something IS going on in Ukraine")



Anyway, been a spell since I posted one of these unofficial DEFCON summaries (open source, no guarantees of accuracy)

Current Alerts | Raised US Military Alert Levels

Current alerts. Raised US military alert levels.

www.defconlevel.com

Not looking real good. Feel free to chime in with corrections or estimates of their accuracy.

Wonder if the "accidental" greatest fires in Canadian history are getting us used to a nukular winter type weather.

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

I have this friend I have known over 12 years. He grew up in the GDR and when the Soviet Union collapsed he kept track of several friends and army buddies that ended up in Russia and Ukraine. They correspond at regular intervals as do my GDR buddy and I.

Not putting a fine point on it but how many of ya'll "believing" in the Deep Fake and mis/dis information campaign and propaganda from all sides have actual boots-on-the-ground reliable close friends whose kids are fighting in and surrounded by this bull shit? The stuff I get from boots on the ground bears absolutely no resemblance to the "facts" or "conjecture" I'm reading here and elsewhere.

Somebodies full of shit. I'm suspecting all ya'll are basically guessing and conjecturing depending on what yer favorite and trusted fake news source/synthetic media sources are purveying that tickles yer POV and Understanding. Cause 90% of what I read and see has absolutley nothing in common with what I'm gathering from people actually involved with and living in this fucking nightmare. My former GDR buddy (now a German) and his buddies hope ya'll are entertained with the death of their kids and the destruction of Russia and Ukraine. Quite entertaining, No?

VooDoo

 

[37L1]

I have this friend I have known over 12 years. He grew up in the GDR and when the Soviet Union collapsed he kept track of several friends and army buddies that ended up in Russia and Ukraine. They correspond at regular intervals as do my GDR buddy and I.

Not putting a fine point on it but how many of ya'll "believing" in the Deep Fake and mis/dis information campaign and propaganda from all sides have actual boots-on-the-ground reliable close friends whose kids are fighting in and surrounded by this bull shit? The stuff I get from boots on the ground bears absolutely no resemblance to the "facts" or "conjecture" I'm reading here and elsewhere.

Somebodies full of shit. I'm suspecting all ya'll are basically guessing and conjecturing depending on what yer favorite and trusted fake news source/synthetic media sources are purveying that tickles yer POV and Understanding. Cause 90% of what I read and see has absolutley nothing in common with what I'm gathering from people actually involved with and living in this fucking nightmare. My former GDR buddy (now a German) and his buddies hope ya'll are entertained with the death of their kids and the destruction of Russia and Ukraine. Quite entertaining, No?

VooDoo

War, what is it good for?

 

[khel]

Blow the dam, slow and canalize the Ukrainian forces, then start hammering them with IDF.

They could have just opened the gates if that was the case. 90% of effected population and territory - is under Russian control. Plus, upstream dams (controlled by Ukr.) opened their gates to increase the flood.

 

[Darayavaus]

well, that might explain some things.

Twitter Files: FBI Helps Ukraine Censor Twitter Users And Obtain Their Info, Including Journalists

Authored by Aaron Maté via Substack, The Federal Bureau of Investigation has aided a Ukrainian intelligence effort to censor social...

southfront.org

 

[Bigfatcock]

I have this friend I have known over 12 years. He grew up in the GDR and when the Soviet Union collapsed he kept track of several friends and army buddies that ended up in Russia and Ukraine. They correspond at regular intervals as do my GDR buddy and I.

Not putting a fine point on it but how many of ya'll "believing" in the Deep Fake and mis/dis information campaign and propaganda from all sides have actual boots-on-the-ground reliable close friends whose kids are fighting in and surrounded by this bull shit? The stuff I get from boots on the ground bears absolutely no resemblance to the "facts" or "conjecture" I'm reading here and elsewhere.

Somebodies full of shit. I'm suspecting all ya'll are basically guessing and conjecturing depending on what yer favorite and trusted fake news source/synthetic media sources are purveying that tickles yer POV and Understanding. Cause 90% of what I read and see has absolutley nothing in common with what I'm gathering from people actually involved with and living in this fucking nightmare. My former GDR buddy (now a German) and his buddies hope ya'll are entertained with the death of their kids and the destruction of Russia and Ukraine. Quite entertaining, No?

VooDoo

Fuck ukraine and russia. Fuck chyna and canada while I’m at it.

Actually, fuck all countries that are not America.

Sucks that people are dying and all that, but I damn sure am glad it’s not another generation of American youth getting fed to the grinder this time.

To summarize: Fuck all countries that are not America.

-fin

 

[232593]

They could have just opened the gates if that was the case. 90% of effected population and territory - is under Russian control. Plus, upstream dams (controlled by Ukr.) opened their gates to increase the flood.

Opening the gates may work if you are absolutely certain you will be able to hold the position. If you can’t the blowing up the damn and denying your adversary use of it makes more sense.

What other upstream dams are you referring to and how close are they?

 

[Terry Cross]

RU seems to be doing a pretty good job of shutting down new western assets soon after being deployed in UA.

They didn't have too much problem overwhelming one or more Patriot sites and they used inexpensive means of killing one of the newest AESA equipped ADS.

Tons of misinformation coming from both sides because, well, war . . . but western media is under such tight control, their propaganda is fantasy. They tell us it raining when, in fact they are peeing on our leg.

Ukraine's Prized IRIS-T Air Defense System Attacked By Russian Drone In Video

The advanced truck-mounted TRML-4D radar the Russian loitering munitions look to have targeted may be the only one Ukraine has received.

www.thedrive.com

./

 

[theLBC]

RU seems to be doing a pretty good job of shutting down new western assets soon after being deployed in UA.

They didn't have too much problem overwhelming one or more Patriot sites and they used inexpensive means of killing one of the newest AESA equipped ADS systems.

Tons of misinformation coming from both sides because, well, war . . . but western media is under such tight control, their propaganda is fantasy. They tell us it raining when, in fact they are peeing on our leg.

Ukraine's Prized IRIS-T Air Defense System Attacked By Russian Drone In Video

The advanced truck-mounted TRML-4D radar the Russian loitering munitions look to have targeted may be the only one Ukraine has received.

www.thedrive.com

./

i think both sides are learning a lot...with this "real" war...
for example, the russians have triangulating systems that work entirely by sound to pinpoint the artillery units within seconds and provide counter-battery firing solutions so quickly, they have reportedly been devastating to the ukrainians.
things like that cannot be tested when you're only fighting goat herders with rifles.

 

[Bender]

This war has been going on too long already, could somebody please turn the Ukraine into a parking lot so we can stop sending money to one of the most corrupt governments in the world and stop funding Xiden's family kickback scheme?

(((They))) said no. Sorry bruh.

 

[Bender]

I have this friend I have known over 12 years. He grew up in the GDR and when the Soviet Union collapsed he kept track of several friends and army buddies that ended up in Russia and Ukraine. They correspond at regular intervals as do my GDR buddy and I.

Not putting a fine point on it but how many of ya'll "believing" in the Deep Fake and mis/dis information campaign and propaganda from all sides have actual boots-on-the-ground reliable close friends whose kids are fighting in and surrounded by this bull shit? The stuff I get from boots on the ground bears absolutely no resemblance to the "facts" or "conjecture" I'm reading here and elsewhere.

Somebodies full of shit. I'm suspecting all ya'll are basically guessing and conjecturing depending on what yer favorite and trusted fake news source/synthetic media sources are purveying that tickles yer POV and Understanding. Cause 90% of what I read and see has absolutley nothing in common with what I'm gathering from people actually involved with and living in this fucking nightmare. My former GDR buddy (now a German) and his buddies hope ya'll are entertained with the death of their kids and the destruction of Russia and Ukraine. Quite entertaining, No?

VooDoo

Shut up already with your virtue signaling sob story. Nobody here said they like the war or are entertained by it. Go fight your straw-man arguments on Facebook. Your level of retard doesn’t work here.

 

[theLBC]

so i watched a vid from the military summary channel, and it does seem to show the ukes losing a lot a stuff.
i try most of the time not to post people getting killed, but there is lots out there that is pretty gory (not posted by military summary)

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Shut up already with your virtue signaling sob story. Nobody here said they like the war or are entertained by it. Go fight your straw-man arguments on Facebook. Your level of retard doesn’t work here.

Vodoun never fails to interject his contrary cunt liberal nonsense in pretty much every thread LOL. @rustyinbend is more based than @Vodoun daVinci. Aint gotta be living in Ukraine to see that Zelensky is a puppet who is simply following the orders of the machine, and this war would've been over long ago if the MIC and powers that be allowed a ceasefire.

Russia is the David to the West's Goliath. And is absolutely embarrassing NATO. We made it pretty easy to embarrass us however being more concerned with over-representing/completely saturating everything with gay tranny gross shit with 0 thought given to lethality and effectiveness. The so called "first world" west is the laughing stock of any culture that has a ounce of dignity, respect, or sense... and deservedly so. We're watching the downfall of Rome in real time, and it would be hilarious if it wasnt so sad with such serious repercussions for us all.

 

[Numb_Skull]

I have this friend I have known over 12 years. He grew up in the GDR and when the Soviet Union collapsed he kept track of several friends and army buddies that ended up in Russia and Ukraine. They correspond at regular intervals as do my GDR buddy and I.

Not putting a fine point on it but how many of ya'll "believing" in the Deep Fake and mis/dis information campaign and propaganda from all sides have actual boots-on-the-ground reliable close friends whose kids are fighting in and surrounded by this bull shit? The stuff I get from boots on the ground bears absolutely no resemblance to the "facts" or "conjecture" I'm reading here and elsewhere.

Somebodies full of shit. I'm suspecting all ya'll are basically guessing and conjecturing depending on what yer favorite and trusted fake news source/synthetic media sources are purveying that tickles yer POV and Understanding. Cause 90% of what I read and see has absolutley nothing in common with what I'm gathering from people actually involved with and living in this fucking nightmare. My former GDR buddy (now a German) and his buddies hope ya'll are entertained with the death of their kids and the destruction of Russia and Ukraine. Quite entertaining, No?

VooDoo

The family of the men fighting know absolutely jack fucking shit of the goings on in a war. Your entire statement is nothing more than asswipe.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

I have this friend I have known over 12 years. He grew up in the GDR and when the Soviet Union collapsed he kept track of several friends and army buddies that ended up in Russia and Ukraine. They correspond at regular intervals as do my GDR buddy and I.

Not putting a fine point on it but how many of ya'll "believing" in the Deep Fake and mis/dis information campaign and propaganda from all sides have actual boots-on-the-ground reliable close friends whose kids are fighting in and surrounded by this bull shit? The stuff I get from boots on the ground bears absolutely no resemblance to the "facts" or "conjecture" I'm reading here and elsewhere.

Somebodies full of shit. I'm suspecting all ya'll are basically guessing and conjecturing depending on what yer favorite and trusted fake news source/synthetic media sources are purveying that tickles yer POV and Understanding. Cause 90% of what I read and see has absolutley nothing in common with what I'm gathering from people actually involved with and living in this fucking nightmare. My former GDR buddy (now a German) and his buddies hope ya'll are entertained with the death of their kids and the destruction of Russia and Ukraine. Quite entertaining, No?

VooDoo

Boo fucking hoo.
Now send your bleeding heart sob bullshit to your congressman.
Then get back to pimping for desantis. He's all in for the uke's so your friends better be ready for the visit from the staff car and the priest.

 

[MK20]

Not so sure DeSantis is pro Ukraine being at war with Russia. Please provide documentation if able.

 

[theLBC]

 

[Two36]

Boo fucking hoo.
Now send your bleeding heart sob bullshit to your congressman.
Then get back to pimping for desantis. He's all in for the uke's so your friends better be ready for the visit from the staff car and the priest.

Fify

 

[Darayavaus]

 

[Darayavaus]

boom. big boom. Geiger counters will be going off again.

 

[Bigfatcock]

It appears Russian general officer survivability has gotten better as this dumpster fire continues.

 

[Darayavaus]

It appears Russian general officer survivability has gotten better as this dumpster fire continues.

in the last couple weeks, the Ukrops claim to have killed a million Russians soldiers, 10 admirals, 15 field marshals, 20 generals, Colonel Sanders, and Captain Kangaroo.

 

[xciapup]

I have no doubt that UKR wanted to blow up that damn in the past. And the Russians likely blew it up for the same reason, disrupting mobility. If you look at that area there are not a lot of bridges from the dam west. So to project forces across that river and sustain them long term it will most definitely require a wet gap crossing. With the flooding that has likely occurred in that area now gap crossings are going to be even more problematic and require way more resources and conditions to achieve.

I have not seen an accurate composition & disposition of UKR & RUS forces in that particular area but it appears that the Dnieper River is pretty much the FLOT for that part of the battlefield. So if by blowing up that damn the Russians may have stabilized the line and preserved their gains in that area. If it works that may force Ukraine to concentrate their efforts in a geographicaly reduced area, theoretically giving the Russians the advantage for a time. But we’ll see I suppose.

We have not seen an accurate description of anything since day one.