Night Vision Thermal newb help.

[Lunabear]

Ok so not sure where to start this thread but I have never owned a thermal or even nv. Looking to get into the thermal game and do some night time yote hunting as well as bobcat and maybe a few others. Haven’t set a hard budget so keeping most all options open. So far the pulsar xp50 and trijicon reap-ir have been recommended to me. I compete in prs so making the shots is t the hard part per say as learning the differences between dedicated therm vs. clip ins and what all I would actually use vs. what’s just a cool factor. Where I will be doing the hunting I would guess most shots will be inside 300 but have clear range to 1k plus. Do thermals have a shelf life? I see everyone asking how many hours are on nv tubes. Do they have a shelf life? Please help me make sense of the fire hose I’m drinking from

 

[WhereNow&How]

Ok so not sure where to start this thread but I have never owned a thermal or even nv. Looking to get into the thermal game and do some night time yote hunting as well as bobcat and maybe a few others. Haven’t set a hard budget so keeping most all options open. So far the pulsar xp50 and trijicon reap-ir have been recommended to me. I compete in prs so making the shots is t the hard part per say as learning the differences between dedicated therm vs. clip ins and what all I would actually use vs. what’s just a cool factor. Where I will be doing the hunting I would guess most shots will be inside 300 but have clear range to 1k plus. Do thermals have a shelf life? I see everyone asking how many hours are on nv tubes. Do they have a shelf life? Please help me make sense of the fire hose I’m drinking from

NV & Thermal is worse than doing crack. Just remember I told you that. Best advice I can give you. That "Old Smokey White Devil" will likely grab you hard.

Now carry on, full steam ahead.

 

[Lunabear]

So I’ve heard. Guess I’m looking for my “first” bump so to speak lol

 

[WhereNow&How]

Everything has a shelf life eventually. However, more to what you are asking. Thermal does not degrade as fast as a NV intensifier tube I think.

However, you must be somewhat careful with NV and Thermal. If you stare at a full moon for very long, it can burn a permanent mark in NV and even Thermal. Modern Thermal and Gen 3 NV device have a pretty long service life if properly handled and taken somewhat care of regarding the do's and dont's.

With thermal don't let it sit there and let a hot spot cook on it for a long time. With NV don't let bright light sit on the objective and cook on it either.

Being you are interested in yote hunting, I would steer away from the Pulsar XP 50 Trail and the entire Trail Line. They have a known design defect where the POA/POI does not hold. Temperature changes shrink and swell the plastic housing and thus it wont hold a very good Zero.

Now hog hunters that start shooting at 50 yards and then firing at running hogs as they flee, the POA/POI is maybe not so much of a big issue for them because of closer engagement ranges on a larger animal. However, longer range 200 to 300 yard shooting at a much smaller target becomes way more important.

In general to really be set up, one needs to pair NV (like a PVS 14) with a Thermal Weapon Sight. Point being, the NV lets you navigate around in the dark and the Thermal does the killing.

So on the cheap side for good performance you could get by with a PVS 14, Nite Cap, Mounts etc for say $3,000 if you bought the PVS 14 used for say $2,000.

Then you could go with something like the Flir 536 which is a very solid Thermal that performs very well for say $3,800. So for a total of $6,800 you would have NV and Thermal that is very capable of completing your mission. Yea I know, Flir kicked the Civies to the side and their customer service sucks but it is such a solid Thermal scope I would not worry about it in the least. The best customer service you will ever have is the one you never have to use because the product was solid and trouble free.

So that's my starting off 2 cents for what it is worth.

 

[Lunabear]

Everything has a shelf life eventually. However, more to what you are asking. Thermal does not degrade as fast as a NV intensifier tube I think.

However, you must be somewhat careful with NV and Thermal. If you stare at a full moon for very long, it can burn a permanent mark in NV and even Thermal. Modern Thermal and Gen 3 NV device have a pretty long service life if properly handled and taken somewhat care of regarding the do's and dont's.

With thermal don't let it sit there and let a hot spot cook on it for a long time. With NV don't let bright light sit on the objective and cook on it either.

Being you are interested in yote hunting, I would steer away from the Pulsar XP 50 Trail and the entire Trail Line. They have a known design defect where the POA/POI does not hold. Temperature changes shrink and swell the plastic housing and thus it wont hold a very good Zero.

Now hog hunters that start shooting at 50 yards and then firing at running hogs as they flee, the POA/POI is maybe not so much of a big issue for them because of closer engagement ranges on a larger animal. However, longer range 200 to 300 yard shooting at a much smaller target becomes way more important.

In general to really be set up, one needs to pair NV (like a PVS 14) with a Thermal Weapon Sight. Point being, the NV lets you navigate around in the dark and the Thermal does the killing.

So on the cheap side for good performance you could get by with a PVS 14, Nite Cap, Mounts etc for say $3,000 if you bought the PVS 14 used for say $2,000.

Then you could go with something like the Flir 536 which is a very solid Thermal that performs very well for say $3,800. So for a total of $6,800 you would have NV and Thermal that is very capable of completing your mission. Yea I know, Flir kicked the Civies to the side and their customer service sucks but it is such a solid Thermal scope I would not worry about it in the least. The best customer service you will ever have is the one you never have to use because the product was solid and trouble free.

So that's my starting off 2 cents for what it is worth.

Appreciate the break down. Now I gotta try to understand nv as well lol. Kinda hard to make an educated choice when your not remotely close to anyone who has/carries said products. I’m much more of a hands on guy than a read and retain

 

[WhereNow&How]

Appreciate the break down. Now I gotta try to understand nv as well lol. Kinda hard to make an educated choice when your not remotely close to anyone who has/carries said products. I’m much more of a hands on guy than a read and retain

Well Snipers Hide and the Night Vision Forum over on ARFcom are about the 2 best resources out there for reading and learning. Lots of knowledgeable users on both forums.

Tell me how much are you willing to spend on your budget, (yea we all want to spend as little as possible) but realistically the amount you would truly spend will dictate how you can get setup. Then tell me how much you actually gonna hunt. I know those might be kind of hard to answer, because once you get a taste, your perspectives could significantly change. Typically you will be either in or out.

 

[Lunabear]

Well realistically after I close on my house I will have no debt and about 20kish free cash. That being said I’d rather not blow 15k on something that I can’t use every day if that makes sense. I guess if I could keep it somewhere under 8-10 that would be cool but honestly have no idea as I have never hunted/used these setups. As far as how much I would use them it could be as few as once a month or as often as every weekend. Ideally I would like to get a set up that I can take a few/friends/family/ maybe make some clients?on hunts and get them set. The area I’m in is very cattle heavy so predator control is a big thing out here. Just in the few game cameras I have out there is plenty of yotes and a few bobcats. I’ve heard of local mountain lions but now we have a season for them

 

[WhereNow&How]

Ok, from what you have stated, I would proceed this away. Get a PVS 14 used for $2000 or new for $3000 and put it on a Mod Armory Light Weight Bridge Mount $350 then get a Norotos Rhino 2 mount off Ebay for around say $80 bucks (they getting hard to find now) then put a Norotos PVS 15/18 Dovetail Socket on it ($60 bucks) and probably go with a Opscore Skull Crusher for helmet at $400. The Ops Core Skull Crusher is a super nice head system that is super comfortable and very easy to adjust to just about anyones head. So if you end up going hard core, you can get a dedicated helmet for yourself and use the Ops Core Skull Crusher for family and friends. Takes just a few seconds to adjust to anyones head.

If you like all of that you can add another 14 at a later date and have duels Bino's and then be able to separate one off to take your family or friends, clients out. Albeit you will have to get a second set of headgear and mounts, etc.

Regarding thermal I would go with a Flir PTS 536 if I could find a new one. They almost all gone now. All the regular dealers are showing out of stock. Bass Pro might have a few left. If I could not find a new one, I would buy a used one, but doesn't look like many people are turning theirs loose unless you catch someone who needs the funds to make other purchases. You will be hard pressed to find another brand thermal at the Flir PTS 536 price point that can really compete with it when you factor in all the important combined factors.

Ops-Core Skull Mount

NVG Head Mount Platform

tnvc.com

Norotos PVS-15/ PVS-18 Socket

PVS-15/ PVS-18 Socket for Norotos AKA2 Mount

tnvc.com

Norotos Titanium Rhino Mount II NVG Night Vision Helmet Mount - 19550102GC for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Norotos Titanium Rhino Mount II NVG Night Vision Helmet Mount - 19550102GC at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Night Vision Helmet Mount Dual PVS-14 Light Weight Mounting System

Night Vision Helmet Mount Dual PVS-14 Light Weight Mounting System offers an adaptable system to be configured for dual tube technology.

www.modarmory.com

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/flir-thermosight-pro-pts536-thermal-imaging-weapon-sight?irclickid=RY%3AW01UFDxyOUsKxTSQPxVT4Uki2LP0lsxUpRk0&irgwc=1&hvarAID=impact&source=aff

Jay (Surgeon_Shooter) here on the hide is a good source for PVS 14's. Here is a link to his company Sure Shot Night Vision.

Sure Shot Night Vision

Sure Shot Night Vision, Spring, Texas. 703 likes. Quality night vision and thermal optic sales. No junk sold here! We beat any price out there on our optics and have the same quality as the big guys.

www.facebook.com

Well, there you go. A list of some pretty good crack dealers.

 

[car16smg]

When hunting at night, Positive Identification (PID) of your quarry is paramount. Nobody wants to be that guy that mistakenly shoots a calf or neighbor dog/cat. The better units you buy allow for PID at greater distances. With that said, buy the best you can afford. You have a decent budget to start with, and could burn through that quickly!

I would recommend NV (pvs14 or dual tube setup) for navigation, and dedicated thermal for hunting. This is a very commonly used combination. There’s an extensive thread on here about buying pvs14s. Prices ranging from $2500-4k.

Dedicated thermal units with 12-17 micron BAE cores are the best on the market currently. Trijicon Reap-IR, IR Hunter Mk2 or Mk3 and N-Vision Halo or Halo LR units are the way to go. Prices ranging from $6-10k. I would also recommend a higher native magnification unit as you’ll be shooting smaller targets (predators) further away.

You also mentioned clip-ons...good ones are pricey and heavy (NV and thermal).

First the thermal: L3 LWTS LR or Trijicon UTCx/UTCxii units are the best on the market and they range in price from $10-18k.

NV clip-ons are a little more affordable: pvs22, pvs24/CNVD LR, pvs27 MUNS, KAC PVS30, or KAC UNS LR A2 range in price from $3500-15k depending on tube quality/condition, WP/GP, and new/refurb.

Getting back to my recommendation for dedicated vs clip-on for hunting...it boils down to one thing, WEIGHT! Dedicated thermal units weigh roughly the same as a long range scope, 1.5-2 pound average. Clip-ons add 2-3 pounds to the front of your weapon (in front of the day optic) making the weapon rather unwieldy (15-20 pound weapon) unless it’s mounted on a tripod. (Since I mentioned tripods, buy RRS w/ anvil 30 head and don’t look back, $1200-1500)

Dual NV tubes (i.e. dual 14s, pvs15, Anvis9s, Mod3’s: $4500-15k) are better than a single pvs14 for driving if you’ll be doing that. Then there are dual band setups with a pvs14 bridged with a 1x thermal monocular (i.e. flir breach). There is an entire thread on here discussing the use of this setup.

You also mentioned taking friends/family/clients out hunting. Buying multiples of these units also gets pricey, but night shooting/hunting is more fun with a buddy!

This is just some of the info I gleaned from the research I did when I was a NV/thermal newb; I’m still very much a student of the game. There is MUCH more info out there and MANY people more knowledgeable than myself on here that would be glad to help you! I’m sure @wigwamitus is around here somewhere and will weigh in soon. He has a VAST working knowledge of this equipment and hands-on experience with most (if not all) of it!

 

[WhereNow&How]

@car16smg One of the best methods I have found for true positive ID on the somewhat cheap, is to get a 5x Magnifier to slip on the PVS 14 and light the intended target up with a Luna ELIR-3. Has saved me more walking to get closer for PID than you can shake a stick at.

 

[car16smg]

@car16smg One of the best methods I have found for true positive ID on the somewhat cheap, is to get a 5x Magnifier to slip on the PVS 14 and light the intended target up with a Luna ELIR-3. Has saved me more walking to get closer for PID than you can shake a stick at.

That’ll definitely get the job done!

I’m a little more cautious with my IR lasers as they can damage the eyes of animals that you don’t intend to kill. I’ve also found that the laser can occasionally spook a predator.

 

[WhereNow&How]

I spent a lot of time learning a lot about NOHD (Nominal Occular Hazard Distance). Yes you are correct, a improperly used Laser Diode based beam has the potential to do irreparable damage to any animal or humans eyes, however, I am not concerned as long as proper dispersing of that energy is such as not to do harm.

So when lighting up critters at various distances I am very cognizant of how much energy I am putting on their eyes and for how long.

 

[Lunabear]

Educate me on it

 

[Lunabear]

Please...lol

 

[WhereNow&How]

Educate me on it

Lesson 1. Watch out for little Jimmy.

 

[wigwamitus]

For a wide open budget, the Trijicon UTC-xii thermal clipons should be high on your list. I can detect critters out to 5,300 yds (the farthest I can see things on the ground from my land) on most nights. Of course I can also detect them with Trijicon Mk3 60mm. But with the thermal clipon, I can crank 16x on my day scope and use day scope reticle, elevation turrets, wind turrets etc. To shoot out 900yds or more.
So the UTC-xii are at the top of the list for thermal clipons we can buy.

Over on the NV clipon side ... a new PVS-27 would be high on my list ... with a big objective, you will pull in a lot of light and be able to see out passively as far as you can see. Picking up critters at 5,300 yards will not be possible, unless they are emitting vis light and light in the NV visible spectrum. But that can be handy.
Again, the military clipons give you the ability to use your day scope reticle and elevation and windage turrets to shoot.

==
For closer in, the N-VIsion Halo-LR has a validated mil-hash holding reticle, which could let you hit yotes out to 500yds, if they will stay still enough to warrant a shot.

==
And for even closer in ... a PVS-14 on your head ... and a Trijicon Skeet on your head ... will give you dual band capability and you will be able to detect critters out to 1800yds+ on most nights with the skeet ... and use your aiming laser on your carbine out as far as you can hit the critters. This gives you a powerful "walkin and stalkin" capability.

==
Well, that's a general survey. What's best for you to start with depends on your use cases and priorities ... like how often will you be shooting beyond 300yds etc ?
And unfortunately, the more time you spend outside at night, your use cases and priorities will likely evolve. So don't expect even your own priorities to be a fixed constant you are trying to discover. As you gain experience they will change.

So I recommend, "buy a little - learn a lot" ... "buy a little more - learn a lot more" ...

 

[Burning sensation]

The Pulsar units are very nice, and will get the job done. Mine gets a lot of use for hog hunting. I’ve heard the Trijicon scopes are some of the best, but I have no experience with them.
Most nights I can see the game/cattle/driving trails I walk on without light, but I do kick a lot of cactuses because I still do not have a PVS14 or similar NV.

 

[Lunabear]

Does anyone who has had experience with a few thermals have any good or bad things to say about the pulsar thermion xp50?

 

[Nicholas Borne]

Does anyone who has had experience with a few thermals have any good or bad things to say about the pulsar thermion xp50?

I bought a Thermion XP50 3wks ago. I am very much a newb like you in this field. I went on the recommendation of a couple friends that have experience with thermal...one on the retail side, one on the hog killing side. Between the 2 I found the Thermion XP50. I'm running it on a JP .300BO suppressed running 125gr supers. I zeroed at 50 and have shot it out to 215 yds. I posted a couple pics in another thread in this section. I have not shot any critter yet but did take it out the weekend after I got it. I was amazed at the clarity. I saw deer from 50-175. At about 100 you can see them chewing grass. The second night I watched raccoons at 230 yds ( confirmed distance to my feeder). I'm happy so far and can't wait to start giving dirt naps to the hogs. WhereNow&How seems to be on his game with all this. (so I'm taking notes from him also) I have not gone the NV monocular route YET, but possibly in the future. I was told to try some of the red flash lights to navigate around to avoid snakes while walking. I'm in LA so its not wide open like the TX thermal videos. I have to walk to different food plots and such. I keep forgetting it can video what I'm seeing so i'll try to do that next time I take it out and post those results.

 

[Nicholas Borne]

Does anyone who has had experience with a few thermals have any good or bad things to say about the pulsar thermion xp50?

I forgot to mention head over to YouTube and look at FoxOptic's channel. He had about the most informative review of it and some how to videos: zeroing and pairing with your phone. A. Amantine has a review also I think.

 

[WhereNow&How]

WhereNow&How seems to be on his game with all this. I was told to try some of the red flash lights to navigate around to avoid snakes while walking. I'm in LA so its not wide open like the TX thermal videos.

Hmmm, I dunno bout all that. 98% of the world might likely say I'm Cray Cray. But appreciate the vote of confidence.

I know enough to be dangerous. There are many others here with an extreme understanding of many aspects I don't have a clue about.

So you definitely in the right Arena to learn as from time to time some of the real experts here will let out some of their trade secrets. Meanwhile I am sure they get a chuckle out of some of the dumb sh^t, some of us, including myself, might say sometimes. I just hope to trigger them to offer good corrective and thought provoking advice. That always helps the learning curves.

I never get finished learning.

So I am assuming Louisiana and not Los Angeles. You south of 10 (Gods Country), mid section, or a Yankee Coonass?

 

[Nicholas Borne]

Hmmm, I dunno bout all that. 98% of the world might likely say I'm Cray Cray. But appreciate the vote of confidence.

I know enough to be dangerous. There are many others here with an extreme understanding of many aspects I don't have a clue about.

So you definitely in the right Arena to learn as from time to time some of the real experts here will let out some of their trade secrets. Meanwhile I am sure they get a chuckle out of some of the dumb sh^t, some of us, including myself, might say sometimes. I just hope to trigger them to offer good corrective and thought provoking advice. That always helps the learning curves.

I never get finished learning.

So I am assuming Louisiana and not Los Angeles. You south of 10 (Gods Country), mid section, or a Yankee Coonass?

Correct... the real LA. Grew up in and around NOLA currently in Baton Rouge. I hunt south of Monroe and fish North of Venice. I’m real lucky to have such diverse Sportsman’s Paradise opportunities.