after one day back in the office. And you only hear crickets chirping from the propaganda arm of the demcom party.
- Thread starter Fret
- Start date
Soooooo....He’s mentally been on vacation for like a decade 
A "drawdown" is a nice slow,, controlled outbound trend of personnel....
Sending 3,000 troops for safety is an evacuation. That's like 3 USMC infantry BATTALION-sized elements.
On top of the 3,000 going to Kabul, let's not forget the 1000 personnel in Qatar, and the Army Infantry Brigade Combat Team (4,000+) going to Kuwait for standby in case shit really hits the fan. So... all in all its about 8,000-10,000 being sent on the next 24-36 hours.
Sending 3,000 troops for safety is an evacuation. That's like 3 USMC infantry BATTALION-sized elements.
On top of the 3,000 going to Kabul, let's not forget the 1000 personnel in Qatar, and the Army Infantry Brigade Combat Team (4,000+) going to Kuwait for standby in case shit really hits the fan. So... all in all its about 8,000-10,000 being sent on the next 24-36 hours.
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Could have left there without losing any face and before the continuous bleed of casualties if they had any sense of actual strategy and a desire to do so.
Im thinking the twenty year war and this result is exactly what was intended.
Im thinking the twenty year war and this result is exactly what was intended.
Something tells me that the interpreters and others are going to get screwed.
We should have gone in, gotten AL Queda, and gotten out. But instead we started the bullshit hearts and minds regime change against the Taliban. And guess what? The locals weren't exactly supportive of women's rights, gay/trans rights, etc.
The culture in that country is from the 1800's and they like/want it that way. They wanted no part of all these "modern" things we in the US got going on. But we, not comprehending that, decided to try and force our ways on them.
They won.
Either way, they won. Multiple empires have tried to conquer that land and failed. Add us to the list.
The problem is we did not "try to conquer". Conqueror's don't have ROE.
With much anger in my soul I agree.
It was the most just war ever and our govt fucked it up.
Simplest Strategy statement ever.
"The military is tasked with choosing the most effective tactics to Locate, Close With and Destroy the Al-Queda organization and ensure the capture or death of OBL. When considering tactics the mindset should be maximum use of force will more expeditiously achieve US strategic goals and limit the cost in US personnel, non-combatants and enemy troops. Seek co-operation from regional allies through co-operative efforts without losing focus on, or at the expense of, the goal of destroying Al-Queda and capturing or killing OBL. Once AQ and OBL are destroyed all operations will cease and troops will withdraw from the region with the expectation inhabitants in the region will form governments with an understanding that harboring or supporting terrorist organizations will result in disproportionate military response to eliminate any threat to the American People or their way of life."
Instead we got "Global War on Terror". Where is the end or goal in that? Should have just called it "The never ending expenditure of weaponry to ensure good contract kickbacks at the expense of American kids and to the never ending beating upon people that dont have a pot to piss in."
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At the future cost of anyone over there supporting us on the next debacle....we fucked the Iraqi Kurds, we fucked the Syrian Kurds and now we are fucking the Afghani support.
I aint thinking any of these guys are Nathan Hale but any idea of "Honor" is missing from our side.
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It's beyond sad. 20 years of American blood and treasure and for what? Enriching the cocksuckers in the MIC and likely more than a few politicians.
You guys and gals who have served over there have my utmost respect. If I had and now seeing this unfold, I would be beyond pissed.
You guys and gals who have served over there have my utmost respect. If I had and now seeing this unfold, I would be beyond pissed.
War makes money, not only for defence contractors but the corrupt politicians that financially benefit, like Pelosi. God, I miss Trump. He wasn't a warmonger.
Just and Unjust Wars
“A classic in the field” (New York Times), this is a penetrating investigation into moral and ethical questions raised by war, drawing on example...
www.basicbooks.com Heavy reading, but covers what you said.
Just and Unjust Wars
“A classic in the field” (New York Times), this is a penetrating investigation into moral and ethical questions raised by war, drawing on example...
Heavy reading, but covers what you said.
I will be ordering it.
My personal, uneducated definition of "Just war"...
1. ALL other means have been exhausted.
2. An absolute existential threat to your people and way of life.
3. A realization that faced with an existential threat, absolute use of force is ethically mandated in order to limit the suffering on both sides and achieve the goals that were unobtainable by any peaceful means in the quickest possible time.
There was no reason to ever go into Afghanistan at all.
We knew where OBL and his buddies were pretty much exactly.
Build 1 specialized 50MT+ Fusion device that uses the barest minimum of Fissionable materials for the trigger, drop it for near ground burst right where OBL and his folks were, and fly away. (Borrow the old Russian design if your scientists claim they can't figure it out, or refuse to make it for you).
Done, dusted, minimal collateral damage due to the geography, and that would have been the end of the "war on terror" as all the rest of the Arab states would have understood right then and there, you attack the USA, we just nuke you and call it good, they would have been working overtime to make sure nobody else used their countries as a base for terrorists.
It’s a hard read, written by a philosopher, but it brings up many valid points and questions.
He talks at length about which is better for both combatants and non-combatants : A brutal short war (total war), or a long, and drawn out clean/surgical war (hearts and minds).
He talks at length about which is better for both combatants and non-combatants : A brutal short war (total war), or a long, and drawn out clean/surgical war (hearts and minds).
Just and Unjust Wars
“A classic in the field” (New York Times), this is a penetrating investigation into moral and ethical questions raised by war, drawing on example...
Heavy reading, but covers what you said.
Its a nerd book.
Know how I know?
It only cost $6 shipped.
Despite my "maximum use of force" beliefs Im not on board with use of nukes tactically or strategically....yet.
I fear the precedent set.
We needed a footprint on the ground initially to show we could.
No one, myself included, thought our troops would be so wildly successful going through that hell country. But for our DOD relying on Afghanis at Tora Bora the only real strategic goal in AFG would have been secured in Dec of 2001.
Had the mission been limited to an achievable strategy we should have achieved it than left leaving a sign behind that basically said....
"We wont be coming back in person ever again, the next time you fuck with us the response will be from the air, our ships thousands of miles away and perhaps from silos in South Dakota.....Fuck around and find out to your own end....."
The simple way to have won in Afghan would have been to never have gone to Afghan.
How many empires try to play the same stupid game and think they are special and will have different results. Legit, just leave that place alone, nothing good has EVER come from messing with it, well minus for the defense industry making $$
How many empires try to play the same stupid game and think they are special and will have different results. Legit, just leave that place alone, nothing good has EVER come from messing with it, well minus for the defense industry making $$
Wear glasses while reading it in an overstuffed leather chair, and women will throw panties at you.
And how do you respond to 911?
Embargo shipments of rocks so they are limited to using the rocks they only have in country?
Police action?
Wait for UBL to plan a trip to Disney and arrest him in Miami?
Give them another Beirut Barracks example?
Do nothing and show them "Yes, yes indeed. We are pussies."?
Just curious.....
The mistake was allowing an open ended operation.
One reason I wish we had a draft is so that everyone has skin in the game.
Moms and Dads of America will ensure effective ROE and short wars if their kids number is coming up. Congress will be subject to daily ass rippings if the war lasts one day longer.
Send a small group out to hunt down a kill anyone involved, Israel has done this before.
But invading random countries and shitting on the constitution, don’t see how that makes mainstreet any safer
Heck I’d wager not fucking with crazy Middle East would also reduce the amount of crazy people from the Middle East who want to kill us.
I’d also suggest not allowing people in this country ,who lived in the part of the world we were blowing up, also might have been wise, it’s like picking on a kid for years and then inviting him to spend the night at your house.
But my suggestion doesn’t make cronies richer or more powerfully, and doesn’t get the scales tilted further in big gov and further away from individual liberty.
Afghanistan papers detail US dysfunction: 'We did not know what we were doing'
A key theme of the trove of documents published this week was the lack of coherence in Washington’s approach to Afghanistan from the outset
www.theguardian.com 
Afghanistan is like that corner restaurant that didn't survive 6 months.
The location looks great, but the last 20 business have failed in that spot.
No-one really knows why.
It's just a place to be avoided...
Aside from my vehement opposition to that idea as totally negating the entire idea of liberty & freedom and essentially saying you are slaves to the government;
I present the Vietnam War....
Very unpopular war with a very hated draft
It did NOT change the stupid ROE or way the war was fought. It was just enslave your most precious possessions and send them off to the grinder so the merchants of war could make maximum profit while letting the Communists win both at home and abroad.
I would agree to that.
Shame our country lacks the balls to do it because in order to do so the politicians would have to put country ahead of personal/party power.
Bush would have looked weak but as the heads of the planners were stuck on the points of the wrought iron fence surrounding the White House his seeming inaction would have been viewed as genius.
I have no doubt we have people that could have done it quietly and professionally.
Just sign a NDA with the SEALs that there are no book deals until AQ member "X" is killed.
I have a theory on this. The theory is, I think, pretty sound. He has severe dementia (Lewy Body) or Alzheimer's (technically a difference). As a result he needs to be in a familiar location or things get bad for him. People with severe dementia need the comfort of being in their surroundings where they "feel" more in control (if they still have any cognitive dissonance left). If this is truly the case, then somebody needs to grow some fortitude and speak out - on the record. Yes, I realize the Secret Service is sworn to secrecy; but somebody needs to bring this up....like on floor of House that he's mentally done and rip that band-aid right off so The People can see they were hornswoggled.after one day back in the office. And you only hear crickets chirping from the propaganda arm of the demcom party.
Karzai's family has a restaurant in Cambridge MA.
Guessing he will have a corner booth in there soon dealing heroin and lobbying for US money to return him to AFG where he will create a Republic.
One of my very few friends spent a year there. Thanksgiving day he was on top of a building that was next to one that was bombed. SR said he was blown across the roof to the other side of the building. Lost most of his hearing in both ears. His wife walked out on him last year. When I am able to communicate with him he said, he brought the war home with him. Heartbreaking.
Someone prospered, and it was not the grunts there.
Maxwell
Someone prospered, and it was not the grunts there.
Maxwell
Haha...I have been tempted to try the food there at Helmond. Rates highly for Afghani food, whatever the hell that is.
Military obligations were a tenet of our early Republic.
Standing armies are the threat the are proving to be.
If not a draft public education in defense. Membership at a local firing range with expected training and some sort of a command structure either voted on or through merit.
There is a reason that the communists have eroded our use of firearms, sense of the citizen soldier and created the idea of self defense as being bad.
Yep, agreed strongly. The US lost more than 2400 men and another ~20K got injured, and the Afghanis supposedly lost more than 65k of their own forces. We spent a trillion dollars and will probably spend at least that much in the next 40-50 years taking care of those who fought for us. And in the end, it doesn't appear that we accomplished anything that couldn't have been done with an orderly withdraw in 2003 or 2008 or 2011 or any other arbitrary point on the calendar.
In a proper system, such a waste of men, money, and prestige should have resulted in the replacement of both parties (since this mess is shared by both sides, including the schmuck currently occupying the WH). We no longer have a proper system.
I understand the goat is injection marinated.
if we had a draft…. The ones sending the Soldiers over aren’t sending their own, they’ll send yours and mine and theirs will get deferments and dodge it and live fat at the expense of the minions…. Make the ones sending the troops go over there and serve as well, and not sitting in a fob…. You guys get to be right on the front lines…. Guarantee they’ll be less likely to send Soldiers into harms way
Agree.
That would be totally compatible with freedom.
We all agree that educating our young people is a vital part of any society.
So instead of wasting time playing sports and such, you teach them how to shoot, fight and also how to do all the basic military stuff like read rank, understand orders and all that, so everybody grows up familiar with how things work. Perhaps also teach the more apt and keen ones how to use the crew served stuff and heavy weapons.
Then if a war needs to be fought, lots of people know how to do the fighting if they want to sign up to do so.
In addition, you would probably wind up with a steady stream of volunteers to keep the small core standing army/reaction force fully staffed.
For those parents / children with moral or religious objections to learning war, you could instead give them basic medical training.
Why am I hearing "Fortunate Son" playing in my head?
FBI has the laptop and the public viewed evidence of drug use, having sex with a minor, incest, lying on a 4473, tossing a gun in a trash can by a school, and hunter is lifestyles of the rich and famous.
Meanwhile we have political prisoners in the US, who at worst MAYBE trespassed in a public building.
People held after Jan. 6 Capitol incident, some not charged with a crime, still held in solitary confinement
When even Democrats such as Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) and Dick Durbin (D-IL) complain about poor treatment of Jan 6 participants, you know something is up; some have been held for months in solitary confinement
www.lawenforcementtoday.com
this is another laptop hunter claimed on the video that the russians stole so they could blackmail him.FBI has the laptop and the public viewed evidence of drug use, having sex with a minor, incest, lying on a 4473, tossing a gun in a trash can by a school, and hunter is lifestyles of the rich and famous.
Meanwhile we have political prisoners in the US, who at worst MAYBE trespassed in a public building.
People held after Jan. 6 Capitol incident, some not charged with a crime, still held in solitary confinement
When even Democrats such as Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) and Dick Durbin (D-IL) complain about poor treatment of Jan 6 participants, you know something is up; some have been held for months in solitary confinementwww.lawenforcementtoday.com
Hunter Biden’s Prostitute Videos Indict His Father And U.S. Intelligence
The issue here is not Hunter’s addiction or illegal behavior. Rather, it’s the intense corruption of the media, intelligence agencies, and president.
thefederalist.com 
Between 2 weeks and 2 months later, drop a second one. This way you'll always have that 'second opinion'.
I said it from day one.... this is what should have happened from the beginning. The ONLY thing closer to this, is President Bush (Sr.) and what he accomplished in Iraq. It was about a week's worth of war, starting with carpet bombing. That actually ACCOMPLISHED something, didn't it?
Yes, I agree that more could have been done,,,, but correct me if I'm wrong here, there was a LOT more definition and statement made in that 'situation' than there has been in the past 2 decades.
this is another laptop hunter claimed on the video that the russians stole so they could blackmail him.
Hunter Biden’s Prostitute Videos Indict His Father And U.S. Intelligence
The issue here is not Hunter’s addiction or illegal behavior. Rather, it’s the intense corruption of the media, intelligence agencies, and president.
Blackmail with what? There’s video of him statutory raping his own family member and no one cares, a Russian hooker? Shit that won’t even get you on the bus
Guess the comblocs actually had more faith in our justice system than mainstreet does, that’s a laugh or cry moment for ya
So, my honest question. I keep reading that the Afghan army that we spent billions on training and equipment is far superior in numbers and equipment than the taliban. So why are they getting rolled up so fast?
