Thinking about buying a suppressor...have questions

[Glock1943]

Well fellas I've always wanted a Daniel Defense so I took the plunge and purchased the M4A1 Mil Spec rifle. This is a beautiful weapon and I want it to be my premier rifle. I put a Sig Romeo 4T on it and I also have an Aimpoint Pro. Now I'm thinking about a suppressor, but have never looked into these as I haven't considered it in the past. I assume the first step is applying for a tax stamp? Is the Daniel Defense DD Wave a good suppressor? The reviews seem to think so. Thanks for any guidance on this as I'm a total newb to these.

 

[hlee]

The first step is purchasing a suppressor. As part of the purchasing process, you will apply for the stamp. If the vendor is not your transferring dealer, they will transfer the suppressor to your dealer. Your dealer will hold the suppressor in their inventory until your stamp clears.

I have no experience with the DD wave, but here are a couple of videos…




There are a lot of good silencers out there. No need to limit yourself to DD.

 

[nn8734]

Well fellas I've always wanted a Daniel Defense so I took the plunge and purchased the M4A1 Mil Spec rifle. This is a beautiful weapon and I want it to be my premier rifle. I put a Sig Romeo 4T on it and I also have an Aimpoint Pro. Now I'm thinking about a suppressor, but have never looked into these as I haven't considered it in the past. I assume the first step is applying for a tax stamp? Is the Daniel Defense DD Wave a good suppressor? The reviews seem to think so. Thanks for any guidance on this as I'm a total newb to these.

How much do you do you want to spend?

What’s important to you when it comes to features/attributes (durability, overall sound suppression, QD mount design, being “clone correct”, etc)?

 

[rlsmith1]

You will want to take a look around and see which gun shops are able to do a suppressor transfer. I've used the Silencershop map for this but there's others who have a more complete list (Hansohn Brothers, Capitol Army, etc.) that may help you find something closer to you.

Daniel may make a good suppressor but I've never used one. Surefire or Dead Air are proven hard use cans on the AR platform. If you don't need something that is full auto rated there's a lot of other options out there as well

 

[houndog]

First, congratulations on your DD rifle. I own a couple of DD uppers and they are top notch. Can't tell you anything about their suppressors though.

As to what suppressor to get, here are a couple of things you need to think about:

1. Budget - On the low end you can probably find something for around $500, maybe less if you can get in on sale. On the upper end, you can be north of $1,000.

2. Length and weight - how important is that to you? As a general rule lighter/shorter suppressors will not suppress quite as well and will not be as durable - i.e. no multiple mag dumps and don't attach to a 10.5" barrel.

3. Conversely, if you want a suppressor where you just don't have to worry about ever overheating it, you're probably looking at something a little heavier (and probably a little pricier).

4. Method of attaching to rifle. If you are only going to put your suppressor on one rifle and leave it there, direct thread is probably fine. However, if you can see a day where you want to switch between rifles having some kind of quick attach/detach system is really the way to go.

5. 5.56 or 7.62? Again, if this is just going on your AR, probably best to get a 5.56 suppressor. However, if you think you might someday want to also attach to a larger caliber rifle, get the 7.62.

6. Blow-back. Some suppressors are designed to minimize blowback. Others not so much. Is this something you care about?

How you answer these questions will really help you narrow down your choices. For example, I shoot lefty and my faces is right by the chamber, so blowback is a big issue for me ... but is probably less of a factor for a righty. I swap my suppressor between multiple guns, both 5.56 and 7.62, so I really like having a quick detach system and a 5.56 can doesn't work for me. One of my AR's has a 10.5" barrel, another an 11.5" barrel, and while I don't do mag dumps, I just don't want to have to worry about durability. And while I don't want to attach a boat anchor to the end of my barrel, I find that on a short barreled rifle a couple of ounces doesn't really make a difference to me.

Based on the foregoing I ended up with a Dead Air Sandman S, which I really love. But if I had been willing to sacrifice a little bit of durability, a Nomad would have also been a good choice. And if wanted to get the lightest suppressor possible, and was willing to forego mag dumps, a Nomad Ti would have been a good choice. And finally, if I knew I only wanted a 5.56 suppressor, there's a new Dead Air model that's just for 5.56 (can't recall the name). So, just looking at one company's line, you can see there are a lot of choices and what model you choose will depend on your intended use. And of course, there are a half dozen other companies with excellent reputations that will have a model that works for you. But the starting point is thinking about how you will use the suppressor and what features are important to you.

 

[Glock1943]

This is aweseme! So many things I didn't think about. You guys have given me a great place to start my research.

The first step is purchasing a suppressor. As part of the purchasing process, you will apply for the stamp. If the vendor is not your transferring dealer, they will transfer the suppressor to your dealer. Your dealer will hold the suppressor in their inventory until your stamp clears.

I have no experience with the DD wave, but here are a couple of videos…




There are a lot of good silencers out there. No need to limit yourself to DD.

Fantastic! Thanks for the videos.

 

[Glock1943]

How much do you do you want to spend?

What’s important to you when it comes to features/attributes (durability, overall sound suppression, QD mount design, being “clone correct”, etc)?

No more than 1k on price. The DD is around $780. I'm unsure what's important to me yet. I'll have to research the QD mount design and I'm not sure what "clone correct" is.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Spend a few bucks more and get a TBAC Dominus SR. If you get a 50% off cert on here for $250 or a free cert for $800ish you can stay in your budget. One can that is as amazing on a gas gun burning it down as it is on a precision rifle.

 

[nn8734]

No more than 1k on price. The DD is around $780. I'm unsure what's important to me yet. I'll have to research the QD mount design and I'm not sure what "clone correct" is.

Clone correct means using a suppressor that was/is issued to end users of the M4A1 and its variants. Examples would be the Surefire 5.56 RC2 and KAC QDSS NT4.

Id run a SF Socom RC2. I use all SF cans and they work great, have a rock solid locking QD mechanism and can usually be found for less than a grand.

To help w/requirements, here’s what’s important to me for carbine suppressoors, in no particular order:
- POI shift (minimal as possible from unsuppressed)
- Durability/Hard use - full auto rated cans meet this requirement
- overall flash suppression
- Manufacturer tech support in csse its needed

Those are dictated by how i use the carbine(s).

 

[Clayman]

Well fellas I've always wanted a Daniel Defense so I took the plunge and purchased the M4A1 Mil Spec rifle. This is a beautiful weapon and I want it to be my premier rifle. I put a Sig Romeo 4T on it and I also have an Aimpoint Pro. Now I'm thinking about a suppressor, but have never looked into these as I haven't considered it in the past. I assume the first step is applying for a tax stamp? Is the Daniel Defense DD Wave a good suppressor? The reviews seem to think so. Thanks for any guidance on this as I'm a total newb to these.

Imo you can go Surefire RC2 but you will want to change to a heavier buffer and possibly a sprinco spring. If you do go RC2 make sure you get the 3 prong flash hider with Labyrinth seals. Mounts like the warcomp leak decreasing performance notably.

OSS 556 hx qd ti is a great option that will require no tuning. The OSS has almost zero increase in bolt speed or gas to your face. This will sound good to you the shooter. It will be a bit louder at the muzzle to bystanders compared to the RC2.

 

[TapRackBang]

Look at the mounts, because once you commit the cost of adding or changing to a new style of quick mount will become an issue as you add more silencers or guns you want to mount it on.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

# 1 consideration is how quick you can get it into the "suppressor jail"....
# 2 consideration is "Can you get your paper work started today"...............

A somewhat analytical mind should settle on a suppressor in a few hours. You can spend months reading reviews and propaganda from people who never owned a suppressor. Bottom line is this will be yours, make it yours as soon as possible and move on. The person writing the rave reviews probably is stuck with a unit he does not like and wants to spread the misery....

At any time now, this administration can stonewall the paperwork until you die of old age....

JMHO

 

[Jefe's Dope]

ACC M4-2000 has been the standard for some time now. Not sure how it stands up to the competition now as it's a bit long in the tooth. But it works and is durable. Mostly, ACC backs it up with very good CS. I've had mine "fixed" at no cost to me except shipping to them.

AAC M4-2000

The world's most effective 5.56mm silencer just got better.

www.silencershop.com

Price is nice too. I assume due to age and more competition.

 

[tucaz]

before you buy, consider this….cans on anything over 12.5” get nose heavy and annoying IMO

i do use suppressors on scoped, precision rifles that get shot from a bipod though.

the only other rifles that get suppressed are 12.5” or less. my 14.5 and 16 never but YMMV

 

[PBWalsh]

www.pewscience.com is where you need to start. Educate yourself and from there figure out what exactly you need/want.

 

[Snaz]

Look at the mounts, because once you commit the cost of adding or changing to a new style of quick mount will become an issue as you add more silencers or guns you want to mount it on.

This is very important.

 

[lil'skeet]

If you want to cut down on the wait time go "form 1" homemade suppressor. Won't save you much on the supressor itself, but the wait time is a month or 2, unless the 3 letter agency has fucked that up too.
BTW, 30 cal suppressor will work fine for 5.56 (thread adapter) and the gain of sound will be miniscule.

 

[houndog]

One other piece of advice - which other posters have made reference to, as someone new to suppressors probably makes sense to get it from the Silencer Shop, Hansohn Brothers or some other seller that specializes in suppressors. The paperwork, fingerprinting, etc, can be a real PITA and they will be set up to make the process as easy as possible. They will also be set up for electronic filing with the ATF, which will dramatically reduce the wait time for ATF approval. I think electronic filing is being processed in about 3 months. Traditional paper filing is now at 1 year plus.

In addition, someone like Silencer Shop can give you good advice about what suppressor will best meet your needs.

 

[gac700]

Find a Silencer Shop dealer
Sign up for eforms
Thunderbeast Dominus CB or SR - I have both and now use the CB on everything.

 

[hlee]

Are Form 1s being approved now?

I got 2 form1 SBRs back in the last couple of months. And, I have seen a few reports of form1 suppressors also getting through fairly recently.

 

[hlee]

Agree on accounts. Form1 suppressors are "advanced mode."

 

[346ci]

If this is a dedicated gas gun can, mitigating blow back should be your top priority. Nothing like getting gas faced when shooting.

 

[lil'skeet]

Are Form 1s being approved now?

I haven't heard that they weren't at the moment. FJB and the gang are trying their best though.

15 Republican senators That need to be fired and handed to the people that they are supposed to represent. FUCK THEM!!

They all Voted for The gun control bill.

Roy Blunt (Mo.),
Richard Burr (N.C.),
Shelley Moore Capito (W.Va.),
Bill Cassidy (La.),
Susan Collins (Maine),
John Cornyn (Texas),
Joni Ernst (Iowa),
Lindsey Graham (S.C.),
Mitch McConnell (Ky.),
Lisa Murkowski (Alaska),
Rob Portman (Ohio),
Mitt Romney (Utah),
Thom Tillis (N.C.),
Pat Toomey (Pa.)
Todd Young (Ind.).

 

[munch520]

Suppressing 5.56 is like drinking decaf or cuddling with a hooker. Kinda pointless so stablish your expectations (re: actual sound suppression) accordingly.

I personally value length/weight over sound suppression as a result. After over a decade with Surefire products I'm definitely on their bandwagon. Have abused the living crap out of the 556-212, SOCOM556-mini, and SOCOM762-mini with no issues, other than a sticky lock ring on the 556-mini after ~7500 rounds of m193 on SBRs. They not only fixed it in a week, but completely refinished it and overnighted it back to me. To say I'm blown away by the support is an understatement. Not the quietest out there and blowback is a thing but their signature reduction as a whole (sound, directionality, and flash) is one of the best. And their mounting system really is minimal to no zero shift.

I've started using Rugged cans as well, and they're pretty modular and innovative, great warranty too. Have been around Zach at some industry events and they know their shit/are good people. Have 2 Radiant 762s pending for use on bolt guns, 300BO, etc. Not as easy/elegant of a collar solution though as compared to Surefire.

The 762SOCOM-mini is the same size as a full size 556SOCOM. Great multi-caliber option but will be a bit louder. Here's 762 and 556 minis side by side:

The 556-mini on something like this 11.5 make for a very handy combo, with an OAL close to a 16"-barreled upper. A little heavier up front but that's why I like larger/heavier stocks. Balance is key IMO, weight is secondary.

 

[hlee]

Some people favor short and light so much over suppression that they might as well have put a thread protector on their rifles. It is a silencer. It should be quiet. If it is not, put a brake on the gun- or a flashhider, or a thread protector.

 

[tucaz]

Some people favor short and light so much over suppression that they might as well have put a thread protector on their rifles. It is a silencer. It should be quiet. If it is not, put a brake on the gun- or a flashhider, or a thread protector.

are you talking about centerfire, rifle, sonic rounds here? i have seen one yet that is "quiet".

i hear very little difference between my m4 2000 and a super short thread mount one from HTG that is 10 years old...they all seem about the same but shooting any centrerfire sonic round without hears is foolish.

 

[munch520]

Some people favor short and light so much over suppression that they might as well have put a thread protector on their rifles. It is a silencer. It should be quiet. If it is not, put a brake on the gun- or a flashhider, or a thread protector.

How will a supersonic spicy 22 out of a short barrel will ever be close to anything 'quiet'? We all can nerd out on dB ratings, but real world...it's all loud AF. Many other things, like signature reduction and friendly fire discrimination come into play.

If you want quiet go buy a 300 or 22 and shoot subs. Or try and use a musket (16" + full size can) to clear structures on the regular. Otherwise, there's way more to the discussion than how 'silent' 5.56 is going to be. Like @tucaz said...mini can or full size. All loud, only real difference I've ever felt is more volume = more blowback. At the shooters ear, no difference.

 

[hlee]

Plenty of cans get below the 140 dB threshold at the shooter’s ear. Not smart to go full ham on mag dumps without ear pro regardless. But, a k can (that doesn’t get there) on a shorty rifle is a waste. (The YHM Turbo K rates below 140 at the shooters ear from a 16” AR rifle.)

There are few scenarios where a silencer has an advantage over a brake in a PRS/NRL event.

Brakes are shorter, lighter, and give less recoil. And they’re less expensive, and readily available on demand.

I do like a suppressed rifle in a run and gun event, as I can get away with just plugs- not doubled up with ear muffs.

A silencer that can get a supersonic cartridge down to below 140 at the shooters ear (and there are many) is great for the hunter, where s/he can afford the length penalty. A k can that stays above 140 has much less appeal, as ear pro may still be strongly recommended. ‘Taking the edge off’ is just lying to yourself about the hearing damage. Hell, taking OSHA guidelines as gospel probably is too, but I’ll take more suppression over less in this scenario.

I suppose signature is a concern for night hunters (NV flare) and operators (tactical considerations), but I’m neither.

I agree that ‘nerding out’ on dB ratings is wasted effort after a point. But, is sound suppression REALLY the last thing you consider in a silencer? Would you pay upwards of $1000, plus a 4 month to a year + wait, plus a $200 tax stamp, plus being ‘on the list,’ for a flash hider/linear compensator? Would you buy a silencer that eliminated ‘signature,’ was short and light and bomb proof, but increased the report by 4 fold?

 

[munch520]

Plenty of cans get below the 140 dB threshold at the shooter’s ear. Not smart to go full ham on mag dumps without ear pro regardless. But, a k can (that doesn’t get there) on a shorty rifle is a waste. (The YHM Turbo K rates below 140 at the shooters ear from a 16” AR rifle.)

There are few scenarios where a silencer has an advantage over a brake in a PRS/NRL event.

Brakes are shorter, lighter, and give less recoil. And they’re less expensive, and readily available on demand.

I do like a suppressed rifle in a run and gun event, as I can get away with just plugs- not doubled up with ear muffs.

A silencer that can get a supersonic cartridge down to below 140 at the shooters ear (and there are many) is great for the hunter, where s/he can afford the length penalty. A k can that stays above 140 has much less appeal, as ear pro may still be strongly recommended. ‘Taking the edge off’ is just lying to yourself about the hearing damage. Hell, taking OSHA guidelines as gospel probably is too, but I’ll take more suppression over less in this scenario.

I suppose signature is a concern for night hunters (NV flare) and operators (tactical considerations), but I’m neither.

I agree that ‘nerding out’ on dB ratings is wasted effort after a point. But, is sound suppression REALLY the last thing you consider in a silencer? Would you pay upwards of $1000, plus a 4 month to a year + wait, plus a $200 tax stamp, plus being ‘on the list,’ for a flash hider/linear compensator? Would you buy a silencer that eliminated ‘signature,’ was short and light and bomb proof, but increased the report by 4 fold?

Plenty do you're right, but they're all still loud. And the "plenty" of cans that get there are still within 10-12dB of shorter cans. Can you hear that difference?

Mayhaps? OP is talking about a regular Daniel Defense, and when I see that platform my mind goes to duty/defensive gun before PRS.

Signature could also be a consideration for anyone that may grab their AR as a defensive tool in low/no light. From both perspectives.

I get your point for sure, but I think that's purposefully obtuse. Obviously shorter cans are still quieter than an unsuppressed shot. And to answer your question, yes. I've spent thousands doing just that. I've shot the full size cans and shorter cans, notice really no difference so have prioritized weight/length over something that's a little less loud. Keep in mind, I was also talking about SBRs. So OAL is a consideration and yes, any can will be loud on something like a 11.5".

As I said, I've also purchased a couple large cans (7.5" I believe) for use on super-short 300blk guns and bolt guns. Different use case entirely. Full size can on a 8" blk is obviously not a length issue, and that extra 9-12oz is no biggie on a bolt gun.

 

[hlee]

If I have to touch one off in a house, and I’m given the choice between a silencer rifle that rates at 150, and one that rates at 139, I’ll take the latter. 10 dB is a 10x difference in sound pressure, which typically translates to about 4x louder to the human ear. 150dB is essentially an unsuppressed 12ga shotgun. Yes, I can tell the difference between that and a suppressed supersonic 223.

Gunfire Noise Level Reference Chart - EAR Customized Hearing Protection

Read more:

earinc.com

 

[hlee]

The above notwithstanding, if you are coming at suppressor ownership from the view of “I will always be wearing some form of hearing protection,” then prioritizing suppression down the list makes sense. A pair of foamies does more to protect your ears than the best silencer. But, for most civilian applications, once you put in the stipulation that you are wearing hearing protection, I have to ask “why silencer?”

 

[munch520]

Probably because you're wearing ear pro

negative

 

[kthomas]

The above notwithstanding, if you are coming at suppressor ownership from the view of “I will always be wearing some form of hearing protection,” then prioritizing suppression down the list makes sense. A pair of foamies does more to protect your ears than the best silencer. But, for most civilian applications, once you put in the stipulation that you are wearing hearing protection, I have to ask “why silencer?”

I wear hearing pro and shoot suppressed.

I just find it way more comfortable to shoot suppressed than with a brake. Way more comfortable. To me, it's a big difference, and one that definitely justifies the cost and hassles of getting a suppressor.

I just slap on my MSA muffs when I'm at the range. Without suppressors, I'm doubling up every time. I don't want to mess around with my hearing.

But that's just me. Everyone has their own objectives and comfort levels, so do what makes the most sense for you.

 

[houndog]

For me the difference between suppressed and unsuppressed is being able to just put plugs in my ears vs. plugs and then muffs over them. It's nice not to feel like I'm completely deaf to any noise surrounding me. (Yes, I suppose it would be cheaper to just buy electronic muffs/earpro).

Plus, for whatever reason, I just like the way my 10.5" and 11.5" AR's balance with a suppressor on the end. The rifle also seems to stay really flat during recoil so faster follow up shots.

And of course it just looks cool.

 

[Waorani]

Don't waste your money/time on a Form 1 DIY suppressor unless you're doing it for the fun of it and/or have access to good suppressor design/machining ability. If not, all you'll end up with is a mediocre performing suppressor at best.

 

[munch520]

If I have to touch one off in a house, and I’m given the choice between a silencer rifle that rates at 150, and one that rates at 139, I’ll take the latter. 10 dB is a 10x difference in sound pressure, which typically translates to about 4x louder to the human ear. 150dB is essentially an unsuppressed 12ga shotgun. Yes, I can tell the difference between that and a suppressed supersonic 223.

Gunfire Noise Level Reference Chart - EAR Customized Hearing Protection

Read more:

earinc.com

Cool man you do you

 

[Cordova13]

Doesn’t the Daniel Defense m4A1 have a pinned flash hider on 14.5 barrel? Might make this a little more difficult for you.

 

[houndog]

That's actually a good point Cordova. I have a DD upper (which I really like) that I purchased from Brownells for a pretty good price. One of the things I liked is that it didn't come with a FH, bolt carrier group or charging handle. Enabled me to put on a Dead Air muzzle brake, use one of several extra bolt carrier groups I have lying around and put in an ambidextrous charging handle, which I would do anyway. Works great with my Dead Air Sandman S.

And if you already have a lower that you've SBR'd (I have a couple) the 14.5" barrel isn't an issue.

 

[munch520]

Except that picture you posted of yourself wearing ear-pro shooting your suppressor of course...

oh shit! you got me.

or, just spitballing here, maybe there wasn't a media guy there taking pictures on the days I was shooting the various cans for comparison.

 

[munch520]

I can hear a very noticeable difference in my modular .30 cal can in K version vs. in L version after screwing 4 more baffles on. I really can't understand how you can legitimately say there's no real difference. I feel you talked yourself into this naysayer position and now feel obligated to defend it.

It's a forum man, I'm not going to die on any hill, don't really care tbh. You can "feel" however you'd like to!

There's no question data that shows they're quieter, as I said above. And as I've said numerous times I can't tell enough difference from my ear, tone sometimes is different but the volume of the sound, I don't notice as much. Way back when I did try various-sized cans without ear pro, I arrived at this conclusion. I apologize, I do not have photographic evidence to provide to you RE: lack of ear pro.

So I've chosen to prioritize weight/length as the setup/use of the gun dictates. And yes, I feel suppressing a 5.56 SBR is somewhat an exercise in futility.

When weight and length aren't as much of a consideration, I do have longer cans. But those are other calibers.

 

[munch520]

A huge majority of people would disagree with you. Your opinion is most likely an outlier of stray voltage.

Would disagree that the intended use of the rifle drive the gear/outfitting decisions? That’s really all I’m saying. Especially w ear pro as pointed out by others above.

As far as not hearing much difference between suppressor sizes on 556 guns, there’s literally other posters in this thread that say the same thing.

 

[E. Bryant]

I'm not going to repost all the various thoughts I've expressed regarding the performance of short silencers on short 5.56 semi-auto rifles, or the nuance of hearing damage dose. I will attempt to summarize it with the following statements:

1) There is no simple definition of "hearing safe". 140 dB has no significance beyond a 50-year-old OSHA regulation. Each and every gunshot has the potential to cause cumulative hearing damage. That potential is greatly reduced via the use of suppressors, but the number of shots also matters. High round counts through a "quiet" system can easily be more damaging than low volume of fire through a "loud" gun. There is no easy way to determine if you "need" earpro when shooting a suppressed gun!

2) Even a poor suppressor is much better than none at all, so for hunting or home defense applications where using earpro may not be practical, go ahead and use a K-can. It may still be "loud", but you're still reducing the risk of hearing damage by a factor of maybe 50-100x that of a bare muzzle.

3) Especially on short semi-autos, it is difficult to balance performance at the muzzle vs. that at the shooter's ear. The presence of reflective surfaces further complicates this discussion.

4) Different suppressors have different frequency response ("tone"), and there is substantial variation from person to person as to what sounds better. In particular, a suppressor that is quieter overall but has peak signature that lines up with the frequency range of prior damage might sound subjectively worse than a louder silencer. Beware of trusting subjective evaluations - especially if the observer has hearing damage (hint: most of the members here have some).