Thinking of cutting a CZ 452v for a suppressor

[11B-B4]

I was thinking of building a trainer but want to be able to put a sound suppressor on it.

For threading i would either use ADCO firearms or Tornado Tech. They both do good, precise, concentric threading. The question i have is this:


My idea is to cut the CZ 452 Varmint. It is 21" I could either cut the barrel to 18" for a more manageable package or leave it as is not disturbing the target crown and just thread it. Thats probably the best bet i suppose.
Have any of you cut your CZ's for suppressors? If so did you see a loss of accuravy or no? If you had a good experience who did you use? Thanks alot for the help. -Evan

 

[wksinatl]

Re: Thinking of cutting a CZ 452v for a suppressor

I understand what your thought process is. I considered doing it to my CZ varmint but it ended up staying the full length and just threaded. Shoots damn good and am afraid it might not after making it shorter.

I thought cut it to 16" and thread. BUT, I know a guy who had his cut to 18" (and re-crowned)and it didn't shoot very well. He was told that it might have been cut at a length that the bore was not as tight as the original length. He cut another 1" off and recrowned it and it shoots like a Mo Fo. If he would have had it cut at 16" to start with he would have been screwed.

If it shoots good now I say leave it and have it threaded. If it doesn't shoot as well as you think it (realistically)should then have it cut to 18".

BTW, My CZ loves the chap 510's.

Just my .02

Keith

 

[superde]

Re: Thinking of cutting a CZ 452v for a suppressor

Mine shoots very well at 16" - better than it did originally. I had a friend cut/thread/recrown it for me.

 

[11B-B4]

Re: Thinking of cutting a CZ 452v for a suppressor

Suppresor research shows that a longer barrel will produce a quieter signature with a sound suppressor due to more gas being burned up in the barrel before reaching the suppressor. Having said that im sure a 21 would probably be around 2 DB quieter than a 16" Maybe even more. I guess i will shoot it and see how it groups as is before cutting it. If it groups well i'll just thread it; if not cut and thread.

As far as chap 510's?? im not familiar.

Also whats a good group size to expect from a 452V? Im sure its ammo dependent. Or is there a thread out there about this? Thanks

 

[wksinatl]

Re: Thinking of cutting a CZ 452v for a suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 11B-B4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Suppresor research shows that a longer barrel will produce a quieter signature with a sound suppressor due to more gas being burned up in the barrel before reaching the suppressor. Having said that im sure a 21 would probably be around 2 DB quieter than a 16" Maybe even more. I guess i will shoot it and see how it groups as is before cutting it. If it groups well i'll just thread it; if not cut and thread.

<span style="font-weight: bold">As far as chap 510's?? im not familiar.
</span>
Also whats a good group size to expect from a 452V? Im sure its ammo dependent. Or is there a thread out there about this? Thanks </div></div>


Oops. That should be CHEAP 510's. Aguila also shot great in mine.

Have you tried RimfireCentral? http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=18

With the right scope, right ammo, right guy squeezing the right trigger you should see 1/2" groups at 50yds.

Lots can be done to better the trigger. Make sure the barrel is TOTALLY floated. It seems most CZs has the barrel touching the stock on the right side.

Keith

 

[KAZ]

Re: Thinking of cutting a CZ 452v for a suppressor

I have the factory threaded 16" and it shoots as good(great) as my Varmint. I believe that all 22LR barrels should be 16" unless you need the longer sight plane, as that length is optimum for the cartridge. When they thread the barrel they will re crown. Smiths do it all the time to damaged crowns. The factory made some factory threaded Varmints(HotRod9mm has one)as they are common in Europe. Regards

 

[wksinatl]

Re: Thinking of cutting a CZ 452v for a suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KAZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have the factory threaded 16" and it shoots as good(great) as my Varmint. <span style="font-weight: bold">I believe that all 22LR barrels should be 16" unless you need the longer sight plane</span>, as that length is optimum for the cartridge. When they thread the barrel they will re crown. Smiths do it all the time to damaged crowns. The factory made some factory threaded Varmints(HotRod9mm has one)as they are common in Europe. Regards </div></div>

I agree.

Keith

 

[puppezed]

Re: Thinking of cutting a CZ 452v for a suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 11B-B4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My idea is to cut the CZ 452 Varmint. It is 21" I could either cut the barrel to 18" for a more manageable package or leave it as is not disturbing the target crown and just thread it. Thats probably the best bet i suppose.
Have any of you cut your CZ's for suppressors? If so did you see a loss of accuravy or no? If you had a good experience who did you use? Thanks alot for the help. -Evan </div></div>
My 452 Varmint came with suppressor threads from the factory. If you are going to sever your barrel, you should gauge the barrel (correct verb for searching for the tightest section in the barrel?

). Some people do this by pushing a lead bullet through the barrel. Cutting the barrel at a loose section will usually ruin the accuracy. If in doubt, use a gunsmith.

I´d cut the barrel to 16" since suppressor will bring more length and weight to the end of the barrel. This would also reduce barrel time for the bullet. At least with standard velocity ammo this usually increases the muzzle velocity which is a good and a bad thing. Your favourite standard velocity cheap bulk ammo might go supersonic.

 

[bohem]

Re: Thinking of cutting a CZ 452v for a suppressor

I have a feeling that the guy who's barrel was trimmed to 18" and it shot like crap, then cut back another inch and now shoots great is not due to "bore is loose" but rather from the vibratory anti-node present.

18" is probably a node, 17" is an anti-node and it is less disturbing to the round. The rifle may shoot differently with the suppressor on at 17" and very poor with it off at 17"

Think "tuning collar" for a 22 rimfire.

 

[puppezed]

Re: Thinking of cutting a CZ 452v for a suppressor

Could be that too. I never thought that barrel harmonics would affect heavy barrel .22 lr that much since many of the guns shoot suprisingly well even if the barrel touches the stock.

The front end of the barrel is critical to accuracy in any rifle and I know a few cases where barrel was cut and accuracy was lost. Recutting the barrel at a tight spot and crowning (both by a good gunsmith) restored the accuracy.

 

[11B-B4]

Re: Thinking of cutting a CZ 452v for a suppressor

Are the 16" threaded varmints sold by anyone in the US??? IF anyone knows that would solve my problem i guess. Thanks

 

[Aries64]

Re: Thinking of cutting a CZ 452v for a suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: puppezed</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 11B-B4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My idea is to cut the CZ 452 Varmint. It is 21" I could either cut the barrel to 18" for a more manageable package or leave it as is not disturbing the target crown and just thread it. Thats probably the best bet i suppose.
Have any of you cut your CZ's for suppressors? If so did you see a loss of accuravy or no? If you had a good experience who did you use? Thanks alot for the help. -Evan </div></div>
My 452 Varmint came with suppressor threads from the factory. If you are going to sever your barrel, you should gauge the barrel (correct verb for searching for the tightest section in the barrel?

). Some people do this by pushing a lead bullet through the barrel. Cutting the barrel at a loose section will usually ruin the accuracy. If in doubt, use a gunsmith.</div></div>
The procedure you are referring to is called <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"slugging a barrel"</span></span>, whereby pushing a bullet/slug down the bore helps one to find a tight spot. Cutting and crowning at a tight point in the bore helps accuracy for obvious reasons.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: puppezed</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I´d cut the barrel to 16" since suppressor will bring more length and weight to the end of the barrel. This would also reduce barrel time for the bullet. At least with standard velocity ammo this usually increases the muzzle velocity which is a good and a bad thing. Your favourite standard velocity cheap bulk ammo might go supersonic. </div></div>
In some cases the addition of a suppressor can actually <span style="font-style: italic">slightly</span> increase velocity due to the fact that the bullet is free of bore friction but it is still being propelled by the gases. This phenomenon is known as <span style="font-style: italic">"freebore boost".</span>

Keith

 

[blcouch]

Re: Thinking of cutting a CZ 452v for a suppressor

I have a CZ452 varmint in .22lr that I bought from ADCO. I had them cut the barrel to 16" and profile it for and install the OPS INC brake and collar. I have a 12th model MBS I use on my MK12 that I now use on the CZ and it will print less than an inch at 100 yds with the 8 dollar-a-box match stuff. I topped it with a Bushnell 10x40mm mildot. In the process of inletting a blank for it patterned after the A5.

 

[11B-B4]

Re: Thinking of cutting a CZ 452v for a suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blcouch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a CZ452 varmint in .22lr that I bought from ADCO. I had them cut the barrel to 16" and profile it for and install the OPS INC brake and collar. I have a 12th model MBS I use on my MK12 that I now use on the CZ and it will print less than an inch at 100 yds with the 8 dollar-a-box match stuff. I topped it with a Bushnell 10x40mm mildot. In the process of inletting a blank for it patterned after the A5. </div></div>

I called tornado and they are behind in threading so im sending it out to adco. I figure i'll have them cut it to 17" that way even if the crown isnt just right I can have it redone and stay over the legal limit.

As far as your 12th model do you have an ultrasonic cleaning tank for it? I would recommend either getting an ultrasonic tank or buying a dedicated 22 unit that you can disassemble and clean. They can be had for not too much money. That can has got to be whisper quiet on a 22lr

Where did you get your stock, can we have a look? I love the A5 profile, it would be great to get something similar on my 452. Thanks

 

[blcouch]

Re: Thinking of cutting a CZ 452v for a suppressor




the guys at ADCO and the guy who welds the cans for OPS INC both said there would be no problem with .22lr through the can. They said the blast from the .556 would clean it out pretty well. I also run some P'blaster through it occassionally. In other words, the volume of .22lr I run in the can doesn't concern me.

 

[corsicacoatings]

Re: Thinking of cutting a CZ 452v for a suppressor

My 22 suppressor demo gun is an American threaded. I just cut my 17M2 to 17" and threaded it. Much quieter even with the supersonic crack using a TAC 65.

 

[HotRod9mm]

Re: Thinking of cutting a CZ 452v for a suppressor

My factory threaded 17HM2 Varmint is a lot quiter also with my OBII...

 

[KAZ]

Re: Thinking of cutting a CZ 452v for a suppressor

I believe that 11B is correct about finding a Smith who will slug the barrel prior to any cutting to find the sweet spot. It might be 16.5", or maybe anywhere along the barrel. I've only just recently begun to appreciate the fact that there is more to it than a straight cut,centered thread, and a good crown. I just acquired a rimfire 40X made by a Smith(Calfee) who is to rimfire what George is to center fire. He considers the barrel the most important component and starts with 26" and slugs until he finds the best length. I know that it seems like a lot more effort, but none of us will keep one that won't shoot.

 

[TonyC]

Re: Thinking of cutting a CZ 452v for a suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blcouch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


the guys at ADCO and the guy who welds the cans for OPS INC both said there would be no problem with .22lr through the can. They said the blast from the .556 would clean it out pretty well. I also run some P'blaster through it occassionally. In other words, the volume of .22lr I run in the can doesn't concern me.
</div></div>

It's generally not recommended to swap a moderator/supressor between rimfire and centrefire. The .22lr is very dirty as you know and you end up with unburned powder in the supressor.... then you put it on to a centrefire with a muzzle flash.....

I've never seen it happen and I have a .223 mod which occasionally goes on to a .22 AR but I would not put a huge volume of rounds through it. I do give it a squirt of WD40 as recommended by the manufacturer to protect against corrosion and it will no doubt help neutralise any remaining powder.

Regardless, you will find that the lower volume cans seem to be more effective on a .22lr than a larger can designed for centrefire gas volumes.

Enjoy regardless, a moderated/supressed .22lr with subsonics is a huge fun to shoot!

TC

 

[corsicacoatings]

Re: Thinking of cutting a CZ 452v for a suppressor

Tony is correct....really shouldn't use a center fire can on a 22 LR....they are not nearly as effective as one designed for rimfire and the filthy 22 shells make a caked on mess to clean. It is not so much the powder, but the lead spray you get from firing 22's in the bigger can. I put about 300 rounds of 22 subs thru a 9mm can before I believed it was a problem....made a real mess and I won't do it again!!

 

[Irelander]

Re: Thinking of cutting a CZ 452v for a suppressor

I have a CZ 452 American .22 that I really wanted to have threaded for my TAC65 suppressor. The rifle shoots so good I was afraid that I would screw it put by having it threaded. So, I figured I'd just keep it the way it is and buy a CZ 452 American with the 16" threaded barrel. The European threads won't work with my TAC65 but HotRod9mm makes a handy adaptor that converts the threads to 1/2x28. Why thread your standard barrel when you can buy another CZ with threads already on it?

 

[11B-B4]

Re: Thinking of cutting a CZ 452v for a suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Irelander</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a CZ 452 American .22 that I really wanted to have threaded for my TAC65 suppressor. The rifle shoots so good I was afraid that I would screw it put by having it threaded. So, I figured I'd just keep it the way it is and buy a CZ 452 American with the 16" threaded barrel. The European threads won't work with my TAC65 but HotRod9mm makes a handy adaptor that converts the threads to 1/2x28. Why thread your standard barrel when you can buy another CZ with threads already on it? </div></div>

Ha ha sounds like a gun habit. Maybe buy a varmint version this time for variety? If you do the slugging method prescribed by some people here and have someone competent cut the threads than the suppressor could effect the shooting more than the threading and crown itself. Sometimes suppressor bores are not concentric to the threads of the suppressor. What could happen if the bore is tight enough is that as bullets pass from chamber to chamber there is a high pressure side and low pressure side of the baffle hole as the bullet isn't passing through the bore at a dead center. This pressure variance could scew the bullet. That's why some suppressors actually open up group sizes. I haven't seen it happen with most industry suppressors as most aren't cut super tight. But I think as the industry gets more high performance oriented you might see some of that with tighter bore cans. The Tac65 has a fairly large bore though so shouldn't degrade accuracy. There aren't any 22 cans made that do currently that im aware of. But the phenomenon exists. haha kinda off topic but interesting. Enjoy your next CZ! id go for a varmint model though if you already have an American.

 

[titleiiredneck]

Re: Thinking of cutting a CZ 452v for a suppressor

Either way will work, just make sure a smith confirms your bore is centered with threads for the adapter if you go wth the euro threaded version. I have used both adaptered and cut and threaded and both work just fine.

 

[cvedrick]

Re: Thinking of cutting a CZ 452v for a suppressor

I do not know about the varmint version, I have the "American" version and it has one of those tapered barrels that seem to be populer in europe. I had to get a .17 dewey rod to fit it.

If this is the case on yours, you might not want to cut it down since you will be messing with a geometry that was very deliberately built into your rifles barrel.