Looks like MDs are getting direction to charge more for two day rimfire matches. That will grow the sport. 
- Thread starter Rob01
- Start date
ouch
not all matches/venues are the same. that's why NRL X matches had such a big spread in entry fees
not all matches/venues are the same. that's why NRL X matches had such a big spread in entry fees
Yup. The MD should figure what his fee will be. Not a minimum of $180 and going up from there. Not every venue needs all that stuff and honestly match shirts are something that’s not needed. ETA: forgot to add food is also not needed. Throw some granola bars in your pack. Honestly I have always hated food at matches as it slows everything down.
That seems a bit excessive and heavy handed.
But honestly i never knew just how serious some of you guys were about rimfire rifles and matches until i started reading more about it here on SH.
Some real no bullshit masterpiece rifles ive seen around lately and not just the new stuff.
But honestly i never knew just how serious some of you guys were about rimfire rifles and matches until i started reading more about it here on SH.
Some real no bullshit masterpiece rifles ive seen around lately and not just the new stuff.
What’s next , one day matches can’t be under $60 
What’s next , one day matches can’t be under $60
If you are lucky. LOL
They should think about this, how many people that can afford $180 fee for a two day match are willing to pay $180 for it? Not me, and I'll spend more on an impulse for something I don't need.
- Nov 3, 2010
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Still people will line up in droves to do it. What kind of monopoly does one man/company have over this? Why do people feel compelled to bend to the will and way? Is there some kind of patent or infringement clause that says it can’t be done by someone else?
These are serious questions, help a retard understand
These are serious questions, help a retard understand
I see the supply/demand relationship for centerfire being alot different than for rimfire. The supply for centerfire matches, which require alot of land and financial investment, is small compared to rimfire matches and there is enough demand to charge the $300+ for 2 day matches and $80 for single day club matches.
The supply for rimfire matches is/or will become greater than centerfire in most regions, because it only takes a 100-200 yard range. I think most local private non for profit clubs will just choose not to be 22 PRS affiliated if it requires charging this much. The clubs that try to charge high prices for 22 matches, will just loose business to the club down the road that does not.
The supply for rimfire matches is/or will become greater than centerfire in most regions, because it only takes a 100-200 yard range. I think most local private non for profit clubs will just choose not to be 22 PRS affiliated if it requires charging this much. The clubs that try to charge high prices for 22 matches, will just loose business to the club down the road that does not.
Don’t get me wrong I’m a PRS/PRS22 member but the things they are coming up with won’t grow the sport or the PRS. Hell look how close they came to making it were a PRS22 MD couldn’t shoot their own match. It wouldn’t bother me one bit if the 6-7 places I can shoot matches at all went outlaw.
I received that email too. A few comments from my perspective, being in the southeast. Some pertain to comments made above.
In the southeast, PRS rules. I believe it’s for two reasons. One, it’s the predominant sanctioning organization in this region. Two, those that already compete in centerfire PRS can use a mild upgrade to compete for points in the PRS22 series.
I started running .22 matches before there were any other places offering them. I knew a few guys in other areas of Florida that planned on starting matches and discussed formats and cooperation with them. They all felt that NRL22 was the way to go. Fast forward almost a year and I notice that a number of the guys were no longer attending. Last year, attendance drifted lower, so I started asking questions and polling guys for input.
Long story short, other local clubs in parts of Florida decided to go PRS22 and many guys didn’t want to bother shooting a match if they couldn’t get series points. Fact. After much consideration, I changed my format and sanctioning to PRS22 and just two matches in have doubled attendance.
Lesson? Talk about outlaw matches all you want, but if nobody is coming, what’s the point?
In the southeast, PRS rules. I believe it’s for two reasons. One, it’s the predominant sanctioning organization in this region. Two, those that already compete in centerfire PRS can use a mild upgrade to compete for points in the PRS22 series.
I started running .22 matches before there were any other places offering them. I knew a few guys in other areas of Florida that planned on starting matches and discussed formats and cooperation with them. They all felt that NRL22 was the way to go. Fast forward almost a year and I notice that a number of the guys were no longer attending. Last year, attendance drifted lower, so I started asking questions and polling guys for input.
Long story short, other local clubs in parts of Florida decided to go PRS22 and many guys didn’t want to bother shooting a match if they couldn’t get series points. Fact. After much consideration, I changed my format and sanctioning to PRS22 and just two matches in have doubled attendance.
Lesson? Talk about outlaw matches all you want, but if nobody is coming, what’s the point?
Further comments. Cost and availability of range space to run matches is generally much higher here than in states with more available land and lower population densities. That means that 60% of my range fee goes to the club range.
Here, it is expected that we provide water and snacks at minimum. I do. It is not a stop the match event and you take what you want/need and get in with your stages.
Thirdly, those of you expected the PRS to suicide itself are likely to be disappointed. I have never been a cheerleader for the organization and only moved there as an MD so that our local guys could have matches to shoot. It is nearly a zero sum thing for me to run matches here, but I enjoy being able to provide a venue for those that want to shoot them and especially for the juniors I get to see improve and move up.
In this region, PRS is really the only place providing the style and type of format (read series) that these shooters want. It may be different on your part of the country. In our area running outlaw meant that I ran matches on my money with negative return.
Those that are real competitive want recognition via trophies and awards. I don’t get that, but it’s reality, so I provide it.
Here, it is expected that we provide water and snacks at minimum. I do. It is not a stop the match event and you take what you want/need and get in with your stages.
Thirdly, those of you expected the PRS to suicide itself are likely to be disappointed. I have never been a cheerleader for the organization and only moved there as an MD so that our local guys could have matches to shoot. It is nearly a zero sum thing for me to run matches here, but I enjoy being able to provide a venue for those that want to shoot them and especially for the juniors I get to see improve and move up.
In this region, PRS is really the only place providing the style and type of format (read series) that these shooters want. It may be different on your part of the country. In our area running outlaw meant that I ran matches on my money with negative return.
Those that are real competitive want recognition via trophies and awards. I don’t get that, but it’s reality, so I provide it.
Everyone complaung about cost probably wasnt going to go anyway. Im signed up and its sold out so it seems like a working model so far. Ive also heard of at least one other venue during it. Did anyone read the payouts for June's. Theres a chance to win some decent cash
$180 is still about $100 cheaper than the rimfire finales have been. Shot an outlaw match last weekend with over 100 competitors that was $100 entry fee. Most of the NRL22X matches at least around here are creeping up towards $100 for a one day match.
I’d rather them keep rimfire events to one day except the finales just to cut down on lodging costs and time away from home. I enjoy rimfire matches but if their goal is to start 2 day matches for scoring similar to the centerfire series the cost difference between the two is almost a wash.
I’d rather them keep rimfire events to one day except the finales just to cut down on lodging costs and time away from home. I enjoy rimfire matches but if their goal is to start 2 day matches for scoring similar to the centerfire series the cost difference between the two is almost a wash.
Last year the MARS finale was $125 for a two day match and included food a prize table.
And that is why they will keep raising prices so people can compare dick size and think they are tougher if they pay more for the same thing that was half the price a year before. LOL Yeah lets make them $300 for the weekend and it will be better and you will show your dedication even more right? LOL
I am glad I wrote off the PRS portion of my rimfire matches.
Outlaw matches are a lot more fun anyway.
Outlaw matches are a lot more fun anyway.
And this is why we can’t have nice things, people get greedy and ruin everything.
One of the major reasons I stopped shooting centerfire matches was the match fees started getting a little out of hand for local regional stuff. Now I understand there is a good amount of overhead for some of these places, but I remember not that long ago the match fees included lunch (pizza or something similar) and weren’t more then $40 or so
One of the major reasons I stopped shooting centerfire matches was the match fees started getting a little out of hand for local regional stuff. Now I understand there is a good amount of overhead for some of these places, but I remember not that long ago the match fees included lunch (pizza or something similar) and weren’t more then $40 or so
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The match the OP is referring to, I believe they have their cap of 100 shooters and 5 on backup. They talked about increasing limit to 110 if they get 5 more. If this is the same match ... It was the same directors I saw talking about a match coming up... I'm guessing it is
No that was not talking about a specific match but the addition of two day matches and pricing going forward.
Matches are fun. I will shoot PRS, NRL, MARS, Outlaw whatever but when a major governing body starts raising prices and making it policy for the sake of it then time to call BS.
I agree and was not defending that in any way. Not sure why that is exactly.
I cannot get use of our range for 2-3 days in a row, in addition to not caring to be a regional venue, so did not respond.
I've only been to two MARS matches, both were good. Both were single day events, each cost $35 (IIRC?). I can understand range fees needing to take care of revenue for the day of and afternoon/evening prior for set up, after action clean up. I'm there to have a good time, don't care about points or prize money. I'm sure some "hot shots" can chime in, "you just suck, that's why you don't care...." What ever. Some of us just want to have fun and learn/grow our potential.
Come to CF (central Florida) and shoot one of my matches. That’s what I’m all about.
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I shot MARS last year a little bit but for some reason it’s pretty much none existent in the New England region this season. I’m not sure if people got tired of the “Tony show”, a lack of interest or the fact that powers that be essentially said its with our way or the highway causing MD’s to pick allegiance with PRS since it’s got the following.
It was the PRS telling MDs. MARS is now pulling scores from any match of 8 stages or more and 10 shooters or more if you are a MARS member.
That said this is not a MARS vs PRS post. It’s about MDs being told what to charge which is BS.
That would explain a thing or two around here and now I wish I was a member again but nevertheless you’re correct it’s not a VS post.
MD’s should be able to set their own pricing requirements based upon their needed overhead to successfully run a match. Now that the powers that be are “suggesting” the matches cost X amount instead of allowing MD’s to set the price is definitely getting towards the edge of ridiculous.
This right here. I don’t care if a MD charges $200 for a 2 day match, that’s his prerogative but them telling them they have to charge a certain amount. May 20th is the Ralston Ranch Shootout here in Oklahoma. Last year they didn’t have it but the year before it paid out $1000,$750,$500,$250,$100 plus a pretty big prize table with random draw. This year it’s $1000,$750,$500,$250,$100 plus $250 for stage winners(12 stages) and prize table by random draw. $100 entry fee and I believe 90 shooters is the cut off. How many of those 2 day matches that have to be $180 will payout this good.
Yes, or at least they get $$ per shooter
PRS is paid $3/shooter per match by MD, regardless if that shooter is a PRS member or not. It is not tied in any way to the entry fee of the match.
I should not have abbreviated Central Florida, since I guess you thought I meant centerfire.
Anyway, it’s an open invite. I run small PRS22 matches here about six times per year.
90 Shooters at $100/each = $9,000.
Prizes = 5,600
That's $4,400 for the range and sanctioning body. Prize table is stuff "donated" by sponsors of the match.
Is my math off, or am I out of line with this? That seems like an ok deal to me.
I did think Center Fire by default.I should not have abbreviated Central Florida, since I guess you thought I meant centerfire.
Anyway, it’s an open invite. I run small PRS22 matches here about six times per year.
*Edit add: I'm in north eastern (kind of) Maryland. Most of the matches I go to (rimfire challenge, MARS, small bore silhouette) are in Pennsiltucky.
Math lines up and that a great deal in my eyes. Even for the shooters that aren’t going to get a payout it’s a great deal, you get to have an awesome time with friends and there is a chance you walk away with something great off the prize table.
I bet after MD figures in cost of trophies and the meals they’ll be lucky to clear $1000.
I doubt that. Trophies don't cost that much, I think a lot of those are donated too. Food...let's be realistic, sandwiches, pizza, granola bars, sodas, water don't cost $35/person.
Another reason to dump food at matches. People can bring their own snacks for the day. Water should be the only thing out at matches especially in the summer months.
The MD for the local stuff by me is at our venue two days before the match to setup, write the COF for both CF/RF since it’s double header and anything else that needs to be done for a $30 match fee.
I know an other MD who’s sorta local that’s doing a “high stakes” match with $100 fee limited to 20 shooter with a payout 1st($500) through 5th($100), he’ll get a few bucks in his pocket if he’s lucky.
I know an other MD who’s sorta local that’s doing a “high stakes” match with $100 fee limited to 20 shooter with a payout 1st($500) through 5th($100), he’ll get a few bucks in his pocket if he’s lucky.
Who buys the targets, stands, barricades, shot lights, scoring tablets, target paint, zero targets? I know that I do. Cost per person to use PractiScore ore and it’s required payment processor. If I count all those costs, I’m making about -$2/person, not counting my time. That’s because my matches are small and I don’t charge $100. Trophies are a larger part of my cost than you might think. I’m not connected and get exactly zero things donated or given.
Admittedly, that’s not true of all matches and venues. I’m sure that some MDs do make some money, but it is never as much as the average person seems to think.
Targets and stands aren't a single use item. I shoot a lot of matches, never been in one that paid money, nor one that handed out trophies. I completely understand there are more expenses for the kind of matches you run, I'm not arguing that. Trying to justify $180/person for a two day match is where this thread began.
This is off topic for the thread, but going to drop it in anyway.
How is it that Rimfire challenge matches keep going when they only charge $20/person? They still have to have targets, stands, paint...
How is it that Rimfire challenge matches keep going when they only charge $20/person? They still have to have targets, stands, paint...
I don’t think a league should decide the price of an event it should be up to the MD and range just like insurance companies shouldn’t dictate what a Dr can do for a patient.
I enjoy shooting rimfire matches all over the SE with like minded shooters and great MDs but it’s a hobby to me. I’m willing to pay $30-$40 for regular season match , $85-$100 match with prize table and side stages , $100-$125 regional match with T’s and prize table , $200-$300 for nationals match with T’s and prize table and side stages. I’m really not interested in 2 day matches because of lodging and time away from family. If prices go up more than they are I’ll be forced to shoot more local and less matches outta state.
I even saw BWPRC offered a NRLX22 match this yr they had free entry to juniors that was awesome to see ! This is the future of our sport and if we don’t keep it cost effective for family fun we will lose out on a lot of participation in the future.
I enjoy shooting rimfire matches all over the SE with like minded shooters and great MDs but it’s a hobby to me. I’m willing to pay $30-$40 for regular season match , $85-$100 match with prize table and side stages , $100-$125 regional match with T’s and prize table , $200-$300 for nationals match with T’s and prize table and side stages. I’m really not interested in 2 day matches because of lodging and time away from family. If prices go up more than they are I’ll be forced to shoot more local and less matches outta state.
I even saw BWPRC offered a NRLX22 match this yr they had free entry to juniors that was awesome to see ! This is the future of our sport and if we don’t keep it cost effective for family fun we will lose out on a lot of participation in the future.
Land use, insurance, food, targets, paying/comping ROs, any swag given away,ect. There is ALOT involved in doing a 2 day match. Most people have no fucking idea how much work and coordination is involved.
If you aren't shooting matches that hand out trophies you aren't really shooting matches worth a shit. This is a different level of competition.
Ya thats it. Knowing how much work goes into setting up a 2 day match justifies the prices to me. Theyve been working at mkm for a month now setting up for vengeance. Renting heavy machines to make better burms, miving steel, cleaning up. Make these matches 100$ and see how fast they disappear. Rimfire is worse 40 people times 25$ is not enough to keep mds motivated especially now that everyone cried about them shooting their own matches.
