Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it

[kraigWY]

During the first part of the 1900s we kind of neglected our southern border after the Indian wars.
This was in the height of the Mexican Civil war that killed over 1 million Mexicans and was spilling over into the Border States.

Along comes a revolutionary or bandit, José Doroteo Arango Arámbula or better known as Pancho Villa.
Villa, assuming our weakness, and misjudging our will decided to raid the US town of Columbus NM. The reason is unknown, some say to rob the bank, some say revenge on a gun runner who he thought betrayed him. Regardless he attacked the town.

Where Villa failed is his intelligence neglected to tell him that a young (the LT) Hatcher was traveling the southwest conducting machine gun schools and had several RA and NG Units at the nearby camp attending one of these schools, plus an armed and irate citizenship. Villa didn’t fare well.
President Wilson sends BG Pershing on an expedition to capture or kill José Doroteo Arango Arámbula. Pershing didn’t get Villa, but did kill several of his generals and troops, basically destroying Villa as a viable force in the Mexican revolution.

Now we come to a similar situation, basically a war on our southern border. Soon the new bandits will be under the impression that we don’t have the will to fight.

I’m afraid they may be right this time.
Instead of preparing for the evitable, we are calling for high cap magazine bans, limiting the purchase of certain rifles that give citizens a means of fighting back while at the same time arming the bandits who will do us harm. We fight our police at their every attempt respond to the problem. We forbid states from enacting laws to combat the invasion from the south.

We ignor our history and it will bite us in the ass.

 

[Maggot]

Re: Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it

Did you see my post on what just went down in Columbus.....How can we expect anything good tto come when our own cops and officials are selling the cartels weapons?

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Soon the new bandits will be under the impression that we don’t have the will to fight.

I’m afraid they may be right this time.
</div></div>

It's going to take people standing up to them, a LOT of people - one or two people standing up will end up headless floating in a lake.

Unfortunately your last sentence there is probably correct.

 

[SledDog]

Re: Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it

Interestingly enough, even Pershing himself considered his mission a failure. Our gov't has never done the right thing with regards to our southern border. The treaty of Guadelupe Hildalgo is probably the last good deal we got.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">even Pershing himself considered his mission a failure</div></div>

I don't know how anyone could consider that expedition a failure.

Granted, Villa wasn't caught but he was basicly put out of business.

The Side Benifits is what makes it a huge success. He used airplanes for recon, realized for the first time the ideal of Mech Infantry (major use of trucks and other vehicles instead of horses). Not to mention the lessons learned regarding logistics.

All of which prepaired Pershing and US for WWI.

Patton was on of his Jr officers that found the value of motor carriers over horses and he used them quite sucessfully, We all know how that turned out.

 

[ramrod14]

Re: Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it

kraig, actually BG Pershing spent more time fighting government mexican troops than he ever did fighting Villa. Villa would lead Perishing on a goose chase right into his enemies. Villa knew he could not win against Pershing so he avoid him. Although some of his generals didn't listen and paid the price. As for Villa being put out of business, sorry wrong. He still controlled northern mexico and still captured El Bufo in Zacatecas, Zacatecas Mexico. He just didn't bother to raid the U.S. again. He was still considered a bandit hero by the mexican people that after the revolution his own allies had him assassinated because of a second revolution was brewing.
In my personal oppinion Villa was a nobody when compared to Emilio Zapata.

 

[slowkota]

Re: Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it

Since OP mentioned Pancho Villa

 

[goober]

Re: Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it

Its almost sounds like Sons of Anarchys town

 

[clmayfield]

Re: Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it

I thought the title was a reference to this article.

 

[RoosterShooter]

Re: Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it

I have to agree with the OP. However, I hardly believe that anyone will be able to organize ANY sized group of individuals in today's modern society. All I see are, literally, hundreds of people around every corner who have been dumbed by technology, and have lost their will to stand up for ANYTHING.

The days of the sheep dogs are fading fast. Fox News, NBC, and CNN have bought into the propaganda business in a big way, just to stay afloat.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it

The difference between then and now is that in those days, our government considered itself subordinate to the citizenry, and welcomed its participation.

Now, it sees the positions reversed, and jealously reserves the right to do anything about anything exclusively to itself. Citizens need not assist, and their participation is actually quite conclusively discouraged, even to the point of pre-empting their means and options.

Somehow, over time; the tail has come to believe it has the sole right and obligation to wag the dog.

This is a fallacy.

Some official breed standards involve docking tails and sometimes ears too. This is actually a good practice, as it helps prevent self inflicted injury to the tail, or even leading to the sort of canine frustration that prompts the dog to attack its own tail.

I think there's another breed or two that might need to have this standard applied. This tail needs to relearn its rightful place, or have that knowledge imposed upon it; for its own good, and for the overall good of the attached dog.

Greg

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it

I agree with you Greg. Good job with the subtle inference and analogy.

Wonder who that's going to fly by?

 

[notquiteright]

Re: Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it

It helps to recall the correct history not look back and attempt to force the past to fit our current situation.

First the reason's for General Villa's 'invasion' are well known. Americans had been involved in the bloody mexican civil war for years. Villa had a gringo detachment in his army of the north.

American merchants made a tidy sum selling to all sides.

General Villa had no grudge against the US, he was a popular cult figure prior to his border raids. Movies were made about him.

But when President Wilson formally recognized a rival as Presidente, Villa felt betrayed. When Yankee merchants accepted advance payments for goods but prior to delivery demanded gold payment Villa was furious.

The raid resulted in the town being looted and burned, many horses and arms taken and even a few machine guns carried off.

General Pershing might have summed his punitive raid best- "outwitted and outbluffed at every turn, when the true history is written, it will not be a very inspiring chapter for schoolchildren, or even adults to contemplate." He goes on to describe the withdrawl, "like a whipped cur with it's tail between it's legs"

Part of that feeling is after the battle of Carrizal many US Cav soldiers were catured from the 7th and 10th Cav, the later had to be withdrawn from further service.

Nor did the US raid stop Mexican border raids.

NOW let us fast forward to today.

Mexico is mired in a bloody DRUG war that has nothing to do with internal revolution and everything to do with an insane drug demand from the gringos de la Norte. (thats yankees)

The current border incusions are to supply the cocaine and ice gringos are quite willing to rob and murder to get. Not to raid US ranches for cattle.

What didn't work in the early 1900's isn't going to fare any better today. The border can be made more bloody, the price of non prescription abused drugs more expensive. However the damage to our nation isn't an eroding border but a decaying heartland.

Hillbilly heroin and 'tabbing' has replaced cocaine at the top of the abused pile.

A call to arms to secure the border has great appeal.

However it is doomed to failure as the drug trade is way too profitable to way too many and has protection from the mexican border to the city street corner.

What is biting us in the ass isn't a violent Mexico but a drug addicted US with a dismal war on drugs doing nothing more than creating a strong and vicious domestic drug gang culture-

Not unlike the last gang culture a prohibition on the most popular drug US Citizens demanded.

Yes we are doomed if we don't learn from history.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it

Here is an excellent piece about the Mexican Revolution and our envolvemnet, 1910-1917.

http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/20thcentury/articles/mexicanrevolution.aspx