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Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

flagg888

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 26, 2008
62
0
53
East Northport, NY
I decided that its past due for a chronograph. I've been reloading for about a year now, and have gotten some good results so far.
The problem, as you all know, is now that I know I can get good loads, are they doing what I want sped wise.
So, before I buy a chrono I figured there is no better focus group than the members here.
So, which ones do you guys like/dont like, and why.
Thanks in advance.

 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

Look at the better end models of Pact and CED. There are others to be sure. But these brands have a good track record. Some companies offer several different models. Stay with either mid range or upper range models.

My Pact is an old model. I'll be looking to replace it in the near future. I'll be looking at a model that I can download to my PC and keep each session backed up.
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

Victor, shoot me a PM if you want to get rid of that chrony when you get a new one.
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

It's going to be a while yet. I have to get financially more on my feet again. But we can discuss it if you wish.
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

I got the Pact Pro XP for Christmas. I have yet to use it though. Looks like a decent unit.
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

I got the CED M2 for Christmas. Only used it once, it was an overcast day and I was using the standard skyscreens. It worked as advertised and I have no complaints. It has the computor download and software, haven't used that yet. Waiting for weather and time to check some loads.
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

Replaced my PACT with a CED w/IR. No regrets.
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

One more +1 on CED M2. The only negative is that I haven't been able to get the software to work with Vista or Windows 7 64 bit yet, with 32 but you should be fine.
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

My partner and I each own a Chrony. His is wiped out by a gas check from a cast pistol load, and mine gives inconsistent and often non-credible numbers. The best thing I can say about them is that at least it wasn't an especially expensive lesson.

Basically, I have stopped chronying loads. The most valuable data I'd be looking for from one of them is a ballpark velocity number from which to plot drops at distances, but that info can also be gotten by simply plotting drops at known shorter distances and plugging them into the Pejsa spreadsheets I use to calculate those drops anyaway.

As for actual velocities and spreads, it is my opinion that even the best chronos lie to some extent.

Simply reviewing the user guides will pretty much always uncover the simple caveat that velocity displays could be off by as much as +/- 1%. That's 25FPS above or below a displayed 2500fps. So a displayed spread of 25fps could be off by as much as 25fps higher or lower than the numbers you're grasping so firmly. So, if the machine's own intrinsic E/S is 50fps, what it that telling you about it reporting E/S and S/D numbers of, say 25fps?

I don't call that degree of reliability, well, reliable.

Greg
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CGM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One more +1 on CED M2. The only negative is that I haven't been able to get the software to work with Vista or Windows 7 64 bit yet, with 32 but you should be fine. </div></div>

Update,re-installed the drivers and the software works with 64 bit Vista and Windows 7. I am not sure why the drivers didn't install properly the first time, maybe my anti-virus program kicked in.
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

Keep your eyes and ears open for an Oehler 35P. They arent made anymore and can get pricey, expect $500 or so. Cadillac of Chronys with adjustable screen spacing capability. The wider the spacing the more accurate the reading. Fella over on 6BR.com sells a really nice fabricated aluminum rail for it too.

Rob
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

Oehlers are being bought in the $650 range consistantly.

 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

Then they have appreciated even more since I last priced them. Glad I got mine while they were still in manufacture. Have bought a couple for friends in the past year or so and had been able to get them around $500.
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

Thanks for the responses, guys.

So it seems to me that the CED and PACT units in the high end would be the ones to look at.

 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

I have been doing a lot of reading around on reports from users, and I think im going to go with the CED. The pact units, even the high end one, had some neg reviews on some other sights. after a lot of searching i have only found a few neg reveiws about the ced, most every one likes the M2.

CJG
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

Actually none of them is really bad, it's just that none is really perfect. The best was the Oehler 35 p which is no longer manufactured, and thus everything is equally second best.
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

I was wondering which chrono was a good one and it seems the M2 you can't go wrong with. Glad I found this.
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

+1 on Honas' comments........... also barrel harmonics play a role in accuracy and the best chrono can't read the harmonics. Believe the results on the target.
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

Get a CED M2 is what I spent my hard earned cash on and I am pleased. One of the best first purchases I have had in this game.
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

My Oehler 35P is ten years old. Practically indispensable for load development, in my opinion.

Seems like I paid around $300 for it then? Got it from Brownells. Not long ago I was made aware that they would not be making them any more and the reason is because Epson no longer makes the printer so they had to quit offering that model. The next step up is really pricey, the ballistic lab.

But, on the other hand, I think Oehler came up with a solution and I "think" they can be had, again? If so, they are certainly worth looking into because they really are the best.

Company service is exceptional. I sent mine in one time and they explained that the Panasonic 9V battery someone gave me at the range was not adequate to drive the printer, so it was my fault, but it came back with a Duracell installed and also a spare in the battery compartment. I felt like an idiot because I should have known better, it's right there in the manual.

If my info is bogus, next best is to find a used 35P, they are worth it. BB
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

I just checked it out, have not looked at their website for quite a while and the rumors are true. They sell a 35P for $575 and by the time you get the 4' rail and the tripod stands which are another $60, it's pricey, but for whatever reason they are not offering the ballistic lab any longer so this is the only game in town, at least as far as I'm concerned. Still, a lot of money, but looking at the site, if you or some total stranger at the range wants to shoot through your screens and blows them up, (you, Mr nice guy) aren't out a whole machine. All the replacement parts seen very reasonable. BB
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

What makes the 35P so good? How is the increased "goodness" measured/determined?

I'm not disagreeing, I just don't understand how a typical schmoe like myself would ever know one chrono was better than another.

I *do* know that none of the chronos out there are tested/measured in a "real" way. You'd hope they'd somehow have a way to launch a projectile at a KNOWN 1000fps, 2000fps and 3000fps through a chrono, and see if the chrono agrees. However, thats not how they test them. They use electronics to excite the sensors, and see how well the sensors react. Theoretically, this tests the chrono.

Having sensors farther apart is an accuracy advantage, and I believe the 35P comes with the largest span of any other chrono, but it would be an easy affair to increase the length of other chronos. For example, if you have a CED, you could get a 4' or even 6' beam to mount the sensors on, and simply multiply your indicated velocity by either 2 or 3.

Overall, I hate how finicky my CED is to differing lighting conditions. The light has to be *just right* or it gives errors. I'm almost done building an Infrared Lighting system for it, that is supposed to just WORK, regardless of shot placement through the chrono, and regardless of lighting. Hoping to take it for a test drive this weekend.
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

The Oehler unit is indeed again available for $5XX.

As to how accurate and reliabel it is, many years ago I did a project for the U.S. Olympic air rifle / air pistol team, proving that their stalling out on scores at the time was due to pellet weight and diameter variations.

The Oehler was the only game in town that could not only be acurate enough, but could also be configured so that the "proof" channel became instead a way of getting TWO velocities at two different points severla feet apart. That allwoed calculation of an accurate Cd. As for sensitivity, we got reliable results in a community college gymnasium, at night, under gymnasium lighting.

If I get another chronograph anytime, it's going to be the Oehler for sure.

Jim G
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

You have been reloading for a year, so you know how much money it costs to ramp up the home reloading hobby. Excellent dies and a solid press are important things to spend money on. Then you've got the case prep tools, and calipers, scales, etc.

What I'm getting at here is that it's more important to have the best reloading tools, and follow best reloading practices than it is to have the best (read:expensive) chronograph.

A chronograph is an important tool, but you don't need to get fancy here. That's why I bought and recommend the Chrony series of Chronographs.

Tough to beat it for the price. Great little unit that does the job well. I took my new chrony to the range, had it set up in a few minutes, & started shooting. Mine has chronographed hundreds and hundreds of rounds reliably.

In conclusion, buy an adequate chronograph, and save the money for all the other things that make a real difference getting the bullet to where you want it.

 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

You guys know someone revived a two and a half year old thread, right?

For my money I'd get a Pro Chrono Digital and USB Interface if I had to replace my Pro Chrono Plus.
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

Where is the old topic, or what was the conclusions?

The Oehler USED to come with a two foot rail. I tried to make my own four footer and I can measure pretty good, but it didn't work so I bought the 4 ft. rail for what seemed to be more money than it was worth. (the tripods were extra, I am sure of that, maybe not now?) But, the factory rail worked, no grief, so money well spent. If it now comes with the light tripods and a four foot rail, great. If not, you should buy these things because the distance is the key to accuracy and if you look at the others? All I have seen are closer together, but maybe I have not seen them all?

The tripods are for studio lighting application, they just work for this application, so when the screens are four feet apart you can't use a camera tripod very easily. Everybody I have ever seen at the range use the 4 ft. spacing so it must be a pretty good compromise?

Another thing. the Oehler has dip switches inside where you can set it up for a bunch of different distances as long as it's devisable by 2. Like, I'm guessing, 16 feet between screens would be a whole lot more accurate than 2 feet. The problem is the proof channel. Has to be dead nuts, exact center. I think?

I'm a happy customer. Just what I need for evaluating my handloads and I don't even use the software because it doesn't support Mac. BB
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As for actual velocities and spreads, it is my opinion that even the best chronos lie to some extent.
</div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fx77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Actually none of them is really bad, it's just that none is really perfect.
</div></div>

This, and that......

All it takes is a shift in light condition, beit the same day or next week, to cause what's usually interpretated as "error", in even the best of 'em.
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where is the old topic, or what was the conclusions?

The Oehler USED to come with a two foot rail. I tried to make my own four footer and I can measure pretty good, but it didn't work so I bought the 4 ft. rail for what seemed to be more money than it was worth. (the tripods were extra, I am sure of that, maybe not now?) But, the factory rail worked, no grief, so money well spent. If it now comes with the light tripods and a four foot rail, great. If not, you should buy these things because the distance is the key to accuracy and if you look at the others? All I have seen are closer together, but maybe I have not seen them all?

The tripods are for studio lighting application, they just work for this application, so when the screens are four feet apart you can't use a camera tripod very easily. Everybody I have ever seen at the range use the 4 ft. spacing so it must be a pretty good compromise?

Another thing. the Oehler has dip switches inside where you can set it up for a bunch of different distances as long as it's devisable by 2. Like, I'm guessing, 16 feet between screens would be a whole lot more accurate than 2 feet. The problem is the proof channel. Has to be dead nuts, exact center. I think?

I'm a happy customer. Just what I need for evaluating my handloads and I don't even use the software because it doesn't support Mac. BB

</div></div>

Go up about 11 posts from yours. PACT and CED were recommended. From what I've heard PACT chronographs make good paper weights.
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

You know how you put things off, and how certain topics jiggle your memory? Well, I happened to remember, because of this topic, that the last time I was at the range, my 35P printer was occasionally overprinting. It had nothing to do with the readout or the accuracy, just the printer keeping up with the data.

So, about three hours ago, I wrote Oehler, explained the problem, (two lines would occasionally overprint, making them hard to read, especially at home afterwards, evaluating.

I got a reply an hour ago and they offered to replace the whole mechanism and ship it back for free if I sent them a check for $50 along with the printer including a short explanation.

Some might say, faulty equipment but to me it says: CUSTOMER SERVICE. Fifty bucks to replace 10 year old, warn out mechanical parts seems like a fair price, to me?

About the ten years old...... just for the heck of it. That time I sent it in when there was nothing wrong, and scored two new batteries? I just noticed the memo stuck in the pages of the extra manual they sent with the printer, and (guess what?) that happened eleven years ago. How time flies! Then, just for (again) the heck of it, I looked up the receipt from Brownells, for the chrono/May, 1996, so my machine is sixteen years old.

I will send the printer in when I get back from my Texas hunt next week, too much to do right now, I be packin'. BB
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

Anyone seriously considering, or defending, the Chrony might find this true, first-hand story interesting.

Today, I was at the range testing my first 338 Lapua hand loads. I have no chronograph, so was just shooting ladder test groups and looking at the group sizes and vertical dispersion.

A new friend offered to chronograph one of my loads for me. He had brought a brand new Chrony to the range today.

Pay attention to this next part: The load is:
Ptimer: Federal Large Rifle Mangnum
Case: Lapua
Bullet: Sierra 300g Matchking
Powder: 87g of Retumbo

Just prior to the chronograph test, I had fired a 4 shot group, at 250 YARDS, that was only 3/4 " vertically by around 2" horizontally (gusty wind, 45 degrees, I was wearing GLOVES it was so darn cold!). So, we are talking 0.3 MOA vertical by 0.8 MOA horizontal.

The Chrony delivered the following results:
1st shot: 3253 fps
2nd shot: 3328
3rd shot: 3360
4th shot: 3409
5th shot: 3404

Average: 3351
Extreme spread: 156.7
Std Deviation: 64

Now ask yourself:

1. Can 87 grains of Retumbo actually push a 300g .338 caliber Matchking at 3351 fps? Could ANY 300g 338 Lapua load deliver 3351 fps without blowing up the case and rifle both? The loading books all suggest this load should deliver somewhere in the 2400 to 2500 fps range.

2. Is a group with 0.3 vertical MOA compatible with SD = 64 and extreme spread of 156.7?

My new friend was as "skeptical" as I was, and tested a 308 hand load, in his rifle, that he KNOWS does about 2550 out of the barrel. The Chrony said it did 3410.

So, did I learn anything of value about my load by using the Chrony? Did I learn anything of value about the CHRONY?

Jim G
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunsnjeeps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You guys know someone revived a two and a half year old thread, right?

<span style="font-weight: bold">For my money I'd get a Pro Chrono Digital and USB Interface if I had to replace my Pro Chrono Plus.</span> </div></div>

The Pro Chrono Digital is easily the best performing of the sub-$300 units.

Always gets a reading and the distance between the sensors stays constant unlike the folding Shooting Chronys which can give very high readings if the unit isn't folded precisely flat. That's if the SC gets a reading at all.

Ken Oehler has confirmed that the crystal clock used in chronographs is both extremely accurate and simple to make. The hard part about making chronographs work is in designing the sensors. That's where the money and the research time is spent.

I've had the opportunity to test an Oehler 35, a SC Beta, and a Pro Chrono Digital (PCD) one day at the range. We had the range to ourselves so we started shooting over the chronos. We lined them up one behind the other so one bullet would trip all three units. We switched the order around with each unit in each position.
The result was that all three of the units gave accurate measurements. Meaning the velocities were consistent among the three. I also found that while the SC Beta gave accurate readings it missed 50% or more of the shots. The Oehler missed none and neither did the PCD!
I was also very encouraged by the fact that the unit in the front recorded a higher velocity than the unit in the back. That told me to my satisfaction that the numbers I get from my PCD are accurate and believable.

If I had the coin I'd get the Oehler 35 or better yet the Oehler 43 PBL. They are the benchmark. Since I'm not getting an Oehler I decided that the PCD is the best unit out there for anywhere near the money.
The PCD is so inexpensive (<$100) that I'm thinking of getting another one to mount behind the first as a kind of a Oehler Proof Channel.
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

There is a relatively new chronograph on the market now being sold by the good folks at NECO.

The PVM-21.

At $750 it is even more expensive than the Oehler but it seems like a different type of unit.

I'd like to hear if anyone has tried the PVM-21 yet.
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

I just got a ProChrono Digital while they were on sale at Midway. I got it home and put it on a Targus tripod just to look at it and see how it all went together. I figured if it says it will pick up 20-7000FPS, i'd give it a try with something. Didn't break it, but I can swing a bullet puller at 60 FPS horizontally.

Can't wait to get a nice day to take it to the range.
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

The PCD is pretty light so if there is any appreciable wind you'll want to weigh your tripod down some.
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

While an Oelher is the standard to be measured against my CED M2 done well for me. I added the IR screens so that I can test whenever I have time despite lighting conditions, which is very valuable to me.
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

I have no idea how many of these units have a printer, but I guess some do and Oehler says that they (others) use some type of heat sensitive printing, you know the kind that fades to where you can't read it at all after some time and exposure to sunlight? The Oehler uses real ink on plain paper rolls that you can buy at any stationary store. And, from what I can tell, it lasts (for all practical purposes) forever. BB
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Senna11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a relatively new chronograph on the market now being sold by the good folks at NECO.

The PVM-21.

At $750 it is even more expensive than the Oehler but it seems like a different type of unit.

I'd like to hear if anyone has tried the PVM-21 yet. </div></div>


Myself and quite a few friends of mine have PVM-21's. Personally I like it very much. It is by far the most consistent unit I have used. I have yet to have any numbers come out of it that I was suspect of. Just like most chronograph's it has a 1%+/- tolerance, but with that being said it sure does seem to put out very accurate numbers and never misses a beat.

It gives me that piece of mind that no other Chronograph has been able to do and it doesnt matter if you are using it in the middle of the day or no light at all it stays consistent.

It is pretty spendy ,but I am glad I bought it.




Scott
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

It's just my opinion, and my specific circumstances, but for me, the Pro Chrono Digital might not be a good solution, despite its small, handy size and low price. here's why:

This unit consists of one small piece, about 4" x 4" x 16" long, that mounts on a bench or camera tripod, and the diffuser screens simply "plug" into holes in the unit. Very nice. $120 plsu shippnig so far.

But, the unit does NOT include a printer. That's optional, costs $150, and is a thermal type printer, so sues VERY expensive thermal paper, that also fades very quickly. Not so good.

The unit also does not include a remote control. That's an extra $90. That's really an essential at virtually any public range, as you are not allowed to step across the firing line each time you want to end a string, review data, remove an indivudal shot, etc.

So, now we are at $360 and we still have a thermal printer.

But, here's the factor that, I think, eliminates it for me as a solution: The rnage I shoot at calls a "cease fire" only about once every 90 to 120 minutes. At each such "cease fire", a rnage employee goes out on the 50, 100, 250, 500, and 1000 yard ranges on a utility vehicle and changes, repairs, resets all the targets. So, an individual shooter's access to a chronograph without remote would be limited to once every 90 to 120 minutes. That makes the unit virtually unsuable without the remote, as the box needs to be at least 15 feet from the firing line to prevent muzzle blast from creating problems, and that's too far to see the display from. There is also no way to stop and review one string and start another, from the firing line, without that remote.

Finally, this unit has the same problem as the Chrony: If your setup is off, you can shoot the unit itself and destroy it. This problem applies even WITH the remote.

The Oehler unit puts ONLY the skyscreens in danger. The unit itself is right by your side. No "remote" is needed, and you have access to all string and review funcitons all the time. The printer is built-in. And, the printer is NOT a thermal paper unit. It uses real, normal paper. For me, this is the only solution that would work at the range I shoot at.

My only gripe (beyond the obvious one - price) is that it takes literally a rifle-sized case to house everything that the Oehler comes with and needs to function. It uses a 4 foot rail versus the short setups the other chronographs have, so that it can have TWO measurements ( a "proof channel" capability) to eliminate bad readings. That also enables it to be configured to do two separate readings on one bulelt, at 2 different points, to determine Cd. It needs cables to connect the unit to the skyscreens, and it needs TWO cable sets since it uses 2 channels. A rifle-sized case is BIG, and I'm not sure I want to deal with that.

If I had a vehicle with a large trunk (I do not), and plenty of storage room at home (I do not), it would be a no-brainer for me to get the Oehler at some point when the money outlay would not be a burden. But, given my concerns about the sheer size of the unit, I'm not ready to do it. I keep hoping for a better solution, but since one has not appeared in several years, I may have to figure out how to accommodate that Oehler rifle case if I want my own chronograph.

I've seriosuly considered just paying someone else who HAS a chronogrpah to chrono my laods for me from time to time, but I suspect that finding someone who both has a chronograph AND is at the rnage right when I want to test some loads, might be less than easy.

I guess I should try to figure out how to get that Oehler package into a smaller storage footprint somehow. That probably means buying one sometime and THEN figuring how to get it into a smaller box.

Jim G
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

The PC Digital has a memory 9 strings of 99 shots each and you can read the display at 15 feet, my old PC Plus has a 99 shot memory I think.

For $50 you can get the USB adaptor and hook it to a laptop. This also has software for data collection and display on the laptop. I think you have to have the new remote for the printer unless you have the printer next to the chrono. I've never used a printer with my Pro Chrono Plus.

Granted there is something you'll have to carry with it even if it is a steno pad and pen

If you were closer I'd say come on out and give mine a try.

The old remote was just a wire and button that did what the control button does.
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JimGnitecki</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's just my opinion, and my specific circumstances, but for me, the Pro Chrono Digital might not be a good solution, despite its small, handy size and low price. here's why:

This unit consists of one small piece, about 4" x 4" x 16" long, that mounts on a bench or camera tripod, and the diffuser screens simply "plug" into holes in the unit. Very nice. $120 plsu shippnig so far.

But, the unit does NOT include a printer. That's optional, costs $150, and is a thermal type printer, so sues VERY expensive thermal paper, that also fades very quickly. Not so good.

The unit also does not include a remote control. That's an extra $90. That's really an essential at virtually any public range, as you are not allowed to step across the firing line each time you want to end a string, review data, remove an indivudal shot, etc.

So, now we are at $360 and we still have a thermal printer.

But, here's the factor that, I think, eliminates it for me as a solution: The rnage I shoot at calls a "cease fire" only about once every 90 to 120 minutes. At each such "cease fire", a rnage employee goes out on the 50, 100, 250, 500, and 1000 yard ranges on a utility vehicle and changes, repairs, resets all the targets. So, an individual shooter's access to a chronograph without remote would be limited to once every 90 to 120 minutes. That makes the unit virtually unsuable without the remote, as the box needs to be at least 15 feet from the firing line to prevent muzzle blast from creating problems, and that's too far to see the display from. There is also no way to stop and review one string and start another, from the firing line, without that remote.

Finally, this unit has the same problem as the Chrony: If your setup is off, you can shoot the unit itself and destroy it. This problem applies even WITH the remote.

The Oehler unit puts ONLY the skyscreens in danger. The unit itself is right by your side. No "remote" is needed, and you have access to all string and review funcitons all the time. The printer is built-in. And, the printer is NOT a thermal paper unit. It uses real, normal paper. For me, this is the only solution that would work at the range I shoot at.

My only gripe (beyond the obvious one - price) is that it takes literally a rifle-sized case to house everything that the Oehler comes with and needs to function. It uses a 4 foot rail versus the short setups the other chronographs have, so that it can have TWO measurements ( a "proof channel" capability) to eliminate bad readings. That also enables it to be configured to do two separate readings on one bulelt, at 2 different points, to determine Cd. It needs cables to connect the unit to the skyscreens, and it needs TWO cable sets since it uses 2 channels. A rifle-sized case is BIG, and I'm not sure I want to deal with that.

If I had a vehicle with a large trunk (I do not), and plenty of storage room at home (I do not), it would be a no-brainer for me to get the Oehler at some point when the money outlay would not be a burden. But, given my concerns about the sheer size of the unit, I'm not ready to do it. I keep hoping for a better solution, but since one has not appeared in several years, I may have to figure out how to accommodate that Oehler rifle case if I want my own chronograph.

I've seriosuly considered just paying someone else who HAS a chronogrpah to chrono my laods for me from time to time, but I suspect that finding someone who both has a chronograph AND is at the rnage right when I want to test some loads, might be less than easy.

I guess I should try to figure out how to get that Oehler package into a smaller storage footprint somehow. That probably means buying one sometime and THEN figuring how to get it into a smaller box.

Jim G </div></div>

Unfortunately I've had 2 Chrony's and the Pro chrono.
frown.gif
Total waist of money in initial investment, expended components and time trying to make heads or tales of inconsistent data, if you even get any data IMO. I wish I had bought the 35P to begin with a lomg time ago. It's worth every penny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ever since I bought a 35P the dope on my rifles correlates with the ballistic program and reality.

Mine came in a plastic rifle case. You don't have room for that? Buy one, you'll be so glad you did!
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

steve123Mine came in a plastic rifle case. You don't have room for that? [/quote said:
My wife and I moved out of a home into a 250 square foot RV a couple of years back! I already have TWO rifle cases (LMT MWSE and TRG) and a huge amount of reloading and cleaning supplies. When you live in an RV (so that after you retire you can travel anywhere you want anytime you want to, and in the meantime enjoy a TOTAL occupancy cost of about $450 per month including all utilities and wi-fi), you think differently about how you are going to use your space up. This applies especially to gear that only gets used occasionaly, and not every day.
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I need to figure out how small a package I could get that Oehler kit into if I worked at it a bit.

Jim G
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

As stated above, the Ohler is shipped in a rifle case.
2012-02-13_11-37-51_343.jpg

I had mine out yesterday and I went out and just opened the case and snapped this photo. You need the case to hold the 4' rod that the skyscreens attach to. You also have 2 adjustable stands and the printer in there.

The hastle to haul and set up the Ohler is far out weighed by the peace of mind that I get with the results. If you're going to the range to gather rifle data, you already have at least one case so, what's the big deal with 2?
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goin'Hot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As stated above, the Ohler is shipped in a rifle case.
2012-02-13_11-37-51_343.jpg

I had mine out yesterday and I went out and just opened the case and snapped this photo. You need the case to hold the 4' rod that the skyscreens attach to. You also have 2 adjustable stands and the printer in there.

The hastle to haul and set up the Ohler is far out weighed by the peace of mind that I get with the results. If you're going to the range to gather rifle data, you already have at least one case so, what's the big deal with 2? </div></div>

As stated above where I posted at the same time you were, I ened to get it SMALLER yet than that case. If I packed the 4 foot rail separate from the rest of the egra, what dimensions of box would everything else fit into?

I don't remember the details of the last Oehler I had (it was around 1990 through 1999 or so), but I THINK it was far smaller in total dimensions. Is foam padding a signficiant amount of the current space consumed?

Jim G
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JimGnitecki</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I packed the 4 foot rail separate from the rest of the egra, what dimensions of box would everything else fit into?

I don't remember the details of the last Oehler I had (it was around 1990 through 1999 or so), but I THINK it was far smaller in total dimensions. Is foam padding a signficiant amount of the current space consumed?

Jim G </div></div>

The next largest items will be the stands. I'll get a length of them for you when I get home after work. I imagine they will be around 2.75 - 3' long. You could stow the 4' rod easily and maybe even in one of your other rifle bags when not in use.

I'll get back to you.
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

That rifle case that it comes in, and that's exactly what it is, it's just a cheap plastic case, but it is functional, and as a man with a house and a truck, it is not a problem, storage wise, or transport wise.

But, you could very easily take the stuff out of the rifle case. The printer is about the size of two baloney sandwiches. The rail with the skyscreens takes up as much room as a #3 wood and the cables are about the size of a loaf of bread. The difusers, I bundle them up with a bungee cord and it is possibly 3" in diameter and, (what?) 14 inches long? Same as Johnson...(I just made that up)

So you can carry all of it (except the length of ½" rigid conduit) in a grocery bag and still have room for a six pack and a bag of pretzels. Or, strap the rifle case on the roof.

The Oehler rocks, and as we have recently found out, is economical too. And, I don't work for the company. But, I am available. BB

edit: Oops! I forgot the tripods! And look how much information was added while I was typing!

edit: really, since I bought mine 16 years ago, they have not changed a thing. The difference is the whole kit, I purchased the stands separately, the gun case separately, and the 4 foot rail separately. They just cut out the optional stuff and bundled it into exactly what you need.
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goin'Hot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[I'll get back to you. </div></div>

Yes, please, if it is not too much trouble. I have found that when I really put some thought into it, it is amazing how much "stuff" can be compressed down into smaller chunks of space. Our RV was really well designed. There are cabinets EVERYWHERE, including even 6 drawers and 6 large cabinet spaces in the BATHROOM alone, but you have to get things really well organized to use the spaces effectively. Our entire RV, fully loaded, weighs just under 9000 pounds and is 26.5 feet long. Of that, only 2200 pounds is "all personal possessions". That "personal possessions" category includes all firearms, ammunition, reloading equipment and supplies, and gun cleaning and maintenace supplies. My wife correctly points out that once we get by the "essentials" (e.g. kitchen stuff, groceries, all clothing, tools for RV maintenance and towing), my "shooting stuff" consumes the lion's share of the available space and weight allowance (we have to keep the RV "towable" by a non-industrial pickup truck). So, I have to really consider hwo much space I can devote to a chronograph used soemtimes versus other things used "all the time".

Jim G
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

Now I remeber that (the RV). You do need a rent-a-chrony when you get to the range.
 
Re: Thoughts/Opinions on Chronographs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JimGnitecki</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone seriously considering, or defending, the Chrony might find this true, first-hand story interesting.

Today, I was at the range testing my first 338 Lapua hand loads. I have no chronograph, so was just shooting ladder test groups and looking at the group sizes and vertical dispersion.

A new friend offered to chronograph one of my loads for me. He had brought a brand new Chrony to the range today.

Pay attention to this next part: The load is:
Ptimer: Federal Large Rifle Mangnum
Case: Lapua
Bullet: Sierra 300g Matchking
Powder: 87g of Retumbo

Just prior to the chronograph test, I had fired a 4 shot group, at 250 YARDS, that was only 3/4 " vertically by around 2" horizontally (gusty wind, 45 degrees, I was wearing GLOVES it was so darn cold!). So, we are talking 0.3 MOA vertical by 0.8 MOA horizontal.

The Chrony delivered the following results:
1st shot: 3253 fps
2nd shot: 3328
3rd shot: 3360
4th shot: 3409
5th shot: 3404

Average: 3351
Extreme spread: 156.7
Std Deviation: 64

Now ask yourself:

1. Can 87 grains of Retumbo actually push a 300g .338 caliber Matchking at 3351 fps? Could ANY 300g 338 Lapua load deliver 3351 fps without blowing up the case and rifle both? The loading books all suggest this load should deliver somewhere in the 2400 to 2500 fps range.

2. Is a group with 0.3 vertical MOA compatible with SD = 64 and extreme spread of 156.7?

My new friend was as "skeptical" as I was, and tested a 308 hand load, in his rifle, that he KNOWS does about 2550 out of the barrel. The Chrony said it did 3410.

So, did I learn anything of value about my load by using the Chrony? Did I learn anything of value about the CHRONY?

Jim G
</div></div>

Oh for cripes sake, back off the Chrony so the muzzle blast isn't being measured. The alert reader can't be seriously considering, or defending this tale, unsupported by other evidence, purporting that the Chrony product or design is a complete failure.

No where on any gun board, will you find evidence of <span style="font-style: italic">systemic</span> failures in the Chrony line of chronographs. I concede that the manufacturer might have shipped a defective unit, IF you admit that no manufacturer is perfect. I don't know what customer service the other companies give, when I needed service on my Shooting Chrony, they were helpful. I would buy their products again.

Other brands may look better, have more features and have more prestige.
But the Chrony will work if you give it a chance. It is, after all, the Chevy of the chronograph world.