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Gunsmithing Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

308saiga

308saiga

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Apr 21, 2010
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I cut my 308 barrel down from 24" to 20", I am waiting for my 11 degree Crown tool that I purchased, to come in to do the crown.

I wanted to thread my muzzle before I crowned, the diameter at the muzzle is .630 and after 1" it goes to .647. I have read the the 5/8 X 24 die can handle these diameters, so I would not need to shave anything off of the barrel (lathe it).

I found a brake that is 5/8 X 24 RH, so do I need a 5/8 X 24 LH or RH threader to thread my barrel for this brake?

This is going on a bolt action rifle......... Thanks

All suggestions and comments are welcomed.....
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

Take it to a smith to properly thread the barrel. You may not have sufficient shoulder for a brake of 5/8x24, and I'm not going to comment on cutting new threads with a die and a rifle barrel.
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

What does the shoulder have to do with it? If the diameter of the brake is larger then the diameter of the barrel does it make a difference? Times are tough if I could not do it myself I would not be asking..... Thanks for your comment, anyone else?
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308saiga</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What does the shoulder have to do with it? If the diameter of the brake is larger then the diameter of the barrel does it make a difference? Times are tough if I could not do it myself I would not be asking..... Thanks for your comment, anyone else? </div></div>

If you have insufficient shoulder on the barrel there will be nothing for the shoulder on the brake to torque to. Makes no difference how big the brake diameter is.

I realize times are tough but there are some things that without proper tooling are best not done especially when you are pushing a high speed bullet down a barrel and out through that brake.
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

Thanks again, I forgot to add that the brake comes with a jam nut, would this make a difference?

I have the ability to to reduce the size of the barrel from a 0.63" max dia. down to 0.57" x 1" deep for 14x1LH or 9/16-24 threading with a muzzle cuter, but I can not find a brake that I like in that diameter.....
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308saiga</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What does the shoulder have to do with it? If the diameter of the brake is larger then the diameter of the barrel does it make a difference? Times are tough if I could not do it myself I would not be asking..... Thanks for your comment, anyone else? </div></div>

Welllll......seeing as how you asked.....

1) As Randy stated you need a shoulder or some means to tighten it against!!! Chewing gum might not be permanent!

2) You are planning on using a hand held threading die to cut the additional diameter??? The die is made to cut no more than .625 diameter and .001 or .002 less might be better!

3) How are you going to assure the die is cutting threads exactly 90 degree to bore, specially if you are going to force it to cut more than its designed diameter??? If you have used many threading dies there is NO guarantee it will center and run true on correct diameter(.625) more less a bigger diameter!

4) If you cannot afford to have it done properly then I am guessing you cannot afford a new barrel? Labor to install? Dr. bills from flying debris etc?????

5) What are you going to use to cut bore diameter? A rat tail file???

Yea, I guess this will come off as a smart assed answer but you asked, a well known gunsmith aka HateCa gave you advice and you blew him off with a smart assed comment and asked for other comments so...........HERE YA GO!!!!!!!!!!!

Have a super day and please post pics of finished product, hope it turns out but I will give you odds, let me know!!!

Respectfully,
Dennis
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Welllll......seeing as how you asked.....

1) As Randy stated you need a shoulder or some means to tighten it against!!! Chewing gum might not be permanent!

<span style="color: #FF0000">I guess you did not see the previous post to yours</span>

2) You are planning on using a hand held threading die to cut the additional diameter??? The die is made to cut no more than .625 diameter and .001 or .002 less might be better!

<span style="color: #CC0000">This is not true, this is from the website that I am going to rent the tool from:

5/8-24RH Die for 0.625" to 0.645" o.d. barrels</span>

3) How are you going to assure the die is cutting threads exactly 90 degree to bore, specially if you are going to force it to cut more than its designed diameter??? If you have used many threading dies there is NO guarantee it will center and run true on correct diameter(.625) more less a bigger diameter!

<span style="color: #FF0000">Ever hear of a TAT (Threading alignment tool)?</span>

4) If you cannot afford to have it done properly then I am guessing you cannot afford a new barrel? Labor to install? Dr. bills from flying debris etc?????

<span style="color: #FF0000">ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ</span>

5) What are you going to use to cut bore diameter? A rat tail file???

<span style="color: #FF0000">ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ</span>

Yea, I guess this will come off as a smart assed answer but you asked, a well known gunsmith aka HateCa gave you advice and you blew him off with a smart assed comment and asked for other comments so...........HERE YA GO!!!!!!!!!!!

<span style="color: #FF0000"> No need for that enough going on here</span>

Have a super day and please post pics of finished product, hope it turns out but I will give you odds, let me know!!!

Respectfully,
Dennis </div></div>
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

How much does this tooling cost you? I am sure there is someone who would help you do a proper job for less than the tooling is costing you?

I am not sure you will be able to hold the proper tolerances with a thread alignment tool and a die. If you think so go for it, but the typical muzzle brake you only want somewhere around .020" oversize to the bullet size, this doesn't leave much room for error on the runout. If you have slop in the thread job, you will need to compensate for this in the brake's bore diameter. A larger bore diameter will render the brake less effective. If you go ahead with this project, make sure you aren't shooting next to someone else when you test fire it. Also, I am not sure how you would make the proper barrel shoulder for the brake to time and torque against with the die?

Would be interested to see your results if you proceed.

DD
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

Its a freaking 308! Is there that much need to have a brake on the rifle? Crown it and shoot it. Save till you can get it threaded properly, and save yourself or others from possible injury.
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

My mistake, yer right I was typing while you were correcting your flawless logic.

Should have known you were more interested in an attaboy then advice! You should have stated from the get go that you wanted to be right and not made aware of flaws in your very limited information and logic(remember you asked for advice so you must have felt less smart in your first post than you are now).

Would ask from now on that you make us of lesser knowledge aware of your intent and expertise prior to your questions! You asked for and received advise/comments and Randy responded, then you make every effort to be right thereafter with attitude. Some people feel good about themselves when they can be an unappreciative dick on the net. Won't bother you again!!!!
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

Kudos on the restraint HateCA!

+1 SDWhirlwind
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jr_V</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its a freaking 308! Is there that much need to have a brake on the rifle? Crown it and shoot it. Save till you can get it threaded properly, and save yourself or others from possible injury. </div></div>

I agree with you, I do a lot of bench shooting and it takes a few seconds to re-acquire the target and was hoping to eliminate the issue... Thanks for not being a dick.....
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My mistake, yer right I was typing while you were correcting your flawless logic.

Should have known you were more interested in an attaboy then advice! You should have stated from the get go that you wanted to be right and not made aware of flaws in your very limited information and logic(remember you asked for advice so you must have felt less smart in your first post than you are now).

Would ask from now on that you make us of lesser knowledge aware of your intent and expertise prior to your questions! You asked for and received advise/comments and Randy responded, then you make every effort to be right thereafter with attitude. Some people feel good about themselves when they can be an unappreciative dick on the net. Won't bother you again!!!! </div></div>

1) advise and stupid comments are 2 separate things... I am not talking about Randy either dick (as you put it).

2) the only thing I left out was that there is a jam nut with the brake... Do you know what a jam nut is?

3) Please do us all a favor and go troll elsewhere....
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

just about all the projects that i post here are with the intention of getting others inspired to try things themselves. i am all for the shade tree smith making the best of what they have available. after reading your posts in this thread, this very well may be the first time i have suggested someone take it to a person that has the proper tooling and knowledge to do it right.

using a threading die for muzzle threads may be good enough for an open ended flash hider on a spray and pray type rifle but it is not the correct tool to thread the barrel of a precision rifle with a small clearance muzzle brake.
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">just about all the projects that i post here are with the intention of getting others inspired to try things themselves. i am all for the shade tree smith making the best of what they have available. after reading your posts in this thread, this very well may be the first time i have suggested someone take it to a person that has the proper tooling and knowledge to do it right.

using a threading die for muzzle threads may be good enough for an open ended flash hider on a spray and pray type rifle but it is not the correct tool to thread the barrel of a precision rifle with a small clearance muzzle brake. </div></div>

I appreciate your concern, but out of all of the posts here not one answered my question, and that question is for a RH 5/8 X 24 brake which is the appropriate die to use RH or LH? That is it, nothing else, I am very confidante that I can do it myself, I do not need to take it to a smith. If I blow up my barrel then it is my problem.....

So if someone can answer this simple question, it would be greatly appreciated.....
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308saiga</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">just about all the projects that i post here are with the intention of getting others inspired to try things themselves. i am all for the shade tree smith making the best of what they have available. after reading your posts in this thread, this very well may be the first time i have suggested someone take it to a person that has the proper tooling and knowledge to do it right.

using a threading die for muzzle threads may be good enough for an open ended flash hider on a spray and pray type rifle but it is not the correct tool to thread the barrel of a precision rifle with a small clearance muzzle brake. </div></div>



I appreciate your concern, but out of all of the posts here not one answered my question, and that question is for a RH 5/8 X 24 brake which is the appropriate die to use RH or LH? That is it, nothing else, I am very confidante that I can do it myself, I do not need to take it to a smith. If I blow up my barrel then it is my problem.....

So if someone can answer this simple question, it would be greatly appreciated.....

</div></div>

a right hand die creates a right hand thread.
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308saiga</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I appreciate your concern, but out of all of the posts here not one answered my question, and that question is for a RH 5/8 X 24 brake which is the appropriate die to use RH or LH? So if someone can answer this simple question, it would be greatly appreciated..... </div></div>
RH die nut is the answer your looking for.

Righty tighty, lefty loosey. You will never obtain a proper fit using a die nut, not to mention maintaining perpendicular threads to the muzzle / bore.

It's your rifle so do with it as you please but, I would single point the threads and all other cuts being made but, hey, that’s just me. I'm strange that way. Good luck to you.
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AKA-Spook</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a joke, right? </div></div>

I saw a muzzle threaded with a die nut once for a muzzle brake with the brake installed. It looked just like you think it would
wink.gif
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

Like previously stated.....threads for a brake absolutely need to be cut concentric to the bore and the only way to achieve that is on a lathe. It sounds like you dont want listen to some great advice from some very knowledgeable folks here.

You seem determined to do it your way, sooooooooooo to be differrent go with a LH 5/8x24 brake and LH threader as you call it.

Let us know how it turns out.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's your rifle so do with it as you please but, <span style="font-weight: bold">I would single point the threads and all other cuts being made</span> but, hey, that’s just me. I'm strange that way. Good luck to you. </div></div>
William, you might want to consider abandoning your way and go with the threader thingy. Think of the time you would save and you could probably train a monkey to do it freeing up your valuable time.
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

Gordo, I'm way ahead of you. I already have a die grinder and a thread file. I'm not affraid to use either
wink.gif
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308saiga</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

and that question is for a <span style="font-weight: bold"> RH 5/8 X 24 </span>brake which is the appropriate die to use<span style="font-weight: bold"> RH or LH</span>? That is it, nothing else, I am very confidante that I can do it myself <span style="font-weight: bold">if you have to ask this it makes me go hmmmm... </span> , I do not need to take it to a smith.

So if someone can answer this simple question, it would be greatly appreciated.....

</div></div>

I have a sick sense of humor so perhaps that is why the above seemed contridictory and a bit amusing..being "confidante" or 'confident' is always a plus! Sure you won't have any trouble and everything will work out juuuusssstttt fine!!!
smile.gif


Again I apologize for what I find amusing. I sincerely mean it when I say Good Luck.
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

Totally agree with SDWhirlwind. If you don't do it right you'll end up skipping bullets against your brake at best....at worst...use your imagination. All the after market brake accessories out there make it look like it's a no brainer to put a brake on a rifle. It still requires accurate threads and quality work.
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gordo, I'm way ahead of you. I already have a die grinder and a thread file. I'm not affraid to use either
wink.gif
</div></div>

i know a guy in the off-road world that is extremely clever and comes up with some really innovative ideas. he has a primitive way of going about it though. i once watched him shorten an axle shaft and then cut the new splines with a cut-off wheel on a grinder.
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gordo, I'm way ahead of you. I already have a die grinder and a thread file. I'm not affraid to use either
wink.gif
</div></div>

i know a guy in the off-road world that is extremely clever and comes up with some really innovative ideas. he has a primitive way of going about it though. i once watched him shorten an axle shaft and then cut the new splines with a cut-off wheel on a grinder. </div></div>

That was all about determination.
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gordo, I'm way ahead of you. I already have a die grinder and a thread file. I'm not affraid to use either
wink.gif
</div></div>

i know a guy in the off-road world that is extremely clever and comes up with some really innovative ideas. he has a primitive way of going about it though. i once watched him shorten an axle shaft and then cut the new splines with a cut-off wheel on a grinder. </div></div>

OH DAMN!!!
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

Interesting thread. Sounds like your trying to do the same type of brake you would see on a HK91, FAL or such military style rifle. I have a brake with a jam nut on one of my AR's. Really nothing wrong with the idea just the application of the threading. Back in the distant past I have done this very same thing, although it was on an AR barrel and I had a lot of clearance in the bore of the brake. Probably wasn't that effective. Personally instead of renting the tools I would try to find a local smith to thread the barrel.
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SANDRAT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It sounds like you are trying to turn a Sporter into a "Tactical" Rifle? Correct me if I'm wrong. </div></div>

You are wrong because if I where I would single point the threads.
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

sometimes all you can do is shake your head and say wow

Trust me , have a smith thread the barrel , trying to do it with a nut is going to leave your with poor results , their break will mostly likely not even fit the threads tight let alone not being strait. Another thing you run the risk of doing is stressing the bore at the muzzle with excessive pressure , heat , stress from the die nut , this will have very very bad effects on accuracy

here is what a properly threaded muzzle looks like
http://www.shortactioncustoms.com/Services.html

you can not get anywhere close to that sort of fit and finish with a diet nut I don't care who makes it or who is doing the job.
send that thing with the break off to a smith and let them do it right , it'll be the best $100 you every wasted
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308saiga</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are wrong because if I where I would single point the threads. </div></div>

Why not single point these??
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

Its stupid shit like this that gets people maimed, all because they thought they were saving a buck or thought they were smart enough to work on a gun.
Take the advice kid, let a professional do the work or leave it like it is
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

PFFFFT, this operator knows quality when he sees it ... just look at the guns in his signature and how CAA fucked they are.
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gordo, I'm way ahead of you. I already have a die grinder and a thread file. I'm not affraid to use either
wink.gif
</div></div>

i know a guy in the off-road world that is extremely clever and comes up with some really innovative ideas. he has a primitive way of going about it though. i once watched him shorten an axle shaft and then cut the new splines with a cut-off wheel on a grinder. </div></div>

OH DAMN!!! </div></div>

he also cut and welded together the main gear from two different types of transfer cases to create a lower gear ration for me. he used a dti when he welded them together. he'd strategically weld a certain section at a time using the heat of the weld to shrink and pull it the direction he needed to get it running true. i thought for sure there would be at a minimum some serious gear whine. that thing worked for years (as long as i had it) and was as quiet as any factory gear.

he'd use some serious cave man mechanics that i would normally shake my head at. it worked though and i think he was the exception to the rule when it came to that type of work.
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

To the OP,

Make sure to post back when you blow shards of metal all over the people shooting next to you.

Josh
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pinzmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting thread. Sounds like your trying to do the same type of brake you would see on a HK91, FAL or such military style rifle. I have a brake with a jam nut on one of my AR's. Really nothing wrong with the idea just the application of the threading. Back in the distant past I have done this very same thing, although it was on an AR barrel and I had a lot of clearance in the bore of the brake. Probably wasn't that effective. Personally instead of renting the tools I would try to find a local smith to thread the barrel. </div></div>

Basically yes, my intent is to drill out (not too much) the bore of the brake to be absolutely sure that I have the clearance.

I have done this is the past with my SKS, I used a mini 30 cal brake, cut it down to fit my muzzle, took a drill bit to fit the bore of the SKS then used the next size up drill bit and bored out the brake for clearance, worked great with absolutely no muzzle climb.

Unfortunately people will be animals, for those who had constructive criticism I thank you for you concerns, I realize that you do not want to see anyone hurt...
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PFFFFT, this operator knows quality when he sees it ... just look at the guns in his signature and how CAA fucked they are. </div></div>

You have no idea what you are looking at... I'll take that top gun against any semi-auto you have.....
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308saiga</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PFFFFT, this operator knows quality when he sees it ... just look at the guns in his signature and how CAA fucked they are. </div></div>

You have no idea what you are looking at... I'll take that top gun against and semi-auto you have..... </div></div>

LOL , you obviously don't trust your life or the lives of others on your weapons
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

There are shade tree mechanics and "____" gunsmiths

Fill in the blank
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308saiga</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have no idea what you are looking at... I'll take that top gun against any semi-auto you have..... </div></div>

HAAAAA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
laugh.gif
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308saiga</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

You have no idea what you are looking at... I'll take that top gun against any semi-auto you have..... </div></div>

What exactly ARE we looking at? and what about it is so much better than the rest?

BTW I see it doesn't have a brake, why haven't you tried one on it?
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

plus one for single pointing or leaving it alone.
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

I paid to have my break put on. 25 for the break itself and 70 to have the barrel threaded. I could not of done a better job. You can see the shoulder below.

95 bucks was not worth my eyes, or someone elses.
barrel012.jpg

barrel011.jpg
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308saiga</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PFFFFT, this operator knows quality when he sees it ... just look at the guns in his signature and how CAA fucked they are. </div></div>

You have no idea what you are looking at... I'll take that top gun against any semi-auto you have..... </div></div>

Pretty Bold Statement,are you talking accuracy ? Or just blasting away ? Lot of guys on here,myself included,have some pretty damned accurate semi-auto's.
 
Re: Threading for a muzzle brake on my bolt action

I think this may be my first post here but after reading this thread, I had to post.

I am going to sell my lathe now and buy some threader thingy's.

Another option to fit that brake may be to drill it out to 5/8 where the threads were, wiggle the drill a bit to make it tapered, bang it onto the tapered end of the barrel carefully with a hammer and tack weld it to the barrel in a few spots.
smirk.gif
 
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