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Three Strikes laws Just?

Phil1

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 3, 2009
465
7
Minot N.D.
latimes.com
After 17 years, three-strikes law is still hotly debated
Supporters of the tough sentencing rules say the law applies to a lifetime of crime, while opponents say tough punishments often are out of proportion to the underlying crimes.

By Jack Leonard, Times Staff Writer
September 5, 2011

Scott Andrew Hove tucked a spool of welding wire and work gloves inside his waistband and headed for the Home Depot store's exit without paying.

As he made his way out of the Lake Elsinore store, employees stopped Hove and found the stolen merchandise hidden under his sweat shirt.

"I was stupid," the certified welder told them.

The items were worth only $20.94. But the theft cost Hove, 45, a life prison sentence recently, when a Riverside County judge ordered him to spend 29 years to life behind bars under California's three-strikes law.

His sentence points to the legal debate that continues to rage 17 years after voters approved the law: whether its tough sentences sometimes far exceed the crimes. Unlike other three-strikes laws across the country, California treats any felony as a third strike — even a nonviolent offense such as petty theft or drug possession — as long as an offender's criminal history includes at least two violent or serious crimes, such as rape, robbery or residential burglary.

Riverside County prosecutors argued that Hove — who has a long history of drugs and thefts, including convictions for residential burglary — had proved himself "an incurable recidivist." Court records show he managed to avoid the full weight of the three-strikes law at least four times before his latest theft. Among his offenses was a 1996 crash in which he severely injured someone while driving under the influence of methamphetamine.

"He's your prototypical poster child for three strikes," said Riverside County Chief Deputy Dist. Atty. Guy Pittman. "How many times does society have to be victimized before we decide to put someone away?"

Hove's attorney, Deputy Public Defender Jeff Zimel, agreed that his client deserved some time behind bars but argued in court that a sentence of 13 years in prison would be more appropriate. He said that a life sentence was "excessive, outrageous and contrary to the spirit of the three-strikes law."

Voters overwhelmingly approved the three-strikes law in 1994 amid heightened public anxiety over crime. Supporters say three strikes punishes offenders for what is often a lifetime of crime. The law, which imposes sentences of at least 25 years to life for a third strike, has put thousands of violent criminals behind bars for long stretches.

But it has also produced cases where critics say the punishment was far out of proportion with the crime. Thousands of offenders have been sentenced under the law for third strikes that involve drugs or thefts. Among them was a drug addict whose third strike involved shoplifting nine videotapes to sell for heroin.

Today, most prosecutors are more selective about when they choose to use the law's full force, but Hove's sentence illustrates that punishments still can vary from county to county.

In L.A. County, prosecutors follow a written policy that generally seeks potential life terms only when an offender's most recent crime is violent or serious. By contrast, the Riverside County district attorney's office examines cases individually. For Hove, the office was once willing to seek reduced sentences but has since run out of patience as his rap sheet has grown longer.

"This guy has received a lot of grace," said Jennifer E. Walsh, a political science professor at Azusa Pacific University and an expert on three strikes. "We might be looking at more cases like this down the line."

Hove's case offers a look at the controversial choices that judges and prosecutors make when deciding how to the apply the law.

Hove grew up in Orange County, the youngest of four children. His father, an imposing figure who weighed more than 300 pounds, abused him physically and verbally, his family said in court records. At one point, the elder Hove choked his 16-year-old son until the boy turned blue, Hove's mother said.

At school, Hove was diagnosed with a learning disability and took medication for attention deficit-hyperactivity disorder. He showed signs of impulsivity and repeatedly ran into trouble. He was prescribed Ritalin until he was about 12. His mother said she believed her son began using drugs when he came off the medication.

School authorities suspended the young Hove several times for fighting, rule-breaking and drug possession. His first arrest occurred at 13, when he was sent to juvenile hall for shoplifting, drug use and stealing car parts and bicycles, according to a defense psychologist's report.

Hove told authorities that his addictions to drugs, including crack cocaine and methamphetamine, fueled his thefts. "I'm not a bad person," he told a probation officer earlier this year. "I have a drug problem."

In 1991, Hove broke into an office and rooms at a Santa Ana hotel where he had been living. He took VCRs, an answering machine, a radio and other items. He pleaded guilty to three counts of residential burglary and was sentenced to five years in prison.

Once the three-strikes law took effect, each of Hove's residential burglary convictions counted as a "strike." He now ran the risk of a possible life sentence if he committed another felony.

But Hove's crimes continued.

In May 1996, Hove was driving on the wrong side of the road in Chino Hills when he struck a 65-year-old man carrying his grandson, according to an appellate court opinion. The boy was thrown to safety but the crash left his grandfather in a vegetative state, the appeals court said.

Hove tested positive for methamphetamine. He pleaded guilty in San Bernardino County to driving under the influence of a controlled substance and was sentenced to four years in prison.

Hove avoided another potential life sentence in 2001 when he pleaded guilty to possessing marijuana for sale in Riverside County. In 2004, Riverside County prosecutors sought another reduced sentence when he was again charged with possessing drugs for sale.

But when Hove returned to court in 2008 charged with drug possession, Riverside County prosecutors decided he deserved a three-strikes sentence, said Pittman, the chief deputy district attorney. A judge, however, disagreed. Hove was sentenced to two years in prison. He was on parole for that offense when he walked into the Lake Elsinore Home Depot in November 2009.

Armed with Hove's long criminal record, prosecutors argued that Hove was a career criminal incapable of reforming.

"The defendant has already had enough 'breaks,' " Deputy Dist. Atty. Natalia Matusik wrote in court papers.

A defense psychologist recommended an intense residential drug treatment program rather than prison. He concluded that Hove's crimes were directly connected to his drug abuse and that Hove used drugs to deal with his untreated mental health problems.

On Aug. 19, Riverside County Superior Court Judge Albert J. Wojcik rejected Hove's final plea for leniency at his sentencing.

Hove's mother, Nondus Hove, said she has been dismayed by her son's frequent legal troubles but believes his sentence is a miscarriage of justice.

"To strike someone out for something like that, it's ridiculous," she said.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-home-depot-theft-20110905,0,861207.story
 
Re: Three Strikes laws Just?

I'm sorry, he already avoided getting hit with it at least four times prior to this occurrence and someone is crying about it? Give me a fucking break. The law has been in place for a long time, every turd in CA is well aware of it. If they choose to push the envelope they shouldn't be whining when they get bit in the ass. Don't want to do life in prison? Stop committing crime. Seems pretty simple.
 
Re: Three Strikes laws Just?

"Riverside County prosecutors argued that Hove — who has a long history of drugs and thefts, including convictions for residential burglary — had proved himself "an incurable recidivist.""

Be a career criminal, pay the price.
 
Re: Three Strikes laws Just?

3rd strike should be under the felony BARRK rule to count, IMHO.

Burglary, Arson, Rape, Robbery, Kidnapping


Costs a lot of money to feed that guy, make him pay restitution and be done with it.

However, you catch him burglarizing a home - Buh-Bye.
 
Re: Three Strikes laws Just?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DustyJacket</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Riverside County prosecutors argued that Hove — who has a long history of drugs and thefts, including convictions for residential burglary — had proved himself "an incurable recidivist.""

Be a career criminal, pay the price. </div></div>

That's exactly what I think. What about all the crimes he got away with.
 
Re: Three Strikes laws Just?

First, change the way prisons are ran. Make them work for their food there. Dig some ditches, pick trash, make them do something! If prison wasn't so "nice" they wouldn't want to come back. Plus if you make them work it gives them a "workers mentality" so when they get out they know they need to work. If you are a lifetime fuck up then put them down. There are some crimes it should be automatic death sentence in 2 weeks. This asshole in the article was stealing plain and simple. He didn't forget, he stole! I watched a documentary on Russian prison and no American would want that shithole!!!!
 
Re: Three Strikes laws Just?

He probably touched the hot stove after his mother told him not.

As Ron White says, "You can't fix stupid."
 
Re: Three Strikes laws Just?

So let me see if I comprehended that unbelievably long article: In essence, it was more like his 13th strike right?

Christ what a waste of ink...Fucking California.

On another note, I didn't realize they were screwing kids up with Ritalin that long ago. Guess it's another example of California leading the way in half assed social experiments on its citizenry so that other states may follow in the wake of their arrogant incompetence.
 
Re: Three Strikes laws Just?

Fawk all thieves. Let them rot all in one cell. Use a trash compacter to get them to fit.

Or


Shoot them and bill the parents for the bullet.
 
Re: Three Strikes laws Just?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DonniePD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First, change the way prisons are ran. Make them work for their food there. Dig some ditches, pick trash, make them do something! If prison wasn't so "nice" they wouldn't want to come back. Plus if you make them work it gives them a "workers mentality" so when they get out they know they need to work. If you are a lifetime fuck up then put them down. There are some crimes it should be automatic death sentence in 2 weeks. This asshole in the article was stealing plain and simple. He didn't forget, he stole! I watched a documentary on Russian prison and no American would want that shithole!!!!</div></div>

I agree, most young people think that jail or prison is a place to go to get street rap. This guy has the right idea.
 
Re: Three Strikes laws Just?

But then again in three strikes doesn't necessarily mean 'out". Remember the three strikes pizza thief? Got Life? more like three years!

"
'Pizza thief' walks the line

He quietly got a new chance after the three-strikes law sent him to prison for 25 to life. Now, any mistake could send him back.
February 10, 2010|Jack Leonard...

On Jan. 28, 1997, Williams returned to the courtroom of Superior Court Judge Donald F. Pitts. Also returning was Gravlin, the veteran prosecutor, who objected to changing the sentence.

Standing before the judge, Gravlin unfurled a computer printout of Williams' criminal history that extended from his outstretched arm to the floor.

"He has not learned," Gravlin told the court. "He has not repented."

But the judge ruled that reducing the punishment was in the interest of justice. Williams would be out in less than three more years.

In October 1999, Williams walked out of a state prison in Soledad. He moved in with a sister in Lynwood, "

http://articles.latimes.com/print/2010/feb/10/local/la-me-pizzathief10-2010feb10
 
Re: Three Strikes laws Just?

I just sat on a jury for a voluntary manslaughter/employing a firearm in the commission of a dangerous felony case where we found the defendant guilty. Interesting process that I hope I don't have to sit though again. After we delivered the court room and went back to the jury room the judge paid us a visit to ask us about how our experience was, what were our deciding factors and told us about this guys rap sheet. Judge said his vote was guilty as well. Turns out that prior to killing someone, he racked up an impressive 9 felony convictions before he reached 30 years old. 3 strikes could possibley have kept his victim from getting killed. Victim was no angel either since this was a cocaine deal gone bad, but why should someone like this be walking around amongst law abiding citizens.
 
Re: Three Strikes laws Just?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hove's mother, Nondus Hove, said she has been dismayed by her son's frequent legal troubles but believes his sentence is a miscarriage of justice.

"To strike someone out for something like that, it's ridiculous," she said.</div></div>It would be much better if they waited until he was hopped up on meth and crippled or killed another person. That way he might at least get a little respect in the prison showers....
 
Re: Three Strikes laws Just?

Fuck this guy. If he can't afford welding wire fir $20, he can't afford a restitution fine either. California is full of stupid.
 
Re: Three Strikes laws Just?

Having worked in law enforcement for the past 15 years, I can honestly say there is nothing "just" about the justice system. The scales of justice always tip in favor of those with the most money. If you have it you can get out of anything, or at least a very mild slap on the wrist. Can't afford an attorney? Don't know someone within the system? Be prepared to have the book thrown at you. I quit working narcotics cause I got tired or watching the same assholes get off when they should have been doing serious time under the habitual offender laws.
 
Re: Three Strikes laws Just?

we get a lot of turds here in Arizona that are fleeing california after their 2nd strike because they don't want to get their third.
 
Re: Three Strikes laws Just?

The problem with our justice system is it's too small, almost every state needs to start building more and more prisons, when nobody is getting probation then we have enough. This dipshit knew what would happen to him if caught, my 14 year old knows stealing is wrong, he's 45 and still doesn't understand that, he can rott and die in there.
 
Re: Three Strikes laws Just?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The problem with our justice system is it's too small, almost every state needs to start building more and more prisons, when nobody is getting probation then we have enough. This dipshit knew what would happen to him if caught, my 14 year old knows stealing is wrong, he's 45 and still doesn't understand that, he can rott and die in there. </div></div>

I think the problem is that the punishment isn't strong enough thus the fear of punishment isn't a deterrent. If the punishments were a deterrent we wouldn't need half the prisons we currently have, much less need more.
 
Re: Three Strikes laws Just?

Remember when it was " an eye for an eye and a tooth for tooth ". Make it like that again and we will see a drop in crime.
 
Re: Three Strikes laws Just?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I think the problem is that the punishment isn't strong enough thus the fear of punishment isn't a deterrent. If the punishments were a deterrent we wouldn't need half the prisons we currently have, much less need more. </div></div>

My father was a 30-year Navy man. He once told me his "Sailor Principle": A sailor will do anything he feels he can get away with, as long as the consequences make it worthwhile.I think that is what is happening in America today.

Perhaps if jails were run more along the lines of Sheriff Arpaio's, and sentences were not regularly shortened there might be fewer recidivists.
 
Re: Three Strikes laws Just?

the bad thig is these are only the events where he was caught. In all probability he has more than left his mark on humanity.....

not in a good manner
 
Re: Three Strikes laws Just?

WHY did "Three Strikes" legislation have to be passed in the FIRST place? Reason: The courts were NOT doing the job they were supposed to do. So, society pressured their elected representatives to enact laws that actually PUNISHED criminals. Seems simple and justified to me.
 
Re: Three Strikes laws Just?

Surely when he struck the old guy and sent him into a vegetativecstate, that should have been life?
 
Re: Three Strikes laws Just?

I have no problems with the 3 strikes laws. By the 2nd time, they should have "gotten it."
 
Re: Three Strikes laws Just?

Yes, it is just. The problem is the first two strikes! IF they would have gotten enough time to get their attention, the third strike wouldn't have happend. I disagree with one poster, while his heart is in the right place, making these scum work- in other words-getting out of their cells, is a luxury. For the first 5 years they should be confined to their cell for 23 of 24hours/day. They would rather be digging ditches than sitting in their cells. No weight rooms, tennis courts etc. After 5 years, if they haven't caused any problems, maybe they could be used for labor within the prison, growing food kitchen, cleaning etc. No TV(cable), computers, etc. Prison should be a form of punishment, the attempt (at billions of tax dollars over the years) to "rehab" the scum, is a large enough test sample-by and large it does not work. Mandatory sentences without parole for those committing crimes while on parole (second strike).