Just picked up a seekins havak in 308 and am measuring the C.O.A.L. I am using a 178 ELD-M and am touching the lands at 2.74". Most places I read are saying 2.8" is pretty much where things are supposed to be at. Just trying to figure out if my situation is normal because I don't want to start loading up stuff from the manuals when my bullet is seated deeper than it's supposed to be.
Tight chamber?
- Thread starter NurseMike87
- Start date
What are you measuring with? A Hornady Comparator?
Cuz if I take 10 measurements of the same chamber, I'llget maybe 0.005 variation.
Cuz if I take 10 measurements of the same chamber, I'llget maybe 0.005 variation.
Let’s just say your touching OAL is 2.74. You’re giving up nothing to some other guy who may be loading at 2.8. Just forget about that as an issue in and of itself. Take a few measurements where you’re happy with the consistency, pick a jump, and run with it.
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I'm using the hornady OAL gauge and then measuring with the comparator as well as using calipers from tip to tip. Oh and actually I need to make a correction from the original post. The 178 ELD-M were touching at 2.72" and 175 SMK were touching at 2.74"
I'm not really worried as much about giving up anything compared to those who can load longer, I am mostly just concerned with any issues related to over-pressure because I am going off of load manuals tailored to a slightly longer load. I am mostly used to loading longer than what the manuals say, so now I'm just not sure how fast my pressures will spike by going a bit shorter.
Thats why the recommendation is to start low and work your way up.
And are you sure that you are into the lands at your current numbers and not just runbbing the side wall of the freebore due to runout etc? If you do seat one long at 2.8, do you get lands imprints on the bullet? Coloring it in sharpie will help you see where its making contact.
And I like this method more than the hornady oal gauge. Lets the rifle chamber tell you when its touching instead of your soft squishy inconsistent finger tips pushing on a rod
Those are related issues. If you’re doing a normal load work up and not just picking the charge you want to run with, any potential difference would be lost in the noise or nonexistent.
That is why you start low and work your way up to figure out where you start seeing signs of pressure. You should be doing the same thing when you load longer then manual values also.
What do you mean, I am 99.99% sure he is using a micrometer seating die. U just dial it down 1 thou and run it into the die. He probably did this ahead of time so that he knew what value to start at for the video.
Edit: Keep in mind you may want to use a fresh bullet. Not only because you will get bullet to bullet variation but also because you are putting repeated pressure on the contact surface with the lands and the seating die is repeatedly contacting the same spot on the bullet. So you are deforming the bullet slightly each time you force it into the lands or push it into the die, especially if the seating stem isn't a good match for the bullet profile.
I've got micrometer dies, both micrometer chamber dies and standard RCBS type micrometer dies. . That's REAL quick, even for mic dies.
Micrometer top for the seating die? If your current die doesnt have one most brands will offer a replacement/retro fit.
Whats a chamber die? And what do you mean the "standard" rcbs micrometer dies?
(I assume by chamber dies you are referring to your wilson inline seater die.)
And that the standard rcbs is either their standard seater with a micrometer retrofit or you have their competition line which isnt a standard die.
In any case, thats how long it takes me to adjust my micrometer. You just have to spin it how much you want, set it down and pull the press handle. Nothing earth shattering.
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Standard die is the one in which the micromeer you pictured above is threaded into.
Micr chamber-type seating die:
Is all I use for precision rifle. Gets concentricity and OAL right all the time.
So a "standard rcbs seater with a micrometer retrofit" then if you have a micrometer and its not their competition line seater.
To avoid other future confusion those wilson style dies used on an arbor press are called inline dies (EDIT: By everyone else in the world other than the example of one).
I guess if you get a blank and use your chamber reamer you would sort of have a"chamber" die but the common term is inline.
Now back to the regularly scheduled programming.
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No die gets OAL correct all the time. They are only as accurate as the bullets are uniform. Variations occur in all bullets. Base, meplat and ogive.
Set them up on a dial indicator and it will drive you crazy.
Set them up on a dial indicator and it will drive you crazy.
Point being.... the vid STILL seems super fast, even to adjust a micrometer type die, when you are dialing 1/1000th. .
Understood.
The "inline dies" are better, in my experience, at "getting it right all the time.""... as much as variations in the actual bullet will allow. (Do I *seriously* have to note that bullets vary due to manufacturing tolerances ?)
NOT saying other high end match grade dies can never "get it right." I just like the "inline dies" better.
you guys just get yer twisted jollies arguing with everything I ever say.
Is gets old.
" Shirley, you have better things to do with your time."
Sir,
My post was not about you or arguing with you.
An incorrect and misleading statement was made and I pointed it out so someone would not purchase a die expecting perfection.
PS, they are missing you over at AR15.com.
My post was not about you or arguing with you.
An incorrect and misleading statement was made and I pointed it out so someone would not purchase a die expecting perfection.
PS, they are missing you over at AR15.com.
The manufactuer calls them "chamber type bullet seater dies with micrometer adjustment."
Their email is "support(at)lewilson(.) com so you can inform them of their error in naming their product.
Me? I don't really stress at all over what they are called.
I'll call them "inline dies" ***IF*** it'll help you. Just let me know....
So... me failing to note the obvious.... that bullets come with variations from the manufacturer.... = "posting stupid shit."
I also failed to note that water is wet.
Please.... forgive me.
For my money, posting the obvious = wasting time.
But, do what you want. As will I.
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It does not and cannot “get it right all the time”.
My experience indicates these does are a pain in the ass to use and are often less uniform than the Redding press mounted micrometer seating die.
Water is irrelevant to the conversation.
If you don't like "inline dies" that fine with me. Do whatcha want.
"Get it right" /= "get it perfect."
I never said perfection is possible. "Get it right" simply means "get it as good as possible, given manufacturing variances, which everyone already knows exist" You just love to argue. So you put words in my mouth (i.e. "perfection" ...which I *never* said ) to have a strawman to knock down / something to argue about.
You said:
The ONLY incorrect and misleading stmt here is you putting "perfection" into my mouth / sentence.
If ya hadn't, this mess wouldn't be necessary.
Stop doing that, and we can all move on.
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The manufactuer calls them "chamber type bullet seater dies with micrometer adjustment."
Their email is "support(at)lewilson(.) com so you can inform them of their error in naming their product.
Me? I don't really stress at all over what they are called.
Another thread bites the dust
Sure, one product line has the term chamber in it, you are absolutely right about that. Everyone refers to that overall style as inline though, thats all I was trying to say.
Taken from the wilson website banner. Only one of their options has the term chamber in its name. Other manufactures dont have that term at all.
I was just wanting to alert you to the fact that what you are saying could be confusing to many who do not get that intricate in their reloading processes. You may know what you meant... I would have not but I made a guess based on your post history and was just trying to make it clear what you were discussing for every other reader who might not keep up with the forum as much.
That said, no one actually cares so can we get this back on track since none of this inline seating talk/argument is germane to the topic at hand of why @NurseMike87 is noticing his depth issues.
This. And all will be well.
I actually had the builder for my 224 valkyrie recommend not getting a longer throat cut into the barrel as you will eventually shoot in a longer throat just in the regular course of firing the firearm
“Getting it right all the time “ means perfect to me.
I don’t achieve that but I strive for it.
That is the reason I communicate in numbers rather than broad, general and vague statements.
What is your TIR average measured at the ogive with inline seaters?
I don’t achieve that but I strive for it.
That is the reason I communicate in numbers rather than broad, general and vague statements.
What is your TIR average measured at the ogive with inline seaters?
Forgive my phrasing. Sorry for the confusion.
The inlines get me usually within 1-2 thou. Occasionally 3 thou of the desired distance to ogive.
They get me within a single thou on my Hornady concentricity gauge.
Lee / Hornady /RCBS all are as much as 5-7 thou out to ofive and 3-5 thou out on concentricity.
Im sure Whidden can do better.
But these inline "get it right" ... enuf for me.
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Those are excellent results. I get .002-.003 on TIR at ogive. The length varies depending on bullet and as you know the bullet is most of that.
My Wilson in line die experience was so much worse I have wondered if I had bad ones.
My Wilson in line die experience was so much worse I have wondered if I had bad ones.
Agreed. Bullet ogive dimension / profile WILL vary. And tip / meplat even more. Discovering measuring to ogive added 5 years to my life expectancy over measuring OAL.
My experience was so bad with Hornady / Lee / RCBS, I felt like I entered Nihrvana with the Wilson dies.
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